Nomic 19.0

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patzer
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Nomic 19.0

Postby patzer » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:08 am UTC

The only initial rule is that a rule is added if three players vote for it, unless this is altered by another rule.

http://purenomic.referata.com/wiki/xkcd ... Nomic_19.0
Last edited by patzer on Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:50 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby jdj42 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:21 am UTC

I vote to do a pure nomic game instead of normal nomic.

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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby patzer » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:34 am UTC

I propose that the following rule is added: "To propose a new rule, post "I propose that the following rule is added: [rule text]. For the purposes of voting, this shall be referred to as motion [number].", with [rule text] replaced by the exact text of the rule you propose to be added, and [number] to be replaced with the smallest positive integer not already the number of another motion. Rule proposals shall be referred to as motions." For the purposes of voting, this shall be referred to as motion 1.

I propose that the following rule is added: "If a motion has 3 votes for it, it passes. If a motion has 3 votes against it, it fails. Players may not vote more than once on any motion." For the purposes of voting, this shall be referred to as motion 2.

I propose that the initial rule is removed. For the purposes of voting, this shall be referred to as motion 3.


I vote in favor of all of the above motions.
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby dimitriye98 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:56 am UTC

What's a pure nomic? And anyway, moving for my usual proposal.

I move for the establishment of the following rules:

1. The term "player" is defined as someone who has posted in this thread demonstrating the intention to play the game.
2. A player may be marked as active or inactive.
3. A player must be marked as either active or inactive.
4. The term "active player" is defined as a player who is, when the content containing the phrase is posted, marked as active. The term "inactive player" is defined as a player who is, under the same conditions, marked as inactive.
5. If the time since an active player has posted in this thread demonstrating intention to play the game the exceeds three days, that player is marked as inactive.
6. An active player may at any time, mark themself as inactive.
7. When an inactive player posts in this thread demonstrating the intention to play the game, they are marked as active.
8. A "motion" is defined as a document describing an action to be taken if the said motion passes.
9. At any time, an active player may submit a motion.
10. Players may vote for, against, or abstain from voting on a motion.
11. If more than half of all active players who have not yet abstained vote for a motion, that motion is considered to have "passed" and the action described therein is executed as per the wording of the motion.
12. When three days pass from the submission of a motion, all active players who have not yet voted on that motion automatically abstain. If the total number of active players who have voted for the motion exceeds the total number of active players who have voted against the motion, that motion is considered to have "passed" and the action described therein is executed as per the wording of the motion.

For the purposes of voting, this motion shall be referred to as Dimitriey98's motion for the establishment of basic rules.

EDIT: Fixed the duplicate numbering of the number 10
Last edited by dimitriye98 on Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:06 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby dimitriye98 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:00 am UTC

I vote against motion 1. I vote against motion 2. I vote in favor of motion 3. I vote in favor of Dimitriye98's motion for the establishment of basic rules.
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby dudiobugtron » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:06 am UTC

I propose a motion to add the following rule:

All rules (with the exception of this rule) are considered to be replaced by their negations.

For the purposes of voting, this motion should be referred to as 'dudiobugtron's not motion'
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby dimitriye98 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:08 am UTC

I vote against dudiobugtron's not motion.
Seriously, what is it with you people and breaking games :P No offense.

EDIT: Misspelled their name.
Last edited by dimitriye98 on Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:24 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby dudiobugtron » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:16 am UTC

I propose the following infinite series of motions:

dudiobugtron's winning motion 1: The game ends when an active player reaches 1 point/s. At that time, all players with 1 or more point/s are considered to be winners.
dudiobugtron's winning motion 2: The game ends when an active player reaches 2 point/s. At that time, all players with 2 or more point/s are considered to be winners.
dudiobugtron's winning motion 3: The game ends when an active player reaches 3 point/s. At that time, all players with 3 or more point/s are considered to be winners.
...
dudiobugtron's winning motion n: The game ends when an active player reaches n point/s. At that time, all players with n or more point/s are considered to be winners.
dudiobugtron's winning motion n+1: The game ends when an active player reaches n+1 point/s. At that time, all players with n+1 or more point/s are considered to be winners.
...
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby dimitriye98 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:20 am UTC

No. Just no. I vote against all motions in dudiobugtron's infinite series of motions.

EDIT: I misspelled their name
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby Vytron » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:07 am UTC

I propose the following motion:

That the ultimate winner of the game is that one that is the last poster in the thread, after 48 hours have passed without another post.

For the purposes of voting, this motion should be referred as "Vytron's motion so that this Nomic is not over as soon as it starts because players find away to vote themselves as winners without much effort."

(no offense)

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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby orangedragonfire » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:33 am UTC

Why do people always start making victory condition motions anyway? The fun part is not winning but shaping the game.


And now that I have joined the game, no motion can pass without my agreement. I feel good about this.




Also, I too must ask what the difference between pure nomic and normal nomic is.

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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby dudiobugtron » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:19 am UTC

orangedragonfire wrote:Also, I too must ask what the difference between pure nomic and normal nomic is.

Is it currently a rule? It seems like both jdj42 and patzer both voted in favour of it, and were the only players at the time.
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby thecamoninja » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:27 am UTC

I propose that patzer update the OP with a list of all current rules and proposals and their names, so that voting for and following rules is easier. Let this proposal be known as the "rules and proposals in the OP" proposal.

I vote in favor of the "rules and proposals in the OP" proposal
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby orangedragonfire » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:29 am UTC

I vote in favor of the "rules and proposals in the OP" proposal

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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby dimitriye98 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:36 am UTC

I vote against Vytron's motion with too long a name.
I vote for the rules and proposals in op motion.

Guys, please vote on every motion or explicitly abstain, at least until unanimity is repealed.
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby patzer » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:41 am UTC

I vote in favor of all motions, except "rules and proposals in the OP"
I vote against "rules and proposals in the OP"

I propose that all rules and motions are kept at a new page on the wiki.
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby dudiobugtron » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:46 am UTC

I vote in favour of all motions (current and future) which patzer votes in favour of, unless I specify otherwise. My votes in favour update dynamically to match patzer's voting.
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby dimitriye98 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:48 am UTC

I vote in favor of Patzer's motion to keep rules and motions on the wiki.

I move that when such a time comes that motions are kept on the wiki the following rule shall be put into effect:

In order to propose a motion, a player must both post their motion in the correct location on the wiki and post a notification on the forum thread.
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby orangedragonfire » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:55 am UTC

I like that we have to decide on rules unanimously. Hence why I won't vote for Dimitriey98's motion. But I offer a modified version, where I have changed point 10 and removed point 11:




I move for the establishment of the following rules:

1. The term "player" is defined as someone who has posted in this thread demonstrating the intention to play the game.
2. A player may be marked as active or inactive.
3. A player must be marked as either active or inactive.
4. The term "active player" is defined as a player who is, when the content containing the phrase is posted, marked as active. The term "inactive player" is defined as a player who is, under the same conditions, marked as inactive.
5. If the time since an active player has posted in this thread demonstrating intention to play the game the exceeds three days, that player is marked as inactive.
6. An active player may at any time, mark themself as inactive.
7. When an inactive player posts in this thread demonstrating the intention to play the game, they are marked as active.
8. A "motion" is defined as a document describing an action to be taken if the said motion passes.
9. At any time, an active player may submit a motion.
10. Players may vote for, against, or abstain from voting on a motion.
10. If all active players vote for a motion, that motion is considered to have "passed" and the action described therein is executed as per the wording of the motion.

For the purposes of voting, this motion shall be referred to as orangedragonfire's modified version of Dimitriey98's motion for the establishment of basic rules.

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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby dimitriye98 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:02 am UTC

I will vote yes on that provided you fix the duplicate number 10 that got carried over from my version.
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby thecamoninja » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:15 am UTC

jdj42 wrote:I vote to do a pure nomic game instead of normal nomic.

I vote against this motion on the grounds that I do not know the difference

patzer wrote:I propose that the following rule is added: "To propose a new rule, post "I propose that the following rule is added: [rule text]. For the purposes of voting, this shall be referred to as motion [number].", with [rule text] replaced by the exact text of the rule you propose to be added, and [number] to be replaced with the smallest positive integer not already the number of another motion. Rule proposals shall be referred to as motions." For the purposes of voting, this shall be referred to as motion 1.

I propose that the following rule is added: "If a motion has 3 votes for it, it passes. If a motion has 3 votes against it, it fails. Players may not vote more than once on any motion." For the purposes of voting, this shall be referred to as motion 2.

I propose that the initial rule is removed. For the purposes of voting, this shall be referred to as motion 3.

I vote against these three motions because I think that numbering proposals is a more confusing and therefore inferior system to giving proposal descriptive titles, and I prefer unanimous voting for the time being

dimitriye98 wrote:I move for the establishment of the following rules:

1. The term "player" is defined as someone who has posted in this thread demonstrating the intention to play the game.
2. A player may be marked as active or inactive.
3. A player must be marked as either active or inactive.
4. The term "active player" is defined as a player who is, when the content containing the phrase is posted, marked as active. The term "inactive player" is defined as a player who is, under the same conditions, marked as inactive.
5. If the time since an active player has posted in this thread demonstrating intention to play the game the exceeds three days, that player is marked as inactive.
6. An active player may at any time, mark themself as inactive.
7. When an inactive player posts in this thread demonstrating the intention to play the game, they are marked as active.
8. A "motion" is defined as a document describing an action to be taken if the said motion passes.
9. At any time, an active player may submit a motion.
10. Players may vote for, against, or abstain from voting on a motion.
10. If more than half of all active players who have not yet abstained vote for a motion, that motion is considered to have "passed" and the action described therein is executed as per the wording of the motion.
11. When three days pass from the submission of a motion, all active players who have not yet voted on that motion automatically abstain. If the total number of active players who have voted for the motion exceeds the total number of active players who have voted against the motion, that motion is considered to have "passed" and the action described therein is executed as per the wording of the motion.

For the purposes of voting, this motion shall be referred to as Dimitriey98's motion for the establishment of basic rules.

I vote against this motion because I feel like it will get the rules all bogged down in complexity and faux-legalese, which is the reason that I usually don't play nomic in the first place - there's something to be said for covering all your bases using very precise language, but at the same time you can't ignore keeping things simple.

dudiobugtron wrote:I propose a motion to add the following rule:

All rules (with the exception of this rule) are considered to be replaced by their negations.

For the purposes of voting, this motion should be referred to as 'dudiobugtron's not motion'

No, because dudio is a jerk :P

dudiobugtron wrote:I propose the following infinite series of motions:

dudiobugtron's winning motion 1: The game ends when an active player reaches 1 point/s. At that time, all players with 1 or more point/s are considered to be winners.
dudiobugtron's winning motion 2: The game ends when an active player reaches 2 point/s. At that time, all players with 2 or more point/s are considered to be winners.
dudiobugtron's winning motion 3: The game ends when an active player reaches 3 point/s. At that time, all players with 3 or more point/s are considered to be winners.
...
dudiobugtron's winning motion n: The game ends when an active player reaches n point/s. At that time, all players with n or more point/s are considered to be winners.
dudiobugtron's winning motion n+1: The game ends when an active player reaches n+1 point/s. At that time, all players with n+1 or more point/s are considered to be winners.
...

see above vote.

Vytron wrote:I propose the following motion:

That the ultimate winner of the game is that one that is the last poster in the thread, after 48 hours have passed without another post.

For the purposes of voting, this motion should be referred as "Vytron's motion so that this Nomic is not over as soon as it starts because players find away to vote themselves as winners without much effort."

(no offense)

I vote against, because there's no reason to add wincons before we have basic rules set
patzer wrote:I propose that all rules and motions are kept at a new page on the wiki.

I'm willing to vote for this if someone links me to the wiki. For now: abstain
dimitriye98 wrote:I move that when such a time comes that motions are kept on the wiki the following rule shall be put into effect:

In order to propose a motion, a player must both post their motion in the correct location on the wiki and post a notification on the forum thread.

I vote against, because I don't know much about the wiki and don't want to have to rely on it to propose rules


Finally, I might be willing to vote for ODF's modified basic rules if the language were cleaned up to make it sound less like lawyer-talk. Is it too much to ask that this game be kept a bit casual?
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby dimitriye98 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:48 am UTC

Ok, since ninja (can I call you that?) asked for a proposal in plain english.

I move that inactive players auto-abstain when voting. A player is inactive if they haven't played for 3 days. A active player may declare themself inactive at any time to speed up gameplay. If more then half of active players who have not abstained vote yes voting ends and the motion passes. If more then half vote no then voting ends and the motion is rejected. After the proposal has remained unmodified for 3 days, the votes are tallied. If more votes are for the motion than are against it, it passes, otherwise it fails.
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby orangedragonfire » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:04 am UTC

And, my modification in the same informal language:

I propose that only active players need to agree on a motion for it to pass. A player is inactive if they haven't played for 3 days. A active player may declare themself inactive at any time to speed up gameplay.

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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby Snark » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:42 pm UTC

Posting. Playing. Now nothing can pass. :)

I vote against all motions.
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby patzer » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:41 pm UTC

Nothing is going to pass at this rate if we don't accept motions and require unanimity :(

I may have to exploit the fact that there is no rule against editing and edit the OP...

the wiki is at http://purenomic.referata.com/wiki/xkcd ... Nomic_19.0
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby Snark » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:22 pm UTC

Editing the post doesn't change the facts.
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby dimitriye98 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:02 pm UTC

Ok, if unanimity doesn't get repealed soon I'm going to start a new nomic, this is just rediculous.
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby Vytron » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:34 pm UTC

I vote just like Camo in this post, including voting against Vytron's Motion.

Also, if I don't mention a motion in a post, assume I abstained in all the motions I didn't mention.

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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby dimitriye98 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:40 pm UTC

Good idea, if I post without mentioning a motion, assume my abstention.
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby patzer » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:55 pm UTC

Snark wrote:Editing the post doesn't change the facts.


Just edited the post. What would you say the facts are now?
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby dimitriye98 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:03 pm UTC

Is that retroactive? Because, if so, my ruleset just came into effect.
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby Vytron » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:21 pm UTC

I don't think that's legal, I didn't see any motion to change unanimity into requiring 3 votes, can patzer just pass motions without even proposing or having them accepted?

Because if so, this isn't Nomic, call it Patzmic, or something.

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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby dimitriye98 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:38 pm UTC

Well, there's no rule against it, speaking of which:

I move for the establishment of the following rule: Patzer may not edit the original post unless permitted to do so by a rule or a passed motion. For the purposes of voting this motion shall be referred to as Dimitriye98's anti-omnipotence motion.

I vote for Dimitriye98's anti-omnipotence motion.
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby patzer » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:47 pm UTC

I vote for Dimitriye98's anti-omnipotence motion.
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby Vytron » Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:47 pm UTC

New rule: Rules take effect even if they're not in the OP, this one inclusive.

(There's no rule against this)

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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby orangedragonfire » Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:47 pm UTC

New rule: Any new rules (including ones in the OP) must be approved by orangedragonfire before they take effect.

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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby patzer » Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:59 pm UTC

Vytron wrote:New rule: Rules take effect even if they're not in the OP, this one inclusive.

(There's no rule against this)


ah, the OP says that rules are added if three players vote for them, but doesn't say that that is the only way that new rules can be added...

:(

New rule: All current rules are officially declared void.

New rule: Players may not edit posts if they contain new rules.

New rule: A rule is added if three players vote for it.

New rule: A rule may not be added at any other time, unless this is altered by another rule made according to the rules.

*waits for orangedragonfire's approval*
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby dimitriye98 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:02 pm UTC

Damn it, why didn't I think of that.

New rule: Players may only take actions that the rules explicitly permit. Orangedragonfire's approval rule is repealed.

Now hopefully orangedragonfire will agree that that sort of power by a single player is bad for the game...
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby Snark » Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:03 pm UTC

patzer wrote:
Snark wrote:Editing the post doesn't change the facts.


Just edited the post. What would you say the facts are now?
That you're a cheater?
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Re: Nomic 19.0

Postby patzer » Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:17 pm UTC

Snark wrote:
patzer wrote:
Snark wrote:Editing the post doesn't change the facts.


Just edited the post. What would you say the facts are now?
That you're a cheater?

Depends whether you consider the edit to apply as of the post time or the edit time. If the latter, then yes, but if the former, then the only player is me as of the time of the first post so I can do whatever I want.
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