Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

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dudiobugtron
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Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby dudiobugtron » Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:22 am UTC

Welcome to krazykate's version of Superhero Rumble; Never-Ending Rumble! (The game where the powers are made up, and the points don't matter!)

Each player starts with 100 energy, which they first use to buy powers, and then use whatever is left to fight the other heroes! Once in combat, you can use your energy to attack another player, defend against attacks, use your powers, or any combination of those things you can afford. When you get hurt, you lose energy, which means you have less energy to spend next round.

When you have no energy left, you're out of the game (unless a power says otherwise), and so you need to re-enter with 100 energy and a new character.

To sign up, you need to do three easy steps:
1) Choose which powers you want to purchase, from the list of existing powers.
2) Post your character, including which powers you have bought, its name, and a backstory or photo if you want to.
3) Submit two new powers that will be added to the ever-increasing catalogue of powers.
That's it! Your character will now join in at the start of the next round.

When submitting a power, here are some useful tips:
You can make up your own powers, but there are lots of examples on the Superhero rumble site above if you need some inspiration. Powers that are exceptionally stupid (eg: you automatically win the game if your name is dudiobugtron) will be vetoed, but otherwise you can pretty much make the powers whatever you want. In this way, the rules of the game are basically decided by the players.

Please format powers like this:
Name of Power - Power Level: [powerlevel] - What the power does, including any costs to use it etc... - Flavour text, if any.


The 'power level' is how much the power costs to purchase. Purchasing powers changes the power levels of all powers in the catalogue. (Basically, if you buy a power, it costs more for the next person to purchase. If you don't buy a power, it costs less for the next person to purchase.)

Power levels can go negative, and can start negative if you like too. Power levels must always be integers.

Powers remain in the catalogue unless a majority of active players vote to remove them.

-----------------------------------

Here's the formula for how power levels change after purchase, if you're interested:
Spoiler:
Let n be the number of powers currently in the catalogue, and p be the number of powers the current character is purchasing. Whenever powers are purchased by a new character, the cost of the purchased powers goes up by (n-p)/p (rounded appropriately), and the cost of all unpurchased powers goes down by 1. This means the net change in costs will be approximately zero.
For example, if there are 10 powers and they all cost 10 points. You buy 2 powers. The cost of the purchased powers goes up by 8/2 = 4, so they now cost 14 each. The costs of the other 8 powers go down by 1 each, so they now cost 9. Then, you add 2 more powers to the list, so n is now 12.


How the first round worked (archive):
Spoiler:
However, for the first round, and to get a good bank of powers up and running, we'll be running it normal-style. So, everyone who wants to play, please submit 3 powers, in secret. Once there are enough players, we'll reveal the powers, and have a bidding session to establish the initial costs of those powers. After that, people can join in whenever they like.

Players who don't submit their moves in reasonable time-frame will be considered to have submitted 'all defense'; so the game can keep going even if the players change.
Last edited by dudiobugtron on Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:57 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby dudiobugtron » Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:25 am UTC

Catalogue of Powers

  1. The Recruiter - Power level: 12 - Whenever a new character joins, you gain energy equal to this power's power-level. (This only works at the start of the turn when the character actually joins, not when they submit their sign-up.)
  2. Transcendence - Power level: 33 - When you die, count the number of turns you survived for. Your next character gets 5 times that number as bonus starting energy. (If you die in your first round, then that's 0 turns survived for.)
  3. Prevenge - Power level: 16 - If a player attacks you this turn, double your attack value against them this turn. This is calculated after any redirects.
  4. Bus Driving - Power level: 10 - Use 7 Energy and choose 2 players; all actions applied towards either of the players is redirected to be applied to the other one.
  5. Dollar Auction - Power level: 18 - Burn half, rounded down, of your energy, and choose a target. The burnt energy is added to your defense. Attacks the target with 100 minus the powerlevel of this power unblockable damage.
  6. I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve - Power level: 13 - Assign 2*n energy to this, where n is whatever. If anyone attacks you with less than n (but more than zero) energy, attacks them with 2*n energy.
  7. Dig in - Power level: 40 - When you use this power, you cannot assign energy to attack. Gain energy equal to the cost of this power.
  8. Carnivorous plants - Power level: 10 - Use no more than once per turn. Spend 20 energy to create 4 plant sidekicks with 10 energy. The plants have a Poison power:
    Poison: whenever this plant deals damage with an attack, its targets are poisoned, and will take the same damage next turn as poison damage(in addition to the possible attacks of next turn). Plants cannot have other powers, and you cannot have more than 10 plants.
  9. Teleport - Power level: 14 - Spend 30 energy to avoid all damage that does not come from powers. Additionally, you can change the targets of your attack at the start of the resolution phase.
  10. False Gift - Power level: 7 - In every turn where you are alive, you may spend 15 to choose an opponent to whom you donate a cloaking device as a gift. Players gain an additional 20 defense against regular attacks for each gift they have. However, the cloaking devices are actually stuffed with plastic explosives. During your turn, you may detonate some or all of the gifts for free, cancelling the defense bonus and doing 25 (blockable) damage per gift, provided that you did not detonate any gifts during the previous 4 turns.
    Priorities: handing out gifts comes before regular attacks and detonations come after regular attacks.
  11. Swiss Army Knife - Power level: 13 - In every turn, you may use or more of the following tools in your Swiss Army knife:
    • Screwdriver (spend 25): screw a player of your choice by doing 8 unblockable damage.
    • Magnifying glass (spend 20): magnify all damage done by you and to you by 50% this round.
    • Laser Pointer (burn 5X):Choose X opponents. Point all targeted powers used this round against those opponents at a player of your choice. This power overrides any other redirections.
    • Permanent marker (burn X): modify any power level or player energy in the game by up to X (X is a positive integer) in either direction.
  12. Thorns - Power level: 40 - Each player that attacks you takes unblockable damage equal to your used defense. Used means that it has reduced the damage of an attack.
  13. Time Field - Power level: -1 - The player with this power must submit moves one turn in advance. (On turn 1, for example, the player would submit their moves for turns 1 and 2.) (A player only must use their pre-submitted moves when they still have Time Field. Any invalid moves default to defense.)
  14. Assassinate - Power level: 10 - Burn X to attack a single player for 3X. If that player dies, you gain X energy after all damage calculations. This power may only be used once each turn, and the user of this power cannot attack in the same turn this power is used.
  15. Infected - Power level: -7 - If you die and no other players are infected, the player(s) with the highest energy total become(s) infected. If you are Infected, you can't gain energy or new powers.
  16. Mathematician - Power level: 26 - When your total defense in a round is a prime number, you gain 10 energy at the end of that round.
  17. Meta Ninja - Power level: 22 - You have an unblockable attack of power 50 minus Meta Ninja's power level. You can use this attack up to once per round.
  18. Elmach's power #1 - Power level: What he puts -1 - Stuff.
  19. Elmach's power #2 - Power level: What he puts -1 - Stuff.
  20. Regeneration - Power level: 12 - Gain 3 energy after every turn.
  21. Rechargeable Helmet - Power level: 6 - Get 12 extra defense every odd-numbered turn.

-------

Public powers (Every player may choose to purchase this every round (up to restrictions due to other powers). Energy is spent rather than lost.)

  1. Defense Gambit - Power Level: X - Choose a target opponent. If the target spends less than X on regular defense during this round, they receive X energy at the end of the round. If they spend more than X, you receive X energy at the end of the round. (|X| can not be more than your current energy total.)
Last edited by dudiobugtron on Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:02 pm UTC, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby dudiobugtron » Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:40 am UTC

/in for first round.

Note, you don't get to choose the power levels of the skills for the first round. That's only for once the game has actually started.

Also, new players who aren't sure what to do are welcome to watch for the first round, and join in once they know what's going on! Or, just join in straight away - even if you die, you can just start over. :)

My powers:
Spoiler:
The Recruiter - Whenever a new player joins, you gain energy equal to this power's power-level. (This only works at the start of the turn when they actually join, not when they submit their sign-up.)

Transcendence - When you die, count the number of turns you survived for. Your next character gets 5 times that number as bonus starting energy. (If you die in the first round, then that's 0 turns survived for.)

Prevenge - If a player attacks you this turn, double your attack value against them this turn.
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby Elmach » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:51 am UTC

I have absolutely no idea what I am doing! So /in!

Powers
Spoiler:
Bus Driving: Use 7 Energy and choose 2 players; all actions applied towards either of the players is redirected to be applied to the other one.
Dollar Auction: Burn half, rounded down, of your energy, and choose a target. The burnt energy is added to your defense. Attacks the target with 100 minus the powerlevel of this power unblockable damage.
I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve: Assign 2*n energy to this, where n is whatever. If anyone attacks you with less than n energy, attacks them with 2*n energy.


Also, \lock, because I see no reason to change my powers.

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Lawrencelot
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby Lawrencelot » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:18 am UTC

/in

I actually joined this forum to play games like this :D

Powers:
Spoiler:
-Dig in: When you use this power, you cannot attack. Gain energy equal to the cost of this power.
-Carnivorous plants: Use no more than once per turn. Spend 20 energy to create 4 plant sidekicks with 10 energy. The plants have a Poison power: whenever they attack, their targets are poisoned, and will receive the same damage from the plants next turn as they received from them this turn (in addition to the possible attacks of next turn). Plants cannot have other powers, and you cannot have more than 10 plants.
-Teleport: Spend 30 energy to avoid all damage that does not come from powers. Additionally, you can change the targets of your attack at the start of the resolution phase.

VrookLamar
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby VrookLamar » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:49 pm UTC

A general remark: we need to keep track of the order in which the powers' effects are applied in each turn.

Powers:
Spoiler:
False Gift - In every turn where you are alive, you may spend 15 to choose an opponent to whom you donate a cloaking device as a gift. The recipient gains an additional 20 defense against regular attacks for each gift. However, the cloaking devices are actually stuffed with plastic explosives. During your turn, you may detonate some or all of the gifts for free, cancelling the defense bonus and doing 25 (blockable) damage per gift, provided that you did not detonate any gifts during the previous 4 turns.
Priorities: handing out gifts comes before regular attacks and detonations come after regular attacks.

Swiss Army Knife - In every turn, you may use or more of the following tools in your Swiss Army knife:
• Screwdriver (spend 25): screw a player of your choice by doing 8 unblockable damage.
• Magnifying glass (spend 20): magnify all damage done by you and to you by 50% this round.
• Laser Pointer (burn 8): point all targeted powers used this round at a player of your choice.
• Permanent marker (burn X): modify any number in the game by up to X (X is a positive integer) in either direction. This can be a power level, player energy, number in a power description, etc.

Parity check - Spend 20. If you are attacked for an even amount in total this turn, you gain the amount of energy by which the total attack exceeds your defense, instead of losing it. Also, all enemies that attack you for an odd amount (counting regular attacks only) take 3 unblockable damage.

Defense Gambit - Public power: every player may choose to purchase this every round (up to restrictions due to other powers). Spend X and choose a target player. If the target spends less than X on regular defense during this round, he receives X energy at the end of the round. If he spends more than X, you receive X energy at the end of the round.


Locked.
Last edited by VrookLamar on Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:46 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby dudiobugtron » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:50 pm UTC

Welcome to the game everyone! 4 players is enough to start the bidding if we want to, but I think we should wait a bit to see if any more arrive first. 5 or 6 would be ideal.

re: VrookLamar - I think, wherever possible, powers should be applied simultaneously. (Except powers that give a specific time they occur, and those ones should all occur at the same time as other powers which the same specific time). There shouldn't be that many situations where we need to give one power preference over another.
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby firesoul31 » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:20 am UTC

In and lock.
Spoiler:
Thorns: Each player that attacks you takes unblockable damage equal to your used defense. Used means that it
has reduced the damage of an attack.


Time Field: The player with this power must submit moves one turn in advance. (On turn 1, for example, the player would submit their moves for turns 1 and 2.) On odd-numbered turns, you may remove this power and cause another player to gain it. (A player only must use their pre-submitted moves when they still have Time Field. Any invalid moves default to defense.)

Assassinate: Burn X to deal 3X damage to a single player. If that player dies, you gain X energy. This power may only be used once each turn, and the user of this power cannot attack in the same turn this power is used.
Pronouns: she/her/hers or they/them please.

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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby Snark » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:11 am UTC

/in

Powers:
Spoiler:
Infected - If you die and no other players are infected, the player(s) with the highest energy total become(s) infected. If you are Infected, you can't gain energy or new powers.
Mathematician - When your total defense in a round is a prime number, you gain 10 energy at the end of that round.
Meta Ninja - You have an unblockable attack of power 50 minus Meta Ninja's power level. You can use this attack up to once per round.
Dashboard Confessional wrote:I want to give you whatever you need. What is it you need? Is it within me?


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VrookLamar
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby VrookLamar » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:52 pm UTC

I have changed my third power because I thought it was more interesting. I have looked at other people's powers now, so consider mine locked unless there are objections.

dudiobugtron wrote:re: VrookLamar - I think, wherever possible, powers should be applied simultaneously. (Except powers that give a specific time they occur, and those ones should all occur at the same time as other powers which the same specific time). There shouldn't be that many situations where we need to give one power preference over another.

I agree, specifying the order will not be necessary for most powers.

Another potential source of ambiguity: if your power refers to a concept like 'attack' or 'damage' or 'defense', make sure that it is clear whether attacks (etc.) from powers also count, or only regular attacks. Perhaps we should use the convention that only regular attacks/defense is meant, unless explicity stated otherwise.

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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby dudiobugtron » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:01 am UTC

VrookLamar wrote:Another potential source of ambiguity: if your power refers to a concept like 'attack' or 'damage' or 'defense', make sure that it is clear whether attacks (etc.) from powers also count, or only regular attacks. Perhaps we should use the convention that only regular attacks/defense is meant, unless explicity stated otherwise.

I agree with the need for a convention, but disagree about the convention. If it's not obvious from the context, or explicitly stated, then attacks/defense from other sources should count the same as regular attacks/defense. If the power designer didn't want the power to give an attack, or add defense, they should have used a different word.
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby dudiobugtron » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:49 pm UTC

OK, here are the powers:

Balance notes: Bus Driving and laser pointer both redirect powers, so we need to work out how they interact. Unless, the redirected powers affect both new targets equally. Thoughts?
Also, some powers are horrifically overpowered. I personally think that is fine, but other players might disagree. If there are any powers you wish vetoed or modified, speak up!
Also, if you have any other potential balance questions, now is the best time to raise them. (eg: does any attack damage you might deal from Meta-Ninja count as damage from powers for the purposes of Teleport? Does a player making a new character count as a 'new player' for the purposes of The Recruiter? etc...)

List of Powers:

The Recruiter - Whenever a new player joins, you gain energy equal to this power's power-level. (This only works at the start of the turn when they actually join, not when they submit their sign-up.)

Transcendence - When you die, count the number of turns you survived for. Your next character gets 5 times that number as bonus starting energy. (If you die in your first round, then that's 0 turns survived for.)

Prevenge - If a player attacks you this turn, double your attack value against them this turn.

Bus Driving - Use 7 Energy and choose 2 players; all actions applied towards either of the players is redirected to be applied to the other one.

Dollar Auction - Burn half, rounded down, of your energy, and choose a target. The burnt energy is added to your defense. Attacks the target with 100 minus the powerlevel of this power unblockable damage.

I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve: Assign 2*n energy to this, where n is whatever. If anyone attacks you with less than n energy, attacks them with 2*n energy.

Dig in - When you use this power, you cannot attack. Gain energy equal to the cost of this power.

Carnivorous plants - Use no more than once per turn. Spend 20 energy to create 4 plant sidekicks with 10 energy. The plants have a Poison power: whenever they attack, their targets are poisoned, and will receive the same damage from the plants next turn as they received from them this turn (in addition to the possible attacks of next turn). Plants cannot have other powers, and you cannot have more than 10 plants.

Teleport - Spend 30 energy to avoid all damage that does not come from powers. Additionally, you can change the targets of your attack at the start of the resolution phase.

False Gift - In every turn where you are alive, you may spend 15 to choose an opponent to whom you donate a cloaking device as a gift. The recipient gains an additional 20 defense against regular attacks for each gift. However, the cloaking devices are actually stuffed with plastic explosives. During your turn, you may detonate some or all of the gifts for free, cancelling the defense bonus and doing 25 (blockable) damage per gift, provided that you did not detonate any gifts during the previous 4 turns.
Priorities: handing out gifts comes before regular attacks and detonations come after regular attacks.

Swiss Army Knife - In every turn, you may use or more of the following tools in your Swiss Army knife:
• Screwdriver (spend 25): screw a player of your choice by doing 8 unblockable damage.
• Magnifying glass (spend 20): magnify all damage done by you and to you by 50% this round.
• Laser Pointer (burn 8): point all targeted powers used this round at a player of your choice.
• Permanent marker (burn X): modify any number in the game by up to X (X is a positive integer) in either direction. This can be a power level, player energy, number in a power description, etc.

Defense Gambit - Public power: every player may choose to purchase this every round (up to restrictions due to other powers). Spend X and choose a target player. If the target spends less than X on regular defense during this round, he receives X energy at the end of the round. If he spends more than X, you receive X energy at the end of the round.

Thorns - Each player that attacks you takes unblockable damage equal to your used defense. Used means that it
has reduced the damage of an attack.


Time Field - The player with this power must submit moves one turn in advance. (On turn 1, for example, the player would submit their moves for turns 1 and 2.) On odd-numbered turns, you may remove this power and cause another player to gain it. (A player only must use their pre-submitted moves when they still have Time Field. Any invalid moves default to defense.)

Assassinate - Burn X to deal 3X damage to a single player. If that player dies, you gain X energy. This power may only be used once each turn, and the user of this power cannot attack in the same turn this power is used.

Infected - If you die and no other players are infected, the player(s) with the highest energy total become(s) infected. If you are Infected, you can't gain energy or new powers.

Mathematician - When your total defense in a round is a prime number, you gain 10 energy at the end of that round.

Meta Ninja - You have an unblockable attack of power 50 minus Meta Ninja's power level. You can use this attack up to once per round.


It's time to submit your bids! Some rules for bidding:
- You cannot bid in such a way that your positive bids exceed 100 energy in total.
- You can bid negative amounts for powers.
- You cannot bid in such a way that your negative bids are less than -100 energy in total.
- Each power is won by the player with the highest bid.
- The power level of each power will be the value of the winning bid.
- If a power is bid on by no player, its starting power level will be 0.
- In the event of a tie, there will be a re-bid. Each of the tied players must bid at least what they bid last time for it. If the rebid is also a tie, neither player gets the power. (Rebids happen after the results are known, so the 100 total energy rule doesn't apply. You still can't bid more energy than you have available though.

Once the bids are all in, the powers will be assigned, and will then go in to the list of all powers which new characters can purchase when they join.

Current Players:
VrookLamar
Snark
firesoul31
Lawrencelot
Elmach
dudiobugtron
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby VrookLamar » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:22 pm UTC

- I think Assassinate needs nerfing. Currently the owner can single-handedly kill any player at a whim, practically.
- Thorns makes the player almost invincible, it needs change as well. I would suggest capping the damage done to other players at some appropriate amount.
- I also see potential problems when Permanent marker is used in conjunction with other powers to create a completely unstoppable uber-power.
Maybe it should be restricted to changing power levels and energy levels only, or another suitable restriction.
- I suggest that Laser pointer is applied after Bus Driving (i.e. takes priority) for simplicity.

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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby dudiobugtron » Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:39 pm UTC

VrookLamar wrote:- I think Assassinate needs nerfing. Currently the owner can single-handedly kill any player at a whim, practically.

Maybe make the damage defendable? Or, make it so you don't get the energy back if they die?

- Thorns makes the player almost invincible, it needs change as well. I would suggest capping the damage done to other players at some appropriate amount.

I think that it should only deal damage to the other players based on how much of their own attack was mitigated by defense, rather than basically dealing damage equal to the amount you defended for to all attacking players.

Also remember though that its usability depends on how much energy you actually have to defend with; so unless you win it for a small amount of energy if probably won't be that useful to you.

- I also see potential problems when Permanent marker is used in conjunction with other powers to create a completely unstoppable uber-power.
Maybe it should be restricted to changing power levels and energy levels only, or another suitable restriction.

I agree this power has the potential to be monstrously OP. The player with time field must submit their moves 17 turns in advance, for example. Or assassinate - burn X to deal 20X damage to target player. And you don't even need to spend a whole energy to make dollar auction unusable. Or, survive for a while, then kill yourself to make transcendece give your next character 50 times the number of turns you survived for.
I suggest that power just be removed entirely from Swiss Army Knife. Limiting it to power levels and player energy levels would be fine too though.

- I suggest that Laser pointer is applied after Bus Driving (i.e. takes priority) for simplicity.

Being applied after, and taking priority, are different things in this case, because if bus driver switches the targets first, then laser pointer will have new targets to redirect.
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Snark
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby Snark » Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:33 pm UTC

My comments:

List of Powers:

The Recruiter - Whenever a new player joins, you gain energy equal to this power's power-level. (This only works at the start of the turn when they actually join, not when they submit their sign-up.) Like it. Should only count for actual new players, not new characters based on current wording, but I'm ok if the wording changes to include new characters as well.

Transcendence - When you die, count the number of turns you survived for. Your next character gets 5 times that number as bonus starting energy. (If you die in your first round, then that's 0 turns survived for.) Love it.

Prevenge - If a player attacks you this turn, double your attack value against them this turn. Like it. Powerful, but getting it for a high bid balances it.

Bus Driving - Use 7 Energy and choose 2 players; all actions applied towards either of the players is redirected to be applied to the other one. Too complex. Do actions include normal attacks? If so, how would it interact with Prevenge? Does this include passive actions like The Recruiter or Dig In and Teleport and Mathematician?

Dollar Auction - Burn half, rounded down, of your energy, and choose a target. The burnt energy is added to your defense. Attacks the target with 100 minus the powerlevel of this power unblockable damage. Like it. Burnt energy is only added to your defense for the current round, right?

I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve: Assign 2*n energy to this, where n is whatever. If anyone attacks you with less than n energy, attacks them with 2*n energy. Like it IF AND ONLY IF it only counts positive attacks less than n. If it attacks people who attack you for zero, that'd be annoying.

Dig in - When you use this power, you cannot attack. Gain energy equal to the cost of this power. Like it. Can you use non-normal attacks like Meta Ninja or others?

Carnivorous plants - Use no more than once per turn. Spend 20 energy to create 4 plant sidekicks with 10 energy. The plants have a Poison power: whenever they attack, their targets are poisoned, and will receive the same damage from the plants next turn as they received from them this turn (in addition to the possible attacks of next turn). Plants cannot have other powers, and you cannot have more than 10 plants. Overpowered. Spend 20 energy to get 40 energy? I'd like this power if a clause was added that all your plants automatically die if you die. Also, how are you defining damage dealt?

Teleport - Spend 30 energy to avoid all damage that does not come from powers. Additionally, you can change the targets of your attack at the start of the resolution phase. Like it.

False Gift - In every turn where you are alive, you may spend 15 to choose an opponent to whom you donate a cloaking device as a gift. The recipient gains an additional 20 defense against regular attacks for each gift. However, the cloaking devices are actually stuffed with plastic explosives. During your turn, you may detonate some or all of the gifts for free, cancelling the defense bonus and doing 25 (blockable) damage per gift, provided that you did not detonate any gifts during the previous 4 turns.
Priorities: handing out gifts comes before regular attacks and detonations come after regular attacks. Like it. Does the extra defense count the turn it is received?

Swiss Army Knife - In every turn, you may use or more of the following tools in your Swiss Army knife:
• Screwdriver (spend 25): screw a player of your choice by doing 8 unblockable damage.
• Magnifying glass (spend 20): magnify all damage done by you and to you by 50% this round.
• Laser Pointer (burn 8): point all targeted powers used this round at a player of your choice.
• Permanent marker (burn X): modify any number in the game by up to X (X is a positive integer) in either direction. This can be a power level, player energy, number in a power description, etc. Like it IF AND ONLY IF permanent market is removed.

Defense Gambit - Public power: every player may choose to purchase this every round (up to restrictions due to other powers). Spend X and choose a target player. If the target spends less than X on regular defense during this round, he receives X energy at the end of the round. If he spends more than X, you receive X energy at the end of the round. LIke it IF AND ONLY IF you may not self-target with this power.

Thorns - Each player that attacks you takes unblockable damage equal to your used defense. Used means that it has reduced the damage of an attack. It's ok as is IMO.

Time Field - The player with this power must submit moves one turn in advance. (On turn 1, for example, the player would submit their moves for turns 1 and 2.) On odd-numbered turns, you may remove this power and cause another player to gain it. (A player only must use their pre-submitted moves when they still have Time Field. Any invalid moves default to defense.) Really don't like this. Too complex and often your move choices will be different between rounds. Not to mention you don't even know how much energy you'll have in the next round.

Assassinate - Burn X to deal 3X damage to a single player. If that player dies, you gain X energy. This power may only be used once each turn, and the user of this power cannot attack in the same turn this power is used. I like this IF AND ONLY IF the damage is defendable. Assuming the victim must die in the same turn they were attacked.

Infected - If you die and no other players are infected, the player(s) with the highest energy total become(s) infected. If you are Infected, you can't gain energy or new powers. Love it.

Mathematician - When your total defense in a round is a prime number, you gain 10 energy at the end of that round. Like it.

Meta Ninja - You have an unblockable attack of power 50 minus Meta Ninja's power level. You can use this attack up to once per round. Like it.
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby firesoul31 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:38 am UTC

About Assassinate: Yeah, sorry about Assassinate. I realized it was too strong, and then the Great Forum Lag occurred. What I wanted to do was change it to this:

Burn X (up to this power's power level) to attack a single enemy for 3X. If they die, gain X energy (after all damage calculations.)

This would both allow more defence and make it more risky to use (as you could die before healing). If people still think it's that strong (I never was good at balance), then perhaps the damage should be lowered to 2X.

About Thorns: It seems okay to me, although I agree that it should perhaps only apply based on the amount the player attacked you. The panther balance change would be to make it unused defense instead.

About Time Field: I completely mind-blanked... yeah, energy changing would mess that up, but I don't see a way to salvage anything workable from that. What should I do? Should I ask someone for a new power? Make a new one? Remove it entirely? Whatever you all want.

About Bus Driver: If it only applies to activated, freely targeted powers, then awesome. Otherwise, see Snark.

About Swiss Army Knife: Marker seems extremely strong, as does the Laser Pointer. Ideas: Marker instead can change by X% rather than X? Pointer is limited-use/costs more/costs based on the number or rd-ed powers?

About Defense Gambit: See Snark

About Carnivorous Plants: Strong, but hopefully balanced by cost IF there's some way to attack the plants before they attack. (Put another way, can the plants attack when they're first summoned? If they can, then they all get at least 2 attacks before dying, or 20 for 80 damage).

About I like less than...: See Snark.

I'm cool with everything else as is.
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby Elmach » Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:51 am UTC

For ILltHoYHaWaYD: yeah, positive attacks is what I should have typed.
For Dollar Auction: Yeah, that was what I meant
For Bus Driving: The intention was that they are effectively "switched" for that round

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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby Snark » Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:10 am UTC

The word switched doesn't explain the questions raised.
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby dudiobugtron » Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:10 am UTC

Great discussion guys! :)
-------------------------

I think that it's obvious what happens with bus driving, and the wording doesn't need to be changed. It's clear that powers and attacks will both be redirected.
I agree we do need to set an 'order of precedence' between bus driving and prevenge, though, and also bus driving and laser pointer. I think bus driving and laser pointer should occur before prevenge. And, I think they should all be re-done if teleport (or another skill that lets you re-submit or change parts of your moves) is used in a way that effects it.

I think with Dig in, you should be able to use powers that give you normal attacks. I interpreted 'cannot attack' as 'cannot assign energy to attack'. I realise this goes against my earlier claim to VrookLamar, though!

I think damage dealt (for carnivorous plants) should be pro-rated like it was for the last two rumbles. So if you defend for 40, and get attacked for 60 and 20, then the 60 person does 30 dmg, and the 20 person does 10 dmg.

I agree you shouldn't be able to target yourself with defense gambit.

Time Field - please don't alter this power! I think it is great as is. You should be able to submit Vytron-eqsue conditional moves (eg: if I have X or more energy, do this, otherwise, spend the frist 2/3 of my energy on blah, and the next 4 energy on ... etc...)
I really hope this power stays in with minimal alterations.

I like the changes to assassinate.
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby VrookLamar » Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:17 am UTC

How about this:
- Laser Pointer (which is, admittedly, a bit too strong) to be changed to: Laser Pointer (burn 5X): choose X players other than yourself. All targeted powers used on them are now pointed at a single player of your choice.
- If Bus Driving and Laser Pointer are both used, then the effects of Bus Driving on the targeted powers are ignored, although the effects on regular attacks remain. And Prevenge is applied after all this.
- Permanent marker: Let it only apply to player energies and power levels. This seems both reasonably balanced and easy to implement.

Other comments:
- Of course Defense Gambit shouldn't be self-targeting, I should have included that.
- The new assassinate is much better, I am fine with it.
- I don't like the fact that you can give Time Field to other players. I would hate to be forced through such complicated procedures. If this clause is removed, I am okay with it.

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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby dudiobugtron » Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:06 am UTC

VrookLamar wrote:- I don't like the fact that you can give Time Field to other players. I would hate to be forced through such complicated procedures. If this clause is removed, I am okay with it.

It should have at least *some* benefit to using it.
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby Snark » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:52 pm UTC

dudiobugtron wrote:
VrookLamar wrote:- I don't like the fact that you can give Time Field to other players. I would hate to be forced through such complicated procedures. If this clause is removed, I am okay with it.

It should have at least *some* benefit to using it.

The benefit is that you'll probably win it with a negative bid, getting extra energy at game start.
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby dudiobugtron » Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:16 pm UTC

Carnivorous plants can't attack the turn they're summoned, unless the power is changed to specifically specify that, or another power says they can.

Here's a new list with suggested changes underlined or struck-through:
dudiobugtron wrote:List of Powers:

The Recruiter - Whenever a new player character joins, you gain energy equal to this power's power-level. (This only works at the start of the turn when they actually join, not when they submit their sign-up.)

Transcendence - When you die, count the number of turns you survived for. Your next character gets 5 times that number as bonus starting energy. (If you die in your first round, then that's 0 turns survived for.)

Prevenge - If a player attacks you this turn, double your attack value against them this turn. This is calculated after any redirects

Bus Driving - Use 7 Energy and choose 2 players; all actions applied towards either of the players is redirected to be applied to the other one.

Dollar Auction - Burn half, rounded down, of your energy, and choose a target. The burnt energy is added to your defense. Attacks the target with 100 minus the powerlevel of this power unblockable damage.

I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve: Assign 2*n energy to this, where n is whatever. If anyone attacks you with less than n (but more than zero) energy, attacks them with 2*n energy.

Dig in - When you use this power, you cannot assign energy to attack. Gain energy equal to the cost of this power.

Carnivorous plants - Use no more than once per turn. Spend 20 energy to create 4 plant sidekicks with 10 energy. The plants have a Poison power:
Poison: whenever this plant deals damage with an attack, its targets are poisoned, and will take the same damage next turn as poison damage (in addition to the possible attacks of next turn). Plants cannot have other powers, and you cannot have more than 10 plants.

Teleport - Spend 30 energy to avoid all damage that does not come from powers. Additionally, you can change the targets of your attack at the start of the resolution phase.

False Gift - In every turn where you are alive, you may spend 15 to choose an opponent to whom you donate a cloaking device as a gift. The recipient gains Players gain an additional 20 defense against regular attacks for each gift they have. However, the cloaking devices are actually stuffed with plastic explosives. During your turn, you may detonate some or all of the gifts for free, cancelling the defense bonus and doing 25 (blockable) damage per gift, provided that you did not detonate any gifts during the previous 4 turns.
Priorities: handing out gifts comes before regular attacks and detonations come after regular attacks.

Swiss Army Knife - In every turn, you may use or more of the following tools in your Swiss Army knife:
• Screwdriver (spend 25): screw a player of your choice by doing 8 unblockable damage.
• Magnifying glass (spend 20): magnify all damage done by you and to you by 50% this round.
• Laser Pointer (burn 8 5X): Choose X opponents. Point all targeted powers used this round against those opponents at a player of your choice. This power overrides any other redirections.
• Permanent marker (burn X): modify any number power level or player energy in the game by up to X (X is a positive integer) in either direction. This can be a power level, player energy, number in a power description, etc.

Thorns - Each player that attacks you takes unblockable damage equal to your used defense. Used means that it has reduced the damage of an attack.

Time Field - The player with this power must submit moves one turn in advance. (On turn 1, for example, the player would submit their moves for turns 1 and 2.) On odd-numbered turns, you may remove this power and cause another player to gain it. (A player only must use their pre-submitted moves when they still have Time Field. Any invalid moves default to defense.)

Assassinate - Burn X to deal 3X damage to attack a single player for 3X. If that player dies, you gain X energy after all damage calculations. This power may only be used once each turn, and the user of this power cannot attack in the same turn this power is used.

Infected - If you die and no other players are infected, the player(s) with the highest energy total become(s) infected. If you are Infected, you can't gain energy or new powers.

Mathematician - When your total defense in a round is a prime number, you gain 10 energy at the end of that round.

Meta Ninja - You have an unblockable attack of power 50 minus Meta Ninja's power level. You can use this attack up to once per round.


Public powers (Every player may choose to purchase this every round (up to restrictions due to other powers). Energy is spent rather than lost.)
Defense Gambit - Power Level: X - Choose a target player opponent. If the target spends less than X on regular defense during this round, they receives X energy at the end of the round. If they spends more than X, you receive X energy at the end of the round.


Also note that because defense Gambit is a public power, I've changed its description slightly without highlighting it. Public powers don't need to be bid on.

I'm surprised no one suggested changing teleport btw. That was the skill I thought was the most OP. XD
No changes to thorns or carnivorous plants yet, but I changed the wording of Carnivorous plants; let me know if this is OK.

Is anyone unhappy with the above changes? Are there any changes that should still happen?
After we've agreed these are fine (or, at least, not disagreed), we can start the bidding.
Last edited by dudiobugtron on Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:43 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby Snark » Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:49 pm UTC

Happy with current status.
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby VrookLamar » Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:00 pm UTC

I also think Teleport is very strong, but it's still possible to counter it using one of the damage-dealing powers. I wouldn't mind it being nerfed, but I am also happy with the current status.

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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby firesoul31 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:38 pm UTC

Both Teleport and Thorns are strong, but hopefully if they're too powerful (but not game-breaking) they'll just be balanced out by more direct-damage powers. I'm fine with the powers.
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby Lawrencelot » Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:05 pm UTC

Actually dudio interpreted my powers as I imagined them, so yeah I'm happy with the current status. This means that you can use Dig In in combination with Meta Ninja for example

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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby Elmach » Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:19 pm UTC

Question about recruiter: Is it new player or new character?

I prefer the new character.

Other than that, happy.

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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby dudiobugtron » Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:42 pm UTC

Elmach wrote:Question about recruiter: Is it new player or new character?

I prefer the new character.

Other than that, happy.


I had meant it to be 'new character', but 'new player' fits better with the name, and the description, so I was happy enough to leave it like that. If you also want it to be new character, though, and Snark didn't mind either way, I will assume nobody else has any issue with it being 'new character', and update it accordingly.
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby dudiobugtron » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:51 am UTC

OK, no new feedback came in, so we're good to go. Place your bids now!
Remember that your positive bids can't add to more than 100, and your negative bids can't add to less than -100.

(Don't bid on public powers, btw.)

dudiobugtron wrote:Catalogue of Powers

The Recruiter - Whenever a new character joins, you gain energy equal to this power's power-level. (This only works at the start of the turn when the character actually joins, not when they submit their sign-up.)

Transcendence - When you die, count the number of turns you survived for. Your next character gets 5 times that number as bonus starting energy. (If you die in your first round, then that's 0 turns survived for.)

Prevenge - If a player attacks you this turn, double your attack value against them this turn. This is calculated after any redirects.

Bus Driving - Use 7 Energy and choose 2 players; all actions applied towards either of the players is redirected to be applied to the other one.

Dollar Auction - Burn half, rounded down, of your energy, and choose a target. The burnt energy is added to your defense. Attacks the target with 100 minus the powerlevel of this power unblockable damage.

I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve - Assign 2*n energy to this, where n is whatever. If anyone attacks you with less than n (but more than zero) energy, attacks them with 2*n energy.

Dig in - When you use this power, you cannot assign energy to attack. Gain energy equal to the cost of this power.

Carnivorous plants - Use no more than once per turn. Spend 20 energy to create 4 plant sidekicks with 10 energy. The plants have a Poison power:
Poison: whenever this plant deals damage with an attack, its targets are poisoned, and will take the same damage next turn as poison damage(in addition to the possible attacks of next turn). Plants cannot have other powers, and you cannot have more than 10 plants.

Teleport - Spend 30 energy to avoid all damage that does not come from powers. Additionally, you can change the targets of your attack at the start of the resolution phase.

False Gift - In every turn where you are alive, you may spend 15 to choose an opponent to whom you donate a cloaking device as a gift. Players gain an additional 20 defense against regular attacks for each gift they have. However, the cloaking devices are actually stuffed with plastic explosives. During your turn, you may detonate some or all of the gifts for free, cancelling the defense bonus and doing 25 (blockable) damage per gift, provided that you did not detonate any gifts during the previous 4 turns.
Priorities: handing out gifts comes before regular attacks and detonations come after regular attacks.

Swiss Army Knife - In every turn, you may use or more of the following tools in your Swiss Army knife:
• Screwdriver (spend 25): screw a player of your choice by doing 8 unblockable damage.
• Magnifying glass (spend 20): magnify all damage done by you and to you by 50% this round.
• Laser Pointer (burn 5X):Choose X opponents. Point all targeted powers used this round against those opponents at a player of your choice. This power overrides any other redirections.
• Permanent marker (burn X): modify any power level or player energy in the game by up to X (X is a positive integer) in either direction.

Thorns - Each player that attacks you takes unblockable damage equal to your used defense. Used means that it has reduced the damage of an attack.

Time Field - The player with this power must submit moves one turn in advance. (On turn 1, for example, the player would submit their moves for turns 1 and 2.) (A player only must use their pre-submitted moves when they still have Time Field. Any invalid moves default to defense.)

Assassinate - Burn X to attack a single player for 3X. If that player dies, you gain X energy after all damage calculations. This power may only be used once each turn, and the user of this power cannot attack in the same turn this power is used.

Infected - If you die and no other players are infected, the player(s) with the highest energy total become(s) infected. If you are Infected, you can't gain energy or new powers.

Mathematician - When your total defense in a round is a prime number, you gain 10 energy at the end of that round.

Meta Ninja - You have an unblockable attack of power 50 minus Meta Ninja's power level. You can use this attack up to once per round.

-------

Public powers (Every player may choose to purchase this every round (up to restrictions due to other powers). Energy is spent rather than lost.)

Defense Gambit - Power Level: X - Choose a target opponent. If the target spends less than X on regular defense during this round, they receive X energy at the end of the round. If they spend more than X, you receive X energy at the end of the round.
Last edited by dudiobugtron on Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:58 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby dudiobugtron » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:57 am UTC

Bids:
Spoiler:
The Recruiter 2
Transcendence 35
Prevenge 1
Bus Driving 1
Dollar Auction 1
I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve 1
Dig in 11
Carnivorous plants 0
Teleport 0
False Gift 0
Swiss Army Knife 0
Thorns 21
Time Field 1
Assassinate 0
Infected -50
Mathematician 9
Meta Ninja -50
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby Elmach » Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:50 am UTC

Fridgish question:

Does Recruiter count the player's first turn?

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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby Elmach » Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:59 am UTC

Bids
Spoiler:
The Recruiter - 6
Transcendence - 0
Prevenge - 10
Bus Driving - 12
Dollar Auction - 4
I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve - 4
Dig in - 8
Carnivorous plants - 4
Teleport - -20
False Gift - 9
Swiss Army Knife - 15
Thorns - 7
Time Field - -42
Assassinate - 12
Infected - -22
Mathematician - 7
Meta Ninja - 10

Question: We can have positive bids that total to more than a hundred, but if we win them all, we die, correct?
Last edited by Elmach on Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:16 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby dudiobugtron » Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:39 am UTC

Question: We can have positive bids that total to more than a hundred, but if we win them all, we die, correct?

Nope - your positive bids can not total more than 100, mostly for that reason. It also forces more strategic bidding, in my opinion.

If you have positive bids which total exactly 100, and win them all, then you still die though.

Elmach wrote:Fridgish question:

Does Recruiter count the player's first turn?

How I intended it to work is like this:

Recruiter has a power level of 35 (say). New-player-7 submits their new character during round 4, while everyone else is fighting. At the start of round 5, New-player-7 will have their character ready and be able to submit moves, and the player with recruiter would have 35 extra energy to spend in round 5.

If New-player-7 also had recruiter, they wouldn't get the bonus from themselves joining, of course.
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby Elmach » Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:18 am UTC

dudiobugtron wrote:Recruiter has a power level of 35 (say). New-player-7 submits their new character during round 4, while everyone else is fighting. At the start of round 5, New-player-7 will have their character ready and be able to submit moves, and the player with recruiter would have 35 extra energy to spend in round 5.

If New-player-7 also had recruiter, they wouldn't get the bonus from themselves joining, of course.


What I mean is: Let's say, hypothetically, seven people, including a recruiter, join during round 0.

Does the recruiter get an additional 35*6 energy for the first round?

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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby dudiobugtron » Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:22 am UTC

It would be an exceptionally badly balanced power if that were the case. So I hope it doesn't work like that. I certainly intended it not to. If other players want it to work like that, though, I can live with being overruled.
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby VrookLamar » Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:24 am UTC

I agree it shouldn't work like that.
I will post bids soon.

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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby Lawrencelot » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:41 am UTC

Bids:
Spoiler:
The Recruiter: 6
Dollar Auction: 16
Dig in: 36
Thorns: 21
Time field: -19
Infected: 4
Meta ninja: 2

All other powers: 1

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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby Snark » Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:52 pm UTC

Bids:
Spoiler:
Recruiter - 1
Transcendence - 3
Prevenge - 18
Bus Driving - 4
Dollar Auction - 1
I like less... - 1
Dig in - 9
Carnivorous plants - 8
Teleport - 16
False Gift - 3
Swiss Army Knife - 3
Thorns - 9
Time Field - -95
Assassinate - 2
Infected - -5
Mathematician - 2
Meta Ninja - 20
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Re: Never-Ending Rumble [Signups are always open]

Postby firesoul31 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:48 pm UTC

Bids:
Spoiler:
-20 for Infected
-20 for Time Field
36 for Thorns
15 for Meta Ninja
0 for all others
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