Search found 387 matches

by Trebla
Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:05 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Some Guy Freaks Out [formerly "Existential Dread"]
Replies: 132
Views: 32286

Re: Some Guy Freaks Out [formerly "Existential Dread"]

If a AI is to innovate and create a better computer what model would it use. How do you build a computer to do that? What is the next breakthrough. Is it the materials, the physics, the power requirements. And what is better? We build faster supercomputers so that "we" can do things with ...
by Trebla
Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:11 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Some Guy Freaks Out [formerly "Existential Dread"]
Replies: 132
Views: 32286

Re: Some Guy Freaks Out [formerly "Existential Dread"]

Poetry's a side effect, not the raison d'entre of the ability to use l-anguage. Without l-anguage, the ability to abstract may be impossible. But to produce novelty or innovation requires(I believe)that ability. Some emergent property may exist that could let a sufficiently complex system have that...
by Trebla
Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:56 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Some Guy Freaks Out [formerly "Existential Dread"]
Replies: 132
Views: 32286

Re: Some Guy Freaks Out [formerly "Existential Dread"]

But how do you program a machine to have a reason to look without a clearly defined goal. One of the things that language does for us is to give us the ability to lie. In it's purest sense that is a modeling mechanism. By being able to put in words a situation that has never occurred you tin create...
by Trebla
Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:30 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Some Guy Freaks Out [formerly "Existential Dread"]
Replies: 132
Views: 32286

Re: Some Guy Freaks Out [formerly "Existential Dread"]

Don't attach too much importance to those quotes. Amusing as they were I thinking of something much more subtle. I wasn't thinking so much of throwing virgins in volcanoes or going to heaven or heaven or hell, amusing as that thought is. What I'm thinking of is the creation of a new Mythos for the ...
by Trebla
Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:51 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Why is adultery legal?
Replies: 52
Views: 24703

Re: Why is adultery legal?

DSenette wrote:so, if you get a vasectomy, you're incapable of committing adultery


...in New Hampshire.
by Trebla
Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:12 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Some Guy Freaks Out [formerly "Existential Dread"]
Replies: 132
Views: 32286

Re: Some Guy Freaks Out [formerly "Existential Dread"]

How could you possibly think that you have any reason to believe that doubling the number of connections would present twice the intelligence? Or that the speed at which it happens matters? I accept that creating a human intelligence is possible, we exist. And that is all. I can point to a basic li...
by Trebla
Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:04 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Some Guy Freaks Out [formerly "Existential Dread"]
Replies: 132
Views: 32286

Re: Some Guy Freaks Out [formerly "Existential Dread"]

What drives the economy and technology? Growth. Do you disagree? Why would you believe that it could continue in perpetuity? Yet we glide blithely along. So what rational reason drives that belief. Support the idea that computing power can continue to increase in the future. We seem to running cloc...
by Trebla
Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:47 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Some Guy Freaks Out [formerly "Existential Dread"]
Replies: 132
Views: 32286

Re: Some Guy Freaks Out [formerly "Existential Dread"]

My interest is simple. Are we in the process of creating a God? Are we founding a new Religion? It has all the hallmarks of Christianity. Benevolent power figure who can guide us and make our lives better, prophesied to come to us in the unknown future. Not, is it God, but are we dealing with the u...
by Trebla
Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:32 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Some Guy Freaks Out [formerly "Existential Dread"]
Replies: 132
Views: 32286

Re: Some Guy Freaks Out [formerly "Existential Dread"]

So the idea that in some way the singularity and AI will liberate us is a form of blind faith. Akin to Religion. The idea can't be tested, and their is no way to make a prediction about it. It's like that teapot in orbit nears Mars. My curiosity was peaked by the thought, but I see that I am wastin...
by Trebla
Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:53 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Can a computer have free will?
Replies: 100
Views: 31498

Re: Can a computer have free will?

It's not that free will will have observable consequences. It's that when we see certain observable properties (relating to relative complexity and user interface), free will will become a reasonable way to encapsulate the way we think about those properties. I'm with jules, that whole post was wel...
by Trebla
Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:16 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Some Guy Freaks Out [formerly "Existential Dread"]
Replies: 132
Views: 32286

Re: Existential dread

Ha, yes, that is quite reassuring. Thank you. :D I'll read up, any good books you could reccomend? It sounds like you're interested in technological futures studies (though speculation may be a better term). A colleague recently turned me on to Ray Kurzweil , a futurist, as good reading. He's writt...
by Trebla
Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:57 pm UTC
Forum: Logic Puzzles
Topic: The truthteller and the politician
Replies: 65
Views: 26206

Re: The truthteller and the politician

"What would the politician say if I asked him 'Is the left one correct?'" Truthteller: "It depends. If the politician wants you to never find the correct road, he'd tell you that the left road is the correct one. If he wants me to look like a liar, he'd give the same answer that I'd ...
by Trebla
Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:36 pm UTC
Forum: Logic Puzzles
Topic: The truthteller and the politician
Replies: 65
Views: 26206

Re: The truthteller and the politician

This was covered above in one of the solutions: I'm a little slow... I actually had read the whole thing and then somehow managed to ignore it. You ask the truthteller: "Is the left one correct?" Answer: No. You ask the politician: "Is the left one correct?" Answer: Yes. The pol...
by Trebla
Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:55 pm UTC
Forum: Logic Puzzles
Topic: The truthteller and the politician
Replies: 65
Views: 26206

Re: The truthteller and the politician

How would the politician answer "Would the politician tell me that Left is correct?" How would the truthteller answer that same question? I guess the obvious answer is that the truthteller would say "I don't know"... in which case we'd need to allow the politician to also give t...
by Trebla
Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:16 pm UTC
Forum: Logic Puzzles
Topic: The truthteller and the politician
Replies: 65
Views: 26206

Re: The truthteller and the politician

This assumes it's unsolvable to prove it's unsolvable. The corollary only works if the puzzle has no solution I was partially being cheeky, yes the corollary only works if it is in fact unsolvable. I run into too many paradoxes, especially if we give the politician omniscience. How would the politi...
by Trebla
Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:52 pm UTC
Forum: Logic Puzzles
Topic: The truthteller and the politician
Replies: 65
Views: 26206

Re: The truthteller and the politician

The truthteller can't answer no to the question because the politician can make the puzzle solvable I think this really gets at the crux of the issue; thanks for giving me something to think about! Corollary: The truthteller can't answer "yes" to the question because the politician ca...
by Trebla
Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:43 pm UTC
Forum: What If?
Topic: What-if 0034: "Twitter"
Replies: 74
Views: 40018

Re: What-if 0034: Twitter

Kind of glossed over the math of calculating one eternal day = 10^32 years... That seems short to me. Assuming a perfect cone of 100 mile width at the base (50 mile radius) and 100 mile height, that's... 1/3 * pi * (50^2) * 100 = 262,000 cubic miles... 2.62 x 10^5. If we're extremely generous and le...
by Trebla
Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:52 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Superrationality
Replies: 73
Views: 16422

Re: Superrationality

You are of course thinking of total utility, when you should be thinking of individual agent's utility, as ultimately, that's the only thing that matters to anyone. cooperates | defects cooperates | -10 | -100 defects | +10 | -99 Cooperate/cooperate - you both live, but you know, they steal...
by Trebla
Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:55 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Superrationality
Replies: 73
Views: 16422

Re: Superrationality

so say if you decide to vandalise a car and you are a fairly typical person the chance someone would vandalise your car per year would be greater by say 1% rather than 100% The description of superrationality explicitly excludes causality between the two players (Which is another reason why MAD doe...
by Trebla
Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:49 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Superrationality
Replies: 73
Views: 16422

Re: Superrationality

I can't see superrationality as being a valid concept unless, like Iceman points out, you have perfect symmetry of all internal and external factors (the twins in the room have no concept of absolute direction, for instance). Further, internal perfect symmetry implies some element of causality. If i...
by Trebla
Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:20 pm UTC
Forum: Logic Puzzles
Topic: The truthteller and the politician
Replies: 65
Views: 26206

Re: The truthteller and the politician

Ask one of them about the program of the politician's party. If he doesn't know the program of said party or can explain to you what said program is, you've found the truthsayer. If he gives you a nonsense answer, he's a politician. Now that you know which one is which, the rest sho...
by Trebla
Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:58 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Can a computer have free will?
Replies: 100
Views: 31498

Re: Can a computer have free will?

Well, I think that this discussion is working towards suggesting answers to these questions. We don't need to start out answering them. E.g., the discussion about chess AIs is a discussion about whether a computer playing chess is a good answer to your first question. It may be, with the right expl...
by Trebla
Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:35 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Can a computer have free will?
Replies: 100
Views: 31498

Re: Can a computer have free will?

Just to get back away from the chess digression... What would it look like for a computer to have "free will"? What test (or tests) must it pass before we say "that is no longer a simple (arrangement of) stimulus response, that computer is now better described as having free will"...
by Trebla
Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:59 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Can a computer have free will?
Replies: 100
Views: 31498

Re: Can a computer have free will?

I don't think chess computers even go so far as looking for superior strategic positions per se . At its simplest, a chess algorithm is a program that looks at every possible available move and asks the question "After N moves, which of my current moves will give me the highest probability of ...
by Trebla
Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:39 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Superrationality
Replies: 73
Views: 16422

Re: Superrationality

Right, which supports the argument for superrationality. "Last to die" is the outcome (Nash equilibrium) under standard rationailty. The superrational outcome is that no one starts firing nukes in the first place. I think you read that sentence a bit backwards. I don't think so, the way I...
by Trebla
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:09 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Superrationality
Replies: 73
Views: 16422

Re: Superrationality

Anything that you can use to manipulate a person into behaving the way you want them to can be useful. So yes, the idea of superrationality could be useful to trick them into cooperating, but only if you're able to outwit them sufficiently. I'm kind of skeptical of this whole concept, the real world...
by Trebla
Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:38 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Can a computer have free will?
Replies: 100
Views: 31498

Re: Can a computer have free will?

Just out of curiosity, how would you describe current human free will differing from current computer free will (or current amoeba free will, or virus free will, or slug free will, but those are OT)? Maybe this question would be better in the free will thread, but since this one is specifically aski...
by Trebla
Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:40 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Definition of Free Will
Replies: 728
Views: 154036

Re: Definition of Free Will

That's where the analogies break. Many factors come into a choice. For each, numerous synapses are active. And afterwards countless synapses are active again. I find it absurd that there could be one central synapse in the process where the "choice" happens, but I can't prove it isn't the...
by Trebla
Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:09 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Definition of Free Will
Replies: 728
Views: 154036

Re: Definition of Free Will

It sure feels instantaneous, but then again our feeling about it is a post hoc rationalization of an unconscious process... Same as "there is a moment when the foot leaves the ground": at the molecular level there really isn't. How many molecular bindings count for being "in contact&...
by Trebla
Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:27 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Definition of Free Will
Replies: 728
Views: 154036

Re: Definition of Free Will

Seriously, can't you just say "only a complex system can make choices; the bits in it contribute to the choice, but they don't make choices themselves". Just like no part of your feet "walks": they merely form part of the process. I'm not convinced this is a good analogy. Walkin...
by Trebla
Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:51 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Religion: The Deuce
Replies: 5301
Views: 593426

Re: Religion: The Deuce

It's no problem if God is also sufficient for logic, or if (since the logical truths are necessary) everything is sufficient for logic. For there to be such thing as the back side of a piece of paper , it's necessary and sufficient that a piece of paper exist. But it's also necessary (and sufficien...
by Trebla
Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:00 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Religion: The Deuce
Replies: 5301
Views: 593426

Re: Religion: The Deuce

Are you making the case for logic being an "essence" to figure out what God would be if logic were ontologically prior to Him? I don't think I'm making such a case. Someone else made the case by claiming that God was "bound by logic." (presumably meaning was always bound by logi...
by Trebla
Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:03 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Religion: The Deuce
Replies: 5301
Views: 593426

Re: Religion: The Deuce

The "essence" side of things? Time is a creation, but not a thing? I'm not sure what sense this makes, and I'm not sure what it really has to do with what I said before. "Mutually exclusive properties cannot co-exist" is a tautology: to say that properties are mutually exclusive...
by Trebla
Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:52 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Religion: The Deuce
Replies: 5301
Views: 593426

Re: Religion: The Deuce

You speak of logic as if it is a thing , as if the fact that, say, [it can't be true that the sky is blue and the sky is not blue ] is true in virtue of the fact that a certain object, logic, exists and has certain properties. But I don't think many philosophers would view the situation this way, a...
by Trebla
Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:16 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Religion: The Deuce
Replies: 5301
Views: 593426

Re: Religion: The Deuce

As I said before, this is not the "standard Western description." Among the Medievals, Augustine, Anselm, and Aquinas all agree that there are things that God cannot do. Of course you're right that there is no single "standard." How does Anslem's "First Cause" stand up...
by Trebla
Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:47 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Religion: The Deuce
Replies: 5301
Views: 593426

Re: Religion: The Deuce

D.B. wrote:@Trebla

Whoa, really? I wasn't getting that at all from what was being said. Huh.

In which case the whole discussion is different, and my post is pretty moot.


Then again, maybe I'm reading sarcasm and undertones where there are none...
by Trebla
Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:14 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Religion: The Deuce
Replies: 5301
Views: 593426

Re: Religion: The Deuce

I think the problem is you are positing a god who is not bound by logic, and then others respond by pointing out that this causes logical inconsistencies, e.g. when we try to define chess. Well, yes, that would seem to be the case. But given we've already assumed (for this definition of omnipotence...
by Trebla
Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:31 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Religion: The Deuce
Replies: 5301
Views: 593426

Re: Religion: The Deuce

Yes, well, there's a section of the same work of Anselm's titled "How he is omnipotent, although there are many things of which he is not capable." Anselm's view is that it would be a defect in God if he could, for example, tell lies or enact contradictions. Others would say that a logica...
by Trebla
Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:19 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Religion: The Deuce
Replies: 5301
Views: 593426

Re: Religion: The Deuce

Hardly anyone who thinks that there is an omnipotent being thinks that omnipotence goes this far. I think you're arguing against a strawman. I also can't speak to what most people believe, but St. Anselm pretty much explicitly defined God as "the being than which no greater being can be concei...
by Trebla
Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:01 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Religion: The Deuce
Replies: 5301
Views: 593426

Re: Religion: The Deuce

i mean, if god is god, and he is omnipotent then why would he have to follow logical consistency? why couldn't he make a thing so heavy that he can't lift...and still lift it. the guy already acts outside of time, space, and reality, why would logical consistency have anything to do with him? I don...

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