Clubbing trends.

Things that don't belong anywhere else. (Check first).

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How often do you go clubbing?

Never been
59
49%
Less than 3 times
19
16%
About once a year
9
8%
Few times a year
16
13%
About every month
10
8%
Few times a month
7
6%
 
Total votes: 120

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Postby Briareos » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:36 pm UTC

Hammer wrote:The historical precedent still applies: the bow. I understand that you are in a club and I'm not talking about a deep formal bow from the waist. The modern equivalent is the nod.


I was really, really happy when I read the first sentence, Hammer. Then you had to go and ruin it by talking about "modern equivalents." If I ever go to a club, I am bowing. And using this "in" with the ladies, I'm sure much smooching of hands will follow. Also, waltzes.
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Postby Hawknc » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:37 pm UTC

Once again, Hammer definitely proves that both beauty AND wisdom come with age.

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Postby Shro » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:38 pm UTC

I also, like Pi, go to college at a party school. And I was also enjoy myself and go out dancing every once in awhile. I have been to dives before, and some pretty nice place. My absolute favorite place to go has to be the gay club because NO ONE GROPES YOU THERE. I see a lot of straight girls there with the same thought on their mind. So anecdotally, there are people that are willing to suffer a change of venue so they don't have to be groped.

There was this one time where this gross dude was dancing behind me and all I felt I could do was kind of scurry away behind my friend. It was disgusting. The most fun I have dancing is when I see a guy and he's clearly interesting in me, and we decide to dance together. This way I don't feel like this asshole guy just wants to grind. No, he's smiled at me, waited for me, this is a nice guy. This has also happened a couple of times.

Also, if verbal communication is so hard, nod, smile, hold out your hand. That would be dead sexy, seeing something so respectful in places on the shadier end of the spectrum.
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Postby Hammer » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:43 pm UTC

Hawknc wrote:Once again, Hammer definitely proves that both beauty AND wisdom come with age.

In this case, also a discussion with The Cow who is actually educated in the ways real courtesy and the purposes of things that are considered good manners (as opposed to just excuses for looking down on other people).
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Postby elminster » Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:16 pm UTC

I hate cheesy pop music with a passion... and worse still, the guys you see down those sorts of clubs. You wouldnt believe the proportion of people i see wearing striped/chequered shirts on some days (striped especially). I cant go to those sorts of places without feeling mildly depressed over it, hence the few times i have been, i consume enough alcohol asap to avoid noticing it.

Personally, i prefer pubs or music festivals. You can actually talk to people (shouting sucks) and generally a wider varity of music. Although not many people i know are into the music that i'm into, and nothing close to the whole lot (Heavy rock [System of a down, Slipknot, Korn,etc], Classical [Vivaldi, Mozart, generally faster and not so fluid], Trance [Fast paced, electronic stuff]).

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Postby Jesse » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:22 pm UTC

Okay, so I decided to grab some expert testimony on this in that the venues Pi remarked upon are the kind my brother frequents. So I asked him to describe the protocol necessary.

His reply was "Smile and a nod" just as Hammer suggested. He stressed the eye contact as being the most important part. When I described Pi's method he actually looked astonished. I will repeat his response verbatim: "That guy is a fucking cunt who doesn't know what he's on about." (Apologies for the language, my brother lacks meeker expression).

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Postby Alisto » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:02 pm UTC

-Surrender is not consent.

-"Getting eye contact is hard!" Suck it up. Molesting girls because it's easier is not an acceptable defense.

-Friends are often like-minded. There may be differences, but you're not going to find someone who thinks it's fun to beat animals hanging out with someone who volunteers at the SPCA. Pi, you keep arguing that the girls you know "irl" agree with you. Well guess what; that's because the girls who don't agree with you aren't going to befriend your scummy ass.

-Let's, for the sake of argument, say that 20% of girls in these clubs thing you're scum and the other 80% want nothing more than your junk on their backsides. You're saying two things. First, that the 20% should stay away if they don't want to get fondled. That makes you an asshole. Second, you're saying that you're willing to take the chance that the girl will feel violated -- repeatedly, since you condone this behavior in general -- because it works for you. That makes you scum.

-When I go dancing at a club, it's usually a college club. There is very little of said grinding going on between random people. It is among people who came together or who know one another. Have I seen the, "I'm going to come up behind you and grind you," behavior? Yes. They're usually people no longer in college (or people who just never attended and think college girls are easy) or the scummiest of scummy frat boys. I have went with my female friends many times and been asked to keep said guys away from them because they are unable to do so themselves. Chase one away, and five minutes later another thinks he has a better chance. Or the first one is back, being pushy.

You are perfectly free to keep doing what you're doing. But if you say that the girls have no right to complain when they get molested, then I don't want to read a single word from you when some girl grabs, twists, and pulls your balls, when you get thrown out of a club because of complaints, or when a protective friend/boyfriend takes your ass to the curb.

Actually, I don't want to read a single word from you anyway. Stop posting.

Thanks.
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Postby Hammer » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:34 pm UTC

I just noticed that we seem to have this exact thread running over in SB. I'm pretty sure we don't need both...
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Postby Jesse » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:43 pm UTC

This is the "We hate Pi thread."

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Postby Vaniver » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:44 pm UTC

Jesster wrote:This is the "We hate Pi thread."
Man, the one time there's a "We hate Pi" thread, I end up on the wrong side of it.
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Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:46 pm UTC

Lo, Bob. You hate Pi?

Yes.

Pi is bad.

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Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:47 pm UTC

Jesster wrote:This is the "We hate sexist pig assholes thread."


Fix'd cause really it's not like he's the only one. (just the only one right here right now)
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Postby Sprocket » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:08 pm UTC

AnonyMouse wrote:old favorite from the good(?) people at Tshirthell:

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Oh, so wet seal sells clothes so you can go clubbing...I get it.
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Postby Mittins » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:10 pm UTC

To be honest we don't 100% know that Pi and his kin don't do this to dudes as well, do we?

Note: I've never been to a club before :oops:
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Postby Peshmerga » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:15 pm UTC

Pi sent me a PM about this thread, so I guess I should respond.

I've never been to a club. Which really hurts my "when is it OK to touch a woman in a club" argument. Oh well. At least I'm honest.
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Postby Sprocket » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:24 pm UTC

Let's go to a club and poll the womens and the mens and track some of their evening behaviors and ask the womens how they felt and ask the mens why they did what they did.
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Postby Okita » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:39 pm UTC

Meaux_Pas wrote:
Jesster wrote:This is the "We hate sexist pig assholes thread."


Fix'd cause really it's not like he's the only one. (just the only one right here right now)


Well you guys certainly are taking out every single frustration on the guy.

I ended up having to read all of Pi's posts in one long stream (I cut and pasted them all into one document including whatever quotes he responded to). What I see is that the guy has what we can consider the "worst case scenario" that goes like this:

[If there are two girls in a club dancing with each other, my wingman and I will end up dancing with them. Both girls will look at the opposing guy (ie. the guy opposite them dancing behind their friend) and offer some sort of signal. After a period of time (suggested 3 seconds), the guys will put their arms on said girls hips and if said girls seem to be okay with it, will attempt to grind with them.]

I think that this situation is pretty bad, now that I've been able to properly think about it. But I think that at this point, Pi does too. But the Pi-hate seems a bit much. His whole scenario is based upon the fact that the above situation is the right set of verbal cues as to imply acceptance to grinding. Obviously, that's not the case and I'm sure he knows that now. But the stuff afterwards about girls being able to move away, that's not necessarily incorrect is it if you take away the bit about showing up behind these girls. If I attempt to dance with a girl (ie. near her) and she moves away (ie. a few inches/ angles her shoulder more to her friend than to me) then that's a pretty obvious cue that she does not want to dance with me.

Besides, Pi's has conceded as much in previous posts, accepting a lot of what you have told him and has gone on to say he's going to spend a lot of time thinking about what he's done. How much more are you going to expect in 2 days? It's hardly productive to pour on the internet rage especially when you've gotten more change in a person than most people can expect to get online in general.

Let him think about his lesson and if he comes back talking the same sort of stuff, then go to town on him with the verbal lambasting.
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Postby Rat » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:44 pm UTC

3.14159265... wrote:Everytime I go to a club, I end up meeting at least 3-6 women, who are happy to grind with me. They also leave their numbers when I ask.

There is usually 1 that thinks I am a rapist.

I think the 1 is out of place not the 3-6.

Again I want someone to please respond to what they think of my earlier sentence:
Either I have friends that like bieng sexually assualted, or girls on the Fora don't go to the type of clubs I go to.
Which seems more probable?


if pi wasnt doing what he's doing those 3 to 6 girls would feel lonely and neglected!

seriously though, i dont think youre gonna find a lot of support from the women on the fucking XKCD fora

different type of people

different opinions

not enough drugs

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Postby Alisto » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:47 pm UTC

@Okita: And I think you're giving him far too much credit.
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Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:53 pm UTC

Rat wrote:not enough drugs

Nah, there's just enough drugs. All of them are with me, in front of my computer. That's all the drug influence the fora needs, really.
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Postby AnonyMouse » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:55 pm UTC

Hammer wrote:
EDIT: BTW, isn't the three second rule the one about eating off the floor?


even that's a full 5 seconds as I know it actually.
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Postby Bad Hair Man » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:18 pm UTC

Mittins wrote:To be honest we don't 100% know that Pi and his kin don't do this to dudes as well, do we?

Sorry, but I don't think that matters. Sexism (present though it may be) isn't what people are taking issue with.

Mittins wrote:Note: I've never been to a club before :oops:

Me neither, though I'd like to give it a try sometime. Aside from the noise, other people, alcohol, and expense, it sounds like the kind of place I'd fit right in! :D

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Postby 3.14159265... » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:47 pm UTC

Those are all actual examples where you actually seem to me to be saying that you're touching girls for three seconds, and they treat you like a rapist. And I do want to note that you're the only one ON THESE BOARDS who called you that.
No! they are examples of the girl thinking I am a rapist BEFORE I touch her. Read what you cited!

Pro tip, Pi: Read your methods. Then read Gordon's. Compare. I support his a lot more. Perhaps you should consider this.
I did respond to the paragraph you had here. I said its a good method I use it alot too, though I am talking now about the other method I also use.

The girls that treat us as pedophiles, are girls that 80% of the club, including the girls are bitching about.

Even if your percentages are accurate, that really doesn't matter. Who gets to lay hands on me is not up for a vote. These girls can only give permission for themselves. I don't care if 100% (all six?) of the girls you asked told you it was OK to grab me. When it's my hips, my vote is the only one that counts.
Thats the problem though. A HUGE number of girls and guys like random groping. They like it in this way. WHY should they stop because the 20% won't go to clubs they like?


MOST GIRLS, ANYWHERE, DO NOT ENJOY HAVING TO PUSH AWAY GUYS WITH NO CLASS.
Who defines what class is? Those girls there seem to think that walking over and talking to them, is very dorky.

Also, if verbal communication is so hard, nod, smile, hold out your hand. That would be dead sexy, seeing something so respectful in places on the shadier end of the spectrum.
I do this sometimes, it works quite well. Other times such as a holoween kegger party, this is what the 17th century guy would do.

His reply was "Smile and a nod" just as Hammer suggested. He stressed the eye contact as being the most important part. When I described Pi's method he actually looked astonished. I will repeat his response verbatim: "That guy is a fucking cunt who doesn't know what he's on about." (Apologies for the language, my brother lacks meeker expression).
So he didn't know about the method? I don't accept that he knows what I am talking about then. I am not the single person who does this, maybe the single on xkcd, but not the single in Toronto.

-Let's, for the sake of argument, say that 20% of girls in these clubs thing you're scum and the other 80% want nothing more than your junk on their backsides. You're saying two things. First, that the 20% should stay away if they don't want to get fondled. That makes you an asshole. Second, you're saying that you're willing to take the chance that the girl will feel violated -- repeatedly, since you condone this behavior in general -- because it works for you. That makes you scum.
Say there is a fight after school. In the middle of the fight one of the kids punches the other in the face. Then he files physical assault because he didn't know that punching in the face was allowed. You know what? That kid is an asshole not the one that punched.

There is very little of said grinding going on between random people. It is among people who came together or who know one another. Have I seen the, "I'm going to come up behind you and grind you," behavior? Yes. They're usually people no longer in college (or people who just never attended and think college girls are easy) or the scummiest of scummy frat boys. I have went with my female friends many times and been asked to keep said guys away from them because they are unable to do so themselves. Chase one away, and five minutes later another thinks he has a better chance. Or the first one is back, being pushy.
If I can pull of like 6 girls in a night, these girls ARE easy. Thats not a bad thing, they just want groping as much as I do. If you are claiming I am using them and them not me, you are bieng sexist.

You are perfectly free to keep doing what you're doing. But if you say that the girls have no right to complain when they get molested, then I don't want to read a single word from you when some girl grabs, twists, and pulls your balls, when you get thrown out of a club because of complaints, or when a protective friend/boyfriend takes your ass to the curb.
I am not physically assualting them. It ISN"T sexual assualt. If it was there would be ALOT of guys in jail.


OK seriously last post.

Everyone here has one problem that they can't seem to get over.

There *are* girls out there, that like bieng touched by strangers. They don't call it sexual assualt, they call it fun. The clubs I go to, these girls are the *vast* majority. This is also made quite known by anyone who has been there once.

There is a culture of people who don't think its wrong to treat each other's bodies as objects. Thats why they attend in a certain building. The rules are implicit.

This isn't wrong!

Many people don't like the above, so they then suddenly become feminists that say the girls are bieng used/sexually assualted.

I hate the fact that just because people on xkcd can't relate to something, they are also unable to understand it. I was hoping the intelligence level would be able to cover the gap.

Meh

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Postby Okita » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:10 pm UTC

To Allisto:

Well, it appears that you're right. I have given him more credit than he probably deserves.

But I still think that he is extremely poor at writing his arguments, which makes a lot of his own statements sound worse than they actually are. Or at least, I'm having a hard time believing that his argument revolves around going up to girls unaware and then putting his arms around them. Maybe I'm too generous.

He's still a misogynist but that can't be changed overnight either and definitely not with extreme yelling.
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Postby CorranH » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:11 pm UTC

For the record, I completely understand where you're coming from. There are indeed people out there who enjoy getting randomly groped by strangers. However, for most people, they do not. And touching someone who does not want to be touched is flat out wrong. We can agree on that, yes? The distinction is whether or not the girls want to be touched, and what the percentages are. If you're going to a place where there are girls who enjoy being randomly groped, then grope on with your bad self. But, if you're going to a place that is frequented by BOTH types of girls, you should not. Because you will inevitably end up groping someone who didn't want to be groped. Bad. Bad Pi! Just recognize that when you're assuming that someone is cool with being randomly groped, you're going to be wrong sometimes. Which makes you a huge fucking ass. I really do wish the girls that weren't okay with it would start hitting guys who tried it. The problem would self-correct very quickly. But, since they won't, we'll just have to hope that guys will control themselves.

Touching people who want to be touched is bad.

Touching girls who enjoy being touched randomly carries an inherent risk, by definition, unless you are frequenting a venue that very specifically caters to such tastes.

If you choose to do so outside of such venues, repeatedly, then by mathematical law, you are knowingly groping girls who do not wish to be groped.

If you choose to continue such practices, nobody here can stop you. It's very likely you'll never be assaulted or otherwise inconvenienced to any appreciable degree by your behavior. You can say that it's easier, or they shouldn't have come in the first place, or anything you want to justify it to yourself.

But you are still knowingly choosing to grope girls who don't want to be groped. You can no longer plead ignorance. That's why you made this thread, and you got what you wanted. So if you're going to keep doing what you've been doing, at least man up about it. Say, "I am choosing to continue groping girls who do not wish to be groped because . . . " Whatever. You don't even have to provide a reason. But at least acknowledge what you're doing. Even if only to yourself.
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Postby Jesse » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:12 pm UTC

First of all, your argument against me was that I don't visit those type of clubs, so I asked someone who does go to that type of club, and he disagrees with you. Maybe it's just a Toronto thing, maybe there it is ok to grope women in clubs, but I have asked someone who frequents the kind of club you describe far more often than you do (Minimum of once a week, sometimes twice) and he says any guy doing that would most likely be removed by a bouncer as soon as it was reported. If this is the case, and it's acceptable in Toronto I am very glad that I do not live in Toronto.

Secondly, the point we are making is that clearly either it is not just 'this type of club' that it happens in or what you assume is common knowledge isn't because there are a vast majority of ladies saying they get groped when they go out and they don't like it.

Your dismissals contradict one another. Either they do go to the same type of clubs, yet don't share the same viewpoint, which makes your talk of majority pointless; or they go to different clubs and it still happens, which means the guys are assuming it is that type of club and this kind of thing can't be judged on word of mouth or 'one visit' as you so succinctly put it.

EDIT: Everytime someone gives a conflicting piece of evidence you return to the same argument. "My friends all say it's fine." Well there is nothing anyone here is going to say that will change the words that pass their lips, so if no evidence other than their testimony will sway you then I suggest you say so now and this thread be locked, because there will be no further point in it.

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Postby Phenriz » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:17 pm UTC

few times a month so long as i have the extra cash, at least once a month though.
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Postby Pebbles » Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:38 pm UTC

Just because some women dont respect themselves doesnt mean you shouldnt respect them.

Anyone ever notice its the slutty girls who love any attention a male will throw at her usually has the lowest self respect?
Just because they dont respect themselves and dont think they deserve someone who is willing to make eye contact with them doesnt mean you should take advantage of that.
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Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:40 pm UTC

3.14159265... wrote:I hate the fact that just because people on xkcd can't relate to something, they are also unable to understand it. I was hoping the intelligence level would be able to cover the gap.

Meh

K thanks
Bye.


...fuck you, seriously. Because we don't understand your sexism makes US less intelligent? Art thou for real?

Anyway, my point:

Fine, you want me to relate? Help me to relate. I'm not asking you what you do that makes the girls react this way. I'm asking why you think it's ok.

So I'm gonna ask you One. More. Time. I want to know why doing something that makes women, even a small amount, think you're a rapist is OK by you. Because six women say one thing is OK, the seventh doesn't get a say in what you do? And this is acceptable to you?

Funny, I thought the intelligence level on this board might prevent thinking such as that. (see what i did there?)
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Postby xyzzy » Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:59 pm UTC

3.14159265... wrote:
They aren't getting a chance to decide for themselves, in other words.
They have decided on this before coming in, and have chosen a trusted friend to make the choice.


I cannot believe this little gem has not been hammered more than I've seen.

Let me get this straight. You're saying that what you do is:

    Find a couple girls dancing

    Walk up behind one

    Let the other see you're there

    Then grind with the first?

How come you are still alive? I don't go out clubbing (for various reasons, including age), and if I did, I wouldn't be wanting to grind with people like this anyway (for further reasons). If for some bizarre reason I did, seems that the following would be a minimum:

    Announce your presence in some way. You're always complaining that it's too loud to ask, so either walk up in front, or tap on the shoulder.

    Don't start out by grinding. Start by dancing with a person, probably facing them.

    If they seem comfortable with your presence, move towards grinding, but be prepared to back off at any time. They should NEVER have to move because of you.


They have not implicitly given someone else the responsibility to choose for them, you have decided that said other person will do so. I can decide that you're going to let anybody who wants come up and punch you in the face, but it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to what people are allowed to do, does it?

1am here, so slightly incoherent, but I'm also very angry.
"Wile E. Coyote was a theoretical mathematician." - Leliel
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Belial
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Postby Belial » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:48 am UTC

Say there is a fight after school. In the middle of the fight one of the kids punches the other in the face. Then he files physical assault because he didn't know that punching in the face was allowed. You know what? That kid is an asshole not the one that punched.


Yeah. Actually. Punching people generally opens you to assault charges.

But your analogy is bad. It's more like if you went to a gym to work out, wandered near the boxing area, and someone decided that, since you were there, it was okay to punch you in the the back of the head, without warning, or even determining if you were even there to box.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

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Hammer
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Postby Hammer » Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:49 am UTC

OK, how's this for a system, based on your original MO?

For a refresher, your MO goes like so:
1. Pick out two girls dancing with each other.
2. You and your friend each approach one girl from behind - this is grinding after all.
3. Each girl gives the thumbs up to her friend.
4. You and your friend each grab the girl you are behind.
5. Girls now have a few seconds to indicate that you misread the thumbs up and they want you to not be grinding on them.

How about a simple change to step 4?
4. Girls, having received the go-ahead from their line judge, step back and press themselves against you or look over their shoulders at you and beckon you forward with a head gesture.
5. You and your friend grab the girls and have at it. If step 4 does not occur, you don't grab anything.

That's what I mean by a clear indication of consent. It should be an opt-in system, not an opt-out system. I don't see where the difference between method 1 and method 2 as described above cramps anybody's style and it saves a whole lot of get-off-me's from people who are using the multipurpose establishment for a purpose other than the one you and your friends have selected.

You say you give them a few seconds to push you away. Indicating that pushing you away is a regular and expected occurrence, even when their girlfriend has given the green light which you say you always look for. With your system, by the time they get a chance to to refuse you, the thing they didn't want has already happened.
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Easton
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Postby Easton » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:05 am UTC

This seems to be a very tense topic, but I do feel I should come in and say that everyone is giving Pi way too hard a time about this. He is not, so far as it seems, a rapist, nor interested in sexually assaulting every woman he meets. He has good intentions, of dancing only with women who consent.

Let's cut him some slack and drop the insults.

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Postby Insignificant Deifaction » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:10 am UTC

Do you know why you find the vast majority of people that enjoy groping in clubs?

Because you, and those like you, started groping, and the girls that weren't there for groping were driven out in disgust.

So, yours, and those like you's, decision to objectify has alienated many many more women than you think it has.

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Postby Castaway » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:20 am UTC

I dont have much more to contribute to the thread. I think pi's a pig, but a lot of girls are pigs too, so maybe he'll find someone special. Personally, I've only been clubbing once because I'm only 16. It was in Italy, and there were only like 20 people. I was already shitfaced when I got there and I only danced with a girl that I talked up for a while and her friends.
You've just lost twenty dollars and my self respect.

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Postby Tirobir » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:21 am UTC

I go just to dance. It's hard to find a club in my area that doesn't play mostly hip-hop (which I don't like) so I don't go too often. I don't drink. Going with friends or a nice girl is more fun but I usually don't have anyone that wants to go. I usually dance a song or two with a couple nice girls. I don't really like meeting girls there, though, so it's just for a bit.

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Postby Castaway » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:24 am UTC

Oh, I forgot that most things I do I do for the good story, so I'd only go clubbing under weird situations, like being drunk in venice on a school trip.
You've just lost twenty dollars and my self respect.



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Okita
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Postby Okita » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:56 pm UTC

Well... now that all that's settled, maybe we can turn this thread to more important topics.

Like Disco.

Are Disco clubs still around? Any in Boston? I've got Stayin Alive stuck in my head all day (fun to walk to work to though) and I want to boogie down!
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Postby Pixel » Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:06 pm UTC

Okita wrote:Well... now that all that's settled, maybe we can turn this thread to more important topics.


Judging from the recent comments the issue is far from settled.
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Okita
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Postby Okita » Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:13 pm UTC

Pixel wrote:
Okita wrote:Well... now that all that's settled, maybe we can turn this thread to more important topics.


Judging from the recent comments the issue is far from settled.


This whole "argument" just becomes one-sided if Pi stops posting here. Which I thought he just claimed he was going to do. Of course, I could be wrong. If so, by all means, please continue.

Besides, if all your arguments are against one person (yes, I know, there are other misogynists out there but they aren't talking in this thread) then then why can't you yell at him through PMs as opposed to this thread...
"I may or may not be a raptor. There is no way of knowing until entering a box that I happen to be in and then letting me sunder the delicious human flesh from your body in reptile fury."


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