Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby _infina_ » Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:19 pm UTC

I send 10 soldiers to Lord She.
Resources:
10 Gold
1 Wood
6 Stone
0 Ore
17 Soldiers
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby kerfuffleninja » Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:39 pm UTC

Yikes, was our last court really in the very beginning of August? I ask for 4 soldiers in tax, by noon UTC Friday.

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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby skellious » Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:26 pm UTC

Lords and Ladies of the court, I do hereby propose that, following new and exciting technological developments in the world of smelting being descovered elsewhere in the world, we too should invest in trading for this new furnace technology. It would allow us to smelt ore and produce up to five times the existing amount of gold we do now. This will make our country rich and profitable.

I therefore propose that we adopt this technology as soon as possible.

I sign and support my petition.

[OOC: this petition will up the production of a furnace so that 1 ore creates 5 units of gold.]
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby She » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:35 pm UTC

I support L Skellious' petition.

I accept the soldiers from _infina_. I'm not entirely sure, but I believe that resource transactions can only be made the following two ways:
1. Taxing, where I announce the tax and then a while later says I come and collect it.
2. Trading, "with the consent of both parties" meaning one party has to propose something and the other has to accept.
That is, not just be sent to someone and bam, they're his.
If noone wants to be nitpicky, I'll treat my vassal's "I send resources to She" as a trade proposal, in that I must accept the goods or they are sent back. So yeah, I acept the soldiers. Now the interesting point is when you start counting the hour that it takes for soldiers to change owners. If anyone has a clever argument, you're welcome, but for now I'll just avoid sending them anywhere else within an hour from now, so that there's no risk of me cheating.
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby skellious » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:20 pm UTC

well the logic is when someone dispatches soldiers, they leave. they dont hang around waiting for a reply from someone else. so I would say the 1 hour is from dispatch, not reciept.

And remember, negotiation may take place outside this thread.
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby e^iπ+1=0 » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:16 pm UTC

skellious wrote:well the logic is when someone dispatches soldiers, they leave. they dont hang around waiting for a reply from someone else. so I would say the 1 hour is from dispatch, not reciept.
I disagree. It's a trade and so the terms would be agreed upon before anything is sent. If I say "Hey Skellious, I'll give you a million dollars if you bla bla bla whatever" I don't send the million dollars and hope you agree, I send it after you confirm.
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby skellious » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:21 pm UTC

oh sorry, i missed the arguement. I didnt realise She was only argueing that it's not currently allowed under the law. talking of which, lets change that. but im too tired to write a petition tonight, so if no one else does I shall tomrorow.
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby _infina_ » Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:07 pm UTC

I petition to change Law 109, subsection a, to the following.
a) There exist a number of resources. They are gold, wood, stone, ore, and soldiers, and are all measured in units. All citizens may hold resources. Resources can be traded freely with the consent of both parties, or gifted from one citizen to another.


I sign and support this petition.
Spoiler:
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby skellious » Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:24 pm UTC

_infina_ wrote:I petition to change Law 109, subsection a, to the following.
a) There exist a number of resources. They are gold, wood, stone, ore, and soldiers, and are all measured in units. All citizens may hold resources. Resources can be traded freely with the consent of both parties, or gifted from one citizen to another.
.


I support this petition.
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby e^iπ+1=0 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:45 am UTC

Gah, there are a zillion petitions and things to deal with for next court.
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby skellious » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:57 am UTC

"never put off until tomorrow that which can be done today" ... I'm going to get hanged for saying that, aren't I? :S

If you really can't face the task, let us know and we'll sort something out.
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby e^iπ+1=0 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:30 am UTC

Eh, I'll get it done. It'll just be a very long post and take quite a while. I'll try to have it done some time tomorrow, but I still have summer schoolwork I'm working on, plus other life type things like talking to my girlfriend. (Is there anyway to say something like that without it sounding like this?)
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby skellious » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:12 am UTC

e^iπ+1=0 wrote:Eh, I'll get it done. It'll just be a very long post and take quite a while. I'll try to have it done some time tomorrow, but I still have summer schoolwork I'm working on, plus other life type things like talking to my girlfriend. (Is there anyway to say something like that without it sounding like this?)


we know man, that's why if you need people to help you with some of it you could deligate some of it in or out of game. (like appointing someone to track petitions)

not really, but you are still much much less annoying than my friends who go on and on about their partners... being single in a small (by UK standards, so probably nothing at all by US standards) town sucks. still, i move to a city the other end of the country in a week, so a chance to change that!
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby e^iπ+1=0 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:17 pm UTC

It's generally not too much of a problem, it's just that this time people kept on writing more petitions and I wanted to give everyone enough time to discuss and vote on them.

In any case, time for the king to get some sleep. Night all.
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby eggdudeguy » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:57 pm UTC

skellious wrote:Lords and Ladies of the court, I do hereby propose that, following new and exciting technological developments in the world of smelting being descovered elsewhere in the world, we too should invest in trading for this new furnace technology. It would allow us to smelt ore and produce up to five times the existing amount of gold we do now. This will make our country rich and profitable.

I therefore propose that we adopt this technology as soon as possible.

I sign and support my petition.

[OOC: this petition will up the production of a furnace so that 1 ore creates 5 units of gold.]


I support!


_infina_ wrote:I petition to change Law 109, subsection a, to the following.
a) There exist a number of resources. They are gold, wood, stone, ore, and soldiers, and are all measured in units. All citizens may hold resources. Resources can be traded freely with the consent of both parties, or gifted from one citizen to another.


I sign and support this petition.


I support!
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby She » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:33 pm UTC

I send 5 soldiers to attack the free lands of L kerfuffleninja. They will start subduing the local populace immediately, as no defensive forces are present. (Nobles' troops can't defend)
I send 1 soldier to attack the free lands of L kerfuffleninja. I could have sent 6 men in one attack, but they can only conquer 5 per attack. The extra men are for whe attacking someone who can defend, and let some of your men die in the battle and then still ahve up to 5 left to start conquering.

The "one hour travel time" applies here too, so in one hour my soldiers will arrive and take the land. I don't think there's anything to do to stop this, though. Maybe reapportion your free lands to your vassals; I don't know what souls happen if the army arrived and didn't find the region they were supposed to attack in the state they expected. Maybe the attck would just auto-fail and they'd come back.


On another note: I hereby give notice that I intend to tax my vassal on 7 gold.
Infina; if you want 5 soldiers back, you can have them. Consider that a trade proposal.
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby skellious » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:03 pm UTC

she, as per the defensive pact between Lord K and myself, I must unfortunately declare my vassal and myself to be at war with you until such time as you cease to attack Lord K.

In happier news, good to see my vassal is supporting things I support :) I have a great vassal :)
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby _infina_ » Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:19 am UTC

skellious wrote:she, as per the defensive pact between Lord K and myself, I must unfortunately declare my vassal and myself to be at war with you until such time as you cease to attack Lord K.

In happier news, good to see my vassal is supporting things I support :) I have a great vassal :)

Do you really want to attack me? Lord She has no free lands, and I can defend rather well, with my 17 soldiers to the 4 you could use from eggdudeguy. I would suggest you break your pact with Lord Kerfuffleninja, and instead align yourself with Lord She. We are a more powerful ally.
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby WHSTech » Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:52 am UTC

Umm, shoot. I should probably do something.

I collect the resources generated by my 6ql which amount to:
6 gold, 3 wood, 2 stone, 1 ore, and 1 soldier.

Current Resources:
6 gold
3 wood
4 stone
1 ore
18 soldiers
Buildings:
Barracks
Archery Range
Lumber Mill
Mine
Smelter
Siege Factory
1 Wall

[//The next part is private but I'm posting it here for continuity and for meta-record keeping, if that's allowed.//]
To Skellious:
I propose the following series of actions which would result in your acquisition of up to 11 additional quaterlands, an active vassal, and a large number of both soldiers and buildings.

1: You remove 1 ql from Eggdudeguy's fiefdom and offer me a fiefdom immediately after I renounce my fiefdom to Lord Kerfuffleninja
2: I accept your offer and immediately attack what was previously my fiefdom under Lord K. Regardless of whether the buildings are allowed to function after my departure, the land will be captured as Lord K will be unable to defend his free lands from my attack.
3: After capturing the 6ql, I attack Levi's fiefdom under Lord K, which will also fall immediately due to his lack of soldiers.
4: You are free to do whatever you wish with the 11ql that have just been captured (although I would request that I receive at least the 6ql I previously owned to operate, if not the entirety of the captured lands).

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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby e^iπ+1=0 » Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:56 am UTC

Woke up really late today (6pm), ate some food, watched a movie, still have reading to do. Court's not coming today. Maybe tomorrow, but when I put dates for things I tend not to want to do them. If doing court stays part of a game, I'll get to it sooner than if it's an obligation.
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby skellious » Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:02 am UTC

WHSTech wrote:[//The next part is private but I'm posting it here for continuity and for meta-record keeping, if that's allowed.//]
To Skellious:
I propose the following series of actions which would result in your acquisition of up to 11 additional quaterlands, an active vassal, and a large number of both soldiers and buildings.

1: You remove 1 ql from Eggdudeguy's fiefdom and offer me a fiefdom immediately after I renounce my fiefdom to Lord Kerfuffleninja
2: I accept your offer and immediately attack what was previously my fiefdom under Lord K. Regardless of whether the buildings are allowed to function after my departure, the land will be captured as Lord K will be unable to defend his free lands from my attack.
3: After capturing the 6ql, I attack Levi's fiefdom under Lord K, which will also fall immediately due to his lack of soldiers.
4: You are free to do whatever you wish with the 11ql that have just been captured (although I would request that I receive at least the 6ql I previously owned to operate, if not the entirety of the captured lands).

A darstardly plan, but I thought when you were no longer a vassal you immidiately lost all resources and buildings, since you have nowhere to keep them. they would have to be traded to me first.

Regardless of that, I cannot help but feel loyal to lord K, so I am afraid I will not contemplate such an idea!

[OOC: this is always my problem in games like Civ IV as well, I try to win without betraying anyone :P]

[AOOC: Additionally, I note that we appear to have lost the rules for overthrowing the king somewhere along the line.]
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby e^iπ+1=0 » Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:17 am UTC

Rules for that are quite simple: Write a petition and get enough people to support it. Admittedly, that's not very in character, but it is a way. If you'd like another way, go ahead and write a petition for that too.
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby skellious » Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:10 pm UTC

e^iπ+1=0 wrote:Rules for that are quite simple: Write a petition and get enough people to support it. Admittedly, that's not very in character, but it is a way. If you'd like another way, go ahead and write a petition for that too.


I origionally wrote some when i wrote the starting rules but they dissapeared somewhere it seems.
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby She » Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:18 pm UTC

Court has to stay part of the game, but I do believe we are ready for a shift in whose responsibility it is. It currently rests completely on the King, and it has become a lot of stuff to do since it was enacted. I propose that we try to build rules for the following procedure:

A Call to Court can be made by anyone if enough time has passed. The player doing this must in the same message post a rundown of all petitions that have been posted since last court. At the very least require names and authors, maybe even full text of them.

Any player may then say that they go to the court. Then some system for benefiting those present and/or pnishing those absent. I'm thinking some or all of the following:
- Your petition is voided if you're not there.
- Your petition is voided if you're not there and personally count the votes for it and present them to the king.
- Your vote isn't counted unless you, your vassal or your noble is there.
- You get at least one vote if your there, regardless of standing otherwise.
- Attacking someone who's at court is a crime.
- You cannot take resource, building or soldier related actions when you're there.
- You get moved down one step on the List if you're not there.

Some of those things. This would result in that all petitions and their votes are posted have been summarized and posted for reference within a few posts of the call to court. The King then only has to review the votes, say what passes and what doesn't, repost the law and repost the List. If the King wants to, e can do everything by emself anyway - call to court, gather up petitions, count the votes, and then go on as normal. But e can also wait until someone writes most of it up for em, someone who has something to gain - someone with a petition about to pass, or someone being attacked who wants the safety of the court for a while.


By the way, I attack Levi's fiefdom with 5 soldiers. This should render em competely landless. As with last time, I will wait an hour before I consider the attack complete.
The previous conquest has been completed, and I allot the 6 ql gained to _infina_. This leaves me without free lands and em with a 23 ql fiefdom.
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby skellious » Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:02 am UTC

I like She's Idea a lot, it is a very good solution.

However, She's behaviour is causeing much disarray among the established nobles.
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby She » Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:21 am UTC

Someone has to game the system. The solution to the problem of "now I have all the land => now I have all the soldiers => now noone can take the land from me" is that we start cycling the monarchy. If this is combo'd with my other idea of not having the King be responsible for the game's survival as much as just having power over voting, then we could have a system for a powerful noble to go for the crown - and if e fails, be cast to the lowliest rank. Whether e succeeds or fails, the land will revert to a more stable power balance for a while.
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby skellious » Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:40 am UTC

She wrote:Someone has to game the system. The solution to the problem of "now I have all the land => now I have all the soldiers => now noone can take the land from me" is that we start cycling the monarchy. If this is combo'd with my other idea of not having the King be responsible for the game's survival as much as just having power over voting, then we could have a system for a powerful noble to go for the crown - and if e fails, be cast to the lowliest rank. Whether e succeeds or fails, the land will revert to a more stable power balance for a while.


i like it.

and i know someone has to, but in caracter Lord Skellious is extremely angry at She for attacking his noble Friend.
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby She » Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:15 am UTC

In his County Residence, Lord She is pacing up and down the main hall when Infina enters.
- Any news? He impatiently asks.
- L Skellious is very angry with you, sire.
- Tell me something I didn't know.
- He has declared war.
- As expected, go on. Has e mustered any troops, prepared any assaults? What do our spies say?
- Nothing, sire, Infina answered. Eir county is as weak as L Kerfuffleninja's was.
- Any word from the King?
- Rumour has it court is to be held soon, otherwise nothing.
- One would have thought e would have at least reacted to the news. This has been the first battling since the founding of Munroevia, after all. Maybe e's preparing to take action at court, the Lord said, a hint of fear in his voice.
- Remember, sire, that the Law explicitly allows for one Noble to seize another's lands by force.
- It does, but we have still made ourselves some enemies with this course of action.
- Indeed, sire. And I take it you understand we cannot stop now. What is our next target? WHStech of Kerfuffleninja is the only one strong enough to stand against us, but if we were to take L Skellious's county first we could muster a bigger army.
- I need time to think.
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby WHSTech » Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:15 pm UTC

To Skellious:
I will be remaining with Lord K and assisting in the fight against She.
[End]

I feed 3 wood and 3 gold into my archery range and produce 4 soldiers.
I feed 4 stone into my mine producing 2 ore.
I feed 2 ore into my smelter producing 2 gold.
I feed 2 gold into my lumber mill producing 1 wood.
I feed 2 gold, 1 stone, and 1 ore into my barracks producing 3 soldiers.
I transfer command of 25 soldiers to Lord K effective immediately and give Lord K permission to use my buildings as he wishes.
Current Resources:
1 gold
0 wood
0 stone
0 ore
0 soldiers (25 transferred to Lord K)
Buildings:
Barracks
Archery Range
Lumber Mill
Mine
Smelter
Siege Factory
1 Wall

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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby _infina_ » Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:22 pm UTC

I give 6 soldiers to Lord She for any lands gained as part of the soldiers conquest as part of my fief.
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby kerfuffleninja » Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:28 pm UTC

I accept WHSTech's soldiers. I now have 37. I send them to attack Infinia's fiefdom, until ey have no soldiers. The one hour period starts now, at 10:28 AM UTC.

Edit: Actually, it seems they have to arrive at my place before they can go to infinia's. Therefore, the 2 hour period before attack started at 10:28.

Edit 2: As it is past 12:28, here is the outcome of the battle.

Code: Select all

                Troop quantities
            Infinia      Kerfuffleninja
Start       11           37
Attack 1    7            35
Attack 2    3            33
Attack 3    0            31


I have updated the wiki to reflect this. I order my troops to She's free lands, where they shall kill all her soldiers. The time is now 13:00 UTC.

Edit 3: As it is past 14:00 UTC, I order my soldiers to attack. The outcome of the battle is as follows.

Code: Select all

                Troop quantities
            She      Kerfuffleninja
Start       6        31
Attack 1    1        30
Attack 2    0        29

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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby WHSTech » Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:14 pm UTC

Also, I think Lord K has also already taken 10ql from infina/She. The attack on infina kills his soldiers and takes the maximum 5ql per assault. The assault against She kills all of the soldiers and takes the 5ql of free land which She hasn't distributed to any vassal yet. I've updated the wiki.

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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby skellious » Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:23 pm UTC

Well done, friends, we have proved that honour and loyalty win out over greed!
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_infina_
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Location: R'lyeh

Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby _infina_ » Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:43 pm UTC

If Lord She had arrived before Lord Kerfuffleninja to make the attack, we would have won.
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kerfuffleninja
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby kerfuffleninja » Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:51 pm UTC

WHSTech wrote:Also, I think Lord K has also already taken 10ql from infina/She. The attack on infina kills his soldiers and takes the maximum 5ql per assault. The assault against She kills all of the soldiers and takes the 5ql of free land which She hasn't distributed to any vassal yet. I've updated the wiki.


False. Taking of land can only occur once subduing of the local populace occurs, and all soldiers in the area must be taken care of before that can occur.

Since I am already in She's free lands, I use 5 of my soldiers to attack them. She now has 0 ql of free land, and a 23 ql county. I have 26 soldiers remaining. I send 4 separate attacks of 5 soldiers each to infinia's fiefdom, along with one attack of 3 soldiers. Once they arrive, they are to take the remainder of infinia's land. Once this occurs, I shall reapportion land amongst my vassals. I order the other 3 soldiers of mine to return to my county.

The 1 hour moving period begins at the time of this post.

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kerfuffleninja
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby kerfuffleninja » Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:08 pm UTC

My soldiers attack. I now have 34 ql, and She has none. I give Levi 1 ql of this, and the other 33 to WHSTech. I offer the remaining 3 soldiers to WHSTech.

Edit: As a token of appreciation for standing by me during wartime, I offer Skellious 7 gold, 3 wood, and 3 stone. Additionally, I offer eggdudeguy 3 gold, 2 wood, and 1 stone.

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WHSTech
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby WHSTech » Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:33 pm UTC

I accept the offer of 3 soldiers.

I collect the resources generated by my 33ql amounting to:
33 gold, 16 wood, 11 stone, 8 ore, and 5 soldiers.

Current Resources
34 gold
16 wood
11 stone
8 ore
5 soldiers (3 from Lord K arrive in 1 hour)
Buildings
Barracks
Archery Range
Lumber Mill
Mine
Smelter
Siege Factory
1 Wall

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skellious
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Location: Dundee, UK
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby skellious » Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:22 pm UTC

I accept with thanks the offer of the 7 gold, 3 wood, and 3 stone.

I pass the wood and stone on to my vassal.


I now have 8 gold.
kerfuffleninja wrote: Minutes are the same length in Europe, right?

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kerfuffleninja
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby kerfuffleninja » Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:41 pm UTC

My dearest Skellious:
I kindly remind you to update not only your resource holdings, but mine, too, as part of the transfer.
Sincerely,
Lord Kerfuffleninja

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skellious
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Re: Munroevia (Nomic 6.1)

Postby skellious » Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:07 pm UTC

oh dear, my memory is getting worse :S many thanks for reminding me :)
kerfuffleninja wrote: Minutes are the same length in Europe, right?


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