The Forum Games Discussion Thread - Farming RPG Coming Soon

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Vytron
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby Vytron » Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:41 am UTC

That's weird.

So, phpBB comes with a limit of 63536 out of the box, and someone on the xkcd forums thought "that's 3536 too many", and went through all the job needed to change the number to 60k...

It'd be funny if the actual limit is 63536 but it's rounded down in the error message.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby SDK » Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:50 am UTC

I'd say it's about time for science!
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby patzer » Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:52 am UTC

Why on earth would they make the character limit 63536?

65536 would make sense, because it's 216. But 63536 seems to be an arbitrary number. :/
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby SDK » Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:54 am UTC

Yep, 60000 to the digit.
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby Vytron » Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:03 am UTC

I'm fairly certain that the limit of the field used to store the body of the post is actually 65536, but someone made a typo.

Also, I wonder if it can be raised, as it's possible this is a technical limitation of the forum system.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby faubiguy » Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:39 pm UTC

The limit the forum says it has is 60000 character limit, but the server gives an HTTP 502 Bad Gateway error above a number between 10000 to 15000.

Edit: The exact character limit after which the server gives a 502 appears to be 10456.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby faubiguy » Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:39 pm UTC

For the Mercatores moderator bot, I have the following done now:
  • phpBB client code
  • Loop through new posts and perform actions based on patterns
  • Almost all of the actions (buy, sell, offer, loan, upgrade office, etc.)
  • Database schema
  • Most of the game state summary post
  • Most of the action performed upon new turns

What's left to do:
  • Myth powers / current events
  • "Offer {items} to {god}" action
  • Myth powers section of game state post
  • Current prices section of game state post
  • Default on loan behavior
  • Database setup script

The myth powers are going to be the hardest thing to add, because they can pretty much alter any other action. For the loan default behavior, I'm not sure exactly what to put (there was some discussion of it last game, but it didn't ever happen).

Edit: None of it's tested yet, though, so it'll probably take quite a lot of debugging before its working properly

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby Lawrencelot » Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:02 pm UTC

Sounds good!

Why don't you make a test thread for debugging? I'm sure no one would mind if you put in the first post what you're testing. I'd be happy to help out where needed.

We could also play without myth powers but add some other mechanic, like travel time, or supply and demand, or something else.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby faubiguy » Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:52 pm UTC

A test thread sounds good. I'll post it once I get the code to the point where it can fully run.

The myth powers that just change prices in a given region or for a given item would be pretty easy to implement. I might add just those ones and maybe also include some other mechanic (like travel time or supply and demand as you mentioned).

Do you have an idea how those mechanics might actually work, or are they just ideas that fit the theme?

Having items each be at a specific office and be moved around seems like it could be interesting, but I'm not sure how that would best be done without being too annoying or too different from the original.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby Vytron » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:19 am UTC

faubiguy wrote:The limit the forum says it has is 60000 character limit, but the server gives an HTTP 502 Bad Gateway error above a number between 10000 to 15000.

Edit: The exact character limit after which the server gives a 502 appears to be 10456.


Strange, SDK just managed to post 60000 1s on the other thread.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby faubiguy » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:28 am UTC

The lack of line breaks in my test seems to have caused the difference in outcomes.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby Vytron » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:42 am UTC

Nice! So you discovered the hidden "10456" limit for "characters in a row." I wonder if patzer will be sad that this is not a power of 2.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby patzer » Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:01 am UTC

Vytron wrote:Nice! So you discovered the hidden "10456" limit for "characters in a row." I wonder if patzer will be sad that this is not a power of 2.


Sad? No. Bemused? Yes.

Googling it only reveals that 10456 is the U.S. zip code for the Bronx.

While 63536 could easily have been a typo for 65536, I cannot fathom why 10456 would have been chosen. It's not an obvious typo. Might just be an easter egg inserted by phpBB's coders.
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby faubiguy » Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:14 am UTC

It doesn't seem to be an intentional limit (no error message besides an HTTP 502), but I'm not sure what would cause that.

Edit: I was curious, so I installed phpbb on my computer and tested it myself. On my install the limit was 8174, so it seems to vary by some factor. Oddly enough, the cause is a segfault in the server process (probably the php subprocess)

Excerpt from /var/log/httpd/error_log:

Code: Select all

[Tue Dec 15 19:34:33.426291 2015] [core:notice] [pid 1220] AH00052: child pid 24457 exit signal Segmentation fault (11)
[Tue Dec 15 19:34:34.456774 2015] [core:notice] [pid 1220] AH00052: child pid 24505 exit signal Segmentation fault (11)
[Tue Dec 15 19:40:28.816868 2015] [core:notice] [pid 1220] AH00052: child pid 24862 exit signal Segmentation fault (11)
[Tue Dec 15 19:40:37.825334 2015] [core:notice] [pid 1220] AH00052: child pid 4984 exit signal Segmentation fault (11)
[Tue Dec 15 19:40:45.833694 2015] [core:notice] [pid 1220] AH00052: child pid 21904 exit signal Segmentation fault (11)
[Tue Dec 15 19:41:27.873642 2015] [core:notice] [pid 1220] AH00052: child pid 30572 exit signal Segmentation fault (11)
[Tue Dec 15 19:41:35.882589 2015] [core:notice] [pid 1220] AH00052: child pid 17883 exit signal Segmentation fault (11)
[Tue Dec 15 19:41:59.906592 2015] [core:notice] [pid 1220] AH00052: child pid 24456 exit signal Segmentation fault (11)
[Tue Dec 15 19:42:22.930358 2015] [core:notice] [pid 1220] AH00052: child pid 26612 exit signal Segmentation fault (11)
[Tue Dec 15 19:42:31.938934 2015] [core:notice] [pid 1220] AH00052: child pid 26652 exit signal Segmentation fault (11)

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby Vytron » Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:44 am UTC

This is now a thing.

People should make sure to let phpBB admins know about this issue, so they figure out what's their... Faubiguy Factor. Or something.

The xkcd forums are now winning with a Faubiguy Factor of 10456.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby Lawrencelot » Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:55 am UTC

faubiguy wrote:A test thread sounds good. I'll post it once I get the code to the point where it can fully run.

The myth powers that just change prices in a given region or for a given item would be pretty easy to implement. I might add just those ones and maybe also include some other mechanic (like travel time or supply and demand as you mentioned).

Do you have an idea how those mechanics might actually work, or are they just ideas that fit the theme?

Having items each be at a specific office and be moved around seems like it could be interesting, but I'm not sure how that would best be done without being too annoying or too different from the original.

Actually, I'm not sure if travel time would be a good idea, I liked the way time worked last time. But for supply and demand you could have each territory produce and consume goods (making sure that total production = total consumption for each good), and change prices according to some formula. For example: Roma produces 5 grain but consumes 20, and when it becomes negative (more demand than supply) the prices to sell grain to Roma increase a lot. Aegyptus produces 20 grain but consumes 5, so there it becomes more and more profitable to buy grain.

But I don't think it's necessary to include this if you include myth powers, it would make everything more complicated.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby faubiguy » Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:03 am UTC

I'm probably not going putting any extra mechanics in.

I have all of the bot code done now, so I just need to do the setup script and default database values (items, prices, offices, myth_powers, etc.). I'm going to be a bit busy tomorrow, but I should have a test thread up by Friday. Expect lots of bugs at first, of course, but after a bit of testing it should be ready to play a real game using some time next week.

Once I have everything done I'll put the code up on GitHub so people can reuse it and also help find bugs or submit changes if they're so inclined.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby faubiguy » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:34 pm UTC

As stated, I've put the code on GitHub. Be aware that my code is not very pretty and there's almost no comments.

(I posted this in the test thread, but I'm also putting it here since it's less likely to get lost in all the posts)

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby thecamoninja » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:33 am UTC

Sup guys! I'm on winter break so I'm anticipating having enough free time to devote to forum games for the next few weeks. I might disappear again around mid-January, though. You guys know I can never really quit you, though :D

I've been thinking of trying to implement a modified version of Seven Spies with free and open player-to-player messaging via PM/spoiler, and mod-posts roughly every 24 hours updating trades, door unlocks, and kills. Would anyone be interested in trying it out?

(I also definitely remember having some really cool ideas for a new science game, but I think that was like 1.5 to 2 years ago at this point so I doubt it'll happen)
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby faubiguy » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:41 am UTC

I'd be interested in that.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby Vytron » Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:14 pm UTC

Hey Camo!

thecamoninja wrote:I've been thinking of trying to implement a modified version of Seven Spies with free and open player-to-player messaging via PM/spoiler, and mod-posts roughly every 24 hours updating trades, door unlocks, and kills. Would anyone be interested in trying it out?


Yeah.

Also, did you take a look at the alias system that faubiguy/me were interested in using for this attempted iteration of the game? IIRC it was a way to to have open player-to-player messaging without being able to know who's communicating with who, but only 3 players signed up.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby thecamoninja » Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:43 pm UTC

What I mean by "free and open player-to-player messaging via PM/spoiler" is that the players all take care of it themselves without any mod interaction. I might have free time, but I'm not really willing to devote as much as I used to to modding anymore, so I'm going for work-light games/variants :P . I think that a system using @player spoilers could work quite well, whereby players know who seems to be communicating with whom, but have no idea what's in the message. It would simply lead to a different sort of metagame. Alternatively, if you don't want people seeing who you talk to, there's always PMs. The one thing this systems eliminates is sending anonymous message, aliased messages, and messages impersonating other people. I know some players were pretty fond of that, but I was never necessarily attached to it.
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby faubiguy » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:03 pm UTC

I wouldn't be able to do it in time for this game, but for future ones I might be able to adapt the mercatores moderator bot to work for seven spies (which would handle all the sending messages back and forth, and keep track of which players have which keys, etc.).

My overall goal for the bot is to make the code extensible enough to write a plugin for handling any game (at least games that don't require human judgment to moderate), though that's more long term.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby Vytron » Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:24 am UTC

To me, receiving messages from people that weren't who they claimed and seeing the codes people came up with and stuff was a core part of Seven Spies. Though now that you mention it, this may have been a thing from the mod perspective (as spectator who can see everything going on) and not from the player perspective...

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby thecamoninja » Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:03 am UTC

I agree that the duplicity was a big part of the game, and I do kind of wish there was a way to preserve it. The game I'm proposing would definitely end up very different from the original iterations, even if it were dressed up in the same flavor and stemming from the same concept. The problem was always just that it was a big pain in the ass from a mod's perspective to compile everything each round.

I'm of the opinion in general that games which require less mod involvement exhibit good design by definition (not that requiring a mod is bad design, but if you make a game that doesn't need one but retains some complexity then you've probably done a good job). The main problem is that it's very difficult to have true hidden information in a forum setting like this, there has to be one person who knows what's going on with everyone to make sure everything doesn't get fucked up (and to a lesser extent to keep people honest). I guess you could say this idea of cutting the mod out of communication between players comes from this design principle.

faubiguy wrote:I wouldn't be able to do it in time for this game, but for future ones I might be able to adapt the mercatores moderator bot to work for seven spies (which would handle all the sending messages back and forth, and keep track of which players have which keys, etc.)

A bot that was capable of doing the task would be awesome, and seven spies is certainly simpler to run that Mercatores in terms of variables to keep track of and commands available to players.
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby mindy » Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:34 am UTC

To preserve said duplicity, perhaps every message post in the thread should be made from one secondary account, which all players would have access to.

This account could serve that purpose; you may send a private message to discover its password. Use this information as you wish.
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread

Postby Vytron » Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:02 am UTC

This thread is now a restaurant, bar and grill too.

Hello, I'm your barman. Feel free to request anything.

Spoiler:
(anything that can be delivered in a forum thread over the internet, anyway)

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread Restaurant Bar & Grill

Postby 12obin » Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:35 am UTC

I'll take a picture of a white kitten, please.
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread Restaurant Bar & Grill

Postby faubiguy » Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:42 am UTC

I'd like a plate of █████ with a side order of ██████.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread Restaurant Bar & Grill

Postby Vytron » Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:46 am UTC

12obin wrote:I'll take a picture of a white kitten, please.


I hope this one does it!

Image

faubiguy wrote:I'd like a plate of █████ with a side order of ██████.


Sorry, apparently I got your order in a top secret document and my rank isn't high enough to read it!

You can have some █████ and put it in your ██████, though :P

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread Restaurant Bar & Grill

Postby orangedragonfire » Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:25 pm UTC

One roleplaying game, please.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread Restaurant Bar & Grill

Postby emlightened » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:09 pm UTC

Make that double. Edit: Please?

Also, could you pass the white kitten picture over here when you're done please, 12obin?
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread Restaurant Bar & Grill

Postby Vytron » Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:23 am UTC

Whoa, whoa? Asking me to create games and mod them? That's beyond...

Huh...

Okay, so I guess it's time, as soon as I stop being busy in real life (sorry for breaking the fourth wall), I'll create a roleplaying game.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread Restaurant Bar & Grill

Postby Vytron » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:34 am UTC

Okay, so I was going to create the game, but I rather make sure there's interest in this...

So the idea is to create an RPG based on the Harvest Moon series, so you plant vegetables and fruit and take care of a farm and stuff, and roleplay with the townsfolk and stuff. A core element of the game is to woo certain people on the town and get a partner, possibly marrying them and stuff... though I guess this part is optional, it was a core part of the series.

Open questions are if the players all manage a farm as a team (so, say, one player can tend the crops while another goes to dig for gold to the mine and stuff) or if each player would have their own farm.

I could probably also implement quests and stuff if what the players want is killing monsters and fighting evil, but it's interesting to see if some other concept could help better to have a story-driven game.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread Restaurant Bar & Grill

Postby emlightened » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:28 pm UTC

Sounds good to me.

I'd prefer something inbetween: players can either have a farm on their own, or join up with other players to work together. It's probably a minority opinion, though. You could have a poll/vote in the sign-ups thread.
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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread Restaurant Bar & Grill

Postby Lawrencelot » Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:40 pm UTC

I like the idea. Either option is fine for me, but also consider dividing players into two teams for some sense of competitiveness (even though it's competitive farming)

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread Restaurant Bar & Grill

Postby orangedragonfire » Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:25 pm UTC

I haven't played the game, but I like the idea of a roleplay set on a farm. I don't think monsters are necessary, or at least not in the beginning.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread Restaurant Bar & Grill

Postby Vytron » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:54 pm UTC

Thanks everyone, the game will be starting tonight :)

It'll steal the concept of families from Lawrencelot's Vendetta but with farms (i.e. at the beginning you may join 1 out of 3 farms, and after they're filled up, new players may create a fourth farm and so on - so players can play cooperatively by joining the same farm or competitively by joining different ones.)

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread Restaurant Bar & Grill

Postby Vytron » Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:26 am UTC

Okay, no, sorry, I'm too old for this I can't do this alone...

Request for co-mod for the Farming RPG

As a co-mod you wouldn't be able to play, but would be able to provide situations and dialog for the NPCs (and, actually, I think we'd benefit if the co-mod was female, so she could gain control of all female NPCs, while I'd control the male ones) - and I also need the system I'm going to implement to make sure it's not too complex and it's fun for the benefit of all players.

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Re: The Forum Games Discussion Thread - ♀ Comod Requested!

Postby maident » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:54 am UTC

I'd love to try for co-mod @Vytron.


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