Search found 34 matches

by Adacore
Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:25 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!

So. Basically, I should've gotten everyone to unvote before I claimed. Ah well. :(
by Adacore
Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:11 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!

Mavketl wrote:That has to suck if you are counting those two completely opposite win conditions (Atreides / Harkonnen) you have there. :P

I could win both of them if I was the last Harkonnen and the last Atreides remaining - everyone else with either would then have lost. I would've tried for that, had the teams been roughly even when I was possessed. As it was, Atreides held such a huge advantage I abandoned any hope of that pretty fast - the mass claim basically made this game impossible for me (but it wasn't due to a broken setup - I'd already lost by that point).

When I was first possessed, I was hoping we'd lynch weiyaoli or D_L instead of mister k, then I could pretend I had a cop, hand you mister k on a platter thus, hopefully, buying my life for another couple of days in which I could whittle down the number of players to few enough for a reasonable shot at the triple-win.

EDIT: In effect, and this did occur to me earlier, I was a serial killer with the added disadvantage of being an explicit enemy to almost every player in the game, rather than merely independent.
by Adacore
Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:43 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!

Mavketl wrote:
Adacore wrote:Ah well, I don't feel too bad about my two losses.
You won the Atreides one, no?

Technically I had four win conditions in total in the game:

Atreides (won)
Abomination (technically won)
Harkonnen (lost)
Spice Addict (lost)

The 'Abomination' win condition didn't really count for a win, though, since its only purpose was to delay giving me the Harkonnen and Spice Addict win conditions. In a game with mulitple and non-uniform number of win conditions for each player, though, I think the number of losses attained by a player is probably more relevant than the number of wins.
by Adacore
Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:24 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!

Flying_Cookie wrote:What was the lynch number for the last night?
Unless I miscounted, we had 10 people, so wouldn't it have taken 6 to lynch, not five?
(Am I missing something?)

I think we had 9 people. That's certainly what I remember basing my 'can I claim' maths on.
by Adacore
Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:21 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!

I'm sorry Dr Ug, mister k, Silknor! I would be curious to know if I would've had enough support from the non-Fremen had my timing been better with my claim? From what Brook said, he would've taken my side, but I was far less sure on whether I could sway mavketl, greenlover, e_e or weiyaoli. The plan from there was to get three Fremen dead, kill one of the remaining Atreides and then fully claim, and do the same thing for the Harkonnen win.

In retrospect, I should've asked for people to unvote me before I said anything, but I was trying to catch the thread at a time when those with votes on me were still around.

If I'd pulled it off, it would've been a triple-win for me, and a single win for Mav, greenlover, PE, amt, with scum double-win. That would've been epic. I knew from D5 that I was effectively screwed on any win condition except Atreides, and I was relatively certain that I was going to win that by then (I knew from my haunting by Dr Ug that mister k was the last Harkonnen/Spice Addict left except me).

Ah well, I don't feel too bad about my two losses. By the time I joined the scum team they'd already very successfuly imploded.
by Adacore
Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:34 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D7: Before they catch you chainsmoking. Word.

EBWOP: Can you also please unvote me so I don't get immediately lynched to death by the Fremen?
by Adacore
Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:58 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D7: Before they catch you chainsmoking. Word.

Ok. This is getting far too close to a lynch for my liking. So I'm going to admit something: I lied in my previous claim.

My second win condition is not to kill Baron Harkonnen. It never was. At the game start my second win condition was simply 'abomination', which stated that I had a chance of inheriting win conditions of my ancestors. At that point, I had no idea what those were, but a bit of research on wiki indicated that they would be from Baron Harkonnen. Sure enough, when Dr Ug died I did gain one of his win conditions - I'm now a Spice Addict.

I was not lying, however, about the kill. I can choose someone to kill in the day, they die at the lynch (or no-lynch, if that happens), like a 'sins kill.

My current understanding of the state of the game is as follows:

Mav and greenlover are simple mutual-survivors.
Brook is an Atreides survivor.
Wei and e_e are pure Atreides.
I am Atreides / Spice Addict.

D_L, F_C and BigNose are all Fremen. I want them all dead.

So here's what I propose - if you decide to lynch one of the Fremen, I will target one of the other Fremen with my kill. If you continue with lynching me, I will randomly target one of the survivors. Voting with me, we guarantee a win for all Atreides, Spice Addicts, plus Mav, greenlover. Voting against me, at least one of you in those categories will not get that win.

vote: Flying_Cookie

(F_C because he's Fremen, but not Atreides, and there was some conjecture from Mav earlier that he could be Harkonnen).
by Adacore
Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:59 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D7: Before they catch you chainsmoking. Word.

Are there any roles we would expect to be in the game that have not been claimed? Particularly anti-town ones? If we're considering the possibility of a false-claim by DL, what would he be covering up?
by Adacore
Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:52 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D7: Before they catch you chainsmoking. Word.

Right, the popular view seems to be that I should claim, so I shall. Sorry for not being around before now - life's quite hectic atm.

I can confirm the stuff weiyaoli has said - he is Lady Jessica and I'm Alia Atreides. I assume he has an Atreides alignment (it certainly makes sense) but I don't know for sure. I don't know what his second alignment would be - BG seems to make sense with his powers, so I'm inclined to believe that.

Similarly, as he said, he doesn't know my win conditions for sure. My win conditions are as follows:

- My primary win condition was Atreides, which I claimed early-on and have been pursuing for most of the game, because my second win condition seemed pretty damn hard to pull off.
- My secondary win condition was to kill Baron Vladimir Harkonnen after I was born, either by being on his lynch or by the use of a one-shot kill (which I still have, although I'm not sure it'll work on anyone other than the Baron).

As I indicated to wei back when we could communicate, though, there was an implication in my role PM that I might be subject to some form of possession (in the flavour-bit, rather than the actual role description). Maybe this was linked to the second win being fulfilled and since I didn't fulfil it, I don't know either way what would have happened if I had. At the time I read it as meaning someone was actively searching for me to possess, I'm not so sure about that now because from what y'all have said it doesn't really fit the flavour.

The reason I didn't want to be born immediately on D2 was twofold: firstly, I considered weiyaoli less likely to be killed than me - he hadn't done anything to draw attention - and, thus, thought the doctor-like ability if I were to be targetted could be helpful. Secondly, as I said above, I was convinced I had someone hunting for me to possess - the role PM said that while I was in utero I would be protected from all powers, not just kills, so I took that to mean I'd be safe from possession until I was actually born. Honestly, I was perhaps too concerned about my own survival - I expected there to be more kills around than there seem to be.

I didn't have any idea who the Baron was, so didn't see any value in pursuing that win condition until I had some information. I don't know why I didn't think it might be Dr Ug when we were debating his claims, but it honestly didn't occur to me until he was already lynched and I'd lost the win anyway. So for almost the entire game I've basically been ignoring my second win and focussing purely on Atreides.

I was still slightly reticent about claiming today, since I don't know if anyone could still be trying to possess me and the OP said to be wary of roleclaiming, but it's kinda happened by default now, and I seem to be ok so far.
by Adacore
Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:16 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D6: Break, Eject! Eject, Eject!

I'll reciprocate that and confirm that I believe weiyaoli also has the Atreides win condition.

I agree with the speculation from BigNose that mister k likely has a kill and, thus, is likely scum. I'd missed his attempt on his own life in the day-start flavour - it's not a certain clincher (it could equally be simple mod-flavour for someone without a means of killing attempting to kill themselves), but mister k was under heavy suspicion already and, despite this, hasn't made a roleclaim yet.

vote: mister k

Of the other players, working off D_L's recent post, I trust weiyaoli, and kinda-trust D_L (atreides/fremen), E_E (atreides) and F_C (fremen) (yay for two word user name trusting)!

Less sure on Mav (whose active win condition is, as I understand it, unknown), from looking at wiki Margot Fenring could plausibly a number of different allegiances, including Atreides and Corrino (but probably not Harkonnen). Or, wait, is she claiming she's protecting Count Fenring? He's probably not very pro-town, I would guess, from looking at wiki (I wish my flavour knowledge was better)... which makes a little suspect of Mav. But there was speculation earlier in the game that he probably isn't anti-town. Ok, colour me confused - I need to think on this more.

If Mav's speculation on Brook being Halleck is right, I'd guess that makes him reasonably safely town (again, wiki-based knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong).

BigNose claimed Fremen, and I have no particular reason not to trust him (but also, no reason to trust him either, really).

I don't think we have anything at all on greenlover, do we? But hopefully wei's power will correct that.

Sorry if this post was a bit shambolic and disorganised - I've not got much time for mafia right now, and this game has me a bit confused.
by Adacore
Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:34 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D5: Check Out My New Weapon

Ok, ok, I'll vote. The popular candidate seems to be D_L, but I think he's so close to the hammer it would be foolish in the extreme to vote him without any analysis. Personally I vaguely remember BxM pinging me earlier, but I can't remember why. I need to vote to survive, so I'll put my vote there anyway, for now.

Vote: Brooklynxman
by Adacore
Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:17 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D5: Check Out My New Weapon

Yeah, I'm here, I just can't think of much to contribute right now (and D4 was really short, right? Or I just wasn't around). But I guess I could say some summary-type stuff, so I shall!

First off, players still alive in the game:

Adacore
greenlover
Dark Loink
Brooklynxman
Mavketl
e_e
PhoenixEnigma
BigNose
F_C
mister k
weiyaoli

We've had 9 players die, and they had the following breakdown of alignments:

Krong (Corrino/Harkonnen)
Lataro (Harkonnen/Independent)
mpolo (Fremen/Corrino)
cycoden (Harkonnen/Independent)
Silknor (Bene Gesserit/Spice Addict)
Dr Ug (Harkonnen/Spice Addict)
b.i.o (Fremen/Atreides)
ameretrifle (Corrino/Harkonnen/Independent)
Not A Raptor (Atreides/Fremen)

So that's:

5 Harkonnen
3 Fremen
3 Independent
2 Spice Addict
2 Corrino
2 Atreides
1 Bene Gesserit

In addition to that, F_C has claimed Fremen/Independent (lyncher), and Mavketl has claimed Bene Gesserit. And I've claimed Atreides. Probably other claims too, that I've missed.

I figure we can't really have more than another one, possibly two, Harkonnen. It sounds like that fits with flavour as well, since we're missing Piter de Vries - he would definitely be Harkonnen, right? From the wiki it certainly seems like he would be evil. Are there any other likely Harkonnens left? At this point, I imagine any remaining Harkonnens may well be prioritising their secondary win condition - so what would that be for Piter? I can't really tell from his wiki article.

It looks like the kill is a Harkonnen power, to me, thus it is likely that there are more Atreides than there are Harkonnen, so probably a good five or more of us left alive. I doubt any faction is eliminated yet - I wouldn't be surprised if Fremen and Spice Addict (I agree they're likely directly opposed) are both of a similar size, probably only slightly smaller than Atreides/Harkonnen.

Anyone with a Bene Gesserit alignment seems to have already lost that, so I guess it's not terribly important to speculate on their numbers. Did we ever work out what the Corrino win condition was? Was it something to do with the emporer? In which case it may well already be resolved, but if not they may be another scummy faction that can cause trouble.

Final point: I guess weiyaoli's voice-power means we don't want to lynch mister k today. Probably not weiyaoli either. I guess I should do some actual player (rather than game) analysis... I'll post more later.
by Adacore
Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:21 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D3: To Tame a Land

Hmm... but you false-claimed as an anti-town player*. I can't see a town player doing that, hence I think, even if it was a false claim, you're probably still a good lynch candidate and are unlikely to be someone I would be unhappy to see dead.

vote: Dr Ug

*imo, I'm reasonably happy to consider Fremen town along with Atreides; from what I've learnt of the flavour that seems reasonable.
by Adacore
Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:30 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D3: To Tame a Land

I'm with BigNose - that breadcrumbing was too flavour based for me to have any chance of picking up on it.

Are we claiming that F_C can be left alive, despite his attempt on NaR's life? I really don't want some radical assassin hanging around if he's going to keep trying to kill NaR. I'm unclear on amt - forcing the public claim doesn't make much sense. If this is standard mafia setup and she's scum, then she would benefit more from just keeping her suspicions to herself and telling her scumbuddies in private chat. I guess it would make sense if she's anti-town (anti-Atreides*) and has no private communication with her faction-buddies, though; I don't know how likely that is. I'm not going to vote just yet, though. She's been very cagey about her win conditions, indicating repeatedly that she doesn't understand how to achieve them... that could just be deviousness and an attempt to deflect from her being scum (after all, independent claims are a common scum tactic), but its enough that I'm going to hold off for now.

Is there anyone else who would explicitly want Paul Atreides dead (or exposed) other than Jamis and the Harkonnens?

Final thought - do we trust the machine? This could all be a setup - if amt and NaR are both on the same (non-Atreides) side, for example, and the machine doesn't actually force you to tell the truth, they could be playing us. I guess that would need Brook and Dr Ug to be involved as well, though, so it's not massively likely.

*Screw it, I've probably hinted it at it enough, but I'll explicitly claim Atreides allegiance too.
by Adacore
Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:57 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D3: To Tame a Land

If you have the chance to use it before NaR gets his hands on it... that's probably a good thing.
by Adacore
Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:53 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D2: I am Mauve'bib, the Kumkwat Haagendasz!

cycoden wrote:Right, so you've figured out that I was lying about being Harkonnen* - and yet you are voting for me? What does that say about your allegiances?

I think you're lying about what the Harkonnen win condition is, I do not think you're lying about your allegiance being Harkonnen.
by Adacore
Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:32 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D2: I am Mauve'bib, the Kumkwat Haagendasz!

EBWOP: Also, I agree with mister k - we definitely don't want to speed-lynch, because (a) contributions from lurkers would be useful and (b) seeing the results of the mpolo kill (if the kill was real and we do see any) before nightfall would be interesting.
by Adacore
Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:30 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D2: I am Mauve'bib, the Kumkwat Haagendasz!

Yeah, I really don't believe that win condition claim either.

I am under the (fairly strong) impression that an allegiance of X always has a win condition of Y, for all players with allegiance X. cycoden seems to be claiming that an allegiance of 'Harkonnen' has an attached win condition of 'make cycoden emporer'. This seems highly unlikely - Lataro had the same allegiance, as did Krong, and I don't believe either of them wanted Krong to die and cycoden to be made emporer. Thus, cycoden has to be lying about his Harkonnen win condition - I suspect it's probably more along the lines of "you win when you've killed everyone else", or something equally similar to a standard scum win condition.

Based on the above, I have no reason to believe that his secondary win condition is what he claims it to be either. If he's lying about the first (and its already being fulfilled), he's quite probably lying about the second (which he claims is just pleasantly innocuous survivor). Yeah, I'm not buying it, sorry.

vote: cycoden
by Adacore
Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:54 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D2: I am Mauve'bib, the Kumkwat Haagendasz!

Wow, that night (& associated flavour) didn't make things any less confusing (to me) at all. I was really hoping we'd get some clarity.

So we don't get the win conditions actually revealed, merely the allegiances. That sucks - it would be nice to know what the Harkonnens and Corrinos actually want. I'm getting the general vibe that the Harkonnen=scum thing is more likely than some of us (including me) thought yesterday, though.

I'll try and put together a longer more cohesive post later, but for now I thought I'd comment on the player-by-player analysis discussion b.i.o and greenlover were having in the twilight:

Part of the reason I do appreciate that style of analysis is exactly because it's easy for scum players to sneak in misinformation. It means when someone dies, and we find they were scum, we have their comments on every player in the game which can be analysed for information and connections. Similarly, others' posts about the dead players can be analysed. I agree such analysis isn't always massively useful immediately, but it can be good to refer back to.
by Adacore
Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:35 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

I don't really see the suspicion on F_C being anything other than fleeting - he made a single ill-advised comment, the only real scumminess was the way he backed off so fast, but even that wasn't really anything massive. I'm more suspicious of Silknor, mpolo and, of course, Lataro. I now believe BigNose is most likely some kind of independent, but probably not outright scum - I wouldn't be massively opposed to a BigNose lynch, but I think Lataro remains the best target.

While Lataro's dislike for large games has some bearing on the fact that he's been acting scummily, it doesn't give us any information on whether he is scum or town. He's not provided a solid defence and/or any decent analysis, yet has voted twice with little or no cause, thus I think he should be lynched.
by Adacore
Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:13 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

EBWOP: The asterisk is meant to link the first paragraph of explanation to the third, but I missed the corresponding asterisk before the third paragraph ("It is unclear..."). Ah well.
by Adacore
Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:11 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

weiyaoli wrote:
VectorZero wrote:Lynch with majority, deadline lynch with plurality if >15 people have voted, RANDOM NON-VOTER MODKILL if <16 people have voted.


What does this bit mean?

My reading of it is as follows:

'deadline lynch with plurality' means the person who has received the greatest number of votes, but not necessarily an outright majority (which would be more than half the votes available, the standard lynch criteria). So in a situation with 6 votes for player A, 5 votes for player B and 5 votes for player C, player A would be lynched at the deadline, rather than it being no-lynch, or random, whereas 11 votes are required to lynch before the deadline.*

'random non-voter modkill' means that only those who have not voted would be killed. Thus, if things stay as they are, one of: {Silknor, Dark Loink, Mavketl, PhoenixEnigma, Not A Raptor, BigNose, Flying_Cookie, cycoden, b.i.o, weiyaoli, Dr Ug} will be lynched/modkilled at random in about 64 hours.

It is unclear what would happen in a situation with at least 16 total votes, but with a tie for vote leader. Strictly, that would not be plurality, as no player would have a 'lead' in votes, so it does not fit any of the given criteria.

What happens in the event of a tied vote at deadline?

Also, I noticed while doing this that turret is still in the player list - could e_e be put in, please? I use that list a lot.
by Adacore
Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:44 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

The promised summary to my analysis post from yesterday:

I think Silknor, Lataro and BigNose are acting the most scummy, but I'm cautious of being too suspicious of BigNose, since this does kinda fit his normal playstyle as town. I'm also somewhat suspicious of mpolo, Krong and cycoden. For some reason I'm feeling fairly confident about these, but I could, of course, be way off the mark.

ameretrifle, greenlover, D_L, Brook, mister k, b.i.o and weiyaoli seem townish so far (mister k is the only one I'm anything near convinced on, though). Perhaps its a facet of the two-win conditions and/or multiple factions thing that I find more people suspicious than I do towny - normally it's the reverse.

Anyway, given his posts so far, I think the most logical vote is for Lataro at this point. I thought for a while his voting for Mav might be the result of a power use or post restriction, but that seems more unlikely after the second vote. Thus, until he provides a better content post which persuades me he is not a good lynch:

vote: Lataro
by Adacore
Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:50 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Krong wrote:Adacore, could you point out where this happened?
Adacore wrote:BigNose - pretty much states outright that he is aligned with two factions which may or may not have competing win conditions.

I may have missed it while I was busy getting minor pings from you :P (The pings which, as I said in my vote post, I now blame on BigNose's antics, and fully retract.)

This is the post I was referring to:
BigNose wrote:I'm not sure how we are menat to achieve 2 win conditions except by luck.

If I am in Faction A, then I have a win condition of Faction B and a win condition with Faction B (for example).
Faction A has win objectives C & D.
Faction B has win objectives D & E
So only achieving win condition D will give those with 2 win conditions a full win.

While I (in Faction A) would know what my win condition is, I don't have a clue as to who is in Faction B, or indeed their win condition.

I read that as meaning that BigNose is aligned with two factions.
by Adacore
Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:33 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Ok, let's do a quick overview of my thoughts on all the players at this stage:

Silknor - posted long role spec, then voiced cocern over the town vs scum (vs scum?) idea. Suggested the multiple-competing-factions model. Claims to be uninformed and speculates numerous possibilities for setups. Suggests the Fremen and Atriedes factions will not be aligned, and should be separate for the purposes of discussion; encourages scumhunting. Complains about lurkers, suggests more than one NK and expects there not to be a majority town faction. I'm finding all of that pretty suspect, really. I think Silknor is likely scum (probably Harkonnen, if so).

Adacore - I've mostly been asking random flavour-based questions as they occur to me and trying to figure out the setup. I've done no analysis yet as I'm so lacking on flavour knowledge, but I'm starting now (obviously). I consider myself immaculately townish :mrgreen:

ameretrifle - implied in her first content post that her win condition(s) could be subject to change, and states that she has a 'primary' faction win condition and a 'secondary' more specific win condition which she describes as nearly impossible. I'm guessing this is to protect or target some individual player or group of players whose identity she doesn't know. I'm leaning town on amt.

lataro - has made two content posts so far. Both have been short and of the format "I don't know the flavour; vote; subpar explanation". He's looking very scummy to me at this point, to be honest.

greenlover - suggests that win conditions should be on an individual basis rather than a house/alignment basis. States that this would indicate the possibility of multiple indeps, SKs and a possible free-for-all setup, standard town-scum or the multiple-factions scenario. Favours free-for-all or multiple-factions. Queries Lataro's random vote on Mav; has pings from Silknor and F_C. I'm leaning town on greenlover.

Dark Loink - agrees with the multiple-factions idea. Wonders which faction would be 'town', discusses win conditions and proposes the idea of being aligned with both Harkonnen and Atriedes. Considers people with more than one faction alignment likely, and 'true independents' unlikely. Suspicions of Mav. Suggests that even in the multiple-factions arrangement, there will be one or more factions which are (combined) equivalent to 'town' and one or two 'scum' groups. Could do with posting more analysis, but I'm going to say townish for now, possibly a member of both a 'town' faction and another more neutral faction.

Brooklynxman - doubts the existance of a cult and has a very strong conviction that Atreides & Fremen = good and Harkonnen = bad. This implies to me he is one or the other - either Atreides or Fremen trying to defend his faction or Harkonnen trying to spill wine. Later, states strong belief that Harkonnen and Fremen could not work together and votes F_C based on this. I think he's either Harkonnen, Fremen or Atreides, but am undecided on which, and in all honesty that doesn't really narrow it down much, I guess. Ah well - at least for now, I'll put him in the 'townish' bracket.

Mavketl - began with a list of role spec possibilities, discussed the possibilities and alignments a little. Agreed with the primary/secondary win condition idea. Suggests a prevalence of traitors, encouraged BigNose to scumhunt then defended said encouragement. Did review/analysis post with not much analysis (kinda similar to this, I guess), rails against BigNose's vote. I'm not sure why I considered Mav suspicious before (I think it was the post about traitor possibilities), I'm not really getting that feeling from a re-read; leaning town.

turret - hasn't posted, should be replaced.

PhoenixEnigma - hasn't posted much. Suggested that mister k could have both a pro-town win and a more dubious win condition. Raised the Mav-Jessica question (which I hadn't noticed, if I had I may have asked too). Not enough to get any real read here.

Krong - suggests that secondary win conditions may be killer/lyncher roles to prevent a massclaim. Suggests no cult, and that sandworms would be neutral, attacking those that get near them in response to my questions. Doesn't expect sandworms as players. Suggests two win conditions will encourage lurking, states minor pings on Mav and me. Thinks BigNose is oversimplifying, states high likelihood of traitors and roles with conflicted loyalties. Voices suspicion of Silknor for not being Fremen or Atriedes. Then states suspicion of BigNose and F_C, in particular BigNose, with BN's vote for Mav pushing Krong to vote. I'm getting a mixed read from Krong - I'm getting some pings, and the emphasis on traitors and multiple factions, plus the way he worded a few things means I'm leaning scum, but only marginally.

Not A Raptor - hasn't posted much except to comment on a cult and ask a couple of (sensible) questions. Needs to post more. As ever, with NaR, we may find it difficult to see past the crazy, but there's nothing really there to get a handle on yet.

BigNose - pretty much states outright that he is aligned with two factions which may or may not have competing win conditions. Following this, starts badgering people to begin scum-hunting as opposed to flavour spec. Having already posted that he is in two factions, he then suggests our setup is likely near-standard town vs scum, and also posits the idea that which house is town/scum is irrelevant, because scummy players will look like scum. This is, I suppose, partly true but also invalidates a lot of the logic for why flavour spec is a useful/good thing (which again makes sense in context, because BigNose is claiming it is not). Votes Mav purely to encourage posting (odd, she was already posting). Makes a very indepth post-count. BigNose isn't looking very town-ish to me, but nor does his normal playstyle; I actually think he is town.

mpolo - agrees with my idea of primary/secondary win conditions, and that there is likely something similar to a town/scum divide (with Harkonnens as scum). Then he rethinks, suggesting that a multiple-faction scenario is more likely based on the allegiance-linked win conditions. Posted extensive player notes, is suspicious of F_C for same reason as BxM, but doesn't vote out of fear that it is an honest mistake. I'm unconvinced on mpolo, if anything leaning slightly towards scummy.

Flying_Cookie - made one content post about the possibilities of different factions being able to win together and different alliances, including Harkonnen/Fremen which stirred up some suspicion. Then posted some defence of this, indicating that he meant they would merely be able to both survive, as opposed to forming an actual alliance. I'm relatively convinced this was an honest mistake: although I've seen no evidence of F_C being townie, I dont' think he's looked particularly scummy either. Neutral.

Misterk - initially assumes the town vs scum setup, as opposed to the competing factions one. This implies he's either one of the major factions, or an independent so separate he could not possibly be aligned with a faction, to me (no idea who/what the latter would be, if we're ruling out sandworms, though). Also favours the primary + secondary win condition setup. Votes BigNose for his random/aggressive behaviour. I think he's likely town.

cycoden - took a long time (and a modprod) to post, has made one content post. Suggests a multiple-factions idea, but also proposes that each house would have a kill. Suspicious of me for raising cult question (aside: I did that not because I was majorly concerned about a cult, but to see how people would react). Doubts individualistic win conditions are prevalent. Suspicious of F_C and BigNose. I'm very wary on cycoden - suggesting that the game is, in effect, multiple scum factions in competition (with Atriedes as 'town' in name only) seems like a fairly scummy move to me.

b.i.o - responded to Mav's rolespec, then made a more complete list of role possibilities. Suggests no cult. Lists possible win conditions for factions, suggests most factions will be looking for a majority and may be able to ally to achieve it. Hasn't done anything in the way of analysis yet. I'm neutral here, although I suspect b.i.o is a member of one of the 'Houses' I can't tell which one (incidentally, he suggested, in effect, that Corrino are mafia-supporters, with Harkonnen as mafia; while Fremen are town-supporters, with Atriedes as town).

weiyaoli - didn't post much early aside from a reply to my cult question which felt vaguely cult-ish to me. But since I don't think there is a cult, I doubt that's relevant. Favours the Harkonnen = scum, anti-Harkonnen = town view of the game. Has similar view on BigNose to me, with slight suspicion; also doesn't consider F_C suspicious. Aside from that, hasn't posted much - even with lack of flavour knowledge, he could just ask more questions, or do some analysis. I'm neutral, leaning town on wei.

Dr Ug - made a comedy rolespec post based on the game. Thinks all players are human from flavour (I'm not so sure), and suggests that win conditions are unlikely to be considered using the 'primary/secondary' idea. Suggests players will attempt to get their easiest win condition, not the 'most towny'. Aside from that, no real content - could do with posting more, but I'm going to guess at independent for now.

Don't really have time to summarise now - this took way longer than I expected and it's late. I'll put up a summary later, but I believe my biggest suspicions are on Silknor and Lataro.
by Adacore
Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:50 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

That does raise an interesting point - if you're in a situation where it's technically possible to get both wins, but you think the chances are maybe 10%, with a 90% chance of not getting either whereas you could concentrate on one win with a 50% chance of success, which option would/should people pursue?

Also, I'd like to say the option that is pro-town (or pro-faction, at any rate) should be 'preferred' as a primary win condition, personally. Helping others in your faction win is just as important as winning yourself, imo. Basically if you go for a 'solo' win condition (lyncher or survivor, for example), you get 1 win. If you go for a faction win condition and your faction has 20 players, you get 20 wins - the second option is far better.
by Adacore
Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:46 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

VectorZero wrote:
greenlover wrote:What will be revealed about a player's role when they die?
Rolename, allegiences, and some elements of their powers.

So not their win conditions?
by Adacore
Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:19 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

I don't deny I'm being conservative in going after people. That's largely because I'm trying to understand the setup - I'm not clear if we're in a scum vs town with a few independents situation, or a deathnote-style faction vs faction vs faction situation. Starting the game with no knowledge of the flavour, I wasn't even sure I was one of the good guys (although I became reasonably convinced I am fairly quickly). I certainly can't tell how/if people are spinning the flavour in a way that is pro- or anti- town / my faction.

Having said that, I did get a few pings off Mavketl, but only minor 'something doesnt' feel quite right to me here' feelings. And weiyaoli is the one who I felt responded most like I'd expect a cult leader to when I asked about the cult possibilities (the main reason I posed the question was to draw out responses and identify potential cultists), but since we've established there likely isn't a cult that probably doesn't matter.

All in all, I don't have strong enough opinions on anyone to merit a FoS, let alone a vote, yet. If BigNose does then he should, of course, state them for the town to debate. So yes, in essence, a polite "please, you first" would be a good way to describe my views.

I didn't see it touched on yet, but on the subject of flavour spec - are there any powers the bad guys would be likely to have?
by Adacore
Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:25 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Yeah - the thing with closed set up games is that there isn't anything to talk about on Day 1. In theme games this is alleviated by having the ability to speculate - the speculation, and the resultant conversation, provide material for analysis so that we can start properly hunting scum. It prevents the 'dead game' syndrome seen in the first few days of large vanilla games.
by Adacore
Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:18 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

I agree with Mavketl - I was assuming most players have one 'generic' win condition ('faction X wins the game'), and one 'specific' win condition (for example, 'player A survives', or 'lynch player B'). I guess we'll find out more after someone dies and we get a role revealed.
by Adacore
Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:52 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Also, it occurs to me we should get this out of the way early: is there any individual or faction in the flavour that has any kind of recruitment ability? If there's the possibility of a cult, we want to know about it now, rather than the standard theme-game thing of not realising it exists until about Day 4...
by Adacore
Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:30 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked at the tone of my voice

Given I know absolutely nothing of the flavour (my hunt for a copy of the book continues), I could use at least some speculation? The only thing I know from pop-culture references is that there might be sandworms, and those would be bad (right?). From the wiki, I understand there are three Houses, but I have no idea if that would translate into three competing factions (ala Death Note 2) or something else.

Let's go back to basics. 20 players. I figure we're looking at something in the range of 4-6 players in the 'scum' faction, with a few independents. The two win conditions thing implies that everyone has (at least) one nonstandard win condition, so we should be wary of taking anything anyone does at face value - even a 'townie' character could well have a lyncher secondary win condition, for example. It also implies, on a similar note, that there will be no cohesive groups with identical win conditions - even groups of players aligned together could have some of their secondary win conditions in conflict.

This could be a very interesting game, but I think I need to see some flavour speculation before I have a chance of understanding how the setup could possibly work. Anyone? Please?
by Adacore
Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:45 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune Mafia: Pregame

Confirm. Even if I don't need to.
by Adacore
Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:59 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90945

Re: Dune Mafia: Pregame

ameretrifle wrote:...Why does that add up to 29? XD

You're only dreaming 9 of them.

Return to “Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!”