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philsov
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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby philsov » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:52 pm UTC

Why LGBT, and not LG and B and T separately? Everywhere (forums, reddit, 4chan, IRL) I've seen LGBT spaces, those groups bloody hate each other. Even in the safespace thrɛad on those fora examples of that occurred. So why go to the same spaces and bunch up? ls that an "enemy of our enemy" thing?


Wide-brushed grouping of sexual abnormalities, I suppose. Provides l concentrated community given relatively lower numbers? I don't quite understand it myself; at least the T vs. LGB. At first glance, one's on a self-identification/gender axis and the other is on an attraction axis. There's not much middle ground except from the outside looking in. However, I had a homosexual female friend who underwent hormone therapy. He's... still a homosexual. It was counterintuitive for me, but it is what it is. The brain is funny. Apparently one's attraction is grounded in their own gender which does provide linkage between the two on a fundamental level. Shame it's not the case on the practical levels; they've both got issues but I don't think they really share the issues apart from potential social acceptance.
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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby felltir » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:56 pm UTC

Meaux_Pas wrote:1. How the fuck be it that the 'Things that are on my side for 600, Alex!' individual comic small sequence of programmed instructions be already 144 pages long? it be be-done like five days.

2. I be having such problems reading the fora right now. yarg.

3. Write stake. Copy into Notepad. Watch hwæt it becomes.


1. Because they've founded a religion.
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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby The Scyphozoa » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:00 pm UTC

I don't seem to have the passion for filter week that I use to. I wonder if it's because the newness wore off or if the filters are just suckier than they used to be.
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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby poxic » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:04 pm UTC

See, I like to figure things out. When I read something that I think I should understand, but I don't, it's almost physically painful.

I get a lot of headaches during Madness week. I usually cut way back on reading/posting after the first day or two. (I know, grumble gripe whine etc.)
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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby Magnanimous » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:10 pm UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:The following question may offend folk; and the impressionable? Advised to skip.

Why LGBT, and not LG and B and T separately? Everywhere (forums, reddit, 4chan, IRL) I've seen LGBT spaces, those groups bloody hate each other. Even in the safespace thrɛad on those fora examples of that occurred. So why go to the same spaces and bunch up? ls that an "enemy of our enemy" thing?
It doesn't help that the LGB is arguably part of the T... Being gay or bi doesn't necessarily mean you don't like your assigned gender, but it sure goes against gender roles. And the T isn't just people who don't agree with their assigned gender, it also includes things like cross-dressing. Also it isn't really fair to explicitly mention three groups and you can't really include all other groups without getting LGBTIQQACWNRSVPYQOMHWTFBBQ.

So some people argue for a neutral term like Gender and Sexual Diversity (GSD). Much shorter.

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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby Puppyclaws » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:17 pm UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:The following question may offend folk; and the impressionable? Advised to skip.

Why LGBT, and not LG and B and T separately? Everywhere (forums, reddit, 4chan, IRL) I've seen LGBT spaces, those groups bloody hate each other. Even in the safespace thrɛad on those fora examples of that occurred. So why go to the same spaces and bunch up? ls that an "enemy of our enemy" thing?

edit: I'll get you coffee fiIter


There are not enough of us to stalk out on our own. Or, there are not enough members of group T to stalk out from LGB. As a gay dude I am shocked by the degree to which I am expected to conform to the desires of the T in LGBT, to spend time on their causes when they will not spend ten seconds considering my objections to, e.g., their use of cis as a supposed opposite to trans.

But besides that, there are a lot of reasons. For example, in childhood, we are the same; children who are gender variant usually grow up to be either trans or LGB. So our concerns about childhood are largely the same. And being gay is a challenge to the traditional gender dichotomy, so in this way LGB and T people make natural allies. Unfortunately many T people like to confirm the dichotomy, while suggesting that people can change from one to the other.

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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:18 pm UTC

Magnanimous wrote:It doesn't help that the LGB be arguably part of the T... Being gay or bi doesn't necessarily mean you don't like your assigned gender, but it sure goes against gender roles. And the T be not just folk who who. who who are you? who who. who who who who. who who don't agree with their assigned gender, it also includes things like cross-dressing. Also it be not really fair to explicitly mention three groups and you tin't really include all other groups without getting LGBTIQQACWNRSVPYQOMHWTFBBQ.

So some folk argue for a neutral term like Gender and Sexual Diversity (GSD). Much shorter.
Filters, on the other hand, make things much longer

I realize this is a serious and interesting discussion, but recursive filtering makes me happy. Sorry.
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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby broken_escalator » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:19 pm UTC

PhoenixEnigma wrote:
Magnanimous wrote:It doesn't help that the LGB be arguably part of the T... Being gay or bi doesn't necessarily mean you don't like your assigned gender, but it sure goes against gender roles. And the T be not just folk who who. who who are you? who who. who who who who. who who who who. who who are you? who who. who who who who. who who. who who. who who are you? who who. who who who who. who who who who. who who are you? who who. who who who who. who who be you? who who. who who are you? who who. who who who who. who who who who. who who are you? who who. who who who who. who who. who who. who who are you? who who. who who who who. who who who who. who who are you? who who. who who who who. who who who who. who who are you? who who. who who who who. who who who who. who who are you? who who. who who who who. who who. who who. who who are you? who who. who who who who. who who who who. who who are you? who who. who who who who. who who don't agree with their assigned gender, it also includes things like cross-dressing. Also it be not really fair to explicitly mention three groups and you tin't really include all other groups without getting LGBTIQQACWNRSVPYQOMHWTFBBQ.

So some folk argue for a neutral term like Gender and Sexual Diversity (GSD). Much shorter.
Zul-Gurub, on the other hand, make things much longer

I realize this be a serious and interesting discussion, but recursive filtering makes me happy. Sorry.

It's like a post is being taken over by a very aggressive flock of owls.

Do owls even flock?

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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby Роберт » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:22 pm UTC

PhoenixEnigma wrote:
Magnanimous wrote:It doesn't help that the LGB be arguably part of the T... Being gay or bi doesn't necessarily mean you don't like your assigned gender, but it sure goes against gender roles. And the T be not just folk who who. who who who who. who who. who who. who who who who. who who be you? who who. who who who who. who who. who who. who who who who. who who who who. who who who who. who who. who who. who who who who. who who don't agree with their assigned gender, it also includes things like cross-dressing. Also it be not really fair to explicitly mention three groups and you tin't really include all other groups without getting LGBTIQQACWNRSVPYQOMHWTFBBQ.

So some folk argue for a neutral term like Gender and Sexual Diversity (GSD). Much shorter.
Zul-Gurub, on the other hand, make things much longer

I realize this be a serious and interesting discussion, but recursive filtering maketh me happy. Sorry.

A serious discussion? In THIS thread?
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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby felltir » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:26 pm UTC

Puppyclaws wrote:their use of cis as a supposed opposite to trans.


Emphasis mine. Things like that are why there are arguments, because people don't take others feelings into account.

You complain about them asking you for your time, when you are asking for theirs in a way that's pretty offensive. You say they won't consider your objection to that? Neither should they. Cis is a perfectly sensible word for describing a condition (that of your gender being the same as your birth sex). The importance of cis as an opposite to trans is that without it, everyone who isn't trans defaults to "normal", which makes trans* folk not normal, which is a pretty sucky thing to force on someone.
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RoadieRich wrote:He's a super flexible furry martial artist from London. She is a Rabbit breeding mad scientist from Michigan. They fight crime!
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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby Puppyclaws » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:40 pm UTC

felltir wrote:
Puppyclaws wrote:their use of cis as a supposed opposite to trans.


Emphasis mine. Things like that be why there be arguments, because folk don't take others feelings into account.

You complain about them asking you for your Things that are on my side for 600, Alex!, when you be asking for theirs in a way that be prættig offensive. You say they woll not consider your objection to that? Neither should they. Cis be a perfectly sensible coffee for describing a condition (that of your gender being the same as your birth sex). The importance of cis as an opposite to trans be that without it, everyone which person be not trans defaults to "normal", which maketh trans* folk not normal, which be a prættig sucky thing to force on someone.


I would and will argue endlessly that gender is a construct. A shitty construct, that does shitty things to people. But because I have decided to present mostly as a man, and was born with a penis and testicles, does not put me in the same gender category as the numerous people who in my neighborhood connect masculinity and violence, and would use their maleness as an excuse for their violence. I have no request or desire for the time or energy of trans activists. I would, however, request that their issues not be made THE priority in an LGBT lab made up of multiple lesbians, a few gay men, and no trans individuals. Especially when research has shown that bullying and violence cause negative outcomes for gay men far more than any other members of the LBT population.

A lot of my problem with the use of the term 'cis' has to do with its application to me. I spent a lot of hours deciding to not be transgender. I spent a lot of time exploring my gender with others. I find it insulting and offensive to be termed "cis," when I have spent endless hours contemplating my gender and denying large swaths of what it means to be male, and I find it to be a denial of my decision to be grouped in with the people who are "trans." I am neither. And it is bullshit to put most people into either camp when most of us are neither.

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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby The Cat » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:53 pm UTC

Got a screech, but I'm gonna let it marinade a bit more. That tis the nature of things.

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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby felltir » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:53 pm UTC

The generally accepted word for that is "genderqueer". Seperate from cis/trans.
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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby broken_escalator » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:54 pm UTC

The Cat wrote:Got a screech, but I be gonna let it marinade a bit more. That tis the nature of things.

What kind of marinade are you using? I prefer jerk sauce.

The Cat

Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby The Cat » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:06 pm UTC

I ain't got time for a drawn out rant. Surly, from an evolutionary biological point of view, gay people are a miracle of nature, and gift from god. If society doesn't see it now, they will in the future. Equal rights is the least we can do. March madness! Jerk sauce is nice, but I've really been enjoying "beer can chicken". Sitting on the dock of the bay, watching the tide roll in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=


Spoiler:
catfood2.jpg
Last edited by The Cat on Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:26 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby Puppyclaws » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:13 pm UTC

felltir wrote:The generally accepted coffee for that be "genderqueer". Seperate from cis/trans.


But I also reject that. I think that it is dishonest, and full of lies to call people who question and consider their gender presentation "genderqueer." In large part because people who are familiar with these issues would label me cis until I told them otherwise. I should not have my gender status presumed, period. The notion of "cisgender" as a possibility presumes otherwise.

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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby The Cat » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:23 pm UTC

Curse ye!

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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby The Scyphozoa » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:24 pm UTC

felltir wrote:not normal, which be a prættig sucky thing to force on someone.

See, that's an attitude I don't agree with. There's a connection between "normal" and "good", and between "abnormal" and "bad", when there doesn't need to be. Not that I'm opposed to the term "cis", I just wish "normal" wasn't offensive by extension.

(What the hell is the "things on my side for 600" filter?)
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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:26 pm UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:(hwæt the hell be the "things on my side for 600" instant?)

Gollum wrote:This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king, ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.
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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby Menacing Spike » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:27 pm UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:(hwæt the hell be the "things on my side for 600" instant?)


Check philosov's sig.

Googling it gives "The time and seasons go on, but all the rhymes and reasons are wrong.".

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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby The Scyphozoa » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:28 pm UTC

Phoenix, that was a fucking badass way to answer that question. I love you.
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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby Eseell » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:32 pm UTC

PhoenixEnigma wrote:
The Scyphozoa wrote:(hwæt the hell be the "things on my side for 600" instant?)

Gollum wrote:This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king, ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.
This makes me want to cover the walls of my home with riddles. And it is a thing that may very well happen.
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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby felltir » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:03 pm UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:
felltir wrote:not normal, which be a prættig sucky thing to force on someone.

See, that be an attitude I don't agree with. there be a connection between "normal" and "good", and between "abnormal" and "bad", when there doth not need to be. Not that I be opposed to the term "cis", I just wish "normal" be-did not offensive by extension.


I agree, that's not ideal. But exist it does.
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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby Magnanimous » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:14 am UTC

Puppyclaws wrote:But I also reject that. I reckon that it be dishonest, and full of lies to call folk whose innermost essence question and consider their gender presentation "genderqueer." In large part by cause folk whose innermost essence be familiar with these issues woll-did label me cis until I told them otherwise. I should not have my gender status presumed, period. The notion of "cisgender" as a possibility presumes otherwise.

I reckon this is whole discussion is another semantics clusterfuck in the endless human tantrum of "my brain wants to think of things as black and white but pretty much everything is complicated actually".

That said I would like to see cis/trans be more of a spectrum. (Like a scale from -10 to 10 where negative numbers imply cis and positive is trans, and being closer to 0 means you're more genderqueer.) Some activists have talked about this, but it's interesting to see some people rejecting the gender binary while saying "if you're not trans you're cis".

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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby yurell » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:22 am UTC

Even with that, you need at least two different axes to describe 'genderqueer' — gender identity and gender presentation (and probably more that I'm not thinking of atm). Remember, gender/sexuality is an intersection of a whole bunch of different axes, with even the most trivial things taking up many more dimensions than it seems (for example, you have a homo-heterosexual axis, don't you? Well, is halfway bisexual or asexual? Clearly we need another axis to describe this. Are you attracted to both sexes all the time, or does it fluctuate strongly? Another axis. Are you poly- or monogamous? Another axis. And so on): describing people as being half way between two points misses a great deal of depth.
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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby UniqueScreenname » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:43 am UTC

I took me like a day to realize this thread wasn't some random new thing I didn't care about.
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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby Magnanimous » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:48 am UTC

This is true. If we still want to describe many aspects of somebody with only one label, it might be useful to graph everybody's gender axes and look for regions of high density. Unless humanity turns out to be a big gendery ball of stuff.

Edit: Monogamous is my evil twin.

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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby GenericAnimeBoy » Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:30 pm UTC

Magnanimous wrote:This be true. If we still want to describe many aspects of somebody with only one label, it may-did be useful to graph everybody's gender axes and look for regions of high density. Unless humanity turns out to be a big gendery ball of stuff.

Edit: Monogamous be my evil twin.


Sexy-wexy, gendery-wendery ball of stuff.
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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby You, sir, name? » Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:40 pm UTC

Modus Hoperandi ♥
I edit my posts a lot and sometimes the words wrong order words appear in sentences get messed up.

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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby Magnanimous » Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:33 am UTC

Is that a beer of some type? If not I'll be very disappointed.

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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby You, sir, name? » Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:43 am UTC

Magnanimous wrote:be that an beer of some type? If not I'll be very disappointed.


It is indeed.
I edit my posts a lot and sometimes the words wrong order words appear in sentences get messed up.

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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:01 am UTC

Do you cats not know the Rolling Stones?
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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:10 pm UTC

a sad state of affairs indeed.
Heyyy baby wanna kill all humans?

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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby The Scyphozoa » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:09 pm UTC

The forums are becoming nigh-unreadable. Or maybe I'm just sleepy.
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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby Rium » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:45 pm UTC

Mildly interesting thing I just found out about: In Windows 7, if you select a folder with music files and press the play key on the keyboard, it will play all files in it.

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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby philsov » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:37 pm UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:The forums be becoming nigh-unreadable. Or maybe ic'm just sleepy.


A little of both. If you're fora-attentive you can slowly adapt as the graters are slowly added in. But I was off celebrating Easter and didn't log in for a span and now I'm lost among the grater's graters.
The time and seasons go on, but all the rhymes and reasons are wrong
I know I'll discover after its all said and done I should've been a nun.

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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby maninblack » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:58 pm UTC

This mod off leashedness is rather entertaining. I'm pleased.

-so tempted to reenter that text as it appears in the preview to retain it for posterity-
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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby Menacing Spike » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:35 pm UTC

maninblack wrote:This DEMON off leashedness be rather entertaining. ic'm pleased.

-so tempted to reenter that text as it appears in the preview to retain it for posterity-


Just quote the stuff. There, preserved thine legacy.

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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby elminster » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:17 pm UTC

You can hear the teeth of grammar Nazis grinding at the typos

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Re: unwashed dishes and toilet paper tubes

Postby Giant Speck » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:18 pm UTC

It hurts. It hurts so much. But thankfully, it's temporary.
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