The Man-Purse project...

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ZeroSum
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Postby ZeroSum » Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:53 pm UTC

German Sausage wrote:yeah, and the average american speaks how many languages other than the one they were raised in?
:D
Will people stop bringing up non sequiturs like this? US citizens have no need to learn multiple languages hence they tend not to. It's that simple and has nothing to do with capability.

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Postby German Sausage » Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:17 pm UTC

i think its a pretty good measure of how effective an educational system is, actually.
neither do australian citizens, though we tend to try. knowledge for knowledge's own sake is a pretty important ideal for an educational system to put into people's minds, methinks. not to mention the wealth of understanding and alternate points of view that another language opens up.

but

this is neither on topic, nor what i really want to talk about at this moment here. if you want, we can take this over to serious business, but neither who has a better education system nor what defines a good one belong here.


so. how about that manbag?
should earlz's friend have to get a clear one?
should the ladies with which he attends high school?
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Postby Earlz » Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:11 pm UTC

well, it's almost like girls need them for *products* which would disgust everyone in a clear bag, but still....the clear or mesh rule is fundamentally flawed...there are so many exceptions that really can't be done anythign about...and the weird thing is, there has never been a real violence problem at my school...like I think there were like 4 fights last year, and that was IT I mean...that's really good compared to when I was at the middle school and there be at least one weekly....
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Postby clockworkmonk » Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:16 pm UTC

The only fight of any note at my high school was between a pair of coaches. in the halls
during class.

other than that, most of the student population were really too stoned to care. We did not have rules like this at my school, which was odd, because I was aware of drug deals in class.

and there was that one time the dude in front of me pulled out his pipe and smoked it during geometry. while the teacher was in the room.

good times.
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Postby muzugu » Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:31 pm UTC

My school doesn't care about backpacks. my friend usually has a knife on him at school. there are about three fights a year in my school, and they're usually among the "auto shop" kids. I go to school in a suburb of Chicago, and no one really cares.

As for the manbag, tell me how it turns out. I'm curious.

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Postby Rasputin » Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:19 pm UTC

clockworkmonk wrote:and there was that one time the dude in front of me pulled out his pipe and smoked it during geometry. while the teacher was in the room.

good times.

The teacher should have turned around, thrown a text book at him, and said "stick THAT in your pipe and smoke it!"

As for my high school, my class was apparently the last "good" class, as the year following my graduation, a couple of policemen were hired to roam the halls. We're in the suburbs/sticks, have a high school size of 650-700 (9th-12th), and our school, minus a couple crazy people, have no hard drugs like heroin or cocaine or any of that. Dress code is pretty standard (no spaghetti-strap or strapless shirts, no miniskirts, no midriff exposure, underwear should not be visible... mostly stuff for the ladies apparently).

All of the school fights involved the underclassmen, and they wore the bare-minimum clothing requirements like it was their job. It's just the new generation. They lack discipline. That is why the schools are starting to come down really hard, which then in turn looks even worse to the kids in the school, so they rebel even more. Commence loop.
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Postby Cheese » Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:59 pm UTC

Narsil wrote:
Cheese wrote:I'm not sure about handbags and such, but I'm thinking about going into school with pigtails in to scare my guidance teacher, who seems to think guys with long hair are breaking the law - any guys done this themselves (or girls getting masculine cuts for similar reasons)?
Haha, wow.

I think I have longer hair than most people in my school, and I'm a guy. Also, I have on several occasions come to school with my hair braided. If anyone told me to cut it, I'd give them a hearty "fuck you" beacuse I've been growing it for four years now.
Luckily that won't happen, as I'm friends with the administration, but still.

Also, you can get away with anything at my school.
There's no "no backpack rule", everyone takes theirs to every class. And no door searches. Or any security, really. If someone wanted to pull some shit, there would be nothing to stop them.

Really, that worries me a fair bit.


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Postby xyzzy » Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:06 pm UTC

What's with these 'no bags' rules? I have to carry textbooks, notepads, food, my own books, etc. What am I supposed to do with them? Of course, I'm also crazy enough to think that the chance of a 'no backpacks' rule stopping someone aiming to shoot up the school is nearly nil*.

I say he should get a clear mesh purse, and hide a plastic cap-gun in it. Then he can find the principal, and show him the ineffectiveness of the policy. This isn't recommended if your school board cannot a) take a joke, b) accept that they could be wrong, or c) are real assholes.

*Think about it. I'm intending to shoot and kill as many people as possible. Therefore I buy firearms and ammunition, and carry them to school, in pockets or in a bag. Once I reach the school, I take them out of the bag, and start shooting the students who are waiting to get through security. Alternately, I take them in bit by bit inside a fake book or something, then carry out my shooting.

As long as you're letting students bring things, there's a security risk. Forbidding bags will not make a difference.

Edit: MG, try coming in dressed steampunk one day: shirt, trousers, waistcoat, cravat, pocketwatch. Top hat, frock/tailcoat, and gloves optional. I'd like to see them complain about someone being too nicely dressed.
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Postby bigglesworth » Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:34 pm UTC

We have a no-bags rule in classrooms, but we also have lockers.
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Postby Cheese » Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:40 pm UTC

bigglesworth wrote:We have a no-bags rule in classrooms, but we also have lockers.


Here's how my school (and presumably a great many others) works:

When we first moved into the shiny new building that smelled like a hospital, a form was handed to every pupil
The form had 3 tick boxes, and a comment box.
The question was this:

What would you most like added to the school?

The tick box answers were the following:

Trees
Benches
Lockers

And the comment box was 'other'.

Everybody, and I honestly mean everybody, ticked the 'lockers' box.
They gave us trees, and a few years later, benches.

I hate my school.
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Postby KicktheCAN » Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:56 pm UTC

Your school does not have lockers? What the hell? I have never heard of a High School without lockers.
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Postby EvanED » Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:59 pm UTC

xyzzy wrote:I say he should get a clear mesh purse, and hide a plastic cap-gun in it. Then he can find the principal, and show him the ineffectiveness of the policy. This isn't recommended if your school board cannot a) take a joke, b) accept that they could be wrong, or c) are real assholes.


In other words, it's not recommended.

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Postby Cheese » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:00 pm UTC

Now you have. I would post the location, name, etc., but that wouldn't make them give us lockers. Their excuse is that there's no space, but at least 3 different groups have suggested places that are suitable. Basically: the admin at the school sucks.
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Postby xyzzy » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:30 pm UTC

EvanED wrote:
xyzzy wrote:I say he should get a clear mesh purse, and hide a plastic cap-gun in it. Then he can find the principal, and show him the ineffectiveness of the policy. This isn't recommended if your school board cannot a) take a joke, b) accept that they could be wrong, or c) are real assholes.


In other words, it's not recommended.


True. Man am I glad I don't go to school in the US.
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Postby Bakemaster » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:57 am UTC

ZeroSum wrote:
Alpha Omicron wrote:clear backpacks: well, I was astonished to find out that there are cops in US schools on a regular basis and/or permanently.
That's only in a very small subset of US schools, mainly in gang-infested areas.

Citation needed. My high school had(/has) one on-duty officer and was(/is) certainly not gang-infested.
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Postby TiberiusM » Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:15 pm UTC

I graduated in '05, but about 11 years previous there was an incident at my high school.

Where I lived was fairly decent place, a mix of 'prep' and 'hick'. There was a fairly rich neighborhood down the road from the highschool, but there were also a ton of farmland nearby as well, so there was a mix of upscale and farmers. As far as I know, there weren't much safety restrictions put in place after the Clay Shrout incident. You could walk out into the parking lot along 'Redneck Row' and find shotguns in the cabs half of the trucks. There was a police officer stationed at the school, but he was mainly used for drug busts (there was a lot of cocaine around).

In the 4 years I went to the highschool, at least once a year a handgun was found in someones locker, but the school was never evacuated (it was mainly just punk idiots trying to look tough). The offender would be suspended for a week or two and then admitted again.

The only time the school was evacuated was for bomb threats (again, about once a year) and fire threats.

Not once did I ever feel unsafe (bomb threats were never real, as I'm positive the type of kids to issue them were too dumb to actually figure out how to make a bomb). Some teachers would abide by the 'no bags in classes' rule, but it was never punished. It was a fairly easy going place.

The clear/mesh bag idea was thrown around by faculty, but it was dropped as being pointless, because if someone felt like getting a weapon into the school, it could be done in something other than a backpack. I was lucky enough to attend a school where the faculty was aware that some rules were just illusions, and so they didn't implement them.

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Postby Sprocket » Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:39 pm UTC

This belongs in the man thread.
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Postby ifeedlions » Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:09 pm UTC

You belong in the man thread. (Burn)
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Postby gmalivuk » Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:13 pm UTC

Bakemaster wrote:
ZeroSum wrote:
Alpha Omicron wrote:clear backpacks: well, I was astonished to find out that there are cops in US schools on a regular basis and/or permanently.
That's only in a very small subset of US schools, mainly in gang-infested areas.

Citation needed. My high school had(/has) one on-duty officer and was(/is) certainly not gang-infested.


Yeah, mine too. The "police liaison officer" or somesuch. Though that was only after Columbine fucked people's heads enough to think that all our children are in extreme danger all of a sudden.
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Postby kaprodemono » Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:17 pm UTC

That really sucks that they force people to use really stupid clear backpacks. I suggest that you submit an anonymous letter that explains that a gun could easily be hid within a binder inside the clear backpack or a pencil case; maybe a lunch box. They could also tape a gun to their upper inner thigh. Then mention that the only way to prevent a weapon is to hand search every backpack. Hopefully, he'd understand that the stupid clear backpack rule does not prevent anyone from bringing a weapon to school and repeal the rule. You could also take it up with the school board. Finally, if you want to protest, "accidentally" rip holes in a cheap clear backpack and tape them with duct tape. When they tell you that you can't have the duct tape obscuring potential weapons, tell them that clear packing tape didn't work and that you can't afford to buy a new one because you're paying for your cancerous puppy's radiation therapy.

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Postby sethicus » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:45 pm UTC

when i was a senior in high school, we took a blowgun in for our senior project in geo/econ. we had to do a presentation for this project and imitated the Kids in the Hall office poaching scene. the blow gun was used to stun some kid in our class as we took his shoes and shirt while "paddling" down the hallway in a canoe on wheels. I forget how we related that to Canada, but we did get a perfect score.

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Re: The Man-Purse project...

Postby williamager » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:11 pm UTC

Earlz wrote:Ok, at my school, we have these rules that should work good(as in, they have a bit of a point). This rule is "Only clear or mesh backpacks are allowed in school"

Well, this *should* be a pretty fair rule. After all, with school shootings and such...


Personally, I think that such a rule is rather draconian and absurdly petty, as most such rules tend to be in high schools. I would simply refuse to follow it, and wait to see how the administration would react. If the school refuses to treat you with decency, then it probably isn't worth attending.

So, that day in the noon announcements, the principal made an announcement that non-clear backpacks will not be allowed to come into the building after next Wednesday. My friends are out raged! And for good reason...


Try using a proper, conservative, unimpeachable (and thus necessarily opaque) briefcase instead of a backpack. It would be amusing to watch the administration as they are forced to decide between punishing you for breaking the rules and thus being seen as discouraging professionalism, or ignoring the petty infraction and thus being seen as discouraging obedience.

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Re: The Man-Purse project...

Postby EvanED » Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:17 am UTC

williamager wrote:Personally, I think that such a rule is rather draconian and absurdly petty, as most such rules tend to be in high schools. I would simply refuse to follow it, and wait to see how the administration would react. If the school refuses to treat you with decency, then it probably isn't worth attending.


...and do what? Drop out? Go spend all your time working so you can pay for private school?

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Re: The Man-Purse project...

Postby williamager » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:28 pm UTC

EvanED wrote:
williamager wrote:Personally, I think that such a rule is rather draconian and absurdly petty, as most such rules tend to be in high schools. I would simply refuse to follow it, and wait to see how the administration would react. If the school refuses to treat you with decency, then it probably isn't worth attending.


...and do what? Drop out? Go spend all your time working so you can pay for private school?


I dropped out (of middle school, which was so miserable that I never got to high school) and went to a community college for two years, then transferred to a university. I've never regretted doing so. Professors, even at community colleges, actually treat their students with respect, other students are respectful, and the administrators, even if they aren't respectful, can't do anything absurd lest they lose their students.

In public schools, at least in the US, the administrators can implement whatever absurd policies they want, without fear of any consequences. I recall one public (elementary) school I went to where the principal decided to require that the only predominantly white class in the school walk around the campus every day before being allowed to eat lunch in the area 20 feet away from the classroom; protesting this with a letter, even after it was signed by the entire class, the teacher, and several parents, just resulted in the principal publicly slandering me. One has essentially no recourse in public schools when dealing with these sorts of absurd policies.

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Postby clockworkmonk » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:40 pm UTC

Most of the administrators for my schools were pretty cool. I mean, I had fun chats with the principal of my elementry, the middle school one was rather indifferent as was the High school one. But she was good at getting money.

The only beef I had with any of them was the high school one, for graduation. She required all girls to wear dresses under their graduation gowns. I mean, WTF? that royally pissed me off, and when we called the district, they said that there was not a damn thing we could do about it, as the principal is allowed to set all policy for elective events. Like graduation. It was absurd.

Sure, it did not affect me directly, but it still pissed me off.
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Re: The Man-Purse project...

Postby bigglesworth » Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:22 pm UTC

williamager wrote:In public schools, at least in the US, the administrators can implement whatever absurd policies they want, without fear of any consequences. I recall one public (elementary) school I went to where the principal decided to require that the only predominantly white class in the school walk around the campus every day before being allowed to eat lunch in the area 20 feet away from the classroom; protesting this with a letter, even after it was signed by the entire class, the teacher, and several parents, just resulted in the principal publicly slandering me. One has essentially no recourse in public schools when dealing with these sorts of absurd policies.


That's a) weird, b) racist c) unnecessary and probably several other letters...
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Postby @trophy » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:17 pm UTC

Cheese wrote:I'm not sure about handbags and such, but I'm thinking about going into school with pigtails in to scare my guidance teacher, who seems to think guys with long hair are breaking the law - any guys done this themselves (or girls getting masculine cuts for similar reasons)?


LOL yes I used to have my hair long whilst attending $evangelical_university and one day I came to class with my hair in pigtails. About halfway through the lecture, the professor finally noticed and asked "Tony, why do you have pigtails?" to which I replied "To keep the hair out of my face?"

He went straight back to the lecture and never said another word. But I think I spotted a smirk once or twice.

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Postby semicolon » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:30 pm UTC

Man, if I was going to shoot up a school, I'd find a fucking way to do it. Honestly, can't you just keep your gun in the front of your pants anyway, like in movies? Unless they have metal detectors for all the students to go through. Which would also be fucked up.

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Postby ZeroSum » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:50 pm UTC

semicolon wrote:Man, if I was going to shoot up a school, I'd find a fucking way to do it. Honestly, can't you just keep your gun in the front of your pants anyway, like in movies? Unless they have metal detectors for all the students to go through. Which would also be fucked up.
Even if they could get metal detectors to prevent guns from getting in there are plenty of non-metal based explosives and non-metal knives that could do plenty of damage.

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Postby Cheese » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:06 pm UTC

ZeroSum wrote:
semicolon wrote:Man, if I was going to shoot up a school, I'd find a fucking way to do it. Honestly, can't you just keep your gun in the front of your pants anyway, like in movies? Unless they have metal detectors for all the students to go through. Which would also be fucked up.
Even if they could get metal detectors to prevent guns from getting in there are plenty of non-metal based explosives and non-metal knives that could do plenty of damage.


And of course there are plenty of ways of stopping the people using the metal detectors... like shooting them? Fairly pointless exercises, unless they have armed security 24 hours.
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Postby Alpha Omicron » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:05 am UTC

[off topic]
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[/off topic]

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