Do you lie?

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Do you lie? Please read post before voting.

I don't lie at all
32
9%
Bald faced lies
41
11%
Lies by omission
103
27%
Lies to children
12
3%
White lies
59
16%
Emergency lies
38
10%
Jocose lies
90
24%
 
Total votes: 375

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Zohar
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Do you lie?

Postby Zohar » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:42 am UTC

Simple - what kinds of lies do you tell, if any? Choose the options that are most frequent for you. For definitions (for the current thread, I don't want this to turn into a semantic discussion), here's part of Wikipedia's article on lies:

Spoiler:
Bald-faced lie
A bald-faced (or barefaced) lie is a lie told when it is obvious to all concerned that it is a lie. For example, the child with chocolate all over her face who denies having eaten the cake is a bald-faced liar. The adjective “bald-faced” indicates that no attempt has been made to hide the fact that it is a lie.
The bald-faced liar does not intend to deceive anyone because it is obvious to all concerned that he or she is lying. Thus, a bald-faced lie does not count as a lie according to the standard definition of lying. However, several philosophers have argued that a bald-faced lie really is a lie.[1] And they have tried to give definitions of lying that do not require an intention to deceive. For example, it has been suggested that lying is asserting something that you believe to be false (regardless of whether you have an intention to deceive).

Lying by omission
Lying by omission is when an important fact is omitted, deliberately leaving another person with a misconception. This includes failures to correct pre-existing misconceptions.

Lie-to-children
A lie-to-children is an expression, or more specifically a euphemism, that describes a lie told to make an adult subject, such as sex, acceptable to children. The most common example is "The stork brought you." or hiding honesty and truth e.g. I will tell you when you are a little bit older.

White lie
A white lie would cause no discord if it were uncovered and offers some benefit to the liar or the hearer, or both. As a concept, it is largely defined by local custom and cannot be clearly separated from regular lies with any authority. As such the term may have differing meanings in different cultures. Lies which are harmless but told for no reason are generally not called white lies.
In western countries, a white lie is typically taken to mean an untruth with an alleged justification such as to avoid upsetting a person, to encourage a person or just for harmless convenience. An example of a white lie is a nurse who reassures a disfigured patient that he looks healthy, or an aged husband who assures his wife that she looks just as good as when he married her. This kind of white lie is, in many instances, known to be an untruth by all involved parties, but overlooked out of diplomatic tact or politeness. For example, when two people collide in a crowded hallway and one falls down, he might tell the other that he's not hurt, even if he's hurt a little bit.

Emergency lie
Emergency lie is a different kind of white lie, which is employed when the truth may not be told because, for example, harm to a third party would come of it. An example of such an emergency lie would be a neighbor lying to an enraged husband about the whereabouts of his unfaithful wife, because said husband might reasonably be expected to inflict physical violence should he encounter his wife in person. Although the moral integrity of the wife may certainly be put into question, the threat of violence is considered to be the more pressing issue, which could justify the lie in this case depending on the moral axioms employed.

Jocose lies
Jocose lies are lies which are meant in jest and are usually understood as such by all present parties. Sarcasm can be one example of this. A more elaborate example can be seen in storytelling traditions which are present in some places, where the humor comes from the storyteller's insistence that he or she is telling the absolute truth despite all evidence to the contrary (i.e. tall tale).


For this thread I would include in lies to children also the simplifying of scientific truths while omitting the existence of more complicated matters.

Lies by omission include careful speaking and generally not exactly lying but not giving all of the information.

As for myself, the cases in which I lie outright are when I wish to protect someone else's privacy or with jocose lies (never knew that word). I sometimes lie by omission as well (like if someone asks me "do you have a girlfriend?", I will simply answer "no" and not "no, I'm gay", so as to avoid a longer, more boring conversation). I am careful not to tell white lies.

Feel free to post stories of when you got into trouble for lying, or the opposite - you weaved an intricate web of lies and managed to get away with it. Those are always fun.
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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Toeofdoom » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:47 am UTC

Okay, first, where the hell is the "I lie for my own personal benefit" lie? Not that I do it, but it should be there.

And only being able to vote for 2 options seems to slightly defeat the purpose.
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Re: Do you lie?

Postby scowdich » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:52 am UTC

The one thing that annoys me when I lie jocosely is that people often don't believe me when I tell them I was fucking with them. It's frustrating to be so believable, but only when lying (apparently).

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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Insignificant Deifaction » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:44 am UTC

No. I don't lie. Lying is one of the worst things to do from my position.
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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Jesse » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:48 am UTC

...on your hands and knees?

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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Morphing Ball » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:49 am UTC

Just the jocose ones. I'm not one to do any sort of proper lying.

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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Hawknc » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:51 am UTC

I also only tell jocose lies.


...Alright, no, that's a lie. I don't even know what jocose means.

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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Morphing Ball » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:53 am UTC

I only knew what jocose meant because I read the OP.

I wouldn't be lying if I said I had an inkling, though. I totally had an inkling.

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Re: Do you lie?

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:55 am UTC

Jesse: Best. Response. Ever.

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Re: Do you lie?

Postby pointfivenine » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:58 am UTC

I only lie when I don't necessarily remember the truth.
Or when I'm using horrible wonderful sarcasm.
What?

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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Hawknc » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:07 pm UTC

The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:Hawk: Are you serious?

Maybe. Or maybe I'm lying. :?:

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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Morphing Ball » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:08 pm UTC

I think he was being jocose.

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Re: Do you lie?

Postby unjovial » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:19 pm UTC

Sadly, the lies I use most are lies to children. This is because I run a programme for kids about Domestic Violence. I always answer children as honestly as I can, even if the truth isn't all sweet and lovely, as long as it's not going to be traumatic for them. Unfortunately, the interview process with the parents before the children start the programme reveal some very traumatic truths - such as parents resenting their own children or that some children were conceived during rape. Then there are the those social truths, which I'm apparently not allowed to relay to other people's children, like that we live in a gendered society or that we cannot sustain the world's population on our natural resources and they're the ones who will be most affected by our short-sighted, consumer-driven mentality.

The kids I come into contact with have usually experienced some cruel reality and I don't ever deny their reality or minimize it, but I do believe that we need to treat a child's emotional well-being/spirit/confidence as greatly important to their development. Sometimes (or often, for me) this means chopping the truth into edible chunks for them, rather than watch them struggle and choke on the whole piece.

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Re: Do you lie?

Postby PictureSarah » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:24 pm UTC

I chose "I don't lie at all," which is generally my policy. I suppose there have been lies by omission in the past, but I can't think of any off the top of my head. I know it's been quite a while. I decided never to lie when I was a kid, not because I was an especially good little kid and wanted to never lie, but because I don't have enough control over my emotions or facial expressions to be a good liar. My parents would know in an instant, which would compound this situation. It wasn't worth it. Now that I'm older, I might be able to pull it off if I had any desire to...but I don't. It's nice that with me, what you see is what you get for the most part, and I don't have to worry about keeping my lies consistent.
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Re: Do you lie?

Postby The Spherical Cow » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:26 pm UTC

I picked "Lying by omission" and "White lie", but only because they're the most common types I use. Well, that and jocose lies.

But I lie all the time. Just in minor details mostly, but a lot of stories I tell people have at least some alteration made to them. Things like the people present, the timescale that things happened in, who said and did what, what I did - including inserting myself into events where I wasn't present.

I also lie about work, what classes I've got and when, how I'm feeling, what I've been doing and what my plans are. It just tends to make things easier, and a lot of the time I don't even think about doing it, I just say it.
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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Vanguard » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:48 pm UTC

I omit things or use white lies here and there. Maybe jocose but sarcasm is something almost everyone uses.
White lies to me aren't harmful to anyone unless interpreted badly.
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Re: Do you lie?

Postby TiberiusM » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:13 pm UTC

I'd never actually heard it called 'bald-faced' lie (Which I immediately took as an insult to the bearded kind). I'd always heard it called a 'bold-faced' lie. Which is kinda nearly the same thing. But I lie by omission.

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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Vanguard » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:21 pm UTC

Bald faced, bold faced, it all depends on where you're from.
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Re: Do you lie?

Postby dubsola » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:26 pm UTC

I think it's bald-faced because the lie is plain for all to see, and not obscured by any metaphorical facial hair.

I never lie because I'm bad at it, or maybe I'm bad at it because I never do it. It's important to be honest.

However apparently lying about eating chocolate cake with one's mouth covered in chocolate is actually a lie, so by that definition, I do lie. I used to lie about being sick, about once a year, if I wanted the day off. Terrible, I know. Also, what unjovial said - you don't always want to be completely honest about everything to kids.

I occasionally lie for the purposes of practical jokery. That's ok, I think.

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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Vanguard » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:28 pm UTC

dubsola wrote:However apparently lying about eating chocolate cake with one's mouth covered in chocolate is actually a lie, so by that definition, I do lie. I used to lie about being sick, about once a year, if I wanted the day off. Terrible, I know.


I think that qualifies as a white lie. I do that here and there. Sometimes I'm "sick" but not bad enough to stay home from school, but I might say it is.
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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Robin S » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:42 pm UTC

I didn't notice that we could vote for more than one option, and put "emergency lies" only (though, come to think of it, I have been in some situations where emergency lies would have been appropriate, and ended up telling the truth anyway; that was how my first relationship ended). I also lie jocosely occasionally. As time has progressed, I have found myself gradually dropping each category of lying: first bald-faced lies, then white lies, then lies by omission and now, it seems, emergency lies too. I have never - as far as I can recall - told lies-to-children, but am sarcastic on a reasonably frequent basis. I think that covers it.
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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Razzle Storm » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:51 pm UTC

I never lie at all
Spoiler:
except when it is convenient

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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Engma » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:52 pm UTC

When I really look at it, I lie quite often.

I've told lies to protect other people's privacy quite often. For some reason, several closeted or semi-closeted people have come out to me in the past few years. So when someone asked me "Is so-and-so gay?", my response has been "I don't know."

I've also lied by omission a lot to protect other people's privacy and feelings. I'm becoming friends with a girl who's really into a close friend of mine. She really wants to date him and be with him, but he's really not interested at all. She's asked me some questions (mostly rhetorical ones) and made statements about his character (ie: "he wouldn't do that") that are downright false. I figure it's not my place to put her right, especially when the situation is very complicated and delicate.

Sadly, I'm a pretty good liar. It became a habit when I was a kid, in order to stay out of trouble. So, now when I'm in a similar situation of "I might be in trouble", the little kid in me lies almost effortlessly. It's something I'm trying to stop, but it's really hard when lying is just as natural as breathing. I should be a politician.
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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Robin S » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:56 pm UTC

Telling the truth impulsively is just as bad.
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Re: Do you lie?

Postby jynjin » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:57 pm UTC

I've noticed that as I have continued to separate myself from my religious upbringing I have begun to lie a lot less. In the school I attended, lies by omission were not only helpful for avoiding punishment, but necessary for social survival there. Now, I edit to generalizations when the other party isn't "worth the time" of full explanation (such as those gossips fishing for juicy bits you are forced to be cordial with for civility sake).

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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Robin S » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:58 pm UTC

jynjin wrote:those gossips fishing for juicy bits you are forced to be cordial with for civility sake
I don't think I've ever encountered one of those.
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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Belial » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:03 pm UTC

I don't know why the "lie with intent to deceive and no mitigating factors but which *isn't* obvious to everyone involved" isn't on there. That's pretty much the *standard* sort of lie.

Anyway.

I lie occasionally. Usually by omission: it's more honest, and it doesn't leave a bad taste in my mouth. Also, it requires more skill and is generally more fun. Occasionally in the "emergency" and "white" sense: If I don't have the time to deal with the consequences of telling the absolute truth, I will put off doing so by those means. I try to avoid such things, though.

I rarely tell lies to children: I avoid talking to children whenever possible, and when I am forced to, I rarely have an interest in shielding them from the "harsh truth"

Anyone with a sense of humour tells jocose lies, I don't even know why that's up for discussion.

I will occasionally alter stories from my life that I recount later in order to make the chain of events clearer or remove needless complication that doesn't enhance the effect of the story.

Robin S wrote:
jynjin wrote:those gossips fishing for juicy bits you are forced to be cordial with for civility sake
I don't think I've ever encountered one of those.


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Re: Do you lie?

Postby jynjin » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:03 pm UTC

So, you've never met my mother then. :wink: (Or a good 70% of the congregation my physical body shows up to every Sunday.)

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Re: Do you lie?

Postby d3adf001 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:15 pm UTC

some times i lie for no reason at all. i think its just because i can. most of the time they are harmless except when i lie to ignorant people because i think its funny

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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Elenion » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:30 pm UTC

I picked Lies by omission and White lies, but I also lie for my own benefit or to protect myself or other ppl from hurt/harm/stress/trouble. I don't feel guilty about it either.
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Re: Do you lie?

Postby @trophy » Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:03 pm UTC

I tend to think that to lie is to show complete disrespect for the privilege of being able to communicate at all. The fact that we feel we have to lie in order to not hurt each other's feelings just shows how cut off from each other we really are...


That said, I voted "I don't lie at all" and "Bald faced lies" in order to skew the data as much as possible... :twisted:
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Re: Do you lie?

Postby zingmaster » Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:37 pm UTC

Nicely done. If you don't like the system, screw it up.

As for lying, I'm way too sarcastic for my own good, and apparently sarcasm is lying. So I'm a liar. But lying is where the line between right and wrong gets cloudy. Like the question of "How much would you pay for _____?" this asks "How far would you go to defend _____?"
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Re: Do you lie?

Postby d3adf001 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:39 pm UTC

@trophy wrote:I tend to think that to lie is to show complete disrespect for the privilege of being able to communicate at all. The fact that we feel we have to lie in order to not hurt each other's feelings just shows how cut off from each other we really are...


That said, I voted "I don't lie at all" and "Bald faced lies" in order to skew the data as much as possible... :twisted:


i lie when i shouldnt and tell the truth when i should lie. alot of people call me an asshole and condescending, i call myself frank. also im extremely sarcastic

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Re: Do you lie?

Postby 22/7 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:28 pm UTC

Gawd yes! All the time. It's usually little things, like when my mother asks me if I've done laundry recently (I say yes and then go do some laundry because I feel bad) or about a surprise or when someone asks me how my day was, I refer to it as nondescript even though I saw this interesting line up the side of one of the buildings on campus and starting thinking about how many crash pads I'd need to climb it.
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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Robin S » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:36 pm UTC

See, I'd either mention that - if it was to someone I thought would find it entertaining - or say something like "nothing you'd find particularly interesting", leaving it open to further questioning if they are feeling inquisitive.
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Re: Do you lie?

Postby xooll » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:50 pm UTC

Why can I only select two options? I tell jocose lies, white lies, and lies by omission. I've probably told a bald-faced lie or two too. Sometimes I lie when it doesn't matter at all, for no real reason. This most often takes the form of pretending not to remember stuff. Not sure why I do that.

I have recently developed a bit of a reputation for creative jocose lying. For example, someone complains of a headache, and I tell them that they don't actually need a head to live, and recent studies at a major midwestern university have proven that the head is actually harmful to human life and those who had their heads surgically removed were shown within a remarkably small error margin to live about 40% longer. If they question it, I say "It's SCIENCE!"
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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Verator » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:18 pm UTC

I want my selfish evil generally despicable option! I lie for my own benefit, or for amusement/ sarcastic purposes. I see no purpose in shielding others, especially children from the truth of the world. as for lies by omission, well, those are under the selfish purposes category for me, it's usually because I want them at a disadvantage for something.
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Re: Do you lie?

Postby space_raptor » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:25 pm UTC

I tell white lies, and jocose lies.

I would tell an emergency lie if the situation called for it.

I generally don't feel bad about telling white lies. They are the lubricant of polite society. Or the only answer to the dreaded "Do these pants make my ass look big?" question.

However, if something has practical/real consequences, I am direct and truthful to the point of being called tactless. Each issue is different, so I can't really categorize what I'd tell a white lie about and what I wouldn't.
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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Elenion » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:47 pm UTC

xooll wrote:Sometimes I lie when it doesn't matter at all, for no real reason. This most often takes the form of pretending not to remember stuff. Not sure why I do that.


I do that too, and I don't know why. It just sorta happens sometimes.
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Re: Do you lie?

Postby Verator » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:52 am UTC

space_raptor wrote:I generally don't feel bad about telling white lies. They are the lubricant of polite society. Or the only answer to the dreaded "Do these pants make my ass look big?" question.


When that is asked, I usually respond honestly, like most of the time. I value honesty and trust more than anything else in friendships/ relationships, and I'll be painfully honest sometimes, but I think it's for the better.
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