Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

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orangedragonfire
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Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby orangedragonfire » Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:26 am UTC

Previous game.

You (the player) awaken, lying on your back, staring up at a gray ceiling.

What now?

Elmach
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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby Elmach » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:13 am UTC

Challenge the assumption that the color of the ceiling is gray; instead, call it Color_1.

Challenge the assumption that the ceiling is a ceiling by moving in the direction towards the ceiling.

Challenge the assumption that I (the player) have a back. Do this by trying to observe I's back.

Observe the surroundings. All of them.

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby orangedragonfire » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:17 am UTC

You call the color of the wall Color_1.

You move towards the ceiling.

You try to observe your back, but do not manage to do so.

You observe your surroundings. You appear to be in a room with 6 identical walls, each of which has the color Color_1.

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby Elmach » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:17 am UTC

Erm...

Define the direction of the ceiling to be oneward and the opposite direction to be anti-oneward.

Figure out how many orthogonal directions there are.

Observe the angles between each of the walls.

Observe each wall.

Observe the size of each wall.

Move to the oneward wall, and touch it. Observe the results.

Move to the anti-oneward wall, and touch it. Observe the results.

Observe "Observe".

Observe self.

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby orangedragonfire » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:28 am UTC

You define oneward and anti-oneward as directions.

You seem to be able to observe and move in two different orthogonal directions.

You don't have tools to measure exact angles, but they seem to be greater than 90 degrees, and they all look about equal.

Each of the walls looks like a smooth, one-dimensional, Color_1 surface, with no distinguishing marks.

You don't have any reference point for how large the walls are, but they all look like they are the same size.

You move to the oneward wall, and try to touch it. You can't feel anything where you'd expect to hit it.

You move to the anti-oneward wall, and try to touch it. You can't feel anything where you'd expect to hit it.

You don't see an "Observe" to observe.

You don't manage to look at yourself.

--

(edit note: changed can to can't twice)
Last edited by orangedragonfire on Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:01 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby Elmach » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:42 am UTC

orangedragonfire wrote:You don't have tools to measure exact angles, but they seem to be greater than 90 degrees, and they all look about equal.

!!!
orangedragonfire wrote:Each of the walls looks like a smooth, one-dimensional, Color_1 surface, with no distinguishing marks.

!!!

Confirm that each of the walls is linear.

Observe the shape of each wall.

Go to the center of the room. Measure the angles of center of the walls-center of the room-center of the walls for each pair of walls.

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby Nitrodon » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:07 am UTC

Observe whether the walls are the same length (and thus whether this room is a regular hexagon).
Observe whether any walls have openings.
Go through an opening if I find one; otherwise, attempt to go through a wall.

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby orangedragonfire » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:26 am UTC

Elmach

The walls are indeed linear, as far as you can tell.

The walls seem to be shaped like straight lines.

You go to the center of the room.

Elmach wrote:Measure the angles of center of the walls-center of the room-center of the walls for each pair of walls.

I... don't know what that means.



Nitrodon

All the walls seem to have the same length.

There do not seem to be any openings in any of the walls.

You go through a wall.

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby dudiobugtron » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:47 am UTC

Look around.

orangedragonfire wrote:You move to the oneward wall, and try to touch it. You can feel anything where you'd expect to hit it.

You move to the anti-oneward wall, and try to touch it. You can feel anything where you'd expect to hit it.

I assume you mean 'can't'. ;)
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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby orangedragonfire » Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:05 am UTC

Yes, I meant can't.

--

You are in a room with six Color_1 walls. The room seems to be quite a bit larger than the one you were in, but has the same shape. Each of the walls has a door. The door in the anti-oneward direction has some part in another color, which looks like this:

..- ... -. -.-- (but assume that they are all at the same height and one-dimensional)

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby dudiobugtron » Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:21 am UTC

Call the other colour Colour_2.

--------------------------------------
EDIT: IGNORE THE BIT BELOW:
Call the direction that the wall we just came through is in 'anti-twoward', and the direction the wall opposite it is in 'twoward'.
Check my memory to see if we walked through the twoward wall in the first room, to get here.

define the remaining orthogonal direction by calling the direction that the wall that was on our left as we entered the room is in 'threeward', and the opposite wall's direction anti-threeward. If left and right don't make enough sense, then arbitrarily choose which of the two remaining walls is in the threeward dieection.
Last edited by dudiobugtron on Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:28 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby Nitrodon » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:19 am UTC

Remember that there are only two orthogonal directions.

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby dudiobugtron » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:09 am UTC

Nitrodon wrote:Remember that there are only two orthogonal directions.

I just assumed that was a typo. XD Now I see we're in a 2d hexagon.

Since there is no third orthogonal direction, then there's no need to define it. My definition for twoward is a bit problematic though. Please ignore my previous post except for the bit about defining colour 2.
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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby dudiobugtron » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:27 am UTC

OK, try again.

If the room looks kind of like this picture, then define the directions relative to oneward, as in this picture.
hexward.png
hexward.png (9.16 KiB) Viewed 6478 times


Then, if that worked, check which wall we came through to get to this room. Also, check our memory to see which wall we went through to get here.
Image

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby orangedragonfire » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:43 am UTC

You define Color_2.

You define directions as indicated in the previous post.


You remember that to leave the previous room you went through the oneward wall.

You also remember that you did not enter the current room through any of the walls; instead you appeared in the room, about three-fourths towards oneward on the oneward antioneward line.
Last edited by orangedragonfire on Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:40 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby dudiobugtron » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:59 pm UTC

Call the first room 'Room 0', and call this room, 'Room ..- ... -. -.--'

Move through the antioneward wall. I want to see if we're back in Room 0.
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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby Reecer6 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:44 pm UTC

Move perpendicular to the plane that the walls seen so far are on.

I suggest that we have 3 directions, to fit each pair of parallel lines on a hexagon. That would make it a lot easier. Something like the attachment. But perhaps we may want to call them highward, midward, and loward.
Attachments
xkcd 6..png
xkcd 6..png (7 KiB) Viewed 6370 times

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby dudiobugtron » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:17 pm UTC

Reecer6 wrote:I suggest that we have 3 directions, to fit each pair of parallel lines on a hexagon. That would make it a lot easier. Something like the attachment. But perhaps we may want to call them highward, midward, and loward.

We already have those directions. You're just suggesting different names for them.
I think your suggested names are good, though.

EDIT: Not actions for odf to process:

Code: Select all

Adding extra lables to the directions in my earlier post:
Use 'midward' and 'antimidward' to refer to oneward and antioneward respectively.
Use highward and antihighward to refer to two/oneward and antitwo/antioneward respectively.
Use loward and antiloward to refer to antitwo/oneward and two/antioneward respectively.

Keep the old names just incase too, though. Also, keep twoward and antitwoward as they were.

How does that sound?
Last edited by dudiobugtron on Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:24 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby patzer » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:07 am UTC

I suggest we label:

reecer6's Oneward as 1-ward
reecer6's Twoward as 2-ward
reecer6's Threeward as 3-ward
reecer6's Antioneward as 4-ward
reecer6's Antitwoward as 5-ward
reecer6's Antithreeward as 0-ward

and label the direction half way between 1-ward and 2-ward as 1.5-ward, the direction half way between 5-ward and 0-ward as 5.5-ward, and, in general, the direction halfway between m-ward and n-ward where n-ward is less than 180 degrees clockwise of m-ward being m+((n-m)/2)-ward where all arithmetic is done modulo 6.

What do you think?
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family Anatidae on our hands. –Douglas Adams

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby dudiobugtron » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:23 am UTC

As long as reecer6's oneward and the current oneward are the same direction, I'm fine with that. Otherwise it will just get enormously confusing.

So, odf - lease ignore my earlier names, and use patzer's naming system instead. Make it so that current oneward is now called 1ward, so my 'antitwo/oneward' is now called 2ward, etc...
My old twoward is therefore now called 5.5ward.
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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby orangedragonfire » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:31 am UTC

You move towards the anti-oneward wall. Before you can reach it, however, you find yourself in a room which looks identical to Room 0.

You do not manage to move perpendicular to the two dimensions you are aware of.

You redefine your directions several times.

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby dudiobugtron » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:40 am UTC

orangedragonfire wrote:You move towards the anti-oneward wall. Before you can reach it, however, you find yourself in a room which looks identical to Room 0.

That's awesome. Check if we entered through the 1ward wall.
If so, go back through the 1ward wall and see if we're in Room ..- ... -. -.--
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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby orangedragonfire » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:11 am UTC

All the walls in this room look the same. How would you tell which one is the 1ward door?

/edit: You did come from a wall, and since you were walking straight in 4ward direction it makes sense to define the wall behind you which you just came through as 1ward. I just don't know how you would check whether this is correct.

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby dudiobugtron » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:53 am UTC

orangedragonfire wrote:All the walls in this room look the same. How would you tell which one is the 1ward door?

Door, eh? :)

Anyway, we should be able to tell which direction is 1ward (relative to ourselves), otherwise our definitions make no sense. Even if the 'true' direction changes without us perceiving it, we should still be able to know which direction we think is 1ward, without any reference to the walls.

Anyway, check if we have an orientation, and if so, which direction we are currently oriented in.
Check our memory to see if we can tell which direction oneward is even when moving.
If so, look in the 1ward direction.
Check our memory to see if the wall in that direction is the wall we just came through.
If so, go through it. Check if we're in Room ..- ... -. -.--

EDIT: in reply to odf's above edit, yes that is what I meant. No need to independently verify it using the walls' appearance.
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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby patzer » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:31 am UTC

Look in the 1.5-ward direction
Look in the 3.2-ward direction
Look in the 4-ward direction
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family Anatidae on our hands. –Douglas Adams

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby orangedragonfire » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:13 am UTC

dudiobugtron wrote:
orangedragonfire wrote:All the walls in this room look the same. How would you tell which one is the 1ward door?

Door, eh? :)

Wall. I meant wall. I will deny any and all accusations to the contrary.

--

You were walking in a straight line 4wards, so you assume that that is how you are oriented.

You turn around to look 1ward. You walk through the 1ward wall. You are now in a room that looks like Room ..- ... -. -.--, at the same position where you were last time.

You look 1.5ward. You see part of the 1ward wall.
You look 3.2ward. You see part of the 3ward wall.
You look 4ward. You see the 4ward wall. It has a door and an inscription in Color_2: ..- ... -. -.-- (assuming you look in a general 4ward direction; if you look very narrowly 4ward you only see the door)

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby patzer » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:43 am UTC

orangedragonfire wrote:You look 1.5ward. You see part of the 1ward wall.


Interesting, I would have expected to see part of the 2ward wall too.

Look in the 1.7ward direction
Look in the 2ward direction
Look in the 1.55ward direction
Look in the 1.5ward direction
Look in the 4ward direction
Assuming I see the same inscription "..- ... -. -.--" as last time I observed this wall, observe the exact direction of each dot and dash in the inscription.
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family Anatidae on our hands. –Douglas Adams

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby orangedragonfire » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:06 am UTC

Ugh, I should never have allowed you to look in the 3.2 direction. Actually, that makes sense too, since it'd be difficult to face exactly in the 3.2 direction without any angle measuring equipment.

--

1.7ward is ca. where the corner between the 1ward wall and the 2ward wall is.
2ward is part of the 2ward wall
1.55ward is part of the 1ward wall
1.5ward is also part of the 1ward wall, a bit closer to the door. (the same as last time)
4ward is the same as last time you looked there.

You aren't able to get completely accurate angles for the dots and dashes on the wall. However, you do notice that all the dashes seem equally long, and there are two different kinds of spaces between the dots and dashes. (where there is no space in my notation, there's a short space on the wall, and a space indicates a large space)

--

patzer wrote:Interesting, I would have expected to see part of the 2ward wall too.

You aren't in the middle of the room.

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby dudiobugtron » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:07 am UTC

look 'narrowly 4ward' and observe the 'door'.
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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby orangedragonfire » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:10 am UTC

You observe the door. It looks like the rest of the wall, except that it is a bit closer to you, and has a different texture.

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby dudiobugtron » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:13 am UTC

Move around the door and try to approach the 4ward wall without going through the door.

Examine the 4ward wall closely.
Examine the door, what does it look like from where we are?
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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby orangedragonfire » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:24 am UTC

You move 4ward. Before you even get close to the wall or the door, you find yourself in Room 0.

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby Mauthe Dhoo » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:38 pm UTC

From now on, make note of color and texture of observed things.


Move (presumably 4-ward) to the center of the room, and turn around (to face presumably 1-ward). Move 1-ward slowly until we pass into USNY. While doing so, make note of the distance between us and a)the center of the room and b)the wall, so as to determine what fraction of the distance btw center and wall must be traveled before changing rooms.

IF we successfully enter USNY, move to the center of the room, turn around (presumably 4-ward) and repeat the process to determine how much of the distance from center to door is traveled before changing to Room 0.

IF any of the directions I indicated in the above two paragraphs were inconsistent with what we know so far, then I misunderstood the directional system, and please do not implement those actions.

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby orangedragonfire » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:45 pm UTC

You move 4ward to the center of the room. You turn around and move 1ward. As you pass through the wall, you appear in Room ..- ... -. -.-- (which I assume is what you meant with USNY? I can't think what else you might mean) You appear in this room about halfway between the middle of the room and the 1ward wall.

You turn around to move 4ward towards the center of the room. However, before you reach it, you suddenly find yourself in Room 0, as if you'd just walked out from the 1ward wall. You were about halfway between the center of Room ..- ... -. -.-- and its 1ward wall when this happened.

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby dudiobugtron » Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:15 pm UTC

..- ... -. -.-- is 'UNSY' in morse code.

Anyway, let's try something radical, and see what's on the left of Room 0. Move from room 0, through the 4ward wall. Look around, including noting my position in the new room.

In general, if new rooms have one distinctive set of markings in them, name them after those markings as per Room ..- ... -. -.--
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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby orangedragonfire » Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:30 pm UTC

You move through the 4ward wall of Room 0. You appear in a room which seems identical to Room ..- ... -. -.--, and you appear about halfway between the 4ward wall of this room and its center.

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby dudiobugtron » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:00 am UTC

Cool!

Move up to the 4ward wall and examine it.
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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby orangedragonfire » Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:55 am UTC

You move up to the 4ward wall. It is Color_1, and has an inscription in Color_2, which reads ..- ... -. -.-- In the middle it has a sections which is slightly closer to you, and has a rougher texture, while the rest of the wall is smooth.

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby Elmach » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:32 am UTC

Measure how long the door is, relative to the wall.
Do that for all the doors.
Measure how long the ..- ... -. -.-- is, relative to the wall.
Measure how much of the door is taken up by the inscription.
Examine the rougher texture.
Measure yourself, relative to the walls.

Go to the corner between the 4ward and the 5ward wall, and go 4.5ward until you either are unable to do so or observe something different.

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Re: Challenge Your Assumptions Level 3

Postby orangedragonfire » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:49 am UTC

All the doors are about one-third of the size of a wall.

The ..- ... -. -.-- covers about half of the wall, including the entire door.

The rougher texture comes from the line being far from straight at a very small level; it resembles a saw, with lots of small spikes. Rough graph:

Wall texture: ---------------
Door texture: ^^^^^^^^^^

You do not appear to have a size.

You move to the corner between the 4ward and the 5ward wall.You are unable to go further 4.5ward, since the wall blocks you.


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