What happens at around 200°C?

For the discussion of the sciences. Physics problems, chemistry equations, biology weirdness, it all goes here.

Moderators: gmalivuk, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
Ralenti
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:21 am UTC
Location: Chile

What happens at around 200°C?

Postby Ralenti » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:04 pm UTC

I have a soldering iron connected to a light dimmer, and need to know when it's around 200 deg. Celsius (~390F) without the use of a thermometer, because really, I can't afford/be bothered to buy one just to use it once (plus McGyvering things is more fun). In other words, what experiment can I conduct to find when it's close to 200°C? (not necessary for it to be precise at all, I'd be happy with an error of 20 Kelvin). I've googled and can't seem to find anything (can't actually think of keywords: "list of temperatures" "boiling points of everyday substances"... so I thought of you guys, maybe you can help me out.
Thanks a bunch.
Well, that's just like uh... your opinion, man...

User avatar
frezik
Posts: 1336
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:52 pm UTC
Location: Schrödinger's Box

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby frezik » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:20 pm UTC

There are thermistors that go that high for only a couple bucks on Digi-Key. You could program an Arduino to turn on an led when the temp reaches a the threshold. Since you've obviously got a soldering iron around, I'm sure you'll find plenty of future uses for both the thermistor and the Arduino.
I do not agree with the beer you drink, but will defend to the death your right to drink it

Matterwave1
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:01 pm UTC

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby Matterwave1 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:37 pm UTC

Lithium melts at 181C, and Selenium melts at 221C. Iodine boils at 184C. But I'd imagine getting a thermometer would be easier than to get those...(in a pure state anyways).

Seraph
Posts: 343
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:51 pm UTC

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby Seraph » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:44 pm UTC

Have you considered solder for you soldering iron?
91% Tin 9% Zinc (a fairly common composition) melts at around 198C.

User avatar
Ralenti
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:21 am UTC
Location: Chile

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby Ralenti » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:18 pm UTC

I'll try the solder. I don't know why I was under the impression that lead-free alloys melted at 300°C+, but thanks, I was praying this wouldn't turn into a "mass of a feather" thread! :D
Well, that's just like uh... your opinion, man...

User avatar
Charlie!
Posts: 2035
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:20 pm UTC

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby Charlie! » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:25 am UTC

If that fails, ethylene glycol (the stuff that makes antifreeze bad for you) boils at pretty much 200 C. Unfortunately I can't tell you to just go boil some antifreeze since it's got other stuff (like 50% water) in it.

Still, if you've got some laying around, it might be useful :P
Some people tell me I laugh too much. To them I say, "ha ha ha!"

Seraph
Posts: 343
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:51 pm UTC

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby Seraph » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:37 am UTC

You have to make sure you get the right solder.
Lead solder melts at about 180C. Most lead free solders are 20-40 degrees warmer then that. So if you are not that picky just about anything will do, but if you want to get really close to 200C then your best bet is a Sn91Zn9 or a Sn89Zn8Bi3. They tend to be lousy for general use however (Zinc will oxidize). Tin-Silver-Copper and Tin-Copper solders will be around 220C, while plumbing solder will be around 240C.

Make sure you stay away from anything with bismith or Indium, which tend to have very low melting points.

User avatar
Tass
Posts: 1909
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:21 pm UTC
Location: Niels Bohr Institute, Copenhagen.

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby Tass » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:52 am UTC

Charlie! wrote:If that fails, ethylene glycol (the stuff that makes antifreeze bad for you) boils at pretty much 200 C. Unfortunately I can't tell you to just go boil some antifreeze since it's got other stuff (like 50% water) in it.

Still, if you've got some laying around, it might be useful :P


That sounds like a spectaculary bad idea. Why not boil some mercury while youre at it?

You mention it yourself, etylene glycol is pretty bad for you.

User avatar
Bobber
contains Disodium Phosphate
Posts: 1357
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:09 pm UTC
Location: Holme, Denmark.
Contact:

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby Bobber » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:26 am UTC

Seraph wrote:[...]your best bet is [...] a Sn89Zn8Bi3.[...]
Make sure you stay away from anything with bismith<sic> [..]


Wut.
I don't twist the truth, I just make it complex.
mrbaggins wrote:There are two tools in life, duct tape and WD40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the tape. If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.

User avatar
meat.paste
Posts: 404
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:08 pm UTC

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby meat.paste » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:36 pm UTC

Tass wrote:
Charlie! wrote:If that fails, ethylene glycol (the stuff that makes antifreeze bad for you) boils at pretty much 200 C. Unfortunately I can't tell you to just go boil some antifreeze since it's got other stuff (like 50% water) in it.

Still, if you've got some laying around, it might be useful :P


That sounds like a spectaculary bad idea. Why not boil some mercury while youre at it?

You mention it yourself, etylene glycol is pretty bad for you.


Meh. A little [CH2(OH)]2 when inhaled wont be a problem. I've been in cars with bad heater coils where more than a little bit gets vaporized and my kidneys survived with no problem. Unlike Hg, ethylene glycol is a poison whose effects surface rapidly.
Huh? What?

User avatar
JazzyG
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:01 pm UTC

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby JazzyG » Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:20 pm UTC

Would it be rude of me to ask what you want your soldering iron at 200 degrees for? I am curious.

Seraph
Posts: 343
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:51 pm UTC

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby Seraph » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:17 pm UTC

Bobber wrote:
Seraph wrote:[...]your best bet is [...] a Sn89Zn8Bi3.[...]
Make sure you stay away from anything with bismuth[..]


Wut.

Good point.
Make sure you stay away from anything else with bismuth, particulary things with a lot of it.

User avatar
thoughtfully
Posts: 2253
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:25 am UTC
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Contact:

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby thoughtfully » Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:05 pm UTC

Tass wrote:
Charlie! wrote:If that fails, ethylene glycol (the stuff that makes antifreeze bad for you) boils at pretty much 200 C. Unfortunately I can't tell you to just go boil some antifreeze since it's got other stuff (like 50% water) in it.

Still, if you've got some laying around, it might be useful :P


That sounds like a spectaculary bad idea. Why not boil some mercury while youre at it?

You mention it yourself, etylene glycol is pretty bad for you.

Ethylene Glycol is poisonous when ingested in quantity. Although, you probably could get poisoned by the vapors if you really tried hard. The vapors from the solder are probably more harmful. Always ventilate :)
Image
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

User avatar
Charlie!
Posts: 2035
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:20 pm UTC

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby Charlie! » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:51 pm UTC

Tass wrote:
Charlie! wrote:If that fails, ethylene glycol (the stuff that makes antifreeze bad for you) boils at pretty much 200 C. Unfortunately I can't tell you to just go boil some antifreeze since it's got other stuff (like 50% water) in it.

Still, if you've got some laying around, it might be useful :P


That sounds like a spectaculary bad idea. Why not boil some mercury while youre at it?

You mention it yourself, etylene glycol is pretty bad for you.

Yeah, unlike mercury, which is a neurotoxin and is cumulative in bad ways, ethylene glycol is bad for you because it overwhelms your liver's ability to handle lots of it (or lots of oxalic acid). Although I'm sure you could damage yourself with it without acute liver failure, dripping a drop of it onto hot metal will lead to a kinda bad sweet smell, a few molecules in your lungs, and a few nanograms extra oxalic acid in your pee.
Some people tell me I laugh too much. To them I say, "ha ha ha!"

User avatar
Ralenti
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:21 am UTC
Location: Chile

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby Ralenti » Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:34 pm UTC

JazzyG wrote:Would it be rude of me to ask what you want your soldering iron at 200 degrees for? I am curious.

Home made vaporizer, for clean consumption of marijuana.
Well, that's just like uh... your opinion, man...

Mr. Freeman
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:09 am UTC

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby Mr. Freeman » Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:39 am UTC

Wait... you're using the soldering iron to MAKE the vaporizer, or you're going to vaporize the plant with the soldering iron?
If the former, then what do you need the temp. control for?
If the latter, two things:
1. Probably shouldn't use a soldering iron because you'll be vaporizing the lead on it (I assume you've used Pb on this iron before). (Although I'm not sure if it will be in anything more than negligible quantities. Maybe it'll be fine after all.)
2. How do you plan on keeping the temp. constant? Never mind, dimmer switch.
3. What do you mean you'll use it only once?

User avatar
eternauta3k
Posts: 519
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:19 am UTC
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby eternauta3k » Sat May 02, 2009 8:28 pm UTC

Mr. Freeman wrote:3. What do you mean you'll use it only once?
It's his plan for world destruction.
VectorZero wrote:It takes a real man to impact his own radius

That's right, slash your emo-wrists and spill all your emo-globin

User avatar
Bobber
contains Disodium Phosphate
Posts: 1357
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:09 pm UTC
Location: Holme, Denmark.
Contact:

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby Bobber » Sun May 03, 2009 12:59 am UTC

eternauta3k wrote:
Mr. Freeman wrote:3. What do you mean you'll use it only once?
It's his plan for world destruction.
Maybe he plans on magically overdosing on THC from smoking marijuana.
I don't twist the truth, I just make it complex.
mrbaggins wrote:There are two tools in life, duct tape and WD40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the tape. If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.

Rentsy
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:13 am UTC

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby Rentsy » Sun May 03, 2009 9:21 pm UTC

A vaporizer is a way of inhaling THC-laced water without the carcinogenic smoke.

(Seemed like someone had to say it)

User avatar
Ralenti
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:21 am UTC
Location: Chile

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby Ralenti » Tue May 05, 2009 1:51 am UTC

Haha good one rents.
Mr. Freeman wrote:Wait... you're using the soldering iron to MAKE the vaporizer, or you're going to vaporize the plant with the soldering iron?
If the former, then what do you need the temp. control for?
If the latter, two things:
1. Probably shouldn't use a soldering iron because you'll be vaporizing the lead on it (I assume you've used Pb on this iron before). (Although I'm not sure if it will be in anything more than negligible quantities. Maybe it'll be fine after all.)
2. How do you plan on keeping the temp. constant? Never mind, dimmer switch.
3. What do you mean you'll use it only once?

I bought a new soldering iron, don't worry, I'm not that careless :) I'm using it to make the vaporizer, I'm using an aluminium plate with a nail through it instead of the tip, as a bowl to hold the cannabis. The iron is held upright in an enclosure with a jar to hold the vapour. Much like this one, only more... homemade. The things are way overpriced.
I only need to check the temperature once to see where I should set the switch for a constant near-200C temperature (so just to clarify, I'm not doing this with the bowl, I'm doing it with the original tip, which will end up in the rubbish).
The theory is that the active ingredients of cannabis (THC and other cannabinoids) boil at around 200C, but the plant matter burns at a higher temperature. And as I'm sure many of you know (I certainly hope so, anyway) it's the burning of the plant that's dangerous and damaging to our bodies, not the active ingredients, so with a vaporizer you are able to control the temperature of your marijuana so as to inhale just the active principles, for a quick, easier to titrate, and most importantly, safe delivery of the drug.

edit: haha yes, that's pretty much it, rents.
Well, that's just like uh... your opinion, man...

Carnildo
Posts: 2023
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:43 am UTC

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby Carnildo » Tue May 05, 2009 2:56 am UTC

A soldering iron is a simple resistive heater: a given amount of electricity in results in a given amount of heat out. The resulting temperature depends on how fast the heat is removed from the soldering iron: by atmospheric convection, by radiation, by vaporizing THC, etc. A setting that will give 200°C for the original tip and your measurement system won't be right for the vaporizer tip and cannabis. Most likely it'll be too low, because the increased surface area of the bowl will transfer heat to the atmosphere much faster.

User avatar
Ralenti
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:21 am UTC
Location: Chile

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby Ralenti » Tue May 05, 2009 4:43 pm UTC

Agreed, I thought about this too, but all I needed was a ballpark setting, it would be a bigger inconvenience if the temperature was too high.
The thing is currently plugged at the highest setting, burning whatever they put into those things, it has been sitting there for like 5 minutes (I'm actually still watching it, it's right next to me) and it stopped smoking. I'll do this a couple of times just to be sure.
Well, that's just like uh... your opinion, man...

User avatar
PM 2Ring
Posts: 3715
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:19 pm UTC
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby PM 2Ring » Fri May 08, 2009 6:09 pm UTC

You'd be able to run your vapourizer at a higher temperature if you exclude oxygen from it. This would increase the vapourization rate, although it'd make the device more cumbersome having to hook it up to a nitrogen tank. If you do try this, you'll probably want to add oxygen to the vapour output to avoid asphyxiation.

Also, your vapourizer will run a lot cleaner on cannabis resin (hashish) than on marijuana. I assume you know how to do resin extraction using ice / water...

User avatar
eternauta3k
Posts: 519
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:19 am UTC
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby eternauta3k » Fri May 08, 2009 7:46 pm UTC

PM 2Ring wrote:You'd be able to run your vapourizer at a higher temperature if you exclude oxygen from it. This would increase the vapourization rate, although it'd make the device more cumbersome having to hook it up to a nitrogen tank. If you do try this, you'll probably want to add oxygen to the vapour output to avoid asphyxiation.

Also, your vapourizer will run a lot cleaner on cannabis resin (hashish) than on marijuana. I assume you know how to do resin extraction using ice / water...
Use carbon dioxide, like those small canisters you use to make sparkling water. No danger of asphyxiation if you take breaths between inhalations.
VectorZero wrote:It takes a real man to impact his own radius

That's right, slash your emo-wrists and spill all your emo-globin

User avatar
Ralenti
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:21 am UTC
Location: Chile

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby Ralenti » Sun May 10, 2009 12:22 am UTC

Ooh good ideas there. There is a problem with CO2, though: if your brain detects a rise in CO2 levels, it thinks you're not getting enough oxygen even if your O2 levels are fine. This leads to a feeling of asphyxia, so you enter a grasp-for-air-while-you're-still-alive mode, so not a good thing if you want to hold the vapour in, but I've been told you can get better at it.
It reminds me of a technique they used in the past to induce near-death experiences with a mixture of O2:CO2 in a 30:70 ratio, so your body had more than enough oxygen to function properly, but your brain thought you were dying of hypoxia (due to hypercarbia), hence the hallucinations. I remember it being called something like 'carboxy-something' but I've googled and all I can come up with is this: http://www.iacworld.org/English/Resourc ... hnique.asp

PM 2Ring wrote:Also, your vapourizer will run a lot cleaner on cannabis resin (hashish) than on marijuana. I assume you know how to do resin extraction using ice / water...

Yes! Good fun =)
Well, that's just like uh... your opinion, man...

Carnildo
Posts: 2023
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:43 am UTC

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby Carnildo » Sun May 10, 2009 2:36 am UTC

Ralenti wrote:Ooh good ideas there. There is a problem with CO2, though: if your brain detects a rise in CO2 levels, it thinks you're not getting enough oxygen even if your O2 levels are fine. This leads to a feeling of asphyxia, so you enter a grasp-for-air-while-you're-still-alive mode, so not a good thing if you want to hold the vapour in, but I've been told you can get better at it.
It reminds me of a technique they used in the past to induce near-death experiences with a mixture of O2:CO2 in a 30:70 ratio, so your body had more than enough oxygen to function properly, but your brain thought you were dying of hypoxia (due to hypercarbia), hence the hallucinations.


Breathing too much CO2 has its hazards: acidosis, for one.

User avatar
Ralenti
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:21 am UTC
Location: Chile

Re: What happens at around 200°C?

Postby Ralenti » Mon May 11, 2009 11:12 am UTC

I remembered! It's called Carbogen.
"After the second breath came an onrush of color, first a predominant sheet of beautiful rosy-red, following which came successive sheets of brilliant color and design, some geometric, some fanciful and graceful"
So I would imagine it would work hehe, but the critical thing is getting the mixture right.
Well, that's just like uh... your opinion, man...


Return to “Science”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests