A question regarding synchrotron lightsources.

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Minerva
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A question regarding synchrotron lightsources.

Postby Minerva » Fri May 14, 2010 12:16 pm UTC

Is it possible that a lightsource synchrotron can produce any form of ionising particle radiation other than synchrotron and bremsstrahlung radiation, such as positrons, neutrons, protons or the like, via electron-nucleus or photonuclear reactions in the materials surrounding the accelerator?

Basically, when considering radiation shielding design around a synchrotron lightsource facility, do those types of radiation need to be considered, or do only the synchrotron and bremsstrahlung photons need to be considered?
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Charlie!
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Re: A question regarding synchrotron lightsources.

Postby Charlie! » Fri May 14, 2010 8:03 pm UTC

Minerva wrote:Is it possible that a lightsource synchrotron can produce any form of ionising particle radiation other than synchrotron and bremsstrahlung radiation, such as positrons, neutrons, protons or the like, via electron-nucleus or photonuclear reactions in the materials surrounding the accelerator?

Basically, when considering radiation shielding design around a synchrotron lightsource facility, do those types of radiation need to be considered, or do only the synchrotron and bremsstrahlung photons need to be considered?

You're not going to knock any nucleons out unless you're running at lots of MeV, so I'd guess it's not a worry. You could of course get some high energy electrons, but those are easy to shield.
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Re: A question regarding synchrotron lightsources.

Postby btarlinian » Mon May 17, 2010 9:36 pm UTC

Generally speaking, all particle accelerators become slightly radioactive from being bombarded with stray particles of whatever they are accelerating. However, in synchrotron light sources, which generally run at energies anywhere from 1-10 GeV, they are generally safe enough to walk around next to. Having worked at the Stanford Synchrotron Radiation Lightsource a couple of summers, I know that we were allowed to walk around inside the actual accelerator when it was off. (We were only allowed to get 100 mrems above the baseline, so I don't think that residual radiation is too much of a concern. The entire accelerator itself is housed inside giant concrete blocks though and being to close to them while they are active could definitely pose more of a hazard, especially since most sources of synchrotron radiation are unused. (i.e., most SR sources don't use light from every bending magnet, most modern ones don't avoid using bending magnets as light sources as much as possible.)

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Jorpho
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Re: A question regarding synchrotron lightsources.

Postby Jorpho » Mon May 24, 2010 3:43 pm UTC

Minerva wrote:Is it possible that a lightsource synchrotron can produce any form of ionising particle radiation other than synchrotron and bremsstrahlung radiation, such as positrons, neutrons, protons or the like, via electron-nucleus or photonuclear reactions in the materials surrounding the accelerator?

Basically, when considering radiation shielding design around a synchrotron lightsource facility, do those types of radiation need to be considered, or do only the synchrotron and bremsstrahlung photons need to be considered?
It is something that has to be considered if the facility is subject to thoroughly over-cautious safety regulations - and it can be argued that thoroughly over-cautious is the way regulations should be when dealing with high energy physics.

Agent_Irons
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Re: A question regarding synchrotron lightsources.

Postby Agent_Irons » Tue May 25, 2010 6:40 am UTC

I think a lot of the shielding is for "this beam cuts through things" circumstances when containment fails instead of 'makes you sterile' circumstances. Didn't a trial run of the LHC result in a tunnel through something that shouldn't have a tunnel in it?

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Re: A question regarding synchrotron lightsources.

Postby nopacman » Tue May 25, 2010 7:46 pm UTC

Yeah, they had some issues with the LHC, listed on wikipedia. In one of those the beam got out of control and escaped cutting some meters of tube. This last part isn't included on Wiki, but that's what the director-of-something of the LHC said in a speech here on my univ. Also, when they lost the 6 tons of helium they couldn't enter the tunnels for months because of the low temperatures. He thanked to god for not being any people inside at that moment. They have also some unsolved issues: there are some metallic junctions for water in certain sensor that were made of two metals by some not-honest-company, resulting in leaks. Excuse me about the ambiguous details, it was like 5 months ago, the guy was italian and giving the speech in english, and i'm spanish.
The point being: It can be dangerous. But not because of the radiation, i'd say.

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Jorpho
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Re: A question regarding synchrotron lightsources.

Postby Jorpho » Tue May 25, 2010 9:57 pm UTC

But the thread title is about synchrotron light sources - where electrons go around and around in a ring generating useful wavelengths of light, as opposed to something like the LHC where the goal is to smash protons and other "large hadrons" into each other.

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Vaniver
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Re: A question regarding synchrotron lightsources.

Postby Vaniver » Tue May 25, 2010 11:55 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:But the thread title is about synchrotron light sources - where electrons go around and around in a ring generating useful wavelengths of light, as opposed to something like the LHC where the goal is to smash protons and other "large hadrons" into each other.
I thought it was large (hadron collider) not (large hadron) collider. As hadrons go, protons aren't that large.
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PM 2Ring
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Re: A question regarding synchrotron lightsources.

Postby PM 2Ring » Wed May 26, 2010 8:19 am UTC

As hadrons go, protons aren't that large.

In fact, the proton is the smallest stable hadron.

:)


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