Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Things that don't belong anywhere else. (Check first).

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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby bluebambue » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:00 pm UTC

roband wrote:It's also possible this is a different girlfriend. I certainly believe I recall Tom saying something along those lines.

But judging people from half-remembered stuff is fine too.
I am 99% sure that Tom has a new gf.

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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Sytri » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:02 pm UTC

Yeah, I think Tom and girl from Kewangji's post broke up. This is a new and older girl. I would trawl through the posts to find it but I'm at work.

Reason for me coming here: I honestly don't think I'm good at my job, I just stumble onto things and I'm quick at picking things up so it looks like I know what I'm doing. It's getting me by just not enough to help me up the career ladder. Although I'm a contractor so I don't know how much of a career ladder that is.

No one tells you of the career prospects of a mercenary desk-monkey when you're growing up.
Apathy will kill us all. Or not. Whatever.

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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby SurgicalSteel » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:59 pm UTC

Sytri wrote:mercenary desk-monkey
I'm definitely using this on my resume instead of "Contract Software Developer".

(not really)
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Menacing Spike » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:03 pm UTC

Sytri wrote:: I honestly don't think I'm good at my job, I just stumble onto things and I'm quick at picking things up so it looks like I know what I'm doing. It's getting me by just not enough to help me up the career ladder. Although I'm a contractor so I don't know how much of a career ladder that is.


The reverse for me. The more I see other people's work, the more I start to wonder that maybe I am actually competent.

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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Sytri » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:18 pm UTC

Had a conversation with my boss where he extended my contract and he told me a story of how another department had hired someone to do the same job as me, he had the experience and the CV to back it up etc. Turns out he was telling fibs and they're stuck with him as he's a permanent employee. He also hinted that I'm more competent. All it made me think was, "How bad is the other dude if I'm better than him?
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Tomlidich the second » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:52 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Give better feedback.

indeed, this is whats happening currently. I am very happy to find a person whom i can speak with about this stuff openly, so its working.
Sytri wrote:Yeah, I think Tom and girl from Kewangji's post broke up. This is a new and older girl. I would trawl through the posts to find it but I'm at work.

^true.
also i shall probably edit original post to be more vague because i guess these fora do count as public domain.
Sytri wrote:Reason for me coming here: I honestly don't think I'm good at my job, I just stumble onto things and I'm quick at picking things up so it looks like I know what I'm doing. It's getting me by just not enough to help me up the career ladder. Although I'm a contractor so I don't know how much of a career ladder that is.

No one tells you of the career prospects of a mercenary desk-monkey when you're growing up.


pretty sure this is everybody who holds down a job higher than fast food monkey.

troubleshooting and fixing things (my trade) is the very definition of "stumble around til you find the problem" but with slightly more science thrown around.
Last edited by Tomlidich the second on Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:54 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Tomlidich the second » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:53 pm UTC

sorry, double tap.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:18 pm UTC

Tomlidich the second wrote:pretty sure this is everybody who holds down a job higher than fast food monkey.


...yeah, I'm gonna have to ask you.. y'know.. not do that? A job is better than no job and all, and with the job market being what it is, there's more than what should be over-educated fast food employees out there simply because they bought in to the Go To College, Major in something Serious (like Business or Law), Graduate and Get A Real Job and only found out that no one wants to hire someone with a couple of degrees and no experience and yet rent still needs paying (and all that temp work did jack and shit) so... there they are, making a hamburger next to a guy who dropped out at 16. Also, nothing really inherently wrong with working fast food - work's work, shitty work's shitty work and everyone knows it's shitty work, so no reason to kick someone when they're down.

So they spend the entire time wondering just where the hell they fucked up. Which is why your order is wrong.

Unless it was Charles. That motherfucker would take whatever half-slurred garbage of an order you threw at him and the shit would be immaculate. Well, as immaculate as a fast food order can be. And then they tore the place down to make a larger gas station.

...

I hope Charles is doing well out there, wherever he is.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Tomlidich the second » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:32 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
Tomlidich the second wrote:pretty sure this is everybody who holds down a job higher than fast food monkey.


...yeah, I'm gonna have to ask you.. y'know.. not do that? A job is better than no job and all, and with the job market being what it is, there's more than what should be over-educated fast food employees out there simply because they bought in to the Go To College, Major in something Serious (like Business or Law), Graduate and Get A Real Job and only found out that no one wants to hire someone with a couple of degrees and no experience and yet rent still needs paying (and all that temp work did jack and shit) so... there they are, making a hamburger next to a guy who dropped out at 16. Also, nothing really inherently wrong with working fast food - work's work, shitty work's shitty work and everyone knows it's shitty work, so no reason to kick someone when they're down.

So they spend the entire time wondering just where the hell they fucked up. Which is why your order is wrong.

Unless it was Charles. That motherfucker would take whatever half-slurred garbage of an order you threw at him and the shit would be immaculate. Well, as immaculate as a fast food order can be. And then they tore the place down to make a larger gas station.

...

I hope Charles is doing well out there, wherever he is.



sorry, perhaps i should have phrased that differently.

but as far as jobs go, fast food, is not a hard job, and hardly a "stumble around til you figure out the answer" job. unless the kitchen is very disorganized, and you have never in your life seen or heard of hamburger meat, bread, and mayonaisse.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Kewangji » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:31 pm UTC

I have heard of mayonnaise, but only in that sentence. Does that count? What is mayonnaise?
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Tomlidich the second » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:32 pm UTC

Kewangji wrote:I have heard of mayonnaise. Does that count?

congratulations! you are hired! for all the jobs! all of them!
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Kewangji » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:33 pm UTC

Sweet. *presidents the shit out of this country*
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Wednesday » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:41 pm UTC

Tomlidich the second wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:
Tomlidich the second wrote:pretty sure this is everybody who holds down a job higher than fast food monkey.


...yeah, I'm gonna have to ask you.. y'know.. not do that? A job is better than no job and all, and with the job market being what it is, there's more than what should be over-educated fast food employees out there simply because they bought in to the Go To College, Major in something Serious (like Business or Law), Graduate and Get A Real Job and only found out that no one wants to hire someone with a couple of degrees and no experience and yet rent still needs paying (and all that temp work did jack and shit) so... there they are, making a hamburger next to a guy who dropped out at 16. Also, nothing really inherently wrong with working fast food - work's work, shitty work's shitty work and everyone knows it's shitty work, so no reason to kick someone when they're down.

So they spend the entire time wondering just where the hell they fucked up. Which is why your order is wrong.

Unless it was Charles. That motherfucker would take whatever half-slurred garbage of an order you threw at him and the shit would be immaculate. Well, as immaculate as a fast food order can be. And then they tore the place down to make a larger gas station.

...

I hope Charles is doing well out there, wherever he is.



sorry, perhaps i should have phrased that differently.

but as far as jobs go, fast food, is not a hard job, and hardly a "stumble around til you figure out the answer" job. unless the kitchen is very disorganized, and you have never in your life seen or heard of hamburger meat, bread, and mayonaisse.
Spoiler for angry yelling at tom.
Spoiler:
So, as someone who works in what could be called fast food and retail's sweet lovechild (loosely): Fuck you. My job is not easy. My job takes a lot of hard work and knowledge. Granted, I'm a manager, but my sales associates work very hard too, and have to do a lot of learning to keep up with the job. You do not get to pass judgement on ANYBODY who works ANY job that is not yours or one you've held very recently. I wake up very early and get home very late and travel a fair distance to maintain a job that can keep myself fed regularly. I stand all day, I fuck up my knees doing the work, and I am frequently yelled at by my customers for doing the best I can. My job is hard physically, hard emotionally, and is sometimes even challenging intellectually, though you may not believe it! A job does not need to be hard *intellectually* to be difficult *inherently.* I am 100% certain you could not do my job if you just jumped in.

And just for the record, MOST kitchens are horrendously disorganized, run by incompetent managers, and disgusting in terms of health and food safety. It is a hard job keeping any kind of food establishment well organized and up to code, particularly in an industry with a high turnover rate like fast-food, and I do a damn fine job at it.

So yeah basically fuck you for passing judgement on a job you don't experience like the rest of us monkeys do.
Last edited by Wednesday on Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:49 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby doogly » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:47 pm UTC

Preach.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Zarq » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:56 pm UTC

Kewangji wrote:I have heard of mayonnaise, but only in that sentence. Does that count? What is mayonnaise?


According to the lady in my school's cafeteria, mayonnaise is the principal ingredient of a ham sandwich.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:04 am UTC

Wednesday beat me to it. I mean.. fuck, I've never worked in food service, and even I know that the usual state of a kitchen is Situation Normal:All Fucked Up.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Wednesday » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:17 am UTC

Yeah that kitchen nightmares show is more like kitchen normal dreams with a slightly worse than normal manager.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby SurgicalSteel » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:17 am UTC

I don't think Tom was saying the working in a kitchen isn't a demanding job, I think he was saying it's not a hard job in the sense that it's not intellectually difficult. That is to say, there have been plenty of times in my current when someone gave me a project and I said to myself "ok, how am I going to do this." When I was a cook I was never handed a pasta salad, or burger, or fruit platter order and thought "how am I going to do this?" after the first week or so of training. Food service is tiring, sometimes dangerous, messy, and mentally draining, but after training there was never a moment that made me question if I really knew what I was doing. That happens quite often at my current job (or, it used to before we stopped taking on new projects and went into maintenance mode).
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Wednesday » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:45 am UTC

I do not think "fast-food monkey" necessarily only implies intellectual capacity. I repeat, my job is not even easy intellectually most of the time. I have a fuckton of problems to solve on a daily basis. Let me remind you that serving and making food is not the only thing someone in fast food ever does. Also, I get to interpret his insult however charitably I want because that is how language works when it is vague - he said a shitty thing that insults me, my employees, and everyone who has ever worked in fast food. So I am yelling.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby SurgicalSteel » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:56 am UTC

Pretty sure "fast-food monkey" was riffing on "mercenary desk-monkey." Also, I never said you didn't have the right to get unreasonably angry over a message you admitted you don't fully understand. That being said, it makes you sound immature and like someone prone to knee-jerk reactions when you do, and when you react the way you have to someone who suggests an alternative interpretation, it only reinforces how immature you are acting.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby doogly » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:25 am UTC

The problem is your alternative explanation came out of your ass, and it still stinks.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:28 am UTC

SurgicalSteel wrote:Pretty sure "fast-food monkey" was riffing on "mercenary desk-monkey." Also, I never said you didn't have the right to get unreasonably angry over a message you admitted you don't fully understand. That being said, it makes you sound immature and like someone prone to knee-jerk reactions when you do, and when you react the way you have to someone who suggests an alternative interpretation, it only reinforces how immature you are acting.

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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby SurgicalSteel » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:41 am UTC

Wow, real mature people in here tonight.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:53 am UTC

No, just people who have had shit jobs.

Like I said, I never did food stuff, but I did work retail. Shit was way harder than anything else I've ever done specifically because there wasn't much to occupy the mind. Zoning out and suddenly being at the end of a shit, tired, me tally drained and no idea what happened and knowing that even though you just closed, you're opening the next day and get to do it again....

I don't ever want to do that again. I prefer my current easy job, where I just maintain a few dozen different company's computer infrastructures, each one unique and requiring a few dozen pages just to describe the layout and purpose.

So, yeah. Fuck all y'all calling that shit easy or mindless or whatever.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Zarq » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:48 am UTC

Wednesday wrote: I repeat, my job is not even easy intellectually most of the time. I have a fuckton of problems to solve on a daily basis.


May I ask an example? Just for curiosity's sake.

SecondTalon wrote:specifically because there wasn't much to occupy the mind
[...]
So, yeah. Fuck all y'all calling that shit [...] mindless [...]


Didn't you just call it mindless too?

mind•less (ˈmaɪnd lɪs)
adj.
1. showing, using, or requiring no intelligence or thought
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby PAstrychef » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:34 pm UTC

Fuck, y'all-I'm a food service professional with several degrees, one of them in cognitive neurolinguistics. I've been baking for over twenty years now, and most of my coworkers over the years would have seen any desk job as a pansy-assed way of making a living. Also, "stumbling around until you figure out what's gone wrong" sounds like a crappy method of troubleshooting. What ever happened to fault diagrams, and failure trees, and if not a then try b? I mean, anyone can flail around at a problem and hope they fix it, but do they understand why the failure happened in the first place?
There are different skill and mind sets needed for different jobs. Neither is essentially, inherently, morally better than the other. Sneering and making snide comments about certain types of jobs because they are seen as the jobs stupid people have is tacky, rude and just makes you look bad.
Just like making rude comments at people on the street based on their looks, you mostly know nothing about why people have the jobs they have. Using prejudice about certain jobs to increase your feelings of success is a cheap dig.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Wednesday » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:51 pm UTC

PAstrychef wrote:Fuck, y'all-I'm a food service professional with several degrees, one of them in cognitive neurolinguistics. I've been baking for over twenty years now, and most of my coworkers over the years would have seen any desk job as a pansy-assed way of making a living. Also, "stumbling around until you figure out what's gone wrong" sounds like a crappy method of troubleshooting. What ever happened to fault diagrams, and failure trees, and if not a then try b? I mean, anyone can flail around at a problem and hope they fix it, but do they understand why the failure happened in the first place?
There are different skill and mind sets needed for different jobs. Neither is essentially, inherently, morally better than the other. Sneering and making snide comments about certain types of jobs because they are seen as the jobs stupid people have is tacky, rude and just makes you look bad.
Just like making rude comments at people on the street based on their looks, you mostly know nothing about why people have the jobs they have. Using prejudice about certain jobs to increase your feelings of success is a cheap dig.
Man, not to mention the bullshit that is calling someone immature for being justifiably upset because the hard work they put in to getting their job in the first place, being good at their job, and maintaining/rising the metaphorical ladder there is being laughed at. And no, SurgicalSteel, I won't provide you any goddamned examples so that you can judge whether or not my job is actually challenging at all so that you can further put me down. Use your non-monkey-brain imagination.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Zarq » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:57 pm UTC

I'm not SurgicalSteel.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Sytri » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:43 pm UTC

I wish I could swap my job for working in a bakery, I've always enjoyed seeing the fruits of my labour in a physical form. Spreadsheets are ethereal and when you tell people that you've created a wonderful spreadsheet their eyes glaze over faster than you can say, "would you like to see my collection of rocks?"

Tell someone that you can bake and that you've made everyone a cake and they're your best friend. I envy you both Wednesday and PAstrychef.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:01 pm UTC

Zarq wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:specifically because there wasn't much to occupy the mind
[...]
So, yeah. Fuck all y'all calling that shit [...] mindless [...]


Didn't you just call it mindless too?

mind•less (ˈmaɪnd lɪs)
adj.
1. showing, using, or requiring no intelligence or thought
No, but I did word things poorly.

From my experiences in Retail, there's nothing that occupies your entire mind at once going on. Instead, you've got dozens of minor things that aren't that big of a deal, except you're supposed to be doing all of them at once as well as always always always paying attention to the customer because the customer is both the reason you exist and to be as pampered as they can be AND thieving fuckfaces who are attempting to steal the entire store right now.

Working a retail job was always a case of working a 5-8 hour shift and being told to do 8-12 hours of work on top of dealing with the customer (y'know, the entire reason the store exists) and getting yelled at for not doing everything you were told to do by six different bosses, nevermind that you'd have to violate the laws of time, space and physics to accomplish all goals.

So pretty much your mind is occupied by trying to optimize your tasks on your own, prioritizing which boss you can ignore today and which one you need to pay attention to, and coming up with efficient ways of doing your job as whatever the store taught you was the most ass-backward and time consuming way to do it.

Running a register is partially better, but not really as pretty much every retail thing now has some Rewards Program or what have you that you're always supposed to discuss with the customer despite the customer giving off the "If I didn't need it in the next 12 hours, I'd have ordered everything online to avoid talking to anyone" vibes or even flat out saying shit like "Please don't talk to me about your reward card" - those were the ones that always appeared when your boss was also wandering by, leaving you with the incredibly difficult choice of piss off some person who you completely empathize with as you don't want to talk about the shit either OR get yelled at by that boss later.

There's not much intellectual stimulation going on, true - or at least no rewarding intellectual stimulation. But it's not mindless. Doing it leaves you mentally drained. I never read so little as when I was working retail as I couldn't summon the energy to do it, and I'm a person who finds great relaxation in reading.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby SurgicalSteel » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:10 pm UTC

So, I'm gonna take this from the top:
Tomlidich the second wrote:
Sytri wrote:Reason for me coming here: I honestly don't think I'm good at my job, I just stumble onto things and I'm quick at picking things up so it looks like I know what I'm doing. It's getting me by just not enough to help me up the career ladder. Although I'm a contractor so I don't know how much of a career ladder that is.

No one tells you of the career prospects of a mercenary desk-monkey when you're growing up.
pretty sure this is everybody who holds down a job higher than fast food monkey.
I interpreted this to mean "nobody ever really knows what they're doing in their job except fast food workers." I gave Tom the benefit of the doubt and assumed he meant because after training you should pretty much know how to do everything that will be asked of you, not because "food service is easy and only stupid people do it." Going back through the discussion I realize I probably was wrong to give him the benefit of the doubt after reading:
Tomlidich the second wrote:sorry, perhaps i should have phrased that differently.

but as far as jobs go, fast food, is not a hard job, and hardly a "stumble around til you figure out the answer" job. unless the kitchen is very disorganized, and you have never in your life seen or heard of hamburger meat, bread, and mayonaisse.
I must have spaced on that post when I made my "I think Tom meant ..." post, because I was interpreting his response to Sytri, not to SecondTalon. That was an it's-after-midnight-and-i've-been-drinking fail. My bad.

That said, even in the clear light of non-tipsy day, I still think Wednesday was a tad out of line in their initial response to me.
Wednesday wrote:I do not think "fast-food monkey" necessarily only implies intellectual capacity. I repeat, my job is not even easy intellectually most of the time. I have a fuckton of problems to solve on a daily basis. Let me remind you that serving and making food is not the only thing someone in fast food ever does. Also, I get to interpret his insult however charitably I want because that is how language works when it is vague - he said a shitty thing that insults me, my employees, and everyone who has ever worked in fast food. So I am yelling.
The only time anyone has ever said "Let me remind you ..." to me was right before they were about to get all belittling or uppity ("Let me remind you that I'm the customer here!" "Let me remind you that I'm the boss!").
Wednesday wrote:Also, I get to interpret his insult however charitably I want because that is how language works when it is vague - he said a shitty thing that insults me, my employees, and everyone who has ever worked in fast food.
First of all, this sentence kind of comes out of nowhere, since nowhere in my post did I say you were wrong for being angry. Second, "I get to interpret his insult however charitably I want" is the part that made me call you immature. You could have said "I don't agree with your interpretation" or even "No, you're wrong, go back and read his post again dick" but you went with essentially "I don't have to understand his post."

So, I was wrong because I missed a couple of Tom's posts, but I think Wednesday was a little wrong to jump into attack-mode so quick after I offered up an alternative interpretation, even if it was wrong and based on incomplete information. Maybe I shouldn't have called you immature, maybe you shouldn't have talked down to me.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby doogly » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:16 pm UTC

When all else fails, tone police.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Carlington » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:23 pm UTC

She didn't even give her opponent a chance to tap blockers - the fuck is that about?
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:08 pm UTC

Munchkin rules - give a three count and if there are no objections, proceed.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby pseudoidiot » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:19 pm UTC

I thought it was 2.8 seconds.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Menacing Spike » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:31 pm UTC

doogly wrote:When all else fails, tone police.


Yes civil discourse is not required from people you like. This is somehow fair.

I should probably check my privilege or something, but I'm not going to know because it's not your job to educate me?

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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby doogly » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:36 pm UTC

That was not coherent.
LE4dGOLEM: What's a Doug?
Noc: A larval Doogly. They grow the tail and stinger upon reaching adulthood.

Keep waggling your butt brows Brothers.
Or; Is that your eye butthairs?

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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Menacing Spike » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:41 pm UTC

doogly wrote:That was not coherent.


I've noticed a lot of people using phrases such as "tone policing!" "check your privilege" "it is not my job to educate you" or such as a way to shut down discussions without addressing any arguments.

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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby doogly » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:47 pm UTC

It's sounds like you are upset that you don't know what people mean by "tone policing" and "privilege," and so you repeat phrases you don't understand in a belligerent and sarcastic manner.

Would you prefer to understand?
LE4dGOLEM: What's a Doug?
Noc: A larval Doogly. They grow the tail and stinger upon reaching adulthood.

Keep waggling your butt brows Brothers.
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Wednesday » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:34 pm UTC

Sorry Zarq, I did miss that you made that request, not SurgicalSteel. My response holds however.
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