The Forum Games Discussion Thread - Farming RPG Coming Soon

For all your silly time-killing forum games.

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Lawrencelot
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby Lawrencelot » Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:14 am UTC

Oh, actually with this part
but only if I am actually not struggling to find someone

I meant that I'm not enjoying the game if I have a hard time, not that I only like to hide. So I prefer easy challenges. I like your idea.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby Vytron » Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:21 pm UTC

What if to make it easier we restrict everyone to hide in some place? For instance "Where in the USA is X", then everyone hides in USA.

We should also make it specific that we don't want people just copying the questions of other people or something.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby Lawrencelot » Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:03 pm UTC

Nah, the first part is actually what I like most, it's the actual zooming in to street level where it becomes cumbersome.

If you do the A > B > C > A thing, it doesn't matter if people copy questions I think?

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby Vytron » Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:59 pm UTC

Lawrencelot wrote:If you do the A > B > C > A thing, it doesn't matter if people copy questions I think?


Well, at some point the questions will diverge. But in my opinion, part of the game is who is the best at splitting, this kind of gets lost if the first questions of the game are the same by everyone because they all copy the best splitter (but, you're right, this isn't probably critical, I'd still want some deterrent...)

...

Anyway, how about this:

You take 4 screenshots from Streetview, which are somewhat close to each other (we can put a limit of closeness in this), and people win if they find any of them. Should make the ending a bit easier because if one of the pictures is darn hard to find you can always find one of the other ones.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby username5243 » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:59 am UTC

Okay, 8TD has just ended (GAME OVER!) I think that, if anyone has an idea for a new moderated game, they should start soon because I believe that there should be several moderated games going on at the same time. (At least the ones I play in...)
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby Echo244 » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:42 pm UTC

If anyone's going to start a new game, I might be interested now Eight Tower Defense is over. Or there were a couple that popped up and kind of died (Roll to Dodge, Kings Vs. Rebels) that could be picked up by other people to mod... and if we really scrape the barrel, I could mod a game of Munchkin (though I have no idea how well that works over a forum).

Either that or I might throw my lot with the Quarry Defense crowd if that's still open, or god help me, try Mafia (though getting in to that would probably need to start with a really simple vanilla game).

Anyway, knowing if there's a plan for anyone to start anything would aid my decision. ;-D
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby faubiguy » Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:41 pm UTC

Both Anti-Aliased Assassins Are Angry and Thumbtacks 4.0 are still looking for sign-ups.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby Vytron » Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:37 pm UTC

Echo244 wrote:or god help me, try Mafia (though getting in to that would probably need to start with a really simple vanilla game).


Such a game has been created! :)

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby SDK » Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:05 pm UTC

Vytron, I was going to post this in the game thread, but then decided it might be more appropriate here.

Depending on how sign-ups go in the Mafia Intro game, would you like me to act as a mentor to the thread? I've never seen it done before, but I've often wondered about the possibility of having a neutral third-party, without knowledge of the setup, helping to steer the town in the right direction. I envision this as someone who doesn't give reads of their own, but answers questions honestly, including questions about strategy, scumtells, etc that the mod couldn't answer, or to help guide the game in a productive direction without doing any real work of his/her own. I'll leave it to you whether you want to experiment with that, but I think it would be helpful since a town full of newbies often is left unsure of where to start, which in my experience is the most frustrating thing for beginners. The other solution is to have one or two experienced players play the game, but that causes it's own problems. Anyway, up to you. I'd be happy to fill that role if you're interested in trying it.
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby Vytron » Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:35 pm UTC

I think it would be interesting to have some kind of Mentor Mafia, specifically designed with that in mind, later on. Specifically, there ought to be some kind of mafia setup that would help people get introduced with complex concepts. Say, there could be a Roleblocker, or Jail Keeper and the Mentor could give advice about those roles.

Probably for a larger number of people? After seeing games struggling to fill up I settled for 7, but probably a 10 player mafia would be workable.

One thing, though, I believe the Mentor should also give advice to mafia players, as actually, mafia roles are harder to play, and need more mentoring because the goal of town is to dicover who are they, but mafia players might not know what to do. This should work as long as the Mentor doesn't know who they are (so he gives advice to help both sides, instead of helping town.)

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby SDK » Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:40 pm UTC

In my experience, mafia members have an easier time of grasping mafia early on simply because they know how they fit into the game. They're got a partner. They've got a goal. They know who to trust. They make mistakes, for sure, but they still have fun even if they're losing. The same is not always true for newbie town, who get frustrated that they don't know how to play and don't know what to look for or do.
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby username5243 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:10 pm UTC

We're low on moderated games...I might start a card game or something soon, and other people may start other games...I might make a forum game design challenge to encourage new games soon.
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby Lawrencelot » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:24 pm UTC

Anyone wanna host a game of Haggle?

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby careyhammer » Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:38 am UTC

Does anyone want to host a game of Risk?
DUCK!

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby Vytron » Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:40 am UTC

I guess I'd be up for modding a game of Risk+Haggle, if someone can come up with ideas about game mixing, because that'd be an interesting project.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby Lawrencelot » Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:40 am UTC

Well in risk you have those cards that you can turn in to get reinforcements right? You could make them more important and use the rules of haggle for them

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby careyhammer » Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:37 am UTC

that sounds like a cool idea. We could be playing risk until someone wants to turn in cards, and then we play haggle to determine how many armies you get to place.
DUCK!

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby faubiguy » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:35 pm UTC

I decided to try to categorize various non-involved forum games based on their core characteristics. I came up with the following, as well as some examples of each. These categories are non-exhausitive, and there's probably some ambiguous games, but I think these cover as least a significant fraction of non-involved games.

Counting Games (Each post is the next number, using some representation):
  • Count to a Million
  • Count up in Binary
  • Count in base 4 (using xkcd)
  • Count using recursive prime factorization

Response to previous post (each post is a direct response to the previous; the state of the thread goes no more than a few posts back):
  • Corrupt a Wish
  • Guess the next Poster
  • Can you find [X] in less than 15 seconds?
  • Good news, bad news

Slowly tell a story (each post adds to the current text of a story):
  • One word at a time
  • Five word story
  • 400 characters
  • The endless run-on sentence

Mutation game (slowly changing something over the course of the thread):
  • Incredible changing sentence
  • Take a penny, leave a penny
  • Broken picture telephone
  • One letter word game

Post after some amount of time (you gain points based on the length of time between your post and the previous/next post):
  • Double post
  • Thread necromancy
  • Longest time as last post
  • Every hour, on the hour

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby username5243 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:30 pm UTC

What about "What is in your clipboard"?
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby faubiguy » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:39 pm UTC

Like I said, the list is non-exhaustive. "What is in your clipboard" is one of the games that doesn't fit into any of those categories.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby Lawrencelot » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:31 pm UTC

It's also not really a game

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby Znirk » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:58 am UTC

I've been thinking about offering a play-by-forum session of Fiasco (publisher's site, wikipedia). This is a prep-less, GM-less, storytelling-heavy, single-shot RPG which usually plays out in 2-3 hours face-to-face. If a forum game takes off, it would probably run its course in a month or so.

Obviously the only way to find out whether there's interest around here is to try it; but I have a different question: Fiasco games are geared towards bad-guy characters, and even so they will often run a bit dark. There are pretty much guaranteed to be violent and otherwise despicable acts in the in-character text, and naughty words are basically a given. The forum rules don't seem to prohibit that sort of thing outright; but could someone with a good sense of Forum Etiquette, or indeed with actual mod powers, give me an opinion on whether such in-character terrible behaviour would be acceptable (assuming I put a content warning in the thread title and/or the introductory post)?

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby Vytron » Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:52 am UTC

We're about to have a perfect Alphabetical Mafia game!

In such a game you pick a letter and make a name and something with it, like "Terry the Teacher", and a special role will be created for you!

The letters K, N, U and Y are still available, and you're welcome to pick one and join!

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread: Join a mafia game!

Postby Vytron » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:38 pm UTC

We're down to two letters! We can do this! K and Y still available!

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Re: One Player Needed!

Postby Vytron » Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:00 am UTC

One player more needed for Smalltown Werewolf PYP!

This is a great game if you haven't played mafia before, as it's hard to find another game of this caliber that gives you so much experience!

K is still available, and people have been posting names you could use with it!

Karl the Kris Kringle
Kelley the Kookaburra Trainer
Katherine the Kindergarten Teacher
Kevin the Kindhearted Killer Whale
Katherine the Knot Theorist
Killian the Knight-Errant
Kaidan the King of the Kestrels
Kevin the King
Kayla the Kleptomaniac
Kaitlyn the Kangaroo Keeper
Kennedy the Kite-flyer
Kyle the Kidnapper
Kelly the Kindly Kitten
Krista the Kickboxer
Kazuyuki the Kung-fu Koala
Kanako the Kooky Cook
Kaylee the Kick-ass Engineer (sorry, couldn't resist)
Kapalei the Kenyan
Kodai the Kappa
Kris the Knocking shop Owner

Also, if you want to be Heather the Hospital Administrator, you can switch roles with Van!

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby Vytron » Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:11 pm UTC

Phew! We did get all 26 players!

I have no idea if the adverts on here did anything, but there you go!

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby username5243 » Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:28 pm UTC

There's a newbie mafia game that I set up, in the same spirit as Vytron's games. Feel free to play.

Also, I made a haggle game, so if you want to, sign up there.
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Forum Games Discussion Thread: Nomic

Postby emlightened » Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:15 am UTC

Some of the recent Nomic games have been popular, but most of them haven't actually gotten off the ground. I'm wanting to attempt to create a Nomic that has several rules pre-made, so that theplayers can get to a chunk of the gameplay.

I'm thinking of having a setup thread, open for roughly a week, where players can change the rules as in a Normal Nomic, and after that time a new thread opens with the actual gameplay in (rules can still be changed). I'm not planning on there being any moderating, except for the creation of the game thread after the setup thread.

I'm wanting some input on how many rules should be premade, and if any should be changed/removed before the setup thread goes up. And I'd also like to know if you'd be interested, or think it wouldn't work.

Spoiler:
As the recent Nomic games have been popular, but haven't actually evolved into much gameplay, I've decided to try a different approach.

The rules are split into two sections: Nomic and In-World. In-World rules will not come into effect in this thread, but come into effect in a new thread, to be created in roughly a week. The rest of the rules apply.

If you were following/playing the most recent thread, then most of these rules will be familiar.

Nomic Rules:
  1. A "player" is defined as any human being who wants to participate in this game.
  2. Players may make proposals to modify, add, or remove rules.
  3. Proposals, unless stated otherwise in the rules, are passed when there are three votes for it, and the rules get changed accordingly. If it gets three votes against, then it fails and the rules are not changed.
  4. Players may vote either for or against, or abstain from proposals.
  5. A player proposing a proposal is assumed to vote for it.
  6. A post created after another post by the same player is not counted as a post in rules which state an action occurs after each post. Similarly, any action referencing the post number in these posts is ignored.
  7. If a player has voted on a proposal previously, they may change their vote by simply stating the new vote.
  8. The player who proposed a rule may retract the proposal at anytime before it is passed. A retracted proposal immediately fails.
  9. There is a proposal called 'Ready?' that cannot fail. When passed by more than one vote, I will create the game. All players are assumed to vote against it, until otherwise stated.
  10. Players should use their common sense in in-world actions.

In-World Rules:
  1. Players may own items, and a currency called 'Gold'.
  2. Each player starts with owning 1000 Gold.
  3. Players may decide to trade items or currency with each other at a given price. Both players must confirm the transaction in the game thread for it to take effect.
  4. A player who double posts is penalized 100 gold for each double post. This is taken out of the player's Gold, and then from the Gold they've stored with the Banker if they have less than 100 Gold.
  5. There are several classes of items. Common items may be bought from any Shopkeeper, Rare items are in somewhat limited supply and may only be bought when certain conditions are met and Unique items only have one copy in the game.
  6. The suggestions for the first 15 Common Items, 5 Rare Items, and 2 Unique Items proposed are automatically accepted, with a limit of 6 automatically accepted items per player. They may still be altered/removed with proposals, though.
  7. A suggestion for an item must consist of the item's name, any special effects, its class, and its buy price if Common, or its buy price, sell price, and availability as relevant otherwise.
  8. There are Locations in the game; each player may only be an one location at any time. Players start the game at the location "Generic Village".
  9. NPCs (Non-Player-Characters) exist, and the player may give them gold, items or service in order to get gold, items or service, as predetermined by the NPC.
  10. NPCs always stay in the same location, unless otherwise stated, and may only be interacted with when at that location.
  11. Unnamed NPCs exist at all locations that have "Village" in their name, unless otherwise stated.
  12. Any transaction may only take place if the player owns sufficient Gold (not counting that with the banker) or the selected item.
  13. There exists a type of event called a 'Quest' (Q). Quests are available to all players by default, and no prior requirements exist unless otherwise stated. The creation of a Quest is treated as a proposal, as are all modifications to it. A Quest must give a reward to whoever completes it, and contains Obstacles.
  14. An Obstacle is a segment of a quest that players either need to Request to pass, or are equivalent to a Job.
  15. A Job may be given by some NPCs (or a Quest). It specifies task(s) (e.g. killing a demon, clearing a pathway, mining a ruby, etc.) that are completed through some specified mechanic (e.g combat, mining, etc.). When all of the tasks have been done, the Job is completed, and the NPC gives some reward/Quest can be continued further. A Job, and its component tasks, can only be completed once, unless otherwise specified.
  16. Requests are made by a player to do an in-world action that doesn't contradict any rule, but is also not specifically allowed. Requests are treated as Quick Proposals, but with the deadline extended to the user's next post if that time period is greater than 24h, and only needing a single for vote to pass after 24h.
  17. Once a player has done a request, one of the players who voted in favour of that action may say if anything went wrong with the request. (e.g. 'You swam halfway to Pruth Island, but ended up getting hypothermia in the cool waters. After shouting for help, a ship pulls you up, and you are brought back to Generic Village.')
  18. Any location with 'Village' in its name is considered a Village.
  19. Locations are either on the mainland, islands, or on an island. Any location with 'Island' in the name is considered an island; all other locations are on the mainland unless otherwise stated.
  20. Players are required to pay a Boatist to access an island from the mainland and vice versa, or must own a boat to do so.
  21. Actions are assumed to be bounded by physics, unless something magical is stated to be at work.
  22. A player can 'die'. Dying changes their location to Generic Village, sets their Gold to 0, and any items being used actively at the time of death are lost (this things like your pickaxe when mining, or diving gear when underwater), as well as items collected during that action (loot off combat, gems off mining, etc.). Unique items lost in this way may appear elsewhere after dying.

[Combat mechanics determined solely in thread]

[Mining mechanics determined solely in thread]

World state: (what items exist, etc.)
  • The following Locations exist: Generic Village, Pruth Island, Firey Mountain (on Pruth Island), Desert Ruins, Ocean Monument (only accessible via Pruth island), Windfall Acres (Village), Aravice Place (Island) and Corrupted Valley. Unless otherwise stated, they are all on the mainland.
  • A Shopkeeper is a type of NPC. A player is able to buy any common item from then at the shown price, and sell common items to them at 80% of that price. Rare and Unique items may only be bought or sold based on other factors.
  • A blacksmith is a type of NPC. You are able to buy and sell metals, metal items and tools with them (sold at 90% price for tools and metal items, 100% price for metals).
  • A Boatist is a type of NPC. Boatists exist on all islands. The standard fee for requesting a Boatist's services is 80 Gold; this may vary as specified.
  • Quset: The Lost Tablet:
    • The quest is in the Firey Mountain.
    • In the Firey Mountain, there exists the 'Tablet of the Cold Flame', a Unique item. This item grants the owner [combat bonuses], and supplies them with a Cold Flame each post (except double posts). With it, there lies an Osmium Bar, and four Steel Bars.
    • The obstacles are:
      • The Classic 'Pit of Spikes': A 60ft corridor of large osmium-tipped spikes, each about a foot from each other, able to impale someone easily. The ceiling is several yards above the spikes, and the walls slope slightly outwards. The wall rock is mostly stable, and the area is not well-lit. And, for some reason, the spikes are submerged in a pool of concentrated sulfuric acid.
      • The Thirty Foot Chasm: A chasm, misleadingly, only 29ft wide. The opposite side is a couple of foot lower, and a rope ladder is bundled up at the other side. It is unknown what lies at the bottom, except for some corpses, probably. It is impossible to go around. You are worried about being able to get back, but a bit of lateral thinking should help. At least there's no sulfuric acid this time.
      • The Steep Incline with Extra Zombies: [A combat job. Please define after a combat system is created.]


Suggestions on what to skim down on in the rules (and any other feedback) are much appreciated.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby faubiguy » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:08 pm UTC

I think the only rules a game of nomic should start with are rules on proposals and the ruleset itself, with any other mechanics created purely though the game, though I definitely think we should have a standard-ish initial ruleset covering that.

One thing I've noticed here is that there have been a lot of games of pure nomic, with as few starting rules as possible (often just one), It sounds good in theory, since it allows the nomic itself to create *all* the rules, but there a few problems with that approach. One is that the initial rules are poorly defined. For example, usually exactly what a proposal or player means isn't explained at all and is assumed to be the same as in previous nomics, which makes it hard for new players to figure out what's going on. It also means each game eventually ends up with a somewhat to completely different mechanism for rules and proposals, and by the time a good ruleset for that is created many potential players have already lost interest.

With effective rules for changing the ruleset right when the game begins, other rules (such as for points, items, gold, etc.) can easily be created in the game itself. I think one essential thing for this is no limit for proposals, and no limit to how many ruleset changes or other game changes can be in a single proposal. Proposal limits (either in amount or possible content) is something a lot of games have adopted, but it usually seems to end up slowing things down unnecessarily and making it harder to accomplish things (for example, if single proposal can only add or remove one rule, its impossible to create a rule which replaces an older one with one proposal, or to add multiple rules at the same time which depend on each other). My preferred definition for a proposal is for it to be a piece of text describing one or more actions affecting the game state to be applied if it passes, which includes any changes to the rule set, but can also include changes to other things like players or items.

Another thing I think needs to be included from the beginning is a voting system that scales based on the number of active players. This adds a bit of complexity with keeping track of last post time or something similar, but ultimately I think it's needed to keep the game from either dying when there's not enough players to pass anything, or it becoming too easy to pass things once a lot of players join. In the past the default vote limit to pass a proposal has usually started as 3, I think in an attempt to be as simple as possible with the expectation that it would be changed to something more useful later, but in a lot of the games here the rule limit has remained at 3 the whole time as a more complete system of rules is built around the initial proposal mechanism.

Some structure for the rules, such as grouping or sub-rules, would also be useful for making it easier to understand what's going on once the ruleset has expanded to a fairly large number, but I'm not sure the best way to accomplish this, or if its better to include in a set of standard rules or to just allow it to be created in games like most rules.

None of the above precludes the idea of a a setup thread for creating additional game specific rules, but I still think a beginning ruleset to be used by default for all forum nomic games is a good idea.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby orangedragonfire » Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:35 pm UTC

I agree that any starting ruleset of a game of Nomic should only contain rules that deal with the ruleset. The point of the game is that it can go anywhere, and if you start with Gold or something like that already introduced, you severely limit where the game might be headed.

Having a decent starting ruleset is a good idea. We do seem to go through a similar set-up phase in each Nomic game, though, since there seem to be some fairly common ways we want the game to behave. This includes the ability to propose and retract rules, to vote for and against motions as well as abstain and change your vote; and usually a majority to accept any rule. This isn't required, of course, you can have fun with different ways of accepting motions, such as we had in Nomy.

Also, older Nomic games such as Nomic 16.0 had a much more formal language than the current Nomic games. Not sure whether that actually has any impact on how long the game lasts.

Anyway, standard guideline ruleset rough sketch proposal thing:

- Anybody who posts in this thread is considered a player of this game of Nomic. A player is considered active if they posted in the thread in the last week.
- A motion is a piece of text which defines changes to the ruleset or the state of the game.
- Any player may propose motions. They are assumed to vote for their own motions.
- Each player has one vote for each motion. A vote may be for, against or abstaining from the motion. Players may change the their vote at any time before the motion has passed or failed.
- A motion passes if more than half of the active players vote for it and fails if half of the active players vote against it. When a motion passes the effects it describes are acted upon.

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faubiguy
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby faubiguy » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:04 pm UTC

I have no disagreement with any of those.

A few more rules that I think would be good to start with are

- Each motion should be given a unique name to refer to it by.
- A player who has submitted a motion which has not passed or failed may retract it, causing it to immediately fail.
- In the event that two rules conflict, the lower-numbered rule takes precedence.
- All motions, retractions of motions, and votes on motions should be posted in bold in order to be valid.
- Any post that violates the rules will have no effect, except as otherwise specified by another rule.

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emlightened
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby emlightened » Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:39 pm UTC

Thanks guys. I've just had a quick scan through the two linked threads.

The idea was to introduce an in-world ruleset that could be edited at will aforehand, but that really belongs more in a RPG-Nomic-hybrid type game, which I'm not really trying to achieve.

I've only recently joined, and all of the Nomics I've seen have been very pure, particularly the first one, or not lasted half a page. I think I'll make a Nomy game. The rules are pretty much what you've supplied below, but with alterations to make it more like the Nomy game.

"Therefore it is in the interests not only of public safety but also public sanity if the buttered toast on cats idea is scrapped, to be replaced by a monorail powered by cats smeared with chicken tikka masala floating above a rail made from white shag pile carpet."

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Vytron
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread & Involved Games List

Postby Vytron » Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:24 pm UTC

I do like the idea of some sort of infinite series of Nomic games where each one lasts a week, and in where the rules of the next Nomic are discussed on the current one, but the new rules introduced don't need to be followed on the current Nomic.

It could be...

InfiNomic 0.0 - This one only has the set of base rules one can agree with beforehand, but that's the only rules you need to follow. For a week you dedicate to formulate the "In-World Rules" that will be used on the next game. I think that it's very important, for this to work, that the "In-World Rules" start empty, though emlightened's "In-World Rules" work as a great example of what to expect.

InfiNomic 1.0 - This one follows the base rules, plus the "In-World Rules" as stated on 0.0, and lasts for a week. In this game the players decide what rules carry out to 2.0, and which ones don't. Plus, players decide how long 2.0 will last.

InfiNomic 2.0 - With the "In-World Rules" of 1.0 and with 3.0 possibly not happening at all if it's decided 2.0 lasts until some condition is meet and 2.0 never meets that condition, etc.

And so on.

I don't know if it'd be good to create a new thread for each one, or if it'd suffice to just update the number on the title for this on a single thread.

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faubiguy
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby faubiguy » Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:28 pm UTC

That gives me the idea of a sort of branching nomic, where it starts with a single thread, then after some period of time (or other condition) splits into two threads with the rules at that points which from then on evolve separately. Those threads could even split themselves, though I don't think that would work with the activity levels we have.

For the long term, some sort of system where each week one of the two threads is voted as the winner and the other one closed, then the winning thread itself splits into two new ones. Still probably wouldn't work, but its an interesting idea.

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emlightened
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby emlightened » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:08 pm UTC

I think that both of those could work, but the Infinomic could get a bit confusing with respect to the multiple rulesets if it's all on the same thread. The branching Nomic would also work, but should probably leave the option of both threads being open, in the case of them both being popular (and the losing thread just being retitled into a normal Nomic).

My other concern is that the Nomics might look daunting to new players, if they're all part of a master game tree.

In fact, if it would work, one of those could be added into the current Nomy game, if it was accepted by most players.

"Therefore it is in the interests not only of public safety but also public sanity if the buttered toast on cats idea is scrapped, to be replaced by a monorail powered by cats smeared with chicken tikka masala floating above a rail made from white shag pile carpet."

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orangedragonfire
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby orangedragonfire » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:13 pm UTC

InfiNomic doesn't all have to be in one thread, though. There could be a new thread for each version.

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faubiguy
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby faubiguy » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:14 pm UTC

I think it would be nice to have a single ongoing game of nomic over a period of more than a month. The ruleset would have to be kept simple enough for new players to join, perhaps by some sort of rule grouping and by keeping any one game mechanic from becoming too complex, as well as regular refactors to the rules keeping the same meaning but simplifying and consolidating things that were originally proposed separately.

The general end state I've seen for nomics here is that there are few to no new players, and eventually the players that were there from the beginning leave, so other ideas on how to keep that from happening in nomics in general would be useful.

Edit: It looks like Nomic 16.0 had a decently long run, so it would probably be a good idea to see what factors caused it to be more successful than other nomics.

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emlightened
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby emlightened » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:35 pm UTC

The simplest way to help include new players is to have a fairly small ruleset (the current one for Nomy would probably be a little daunting for a new player, so categorization is probably key) and possibly also incentives that give an in-world headstart ('the next player to join this game automatically gets 50 Gold', say).

I think that regular rule resetting/simplifying should aways be able to let new players come in, and wouldn't stop old players from coming back after leaving; that sort of thing isn't very possible in a normal game of nomic, but if it were to renew itself, then a series of everlasting nomics could work. I'm not too sure if there's a trick to keep players playing though, it might just be how much is happening at once (16 had chess and animal adoption running together alongside everything else near the end.)

"Therefore it is in the interests not only of public safety but also public sanity if the buttered toast on cats idea is scrapped, to be replaced by a monorail powered by cats smeared with chicken tikka masala floating above a rail made from white shag pile carpet."

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Vytron
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby Vytron » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:16 am UTC

faubiguy wrote:Edit: It looks like Nomic 16.0 had a decently long run, so it would probably be a good idea to see what factors caused it to be more successful than other nomics.


From what I've seen from other games, if Nomic is like them, is that the success depends on the players and the game's structure. I see Snark and orangedragonfire were the ones providing the building blocks of that Nomic, I... I think we could invite them to some project or something (ODF is already participating in Nomy 2.0.)

About faubiguy's proposal: What about competing Nomics? We have 2 groups of players and they do their best to have the most successful and fun Nomic. After a thread's page (after the ending of each page or some other time segment) players, individually, and without knowing the decisions of others, my decide if they remain on their Nomic or if they "jump" to the other one. And the losing Nomic, the one that closes, is the one that has all players, or all players but one, jumping to the other Nomic. Which presumably is a great one since all players would rather be in there.

(also, it turns out I have more fun discussing these things than actually playing Nomic :mrgreen: )

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faubiguy
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby faubiguy » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:58 pm UTC

I just had the idea for a sort of code nomic. The ruleset would be code running on a computer, that holds the data representing the game state and interprets posts according to its rules. A proposal would be a proposal to update the code, which would automatically be applied by the code itself if it passes (by scanning the thread and looking for votes, for example). It would probably have to be separated into a backend part that handles the low level thread scanning and database updating, and a frontend API that can easily be hooked into to add new rules (for example, "if a post causes a proposal to pass, then add 3 to the authors points"). Of course the backend stuff would also be changeable if we wanted to (just as the rules for making and interpreting rules can be changed in a normal nomic).

The main issues I can see with it are (1) we would need a computer to run it on with a stable internet connection (2) there are some security issues with automatically accepting code from the internet, and (3) people who have ideas which would be proposed as rules in a normal nomic wouldn't necessarily be able to code their ideas.

Edit: The computer would also be able to serve as an impartial moderator, for sub-games with imperfect information which a nomic usually can't support without appointing a player as moderator. I've actually considered re-purposing faubibot for moderating games, but never got around to writing anything for that due to a lack of many games that need moderation but are simple enough to moderate that a computer can. It might still be worthwhile to do though if it allows such games to be played more often (e.g. if the moderation is tedious enough that human moderators don't want to, but a computer can).


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