Hussein: 1937-2006

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Hussein: 1937-2006

Postby Lani » Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:30 am UTC

CNN story here.

December 31 will mark the start of the Islamic holiday of Eid ul-Adha, the Festival of Sacrifice, which commemorates Ibrahim's (the Christian Abraham's) willingness to sacrifice his son for God. Killing Hussein the day before the start of this holiday of sacrifice seems like a really really bad idea.

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Postby Peshmerga » Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:51 am UTC

Image
His compassion for humanity, his unrelenting love for Earth and its inhabitants, and his kind and gentle heart will never be forgotten. Rest in peace.
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Postby Lani » Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:11 am UTC

Why is his earring an upside down Mercedes symbol?
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Postby Hawknc » Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:23 am UTC

In addition to genocide, Hussein's atrocities also included badging cars. However, since the only Mercs in Iraq at the time were his, it wasn't really brought up in the trial.

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Postby saxmaniac1987 » Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:24 am UTC

or its a poorly done peace symbol.
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Postby Hawknc » Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:27 am UTC

I think it's more likely that he was badging his own cars. ;)

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Postby Gelsamel » Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:30 pm UTC

Poor Guy.

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Postby rockintom99 » Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:59 pm UTC

That... just seems totally strange to me. I don't know how to feel.

<edit> I guess "somber" would work.
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Postby william » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:45 pm UTC

I find it really hard to sympathize with him even though I feel that both this war and the death penalty are wrong.
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Postby starvingartist » Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:10 pm UTC

I saw a video today on MySpace where there were images of him being played to that Sarah Mclaughin song "I Will Remember You." That completely ruined the song for me. At the end there was a line where I think made it all seem like a joke. Something about "warming our hearts with his villainy" but it just seems wrong to even mildly commemorate the man.

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Postby Air Gear » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:53 pm UTC

Just another murder. Gotta love the twisted sense of "justice" we humans have decided to go with.

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Postby fjafjan » Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:08 pm UTC

Air Gear wrote:Just another murder. Gotta love the twisted sense of "justice" we humans have decided to go with.

HE KILED THAT GUY!

-Now if we kill him, he will learn his lesson!
- But boss, if we kill him...
- NOT NOW! I am in the middle of being angry and killing him!

Bompadabompbomp

DISSHHHH

Something like that right?

I generally agree that death panalty, or "capital punishment" as it is called, thus not having as much to do with DEATH, and more with ... your capital, and large letters, is wrong.
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Postby Wikey » Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:24 pm UTC

Yeah, killing him seems really dumb to me.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, and all that.

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Postby Belial » Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:05 am UTC

Just another murder. Gotta love the twisted sense of "justice" we humans have decided to go with.


Not justice, really. Revenge.

Such a poor value.

But so satisfying in the short term that it'll never go away...

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Postby Peshmerga » Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:12 am UTC

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Postby Air Gear » Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:47 am UTC

Wow, thanks for the link to the snuff film, Pesh. I'm sure the sickos of the world are all out with their tissues and lotion over that shit.

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Postby Peshmerga » Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:52 am UTC

At least mine doesn't have a virus in it.
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Postby hrryank » Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:55 am UTC

I feel bad that I spent half an hour digging through youtube and google video to find that.
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Postby rockintom99 » Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:55 am UTC

Belial wrote:
Just another murder. Gotta love the twisted sense of "justice" we humans have decided to go with.


Not justice, really. Revenge.

Such a poor value.

But so satisfying in the short term that it'll never go away...


You find satisfaction with execution?
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Postby fjafjan » Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:32 pm UTC

rockintom99 wrote:
Belial wrote:
Just another murder. Gotta love the twisted sense of "justice" we humans have decided to go with.


Not justice, really. Revenge.

Such a poor value.

But so satisfying in the short term that it'll never go away...


You find satisfaction with execution?


His point I believe is that SOME people do, revenge it is called, that when someone has wronged you, you find pleassure in them being wronged too.
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Postby Peshmerga » Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:48 pm UTC

I think it's a basic human need to fulfill revenge. Imagine if someone had killed your entire family in the most horrific sense possible.

Yeah, you'd be pissed. Not saying capital punishment is right or wrong, it's just inexorable; especially for a guy that has killed thousands of innocent people.
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Postby fjafjan » Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:53 pm UTC

Peshmerga wrote:I think it's a basic human need to fulfill revenge. Imagine if someone had killed your entire family in the most horrific sense possible.

Yeah, you'd be pissed. Not saying capital punishment is right or wrong, it's just inexorable; especially for a guy that has killed thousands of innocent people.


Oh sure it's human. Not all humans think it is RIGHT tho, and condone that sort of behaviour.
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Postby aldimond » Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:54 am UTC

Peshmerga wrote:I think it's a basic human need to fulfill revenge.


I'd be pretty careful throwing around terms like "basic human need". Did you hear about the guy that gunned down an Amish schoolhouse a few months ago? The community didn't call for revenge at all. Their seeming lack of anger was strange to me, but it is proof of how so many of our attitudes and behaviors are socially determined.
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Postby Vaniver » Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:31 am UTC

I find it really hard to sympathize with him even though I feel that both this war and the death penalty are wrong.
Just another murder. Gotta love the twisted sense of "justice" we humans have decided to go with.
Yeah, killing him seems really dumb to me.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, and all that.
Yay for truisms and cowardly moralities?

It's unnatural to feel that all human lives are always sacred. Anyone who feels that Saddam Hussein has not lost his personhood through his crimes, or that he does not deserve to die, needs to remove their rose-colored glasses.

(Of course, unnatural doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong, but I would argue it is)

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Postby williamager » Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:23 am UTC

What I found most shocking about the execution was the utter lack of respect, immaturity, and impropriety found in the witnesses. Shouting "You will go to hell!" during an execution is entirely repugnant, as is all the other taunting that takes place.

Furthermore, removing the sound in the officially released video of the execution is dishonest and portrays an unruly event as the sombre and dignified enforcement of a sentence. Regardless of whether the execution was just, misrepresenting the manner of the execution, and even allowing the execution to proceed in such a manner, is entirely unacceptable.

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Postby Aoeniac » Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:16 pm UTC

Just because he caused the deaths of a lot of people doesn't mean I can't empathize with him.
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Postby hyperion » Mon Jan 01, 2007 2:53 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:It's unnatural to feel that all human lives are always sacred. Anyone who feels that Saddam Hussein has not lost his personhood through his crimes, or that he does not deserve to die, needs to remove their rose-colored glasses.

(Of course, unnatural doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong, but I would argue it is)

not sacred, but his death was a bit pointless.
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Postby Vaniver » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:59 pm UTC

not sacred, but his death was a bit pointless
To whom? The people celebrating it seem to think it had a point.

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Postby william » Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:35 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:
I find it really hard to sympathize with him even though I feel that both this war and the death penalty are wrong.
Just another murder. Gotta love the twisted sense of "justice" we humans have decided to go with.
Yeah, killing him seems really dumb to me.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, and all that.
Yay for truisms and cowardly moralities?

It's unnatural to feel that all human lives are always sacred. Anyone who feels that Saddam Hussein has not lost his personhood through his crimes, or that he does not deserve to die, needs to remove their rose-colored glasses.

(Of course, unnatural doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong, but I would argue it is)

Sorry, but when you take away the personhood from somebody who kills a thousand people, next you take it from somebody who kills a hundred people, next you take it from somebody who kills ten, next you take it from somebody who kills one, next you take it from somebody who steals a million dollars, next you take it from the poor soul who had to steal a loaf of bread in order to not starve, next you take away the personhood from everybody, and then are you really better than the person who kills a thousand people?
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Postby LE4dGOLEM » Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:32 pm UTC

I'd take the personhood of someone that killed intentionally, whilst not in a drug-induced state or such, fully knowing that their action was going to kill that person, and still killing them with malice and no regrets directly regarding killing them (and not about being punished). As for theft, well, I'm all for a succesful execution of Communism anyway.

...They weren't bad last words though ("Is this how real men behave" or something)
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Postby Hawknc » Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:36 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:Yay for truisms and cowardly moralities?

It's unnatural to feel that all human lives are always sacred. Anyone who feels that Saddam Hussein has not lost his personhood through his crimes, or that he does not deserve to die, needs to remove their rose-colored glasses.

(Of course, unnatural doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong, but I would argue it is)

Bold claim. Got anything to back it up? Because there's a few religions and pretty much every human rights treaty in existence that would disagree with you.

Besides, if we all did what was "natural" (by which I can only assume you mean instinctive or emotional), we wouldn't have a society in which to debate this sort of thing.

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Postby Air Gear » Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:52 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:
I find it really hard to sympathize with him even though I feel that both this war and the death penalty are wrong.
Just another murder. Gotta love the twisted sense of "justice" we humans have decided to go with.
Yeah, killing him seems really dumb to me.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, and all that.
Yay for truisms and cowardly moralities?

It's unnatural to feel that all human lives are always sacred. Anyone who feels that Saddam Hussein has not lost his personhood through his crimes, or that he does not deserve to die, needs to remove their rose-colored glasses.

(Of course, unnatural doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong, but I would argue it is)


"Cowardly moralities" and "rose-colored glasses", huh? Nothing like throwing around bullshit buzzwords and pretending that you must have this huge pair of balls compared to the pussies or whatever around you. Let's not also forget the use of the term "unnatural". Great job. I could keep going, but I've already given this talk-radio style crap more than enough of my time.

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Postby Peshmerga » Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:00 pm UTC

"Is this how real men behave" is more hypocritical than I care to expand on.

Still - In the wide-lens scope of things, one life is hardly anything to take up arms about (now now, don't come at me with 'well what if your sister dies!'). I agree that the shouting, if it was indeed taunting (I haven't read any translations yet), was completely unnecessary and undignified - but then again, the witnesses truly felt this man was the sole cause for every suffering moment in their lives. Saddam Hussein was directly responsible for killing thousands of families, destroying the fabric of basic society. He had a choice to rule through fear or through compassion.

If you ask me, we're given the same choice. If this man had killed my family, my friends, and the ones I loved - there would be nothing left in me to stop myself from pulling the trap door. Without hesitation. I'd rather be damned the rest of my life knowing I did everything I possibly could for the lives he stole, than rotting in my own grief knowing I still can do more.
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Postby starvingartist » Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:27 pm UTC

For all of you who think that the death penalty was an innapropriate means of dealing with Saddam Hussein, what do you suggest would have been better? Just locking him up?

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Postby fjafjan » Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:43 pm UTC

starvingartist wrote:For all of you who think that the death penalty was an innapropriate means of dealing with Saddam Hussein, what do you suggest would have been better? Just locking him up?


Yes, I don't see why keeping someone alive is such a shocking suggestion

If you ask me, we're given the same choice. If this man had killed my family, my friends, and the ones I loved - there would be nothing left in me to stop myself from pulling the trap door. Without hesitation. I'd rather be damned the rest of my life knowing I did everything I possibly could for the lives he stole, than rotting in my own grief knowing I still can do more.


So you would gladly do what he did then, act through hate rather than forgiveness?
You don't actually help the victims of a crime by killing whoever comitted them, au contraire.
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Postby Peshmerga » Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:30 pm UTC

fjafjan wrote:So you would gladly do what he did then, act through hate rather than forgiveness?


Gladly? I don't think anything in my life would be done gladly if the ones I loved were killed in the most brutal sense of the word.

But I would. Without question. If I thought death wasn't punishment enough, I'd find out how to most painfully bring judgment to them. Maybe that's 'wrong' of me, but that's what I'd do. Sorry but I'm getting tired of this "ooh let's try and save everyone's life to make the world happy and cheery"; it's an unrealistic, idealistic, utopian goal that will never happen, and it's worthless to even try to convince me otherwise.

Sentencing someone to life in a federal prison is MUCH worse than execution. If you would call what they have lives. Simply put, if you think the death penalty is unethical, life in a federal prison is downright unnatural.
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Postby LE4dGOLEM » Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:48 pm UTC

Peshmerga wrote:If I thought death wasn't punishment enough, I'd find out how to most painfully bring judgment to them. Maybe that's 'wrong' of me, but that's what I'd do.


Like I've said. Lie him down. Heavy steamroller-drum type thing, start at his feet and slowly roll up towards his head. The strangest complaint I've had about this was that "It reminds me too much of how Jesus was killed"
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Postby fjafjan » Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:00 pm UTC

Peshmerga wrote:
fjafjan wrote:So you would gladly do what he did then, act through hate rather than forgiveness?


Gladly? I don't think anything in my life would be done gladly if the ones I loved were killed in the most brutal sense of the word.

But I would. Without question. If I thought death wasn't punishment enough, I'd find out how to most painfully bring judgment to them. Maybe that's 'wrong' of me, but that's what I'd do. Sorry but I'm getting tired of this "ooh let's try and save everyone's life to make the world happy and cheery"; it's an unrealistic, idealistic, utopian goal that will never happen, and it's worthless to even try to convince me otherwise.

Sentencing someone to life in a federal prison is MUCH worse than execution. If you would call what they have lives. Simply put, if you think the death penalty is unethical, life in a federal prison is downright unnatural.


Because going on "what feels right at that moment" is a great way of being ethical.
"look, he had slept with my girl, i was PISSED, so I shot him int he face. WOULD YOU NOT HAVE DONE THE SAME?!"

As for federal prisons sucking, yeah, But to ME, it seems like a more rational suggestion to improve federal prisons, rather than KILL EVERYONE SERVING LIFE THERE.
But then I guess im one of them crazy idealists
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Postby Wikey » Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:05 pm UTC

fjafjan wrote:
starvingartist wrote:For all of you who think that the death penalty was an innapropriate means of dealing with Saddam Hussein, what do you suggest would have been better? Just locking him up?


Yes, I don't see why keeping someone alive is such a shocking suggestion


Seriously.

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Postby Peshmerga » Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:08 pm UTC

fjafjan wrote:Because going on "what feels right at that moment" is a great way of being ethical.
"look, he had slept with my girl, i was PISSED, so I shot him int he face. WOULD YOU NOT HAVE DONE THE SAME?!"


I suggest reading up on weak arguments. There are varying degrees of anger. And I'd be more angry at the girl, anyhow- because she's a fucking slut.

fjafjan wrote:As for federal prisons sucking, yeah, But to ME, it seems like a more rational suggestion to improve federal prisons, rather than KILL EVERYONE SERVING LIFE THERE.
But then I guess im one of them crazy idealists


Improve federal prisons? Why not remove every incentive for people to not break the law.
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