Search found 27 matches

by mpolo
Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:02 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!

Yay! Dune will survive!

Kind of depressing that Krong died on N1, nuking my other possible win, but since I had essentially no way to affect that condition, I'm not all that upset.
by mpolo
Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:22 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D2: I am Mauve'bib, the Kumkwat Haagendasz!

Sorry, Mav, I guess I was dead. Go my faction.
by mpolo
Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:16 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D2: I am Mauve'bib, the Kumkwat Haagendasz!

And I don't know if I can post about this. Am I dead or what?
by mpolo
Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:15 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D2: I am Mauve'bib, the Kumkwat Haagendasz!

Well, at the very least, I am going to put some pressure on cycoden. I've waited a day already.

Vote: cycoden
by mpolo
Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:11 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D2: I am Mauve'bib, the Kumkwat Haagendasz!

My reading is this: The first allegiance is "who you are". Paul Atreides would likely have "Atreides" here. Any Fremen would have "Fremen". Any member of the Imperial Household would have "Corrino" here. I think that the scum night-talk depends only on the first allegiance.

However, everyone also has a second win condition (if not officially secondary) that depends on the characters motivations. The Emporer had a pro-Harkonnen motivation, and will gain a win (despite dying), if the Harkonnens manage their condition. However, he wasn't "really" a Harkonnen, so the other members of the faction didn't know who he was.

There might be cases where a secondary faction gets a mason-like power as well, but we haven't seen evidence of this. As it stands, it seems like we could read the emperor's alignment as "Corrino member/Harkonnen supporter" and the Beast's as "Harkonnen member/Independent condition".

I could be totally wrong on this, but I don't think I am.
by mpolo
Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:11 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D2: I am Mauve'bib, the Kumkwat Haagendasz!

I think that Lataro's "take Feyd down with me" post got too many of the details as they have turned out right to have been just a clever ploy. I don't see any real likelihood that Rabban would have an investigation, so the rolenames he could pick out would be fellow scum. I suppose it's possible that cycoden is just a random non-Harkonnen character, but I am inclined to risk it at the moment. Unfortunately, cycoden says we have to wait two days for his input…
by mpolo
Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:59 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D2: I am Mauve'bib, the Kumkwat Haagendasz!

This is the "two allegiance" thing in action.

As I read it, Lataro gets one win if the Harkonnen achieve their goal, which I am assuming is a typical scum-like goal.
He gets a second win as an Independant. As he told us in his self-vote post, he wanted to assured that Feyd never became emperor, which I assume was his goal.

The Emperor had his first allegiance to himself, and will get a win if his faction completes their goal, but he also wins if the Harkonnens should complete their goal.

The Emperor is the ruler of basically everything, but the universe is parcelled out in a feudal system. The two Houses that are most involved in the story are Atreides and Harkonnen. As most of our protagonists are members of House Atreides, it is natural to think of them as "town-ish" and the Harkonnens (who are the big enemies of the Atreides) as "scum-ish".

In the book, the big question is who will marry the Princess Irulan to become the next Emperor -- as the title is hereditary, only goes to males, and there are no male heirs, the heir to the throne is automatically the husband of Shaddam's daughter, Irulan.

If Feyd should die, the Emperorship would likely fall on Duke Leto (Paul's father) or Paul himself.

Just because the Emperor was Harkonnen-allied doesn't mean that everyone else in his House has the same alliance. Everything is more complicated than just "town" and "scum", but I think that the vast majority of foll members of House Atreides and the Fremen are going to end up being what we would call "town", though they probably have slightly different goals, and the vast majority of full members of House Harkonnen (all, really) are going to end up being what we would call "scum".
by mpolo
Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:32 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D2: I am Mauve'bib, the Kumkwat Haagendasz!

I think that Harkonnen and Corrino are two completely different win conditions, which may go together for some characters but not for others. The emperor is concerned with keeping the spice flowing and perpetuating his line (and presumably staying alive himself -- he failed miserably here). In the book, he thought that his best chances for all this went with House Harkonnen, which is shown by his Harkonnen allegiance in the game.

The Harkonnens want to profit from the spice. (Although, how that works in-game has yet to be seen. As they seem to be the primary scum -- night kill -- I am guessing that they have to eliminate all "competing" factions, that is the Fremen and Atreides, possibly some others.) As we've seen, the secondary motivations of these characters can be played to the town's advantage. Also, the Harkonnens don't seem to be in contact with their "secondary" members/allies, otherwise, they wouldn't have killed the emperor so quickly, I presume.

Presumably, the Princess Irulan and the Reverend Mother Mohiam have completely different secondary conditions than Shadamm himself had, which are going to remove them from the typical "scum" definition.

The flavor would seem to suggest that the Fremen form the major "town" faction, but there are probably several wrinkles brought about by the secondary affiliations. The Fremen who stick out in my memory are Kynes (officially worked for the emperor as a planetologist, allied with Atreides later, then died -- might not even be around), Stilgar (almost certainly an Atreides ally) and Chani (some sort of lover condition with Paul, perhaps). There were also some house servants and the like.

These thoughts are a bit random -- I woke up with allergies and couldn't get back to sleep. But now my alarm is about to go off, so I'll leave it here.
by mpolo
Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:26 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D2: I am Mauve'bib, the Kumkwat Haagendasz!

So, I suspect that on killing cycoden, we will find him also Harkonnen/Independent, and infer that his goal was becoming emporer (i.e., he likely has one win). Lataro presumably has one loss, and one goal that might still turn out for him (the Harkonnen goal), but hopefully we can prevent that as well.
by mpolo
Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:32 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D2: I am Mauve'bib, the Kumkwat Haagendasz!

So, Lataro apparently missed out on his half-win that he was supposed to get by us killing Feyd before he could become emporer. However, I think we should honor his memory by getting rid of Feyd now. Even though this is caesarocide, I think that the nastiness for which Feyd is known is enough to warrant his death. I'll hold off on a vote for a little while to allow for discussion, but

Major FoS: cycoden
by mpolo
Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:01 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

From Wikipedia:

Harkonnen plots to send his nephew and heir Feyd Rautha as a replacement for his more brutish nephew Glossu Rabban — who is currently in charge of the planet — with the hope of gaining the respect of the now-troublesome Fremen.


Harkonnen hopes to eventually be able to challenge the emporer and become emporer himself. (And obviously Feyd wants to succeed him, or perhaps even get him out of the way to go straight to emporerhood…)
by mpolo
Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:36 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Wow. And I just thought he was being apathetic. I can't really claim a lot of merit for being early on this wagon, but I'm glad I stuck to it.

It wouldn't be bad to cop cycoden to verify Lataro's spiteful attack, but it all fits really nicely with the flavor.

Apologies if it is already twilight -- I just had a moment to check, and in case it isn't twilight, wanted to at least get a quick post in.
by mpolo
Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:24 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

PhoenixEnigma wrote:Right now, though, I'm seriously suspicious of mpolo. They've stated a win condition that I read, at best, as "not a threat to <town/good guys/etc> until end game" which is less than comforting. Throw in some major fluffy posts (like summarizing the game to date, without giving any actual thoughts on it) and defending what are currently the two scummiest players (based on votes), and I don't like what I see.


I think that what I actually said was that my second win condition is impossible to work on actively. I'll be more specific: I have to make sure that a certain character (and I don't know who might be playing that character and have no investigation or other way to identify that character) stays alive until the endgame. I find this to be essentially a "luck" win condition, at least from where I sit -- if I were lynched, I could still randomly pick up a "win" with it. As a result, I'm not going to be worrying too much about that condition. My other condition is a traditional "town" win condition, reworded for the Dune universe.

I thought that I gave some thoughts on the summary I posted. I was pretty sure that I did… [Goes back to check…] Um… I did actually comment on the summary in the very post you mention:

Spoiler:
First comments --

Really inactive players: turret, PhoenixEnigma

Relatively inactive players: Lataro, DarkLoink, Greenlover, b.i.o, weiyaoli, NotARaptor

"Active lurkers": myself (hopefully only until now), Brook (at least until his attack on F_C), ameretrifle, Dr Ug (on the cusp with "relatively inactive")

Several people have promised analysis: Mavketl, DarkLoink, myself. This is the first of these to materialize.

I would like to see BigNose start doing some real scum hunting.

Krong's suggestion that Silknor is not Atreides/Fremen, but probably not complete scum is fairly interesting. This also seems to mesh with Silknor's own statement -- he has a townish win condition, but no indication of being a majority.

F_C's gaffe with the Harkonnens and Fremen seemed totally innocent in the first post, but then he wanted to push it as a real possibility. Then he dropped it like a hot potato. It just felt like scum having been caught in a misstatement and trying to distance himself as quickly as possible. (Question: What is the right pronoun for Flying_Cookie?)

FoS: Flying_Cookie

I think that the various factions are all fairly small at present. There may be mechanisms for allying and such -- Paul and the Fremen, for instance. I also agree with F_C that some of the goals are probably less straightforward than "eliminate another faction(s)". The Fremen are probably only really concerned with Arrakis itself, that it not be exploited, etc. Where the Atreides seem to be interested in revenge against the Harkonnens and regaining control of the planet -- their views on spice are more compatible with the Fremen than the Harkonnen view, so they might be able to ally. The Emporer is mostly concerned about staying in power. BG and Guild are interested in the spice flow. Harkonnen probably want a monopoly on spice by eliminating all other factions (i.e. scum). But that's guessing from a very small amount of information that is in my power.


I think that I have been pretty active since then. (I admit that I was holding back a lot at the beginning…)

Off to class…
by mpolo
Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:34 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

I don't know. I read Dr Ug's statement as coming from flavor, not from inside knowledge of the game (though there is probably some inside knowledge involved, as he obviously belongs to some faction in the game).
by mpolo
Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:16 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

So we need to move on with Day 1 sooner or later, and I don't find a real pattern of scumminess anywhere. Let's look at the three vote leaders:

F_C's comment seems more innocent the farther away from it we come. (Though we have some inactivity on that side as well, which a negative reading would interpret as trying to let us forget about the little flavor slip.) More posting, please!

Lataro - I understand that he doesn't like large games. I understand that he is struggling with the flavor. And yet the only posts he has with content are the ones explaining why he isn't giving us any content. He's in deep lurk mode and at the same time trying to post often enough to not get lynched. This is what we tend to label as active lurking, and it can be a scumtell at times.

BigNose - My feelings here are more complicated. I have never had a game with BigNose where I felt really sure that he was town (except maybe Doctored, where he was lynched anyway and so we lost twenty dollars and my self respect by N1). There's always something that I find "off" in his posting. (I am gradually overcoming this tendency in Lataro, by the way.) He was pushing the start of direct scum-hunting, to move the game out of his flavor-blindness, but then didn't really participate in the first day or so. This is actually almost forgiveable: he is overwhelmed by flavor and pleads for more "normal mafia" type conversation so that he can more actively look for scumtells. He's being reasonably active now, although some of his analyses read "funny". I think that I would prefer to hold off for a day or so to see where his loyalties really lie. That is, I am currently not convinced of his scummitude, but still not 100% convinced of his townitude.

If I get some more time today (I have a lot of classes and the "St. Martin's procession" today, though), I'll take a look to see if there is someone else who is scummier than these three. For now, I'm going to go with:

Vote: Lataro

Reasons:
1) active lurking
2) his general disinterest in the game -- i.e. put him out of his misery

(The danger with 2 is that he might actually be someone important, but on the other hand, if he's not really playing, that is almost moot.)
by mpolo
Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:04 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Well, in defence of those who have implied having two win conditions, the first post says that everyone has two allegiances, and thus two win conditions. Are you trying to imply that you don't have two allegiance and two win conditions?
by mpolo
Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:35 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Mavketl wrote:
mpolo wrote:BigNose is flailing around a bit, but he doesn't really seem scummy to me. I tend to read him worse than he is (that is, I am always on the verge of lynching him for being scummy -- and then he's not), so I am tending to leave him in that "uncertain, tending positive" category.
It seems odd to discard scummy behavior because it's coming from a player "who's always acting scummy". Maybe they should stop doing that, then.

I'm not saying he's definitely scum (hence the distinct lack of voting for him right now), but he still needs to explain himself convincingly before I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. "I always act like I'm scum" would not be a convincing explanation in my opinion. :P


True. I'm not giving him a bye by any means, but the bar is a little higher there where I always read him in a scummy light. At present, he seems just paralyzed by the flavor, which is understandable, but makes it really difficult to judge him.

Lataro is very similar, actually. He doesn't feel able to post anything of content, and then just starts attacking, in this case, seemingly going for the low-hanging fruit. A groundswell of willingness to lynch in that direction is rising, and he just kind of rides the wave in. At least there wasn't a real bandwagon there yet, but it feels likely that there is one forming.
by mpolo
Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:28 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Yeah, I kind of took that line out of the "rumors" as fluff. I.e. Mavketl has exactly the same chance of being Jessica as everybody else: i.e. 5%. The question is whether any of the rumors are true, then.

BigNose is flailing around a bit, but he doesn't really seem scummy to me. I tend to read him worse than he is (that is, I am always on the verge of lynching him for being scummy -- and then he's not), so I am tending to leave him in that "uncertain, tending positive" category. Of course, lurkiness is not the only sign of scumminess (and is not infallible either), so I hope that BigNose will go farther with his analysis than just counting posts.

Someone said that the two win conditions were probably going to make it harder to see who is what, and I'm wondering if that's not true. Because I am not getting a real feel off of anybody. I am assuming that the Harkonnens have a fully scummy win condition, combined with some second condition, which may be different from one Harkonnen to the next -- those who are happy with the Emporer might want him to make it through alive, others may want to assassinate the Emporer to increase Harkonnen power. Or maybe one of them is trying to exterminate the Fremen before endgame, or some such.

But I really haven't seen any major signs of scummitude. F_C's little thing is nagging at me, but I am afraid that it was an honest mistake.

Above all we need more than the same 4 "noisy boys" to start posting. (As I noted, two of us in the "many postings" category have not produced all that much bulk of analysis up to now. I hope that I am improving on that count.)
by mpolo
Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:48 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

I have slogged through the four pages again. Here are my notes, organized by player:

Spoiler:
FIRST POST:
-----------
House Harkonnen wants to control CHOAM, secretly backed by the Padishah Emporer
Atreides have accepted fiefdom of Arrakis, anticipating treachery from Harkonnens
Atreides have been decimated and scattered after attack by the Emporer's troops
Harkonnens currently in control.
Fremen are resisting occupation, some Atreides are hidden among them.

DAY BEGIN POST:
---------------
Rumors - Duke Leto alive?
Fremen seeking alliance?
Makvetl is Lady Jessica?
Facts - de Vries the mentat reports to Baron Harkonnen
Duke's body and family are not recovered.
Atreides survivors in desert, being watched.
Ship departs from Kaitain with cargo (spice?).


Adacore:
1) Flavor challenged. Suggests 4-6 scum, a few indies. Additional win conditions will make interpreting player actions more difficult. Groups of aligned characters may be in conflict due to secondary win condition.
2) Raises specter of recruitment.
3) Probably one generic win condition and one specific.
4) Spec is there to help us scumhunt.
5) Admits being conservative in scumhunting at the moment. He wants to understand the setup (now convinced that he is a "good guy"). Pings from Makvetl, but they are very minor. Weiyaoli spoke about a possible cult in the way a cult leader would. What powers do the bad guys have?
6) If two wins are possible, then go for the pro-town win.

Lataro:
1) Flavor challenged.
2) Vote for Makvetl (out of the blue). There seem to be a lot of factions.

Makvetl:
1) four factions: CHOAM, Harkonnen, Corrino, Atreides. Also: Bene Gesserit and Fremen. Paul is a special case. Atreides and Fremen are definitely "good", Harkonnen are definitely bad.
2) Harkonnen were bad due to murder, torture and cruelty. There might be good characters in a scummy faction or vice versa.
3) Some people may have extra info. There are probably masons. There are probably cops. Why do win conditions have to conflict?
4) Says the BG seem to be very pro-Paul. Quotes opening flavor to say that the Duke is alive (but not flavor to say that she is Jessica…)
5) Spec and scumhunt aren't two separate phases.
6) Answer to snarky comment.
7) Felt that BigNose was asking others to do the work for him. Ignores Meta-Vote. Promises analysis.

misterk:
1) Setup is actually simple. Though second motivations add to cross purposes. The Harkonnens aren't so bad, just not the protagonists.
2) Can't place a cult in the flavor.
3) We should seek scumtells in the spec.
4) How do factions affect play? We need to kill the Harkonnens, who are going to act like normal mafia.
5) comment on English grammar.
6) We should choose our wins based on game theory and really try for two wins. That said, pro-town wins are better, as they make your lynching less likely. Edit: sometimes it's pro-town to get lynched.
7) Mentions that BigNose hasn't done much scumhunting yet. Silknor seems a little suspicious, but perhaps too obvious for scum.

DarkLoink:
1) Many will not quite be scum/town. Expects protagonist to be "town". Politics will be important.
2) Speculation about win conditions. Some people might want two factions to win, some have a faction and some extra condition, some have only non-faction conditions. We should watch Mavketl. Promises analysis.
3) Sees this more as a players vs. players game than factions. Compares it to Death Note. There may be still town-like groups and scum-like groups.

mpolo:
1) Check in after vacation.
2) Agrees with general speculation direction. Cult is unlikely from flavor.
3) Agrees on need for Harkonnen hunt.
4) Win condition is function of allegience means that secondary goals are the same as somebody else's primary goal. That makes Harkonnen supporters also dangerous.
5) One of my wins can't really be worked towards -- I can just hope at the moment.
6) It is the moment for scumhunting.
7) Running out of leads. Promises analysis.

Greenlover:
1) Agrees with Makvetl's towny scum and scummy town distinction. Possibly no true scum group, but specific roles in other factions who are "bad". Could be a free for all. Could be normal mafia. Could be multiple scum factions. Most likely is a free for all or multiple scum factions.
2) Asks what will be revealed on death.
3) Questions Lataro's random/meta-Vote.

b.i.o:
1) CHOAM is independent. Harkonnen is scum. Corrino has a scummy emporer and Sarduakar, but Princess Irulan is likely town-ish. Leto is probably dead, if Yueh is alive, he's probably trying to assassinate the Baron. Lady Jessica leans Atreides over BG. Several important Fremen could be around: Kynes, Chani, Stilgar, others. BG are likely Corrino supporters, except for Jessica. Mother Mohiam is a probably character and definitely Corrino aligned. Smugglers and spacers are also possibilities. Rolelist produced.
2) Probably no cult.

BigNose:
1) Two wins involves a lot of luck. Asks mods about cult. Worried about conflicting win conditions.
2) Can we start scumhunting?
3) Read DUNE many years ago, still shaky on flavor. Could a sandworm be a jester?
4) Scumhunt comment was an act of presence, he has no deep flavor knowledge. There may be 2 twon factions. Probably 4 scum, 1 SK. Watch flavor for signs of cults, number of NKs. Speculation of which factions are scum is ultimately irrelevant at this stage. Takes umbrage at English denegration.
5) Various town factions really reduces down to one town. Please stop speculating about flavor and start looking for scum.
6) Finds Brook's vote a bit extreme, but lets it ride. Thinks that alignments are likely based on the whole book, even though the characters are from the first half. Votes Mavketl.

weiyaoli:
1) Worried about cult, but roleclaim warning could be for lynchers and the like. Thinks cult is very likely.
2) What is cutoff for flavor? Who should be alive?
3) This game should essentially default to hunting Harkonnens.

NaR:
1) Only cult in book is Paul and co. Probably no cult.
2) Snarky comment to Mav.
3) Does Silknor have a non-towny role?

Brooklynxman:
1) Cult is unlikely, Paul really joined the Fremen. Possibly recruiting masons, though.
2) Harkonnens are Nazi-like, Corrinos seek power, Atreides are generally good but fallible. BG are likely seeking to keep players alive. Guild wants spice. Fremen only care about Arrakis, but probably side with Atreides.
3) Fluff. Walks without rhythm.
4) Grammar fix.
5) Probably no cult.
6) Don't pull an ahippo.
7) Cares about double wins.
8) Votes F_C for the suggestion that Harkonnens and Fremen could ever ally. Sees this post as a setup for a false-claim later.
9) Quotes book to show that from the beginning, Harkonnens and Fremen are at each other's throats.

ameretrife:
1) Cult is unlikely. The win conditions are probably not mutually exclusive, as it is possible to get 2 wins. Is Harkonnen the Mafia?
2) Comment on difficulty of English. No faction is purely good, but Harkonnens are the most evil.
3) Says she does not support two factions, but has a second win condition that is somewhat individualized. Hers looks impossible.
4) Has finished reading the book.
5) Only Dr Ug cares about double wins.
6) Jokes that Harkonnens should feel free to show themselves. Running out of leads.

Dr Ug:
1) Silly spec based on the video game. Thinks of the houses as less Bad/Good than factions fighting among one another (hasn't read the book).
2) Probably no sandworms.
3) Questions calling one win condition secondary. Each counts as one win.
4) Likes double wins.

Krong:
1) Cult seems unlikely. Massclaim is bad because of the possibility of characters being kill targets. Sandworm info. If they exist, they could kill, but nobody would want to kill them.
2) Sandworms are probably only a mechanic, not characters.
3) Second win condition is making people hang back. Ping from Adacore and Makvetl for their encouragement to BN to scumhunt. It seemed to be a "you first" type of post.
4) Ping mentioned above is very minor. Setup is more complicated than BigNose thinks. We have to worry about traitors as well..
5) Objects to Silknor's suspicions to a degree. It is possible to think of the Harkonnens as some sort of majority, but calling Atreides and Fremen a scum minority ignores the idea that there is a night-kill, and this is very out of flavor for both groups. This seems to imply that Silknor is not Atreides/Fremen and is trying to fish for information.

Flying_Cookie:
1) Speculates on the form of the role PMs.
2) Knows plot, but weak on characters.
3) Fremen and Atreides are probably not allied. Some goals will overlap. There are probably more unusual goals -- overthrow the emporer, overthrow Harkonnen, control Arrakis. Some factions may end up allying to achieve their goals.
4) Clarifies that she's not suggesting that Harkonnen and Fremen are allies, but they might be able to ignore each other for both to win.
5) Concedes that the Harkonnen and Fremen win conditions are probably mutually exclusive. Doesn't understand the Mavketl votes.

Silknor:
1) BG are not so pro-Paul as having goals that happen to coincide. Fremen likely side with Paul, are against Guild. BG wants to control spice, they're not just doctors. No clear cult, as there is no forced conversion. BG have the Voice. Rolelist.
2) Don't assume a simple town against 1-2 mafia teams. Maybe there's no "town" per se.
3) Has a mostly townish win condition, but no indication of being a majority, hence the speculation in 2. Objects to BigNose's speculation on factions -- Fremen have a different goal than Atreides. Scumhunt is always the right move. But Rolespec and scumhunt are actually not distinct from one another.
4) Less fishing than trying to keep things going. Wouldn't have a majority town faction if he had been mod.

PhoenixEnigma:
1) Arrives late. Reading.

Cycoden:
1) Arrives even later. Initial thoughts were that each House was a faction with its own kill. If there is no cult, the people beating on the cult drum may well be scum. Thinks greenlover's theories are too complicated, but VZ might like that kind of thing. NaR's playful jab at Makvetl is noted. Suspicious of BigNose for wanting to scumhunt without actually doing so. Was willing to accept F_C's post 3 as being in general, but the later justification that Harkonnens and Fremen really could be friends is pinging. Most suspicion on FC.


First comments --

Really inactive players: turret, PhoenixEnigma

Relatively inactive players: Lataro, DarkLoink, Greenlover, b.i.o, weiyaoli, NotARaptor

"Active lurkers": myself (hopefully only until now), Brook (at least until his attack on F_C), ameretrifle, Dr Ug (on the cusp with "relatively inactive")

Several people have promised analysis: Mavketl, DarkLoink, myself. This is the first of these to materialize.

I would like to see BigNose start doing some real scum hunting.

Krong's suggestion that Silknor is not Atreides/Fremen, but probably not complete scum is fairly interesting. This also seems to mesh with Silknor's own statement -- he has a townish win condition, but no indication of being a majority.

F_C's gaffe with the Harkonnens and Fremen seemed totally innocent in the first post, but then he wanted to push it as a real possibility. Then he dropped it like a hot potato. It just felt like scum having been caught in a misstatement and trying to distance himself as quickly as possible. (Question: What is the right pronoun for Flying_Cookie?)

FoS: Flying_Cookie

I think that the various factions are all fairly small at present. There may be mechanisms for allying and such -- Paul and the Fremen, for instance. I also agree with F_C that some of the goals are probably less straightforward than "eliminate another faction(s)". The Fremen are probably only really concerned with Arrakis itself, that it not be exploited, etc. Where the Atreides seem to be interested in revenge against the Harkonnens and regaining control of the planet -- their views on spice are more compatible with the Fremen than the Harkonnen view, so they might be able to ally. The Emporer is mostly concerned about staying in power. BG and Guild are interested in the spice flow. Harkonnen probably want a monopoly on spice by eliminating all other factions (i.e. scum). But that's guessing from a very small amount of information that is in my power.
by mpolo
Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:15 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Well, we seem to be slowing down here. I will try to go through the posts tomorrow or Monday to see if I can produce some analysis of what has gone before. Unfortunately, I don't really have time tonight.
by mpolo
Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:04 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Bignose wrote:Others - Town or Scum as per MODs whim.


Or independent of some ilk.

I agree that scumhunt is the right move now. If we get anything interesting in the lynch/NK, we would obviously return to speculation.
by mpolo
Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:00 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

At least for me, one of my conditions I can directly work towards, and the other I just have to hope turns out (at least until very late in the game). And the way to work directly towards my win is to lynch scum. So I guess I have to start analyzing or something. However, it is too late at night now (Just updated from Fedora 13 to Fedora 14, and was waiting for yum to finish the update -- currently on 629/747 downloads -- but I'm giving up and going to bed. I can worry about getting everything to work tomorrow.)
by mpolo
Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:08 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

The mention of "win condition is a function of allegiance" is actually a bit interesting here. At least my secondary win condition really seemed kind of secondary to me on first reading. But the mod's statement seems to suggest that the people who have my secondary loyalty as their primary loyalty are seeking exactly the same thing as I am. Actually, now I'm seeing this condition as more challenging and workable as a primary win condition. So maybe this revelation of mine doesn't mean much.

But it does mean that Harkonnen supporters are only slightly less dangerous than the Harkonnens themselves.
by mpolo
Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:15 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

I think that that is the essential strategy here. I suspect that that's the one "goal" that everyone will agree with (except for the Harkonnens) -- get rid of the Harkonnens. If I see Sting around, I will point him out for lynching…
by mpolo
Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:48 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

And I thought that I was pretty versed in the flavor here… I'm finding that I really need to re-read Dune here soon. (And I have a good excuse, since the English class I'm teaching is supposed to have a Sci-Fi/Fantasy chapter, so that I'm going to be having someone read this out of the class, most likely.)

The general suspicions are generally good (special thanks to b.i.o for the list of characters, a huge number of whom I had forgotten). I agree with Adacore's idea about the win conditions.

Cult seems hard to fit in from flavor (at least what I can remember), but after the 3 days of unchecked growth in Buffy, I'd like to be sure about this.
by mpolo
Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:41 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

O.K., I'm here and have at least read what has been posted. I am going to catch up on some work that piled up in the last three days, and come back to this.
by mpolo
Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:02 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 91023

Re: Dune Mafia: Pregame

I'll be out until November 2

Return to “Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!”