Search found 21 matches

by b.i.o
Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:04 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90985

Re: Dune D3: To Tame a Land

Hmm. That Dr Ug claim really makes no sense at all. He claimed anti-Fremen, and despite people's protestations to the contrary I think that the Fremen+Atreides are the closest thing we have to a town in this game.

Given that that claim makes no sense, is there any particular reason he might be lying? The only one I can think of is that he's very scummy scum. He doesn't want to claim town because that's dangerous (you can get counterclaimed easily), so he picks someone who won't want to counterclaim (because it's an eventual death sentence), but who the town is less likely to lynch than the other possible lynch targets. By claiming now rather than when forced to he lends some legitimacy to his claim.

So either Dr Ug did something stupid as Fenring, or he's someone we want lynched--probably the Baron Harkonnen.

I think the latter is more likely. Irulan can wait if we have a shot at getting the Baron.

unvote: AMT
vote: Dr Ug


*Ninja'd* While there's no explicit "town" alignment I think that the Fremen+Atreides are basically the town in this game regardless. And I think the rest of my points still stand.
by b.i.o
Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:28 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90985

Re: Dune D3: To Tame a Land

ameretrifle wrote:...

And I stand by my repeated (though apparently far too sarcastic) assertion that my being Irulan is OBVIOUS by now.

Sarcasm: I'm bad at it when I'm tired. :P
by b.i.o
Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:21 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90985

Re: Dune D3: To Tame a Land

AMT, there are a really limited supply of potential Corrino people you could be. There's Shaddam, who's dead. There's Irulan. There's Count Fenring, *maybe* Lady Fenring, and maybe a Sardaukar commander or something.

Of those, the only real choice for your claimed independent win condition is Irulan, since all of the day-flavor so far has been written from Irulan's perspective, and none of the others really would have any reason to try to predict what the flavor's going to be.

So I stand by my assertion that you're Irulan.
by b.i.o
Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:53 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90985

Re: Dune D3: To Tame a Land

ameretrifle wrote:Hey, "Mentat", a subtle clue you missed
I didn't miss it:
b.i.o wrote:Add all of that to today's flavor text and, well, it all fits very nicely together.
I just didn't mention specifics.

And Irulan may have been Bene Gesserit-trained, but she was hardly Bene Gesserit-aligned in the books. My guess as to your original alignment would have been Corrino/Independent, with the latter of those being replaced by the alignment of whoever you ended up marrying. I suppose you could have been Corrino/Bene Gesserit too (and switched to Harkonnen/Bene Gesserit or something once married to Feyd), but strictly from the book-flavor I find it less likely. In either case, you're at least one of Corrino or Harkonnen, which means my vote stays. (And I don't believe you're not Irulan, if that's what you're trying to claim--it's early and I'm tired and I can't really tell.)
by b.i.o
Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:34 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90985

Re: Dune D3: To Tame a Land

Hm. That's believable, especially given some of the hints NaR was dropping earlier. I'm not sure how I missed it the first time around, but this is a pretty blatant reference to Paul drinking the water of life and being prescient:
Not A Raptor wrote:Something happened and I wound up unable to speak for the rest of that day. :/ Must've been something in the water. Anyway, I think AMT's using a power right now. Or something. What's up, AMT?

(That is, it was blatant enough that I started off re-reading at the beginning of D2, saw that, and was fairly certain NaR was Paul before I ever read his claim at the end of the thread.)

And given that it was that blatant, I'm inclined to guess that I'm not the only one who noticed. And since AMT's read the first book, and this is a central plot element of the first book, and AMT's a very good mafia player and notices these things, I'm inclined to guess that her making NaR claim wasn't an accident. Add that to her rather cavalier attitude about dying and her possible motivations for having Paul revealed, and I'm inclined to believe that she's scum who can't communicate with her allies. Add all of that to today's flavor text and, well, it all fits very nicely together.

Prime projection: AMT is Irulan. Since she was married to Feyd, she's Harkonnen aligned, but (since she wasn't Harkonnen-aligned to start) she can't communicate with them.

vote: AMT
by b.i.o
Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:17 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90985

Re: Dune D2: I am Mauve'bib, the Kumkwat Haagendasz!

And the hammer:
vote: cycoden
by b.i.o
Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:03 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90985

Re: Dune D2: I am Mauve'bib, the Kumkwat Haagendasz!

I'll wait on the flavor to actually vote, but I see very few reasons not to vote for cycoden at this point.

Sorry for being so quiet today--my week's been very busy.
by b.i.o
Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:56 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90985

Re: Dune D2: I am Mauve'bib, the Kumkwat Haagendasz!

Silknor wrote:It's clear at the least that not all Harkonnens and Corrinos have the same win conditions, which makes a monolithic scum faction less likely in my view.

Yep.

Did I summarize your feelings on the subject correctly?

Pretty much.

And given the fact that Lataro was telling the truth thus far (and had a good reason, based on his role, to want Feyd-Rautha dead) I'm going to go ahead and say that cycoden's probably a good next lynch target. However, in the interest of not starting a bandwagon immediately, I'm going to hold off a bit on actually voting.
by b.i.o
Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:15 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90985

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Krong wrote:Let's call it, say, "the weirding way". :D

:D
by b.i.o
Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:55 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90985

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Oh, right, forgot to do this:
unvote
vote: Lataro


Although now that I think about it, there actually *is* one possible jesterbomb in this game: Duke Leto. Lataro irritates me enough that I think it's almost worth it anyway though.
by b.i.o
Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:09 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90985

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

greenlover wrote:I am honestly curious about what you mean by this. What is the big picture that most people would be missing? What is lost by examining individual separately that would be gained by not doing so? What alternative is there to examining each player individually? The reason I am asking all the newbie questions is because I tend to prefer doing a rundown of every player individually, instead of. . .well, I don't know. I have done a basic run down in most mafia games I have been in (on and off this forum), and this is the first I have heard of an alternative. So, naturally, I am curious.

I have a whole bunch of issues with the "look at every post made by everyone" style of analysis. Undoubtedly it works for some people, but in my experience it's much less effective than my own much less-structured strategy. The biggest is that when you look one player at a time, it's very easy to ignore the surrounding context of what people are posting, and one of the ways I identify scum is by looking for groups of people. It's much harder to do, but I find it's often MUCH more telling to look at what people haven't done than to look at what they have, and I find that that's much harder to do when you're looking one person at a time. Also, if you're saying everything you think about everyone, you give people a lot of information. (And some of those people are scum.) I very purposely don't voice every suspicion I have.

I actually don't even bother reading mass analysis posts most of the time. I don't like having my opinions prejudiced by others' opinions. Especially at this point in the game it's way too easy to make mistakes or to get away with posting anti-town misinformation when you're tossing that much text into a single post. I think this is much less of an issue when people make smaller, more focused posts.

There are a whole lot of alternatives, and how you place specifically really depends on who you are. The way I work early in a game is by skimming through everything that's happened a few times. I find that that gives me a feel for the way the game is "flowing" (there's really not a good word for this), and I can very often pick out suspicious patterns in that flow. This is largely a product of experience, and this is what works for me--it's not necessarily the right tool for everyone.

(I am not sure if this is the right place to put these questions; but this is where everyone has been directing me, so, yeah. Apologies in advance if this really should have gone somewhere else. :-( )

Here's probably the best place. While maybe not directly on topic, I think a limited amount of game theory discussion is usually fine.
by b.i.o
Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:17 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90985

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Not really sure what to say--so far this has been kind of a mess. BigNose is all over the place and completely incomprehensible. Lataro is being more useless than usual. I'd love to vote for both of them because it'd make this game a lot easier to read, but I don't really know if either's scum.

I'm going to go for DL:

vote: Dark Loink

His only substantial post is a summary of everything that everyone has done. I think that gigantic "here's what I think about everyone" posts are a really good way to pretend you're contributing something useful in the first place (I think they're nigh-useless for analysis--looking at everyone individually is a great way to miss the big picture of what's happening, and that's how I pick up on scum, especially early), and DL's post didn't even do that.
by b.i.o
Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:03 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90985

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

I'm going to do a read-through later today and post some actual analysis rather than just rolespec. My general opinion of what's happened so far *without* doing a reread (and keeping in mind that I've been very very stressed/tired since this game has started, since that affects how I've been viewing things) is that I'm not terribly convinced about any of the arguments against anyone right now. However, I also am not terribly suspicious of anyone. (That is, my scumdar (which would usually be doing quite a bit of pinging by this point) has been broken. Hopefully it'll fix itself soon so I can start being useful.)
by b.i.o
Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:58 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90985

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

BigNose wrote:If Mav had been so vocal, then why did the MOD include him in the list?

her

Also, is there any particular reason you always capitalize mod?
by b.i.o
Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:49 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90985

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Brooklynxman wrote:Correct me if I am mistaken but.....CHOAM shouldn't be a player.

CHOAM may not be a player, but they could be a secondary alignment of someone (although the only people I think that could credibly be CHOAM-aligned would be the Baron Harkonnen and the Emperor--I think that Duke Leto's more likely also Fremen-aligned from his character). But yeah, it's true that it doesn't make much sense for someone to be CHOAM-aligned from flavor.
by b.i.o
Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:48 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90985

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Hm. Upon reflection, it seems simplistic to me to be saying that one faction is allied with another or something in this game. While there are obvious places where factions overlap, I don't think any of the factions would end up being entirely allied. I think it's potentially more useful to talk in terms of potential win conditions. I haven't listed any 'Keep $important_person alive' conditions, because I think those apply too generally to be useful.

Atreides
-Kill everyone from House Harkonnen
-Control Arrakis
Fremen
-Control Arrakis
-Find Paul
-Kill everyone from House Harkonnen (or, possibly, just Raban)
Harkonnen
-Kill everyone from House Atreides (Duke Leto especially?)
-Control Arrakis
CHOAM
-Have someone non-Fremen in control of Arrakis
Corrino
-Have House Harkonnen or Corrino in control of Arrakis
Bene Gesserit
-Find the Kwisatz Haderach (I'm not terribly sure on this, actually. The Bene Gesserit want to find the Kwisatz Haderach, but they also want to control him, so...)
Spacing Guild
-Keep the spice flowing (so, basically the same as CHOAM I think)
Smugglers
-Stay alive? (again, not really sure, and not sure if they're a faction at all)

It seems to me that the 'control Arrakis' conditions are basically the equivalent of 'have a majority in the game'. I think that the Fremen's 'control Arrakis' and the Atreides 'control Arrakis' are likely to be *roughly* equivalent (that is, not necessarily mutually exclusive), because there was the beginnings of a loose alliance early on when the Atreides controlled Arrakis, and later on in the book most of the Atreides (excluding just Thufir Hawat) are more directly allied with the Fremen anyway.
by b.i.o
Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:22 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90985

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

My guess (from someone reasonably experienced with the flavor) is that there's no cult. Now, granted, I could be wrong (and I'm always wary of sticking my neck out by saying something like this), but I don't see any of the Paul-Atreides-era factions being very cult-like, and I know this flavor pretty damned well. (Now, if we wanted to go way far into the future the Honored Matres would almost *certainly* be a cult...but that's completely outside the scope of this game I'm pretty sure.)
by b.i.o
Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:42 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90985

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

(More actual analysis of what this data-dump *means* will come later...)
by b.i.o
Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:40 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90985

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

And here's a possible role-list. I may have missed one or two things, but I think this is likely to hit all of the possible main roles from the first book, at least. (Also, while I'm thinking of it, at least one of the movie adaptions of Dune is fairly accurate to the story (although it doesn't have all of the details, obviously), and that'll be a lot quicker than reading the book if you want to get *some* of the flavor. I can't remember which one it is, though...there've been several. Also, you should read the book.)

So that gives us these possible roles: (possible secondary alignments in parenthesis)

House Harkonen:
-Baron Harkonen (choam?)
-Piter (independent, dies early)
-Feyd-Rautha
-Raban

House Corrino
-Shaddam (choam?)
-Count Fenring
-Saurdaukar (?)
-Irulan (atreides)

House Atreides
-Leto Atreides (choam? dies too early to be fremen)
-Jessica (bene gesserit, fremen)
-Paul/Kwisatz Haderach (fremen)
-Duncan Idaho (fremen, but dies early)
-Gurney Halleck (fremen/smugglers)
-Yueh (independent, or I guess maybe harkonnen, dies early)
-Thufir Hawat (harkonnen, but not really)
-Alia (fremen; forgot her in my previous post. thank you wikipedia character list.)

Fremen
-Liet-Kynes (atreides)
-Chani (atreides)
-Stilgar (atreides)
-Otheym (atreides) (?)
-Generic Fedaykin (atreides) (?)
-Reverend Mother Ramallo (?)
-Shadout Mapes (atreides) (?)
-Harah (atreides) (?)

Bene Gesserit
-Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam (corrino)
-Lady Margot Fenring (corrino) (?)

Spacing Guild:
-Spacing Guild Representative (?)
-Spacing Guild Navigator

Smugglers:
-Esmar Tuek (atreides) (?)

That's 29 total, of which 3 are 'generic' non-named roles, and some (Leto/Kynes/Yueh/Piter) all die very soon from the flavor. The roles I think are less likely to exist are marked with a (?).
by b.i.o
Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:35 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90985

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

I'm basing this off of Mavketl's rolespec, since I'm too tired to think of other things right now...
Mavketl wrote:CHOAM - trade organisation, probably independent (they're not exactly evil but they can be total jack-asses)

Agree on independent, they probably don't have any specific characters, since all of the great houses/the emperor are part of CHOAM, and there are plenty of important characters to go around.

House Harkonnen - scumsters. Baron Vladimir Harkonnen ('godfather/don'), Piter de Vries (mentat - sort of a human computer but different), and likely another Harkonnen dude such as Feyd-Rautha.

Agreed on scum. The other possible addition here is Raban.

House Corrino / Empire - this house occupies the throne. Shaddam Corrino IV is the emperor. The Sardaukar are his (ruthless) soldiers. He has a bunch of daughters that might be included, Princess Irulan being the most important one.

Shaddam and any Sardaukar are likely to be scum (or at least scum-leaning). Princess Irulan is likely to be not scum-leaning (and is the only member of the house for which this is really the case). Count Fenring is the other possible addition here.

House Atreides - Leto Atreides (the duke - he might be dead, but from the flavour he seems to be there), Lady Jessica, Paul Atreides, Duncan Idaho (swordmaster), Gurney Halleck (musician/warrior), Dr. Yueh (he betrays them early in book one, though, so beware of Yueh - still not a bad guy), Thufir Hawat (mentat and assassin).

I'm inclined to believe Leto's dead. If Yueh's still alive, he's probably at the point where he's trying to assassinate the Baron.

Lady Jessica is Leto's loving partner, but also a part of the Bene Gesserit.

But she, importantly, leans Atreides. That is, given the choice, she will choose Atreides over Bene Gesserit (at least from the book).

Lastly, there's the Fremen.

Yep, and there are plenty of important Fremen that might be here, too. Kynes, if he hasn't died already (can't remember if he has from the flavor), Chani, and Stilgar are all characters I'd expect to see. Other possibles: Otheym, Reverend Mother Ramallo, Shadout Mapes, other fedaykin.

Definitely good: All Atreides except for Yueh. The Fremen.
Probably good: Bene Gesserit
Probably independent: CHOAM.
Could go either way, but probably bad: House Corrino
Definitely bad: Harkonnen

I'd say that the Bene Gesserit are more likely to be aligned (as an organization) with House Corrino given that we're in original Dune flavor. Jessica is not, but she's pretty much alone. The other major possible Bene Gesserit character is the Emperor's Truthsayer: Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam. And if there were to be a third, it'd probably be Lady Margot Fenring, who's also mostly Corrino-aligned.

There are two other possible factions: the smugglers, and the Spacing Guild. The smugglers are likely to lean good but not get alone well with the Fremen. The Spacing Guild is likely to be independent, I think.
by b.i.o
Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:37 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90985

Re: Dune Mafia: Pregame

Confirming.

Return to “Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!”