Search found 15 matches

by Krong
Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:56 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90974

Re: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!

Yep, nothing like getting NKed N1 as a powerless survivor. Nothing, that is, except getting NKed N1 as a scum supporter and watching scum flounder the rest of the game...

*sigh*

Was it because I pointed out your much-too-simplistic alignment-spec, Dr Ug? I mean, if you don't want people calling you out on attempts to be misleading, don't be obviously misleading. :P

Congrats to greenlover and Mav, btw, for coming through with flying colors!
by Krong
Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:41 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90974

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Can everyone PLEASE stop talking? We're at about 4 votes past lynch, and should assume it's night until VZ gets back.

VectorZero wrote:I will be out of town for 36 hours; if a lynch occurs, I'll try to kick on to D2 ASAP, but internet may be patchy.

Remember to submit N1 actions, or start of D2 actions, before the lynch. You've had long enough, there will be no extensions.
by Krong
Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:31 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90974

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

b.i.o wrote:I find that that gives me a feel for the way the game is "flowing" (there's really not a good word for this), and I can very often pick out suspicious patterns in that flow.

Let's call it, say, "the weirding way". :D

Lataro's claiming Rabban, who is pretty darn clearly anti-town. Can't think of any jester roles in this game either, or possible bomb roles other than the Duke (pro-town bomb?), and Lataro would obviously have claimed him rather than get lynched. I'm more than willing to change bandwagons at this point. Also, it looks as though by not voting him until now and thinking he looked townie in his recent posts, I've succeeded in linking myself to him... oh well, I'm glad to be wrong in this case.

Unvote
Vote: Lataro


I think this is hammer.
by Krong
Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:45 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90974

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

b.i.o wrote:I'm going to go for DL:

vote: Dark Loink

His only substantial post is a summary of everything that everyone has done. I think that gigantic "here's what I think about everyone" posts are a really good way to pretend you're contributing something useful in the first place (I think they're nigh-useless for analysis--looking at everyone individually is a great way to miss the big picture of what's happening, and that's how I pick up on scum, especially early), and DL's post didn't even do that.

I get what you're saying, but...

<meta time>

...DarkLoink has been posting very little which even tries to be content of late. (This is sort of mean, but it's meant in his defense right now. :) ) This is the longest post I've ever seen him make, and the only time I can remember him making an effort at the standard "analyze all players" post (though come to think of it, did he actually get everyone? I need to look back at it.)

I don't think he left off actual feelings on who is scum intentionally, and I'd rather we not punish him for his effort to participate. I do think he should summarize what he actually thinks rather than "this is what happened", but this isn't his "active lurky" pattern at all.

</meta time>
by Krong
Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:34 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90974

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

I think that'll help summarize some of the points people have made, DL, but ermm... who do you think is scummy?

Dr Ug wrote:I don't see how this isn't what I said. There are people who are Harkonnen who want people who are atreides dead. There may be people who aren't Harkonnen (like the emporer) who want the same. There are people who are atreides, who want people who are harkonnen dead. There may be people (probably are) who aren't atreides, but want the Harkonnen dead (probably several fremen). Similarly for fremen vs CHOAM.

Apologies for removing the context, but the quote pyramid was getting large.

You seem to be arguing that the game is set up like a cross shape (+), with Atreides opposite from Harkonnen and Fremen opposite from CHOAM. The point we're making is that that's way too simplistic, even if you say "and there are independents". Atreides and the Fremen should be pretty strongly allied, while CHOAM might be in mild opposition to both (since neither would seem as likely to them to guarantee the flow of spice as Harkonnen). And this isn't including the BGs, or whether the Emperor would be separate in motivation from CHOAM, or whatever. As Silknor said, you might want to break out of the flavor from the computer game.

Also... um, this game's slowed down suddenly, especially if we're getting back to rolespec. I hope this isn't going to be another "lurk until deadline" game.

Also also, sorry for the miscount, mister k!
by Krong
Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:47 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90974

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Brooklynxman wrote:
greenlover wrote:EBWOP: Next time, I will find a faster way to do that. Making the above post took about 12 hours, off and on. That is way to long for a mafia post, IMO.


Yes, we can tell. Just do the few players you feel scummiest about next time.

Err... yes. It's kind of hard to wade through all that, too, though the summary at the bottom (vote, FoS's, IGMEOY) helps.

Since it's been asked for... unofficial votals and voting history:

Page 1

Page 2
Lataro votes Mav

Page 3

Page 4
BXM votes F_C
BigNose votes Mav
Krong votes BigNose
mister k votes BigNose
BigNose unvotes
Lataro unvotes, votes BigNose

Page 5
AMT votes BigNose
Adacore votes Lataro
greenlover votes Lataro


Unofficial votals:
Flying_Cookie (1) - Brooklynxman
BigNose (4) - Krong, mister k, Lataro, ameretrifle
Lataro (2) - Adacore, greenlover

And yes, I'm aware that this is one of those "look like you're being useful" things, but I only do this when I'm losing track of the votes myself. For instance, had no idea how far along the BigNose wagon was, and whether we have enough that people might be voting just to finish the day off. I don't think we're quite at that point yet, though.

Along those lines, AMT's vote post pinged me a bit. It seemed like someone joining onto what they thought was already a bandwagon. Her point that "if anything's going to happen, it would have happened by now" does sound like a bit of "why aren't we voting yet", though I'm not sure that's necessarily scummy.

I'm very glad that BigNose has decided to post something that resembles scumhunting, but I feel like it's too disjointed and too late, for as much as he's been talking about it. I am curious, though, what Dark Loink has to say about Mav, since it sounds like he was referring to the day-start "rumor", but I don't see why that would make him more suspicious.

Also, something about Lataro's recent posts made me actually believe him on his reasoning for his questionable vote. I'm scared. It's also probably a sign that I need sleep.
by Krong
Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:36 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90974

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Alright, done a bit of looking around. Not as in-depth as some people have done, but I noticed a few things.

NaR, Lataro, and Dr Ug. 3 players who are normally quite active, and we've got very very little from them. All Lataro's done is pop-up with a meta-vote and then a quick BigNose vote. Dr Ug's popped in to ask a few easy questions that probably combine to be less than his initial joke post. And NaR's done even less than that.

All of them have claimed to have little flavor-knowledge from the book, which is fine, but the two-win-conditions thing is a significant enough difference from the usual that they could be active off of analysis of that alone. Would like to see them posting more.

And Lataro, well, I'd think it's a bit more likely that he really was looking for scumtells than bandwagoning, but I'm not sure I could place the difference between them.

mpolo. Adacore thought he looked slightly scummy, and mpolo had a bit of an odd self-accusation of not posting enough analysis that caught my attention. Aaand... yeah, I'm not seeing it. He looks pretty townie so far. The thing I noticed the most was that his posts didn't really seem guarded at all, which I'd even say makes him unlikely to even be indy. Still, he's a good scum player, will stay on watch, etc. etc.

BigNose. Err... I tried to look at this with an open mind, but I kept running into weird stuff. Like this, well before his Mav vote:
BigNose wrote:
Mavketl wrote:BigNose: feel free to start scumhunting!

And my first suspicion is centred on you :D .
Oh alright, it's only a joke.

And this:
BigNose wrote:Whether the Harkunnon or the Fremen or the Atriedes are Town or Scum is (slightly) irrelevant other than speculation at this moment.
Whether there is a Cult or not, is dependant on the MODs whim.
It is only after N1, that we may get more of an idea.
For all we know, the MOD could have cast the Fremen as Scum, but until we lynch Scum, we are not going to find out.

I think if this wasn't D1, I'd still be a bit reluctant to vote you just for this posting weirdness. But posting weirdness is really what we've got to go on today, and you've certainly got enough of it.
by Krong
Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:39 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90974

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Adacore, could you point out where this happened?
Adacore wrote:BigNose - pretty much states outright that he is aligned with two factions which may or may not have competing win conditions.

I may have missed it while I was busy getting minor pings from you :P (The pings which, as I said in my vote post, I now blame on BigNose's antics, and fully retract.)

Nothing in what BN has said since has really done anything to convince me of his townieness; each of his posts contains some variation on "I'm scumhunting, unlike the rest of you", but all we've really got from him is (1) a vote on one of our most active players, justified as a lurker vote, and (2) a postcount summary. I do see what mpolo and Adacore are getting at, though, because BigNose's posts in most games tend to look scummy to me regardless of whether he is or not. Hrmmm. I'll try to see if anyone out there looks worse later tonight.

(A preview: Lataro's joke vote followed by an easy bandwagon vote is not going to be portrayed in a positive light.)
by Krong
Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:11 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90974

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Hey, things are happening finally!

I'd guess this is just parroting what everyone else is saying, but F_C and BigNose aren't looking great right now. F_C for arguing Harkonnen could be helpful to Fremen, and BigNose for continuing to ask for scumhunting without providing any thoughts on players himself. (Seeing his posts since I got my "minor ping" off Adacore and Mav put that into a new light.) BigNose also argued for a fairly simplistic setup, which isn't necessarily a scumtell, but certainly wasn't that helpful given the discussion up to that point.

I'd been willing to let this go as typical BigNose oddness until this:
BigNose wrote:I understand what both F_C and BXM are saying, but that vote is a little OTT in my books, but as this is D1 and we have little to go on, I'm not going to crircise it too much.
...
In the meantime, I'm going to do a MoA and

Vote: Mavketl

Alright, this is the second vote on Mav now with jokey meta-explanations and no other reasoning. And in this very post, he's casting doubt on BXM's vote, saying it was too much given the limited evidence against F_C. Err... yeah. Don't point out the sliver in another player's vote when you've got a log in your own.

Vote: BigNose

I'll unvote if you can explain to me what doing a MoA is and why it's something we should be doing with a week's worth of posting on the table. And on a related note, it would be nice if Lataro could show up and do something other than meta-vote, as well.
by Krong
Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:00 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90974

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Silknor, before I go into the rest of this, I kind of get what you're saying, and it kind of makes sense from the book. By a fairly early point in the book, the Harkonnens have taken over the capital city of Arrakeen, and the Atreides are a scattered minority, so it could make sense to have them and their supporters as the "townie" majority while the Atreides are the "scum" who must be hunted down.

The problem with this logic is that it's ignoring the central question of who has power from the nightkill, and I don't see how it makes sense from the flavor to have the Fremen/Atreides running around killing people while the Harkonnens sit peacefully by.

Also... why would you publicly raise this possibility if you're Atreides or Fremen? You'd either assume you're town, or think you may be a scum minority. In the first case, you're trying to convince us that Atreides/Fremen may be scummy, which doesn't make much sense; in the second, you'd rather have the Harkonnen majority assume they're a minority for as long as possible.

I feel like you're trying to figure out your place in this game as some sort of small independent/supportery faction member, doing a little bit of fishing for information. I suppose you could be pro-town, but it certainly sounds like you're not in the Fremen or Atreides faction.

IGMEOY: Silknor.
by Krong
Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:02 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90974

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Brooklynxman wrote:Let me sum up: Don't pull an ahippo.

Agreed. *shakes fist in ahippo's general direction*

Mav and Adacore: I did say it was pretty minor, and Mav, the restrained annoyance definitely might have accounted for some of the politeness I saw. :)

BigNose, regarding your faction spec: I don't think it's likely to be as simple as {Scum, SK, 1 or 2 Town Factions} at all. I understand that you don't know the flavor, but if you read the rolespec of others you'll see lots of possibilities for factions with varying degrees of townieness/scumminess. The Bene Gesserit, Corrino, CHOAM, etc.

Also, something that maybe hasn't been emphasized enough is that we've potentially got traitor characters around like Dr. Yueh and (kinda) Thufir Hawat, who may have two nearly-conflicting win conditions. Both of these characters definitely have pro-Atreides characteristics in the book, with Dr. Yueh giving the Duke the means to assassinate the Baron and Thufir Hawat starting out with the Atreides and... err... (avoiding spoiling the end for AMT), he does some good things later, too. However, Yueh helps the Harkonnens in their assault on the Atreides palace, and Thufir Hawat is captured and must stick with the Harkonnens to avoid death. Having conflicting win conditions like this might be why the mod decided to implement it as one/two wins instead of half/full wins.
by Krong
Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:02 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90974

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

BigNose: I read Dune maybe 6ish years ago, and have been using Wikipedia for a refresher.

I feel like this idea of most players having two win conditions is going to have a rather unfortunate side-effect D1: there's going to be more people hanging back to see what happens in order to keep both of their win conditions intact as long as possible. Even though technically losing one win condition doesn't interfere with one's ability to win the game, I think psychologically it will. By that I mean, if I have the two win conditions "Paul Atreides must survive" and "Eliminate House Harkonnen", I'll probably be less eager to lynch than I would if only the latter were my win condition.

Now, before I get sidetracked into thinking about game theory and the meaning of "one win or two wins" vs. "half a win or a full win" in a game where everything's made up and the points don't matter...

I got a minor ping from Adacore and Mavketl for their encouraging BigNose to scumhunt. It's not that BigNose shouldn't be scumhunting -- it's that we all should be as soon as we see something. It was very polite, in a "please, you first" sort of way, but it looks like they're hanging back a bit, especially since mister k had already made the few points contained in their two posts.

It's not much, but it's somewhere to start, along with Lataro's meta-vote.
by Krong
Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:46 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90974

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Dr Ug wrote:I would think sandworms are probably not in the game:
VectorZero wrote:And so it was that the harsh winds of Arrakis told of a new game, for those who were human and could sense it.
I read this as all the players are human.

I meant that they might be present as a game mechanic, not really as players. I can't see us stretching the flavor to the point that lynching a sandworm is reasonable.
by Krong
Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:29 pm UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90974

Re: Dune D1: Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice

Much silliness, Dr Ug. For one who's played the game, you really should read the book :P

Though it's been a few years, I really don't remember anything culty from the books, either, though as has been discussed around Paul / Muad'Dib, there might be some sort of pseudo town-recruit. I could see, for instance, Fremen trying to find him, at which point they might join him as masons.

The real reason there's a warning against massclaiming, I'd imagine, is that most of the players who'd normally want to massclaim (confirmed townies like Paul, Lady Jessica, etc.) are probably specific kill targets for other factions. Paul is a gimme Harkonnen target, and if there are other Bene Gesserit than Lady Jessica, they might be upset with what she's doing with her life.

Adacore wanted to know about the sandworms and thought they seemed dangerous. Well, very much both yes and no. Please consider reading the book before reading the following spoiler, as I thought it was the most surprising / interesting element of the story:
Spoiler:
Apologies if I'm not specific enough with any of this; it's mostly memory + Wikipedia:

The sandworms, or Makers, are incredibly powerful wild creatures that more or less take atomics (nuclear weapons) to kill. However, due to odd elements of their lifecycle, they are the source of the spice that makes Arrakis so valuable. The outsiders tend to travel over the sands by "thopter" when scouting for spice, because to do otherwise would be too dangerous.

Fremen treat the Makers with a great deal of respect, and have managed to develop techniques to avoid them while crossing the desert. They've also developed the more dangerous technique of hitching hooks into the worms and riding them through the sands.

In terms of game mechanics, if we have sandworms, they could very likely kill anyone who becomes closely involved with them. However, I don't think any faction would really want to see them gone.
by Krong
Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:08 am UTC
Forum: Mafia
Topic: Dune Game Over! Atreides/Fremen Victory!
Replies: 682
Views: 90974

Re: Dune Mafia: Pregame

Confirming.

Off-topic, for Dr Ug:
Spoiler:
Dr Ug wrote:It is in my list of top 10 games of all time. It created the RTS genre. Anyone who hasn't played it should play it.[/offtopic]

Any idea of a way for one to do so legally? Guessing it's pretty hard to find it and/or run it nowadays.

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