Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Things that don't belong anywhere else. (Check first).

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Azrael
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Azrael » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:03 pm UTC

SurgicalSteel wrote:So, I was wrong because I missed a couple of Tom's posts, but I think Wednesday was a little wrong to jump into attack-mode so quick after I offered up an alternative interpretation, even if it was wrong and based on incomplete information. Maybe I shouldn't have called you immature, maybe you shouldn't have talked down to me.

No, you were wrong because you were wrong. Stop trying to excuse or diminish your mistake because someone else was mean after the fact.

Suck it up.

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(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:04 pm UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:
doogly wrote:That was not coherent.


I've noticed a lot of people using phrases such as "tone policing!" "check your privilege" "it is not my job to educate you" or such as a way to shut down discussions without addressing any arguments.

I've noticed that this happens when the arguments are stupid re-hashed nonsense and the reasoning behind ignoring them are frequently super easy to find.
Heyyy baby wanna kill all humans?

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Azrael
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Azrael » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:13 pm UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:
doogly wrote:
Menacing Spike wrote:
doogly wrote:When all else fails, tone police.
Yes civil discourse is not required from people you like. This is somehow fair.

I should probably check my privilege or something, but I'm not going to know because it's not your job to educate me?
That was not coherent.
I've noticed a lot of people using phrases such as "tone policing!" "check your privilege" "it is not my job to educate you" or such as a way to shut down discussions without addressing any arguments.

Tone policing is calling someone out for addressing an argument's tone, rather than content. It's what Surgical was doing in claiming Wednesday was wrong because she wasn't nice. Calling it out in the fashion that doogly did is equivalent to saying "when all else fails, just strawman my position". The key here is that there is no argument to further refute. He is pointing out that Surgical's position is (to use the technical term) shitty -- per above post, getting angry at you for your mistake does not excuse your mistake.

I have just gone out of my way to educate you as to what a very common phrase means, despite having no obligation to do this. When you expect (e.g. act like someone should, complain that someone doesn't) educate you on a term that you are unfamiliar with, you are expressing a position of privilege -- namely that you believe people *are* obligated to educated you (they aren't), but also that you are lucky enough to come from a background where the standard behavior *is* to educate you rather than just dismiss your lack of knowledge.

All three of these are, more or less, quick and easy ways to suggest that a person needs to a) become aware of their own faults, b) learn what the fuck they're saying and that c) it is not the speaker's obligation to do it.

You are now educated. No more whinging.

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SurgicalSteel
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby SurgicalSteel » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:17 pm UTC

Azrael wrote:
SurgicalSteel wrote:So, I was wrong because I missed a couple of Tom's posts, but I think Wednesday was a little wrong to jump into attack-mode so quick after I offered up an alternative interpretation, even if it was wrong and based on incomplete information. Maybe I shouldn't have called you immature, maybe you shouldn't have talked down to me.

No, you were wrong because you were wrong. Stop trying to excuse or diminish your mistake because someone else was mean after the fact.

Suck it up.
What? I admitted I was wrong. What does "you were wrong because you were wrong?" mean? I just developed my wrongness in a vacuum that has nothing to do with the things I was commenting on?
Azrael wrote:Tone policing is calling someone out for addressing an argument's tone, rather than content. It's what Surgical was doing in claiming Wednesday was wrong because she wasn't nice.
Ok, maybe I shouldn't have used the word "wrong," because I never had a problem with Wednesday's argument. Literally the only problem I had with them was that they weren't, as you put it, "nice." That's why I called them "immature" instead of "incorrect." And I've already said that I was probably too quick to label them such.
"There's spray paint on the teleprompter
Anchorman screams that he's seen a monster (mayday)
There's blood stains on his shirt (mayday)
They say that he's gone berserk."
--Flobots "Mayday"

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Tomlidich the second
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Tomlidich the second » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:16 am UTC

alright i think i need to address everyone here and calm down our usual polite and friendly fora to its regular state.

also, i need to issue an apology. i did not mean to offend fast food workers in any way. in fact, i WAS the fast food monkey at one time, and yes, its a demanding job. not in the sense that i didn't know what i was doing, but in the sense that there must be some level in hell that is a fast food joint where they send the worst people, and i would not wish that job on anybody.

i have been lucky enough to move up from fast-food monkey up to tech crap clearing monkey, all the way to IT desk job monkey. im still kind of a monkey that doesn't know what he is doing, and is still weirded out by keyboards as an idea transfer interface,





Tomlidich the second wrote:
Sytri wrote:Reason for me coming here: I honestly don't think I'm good at my job, I just stumble onto things and I'm quick at picking things up so it looks like I know what I'm doing. It's getting me by just not enough to help me up the career ladder. Although I'm a contractor so I don't know how much of a career ladder that is.

No one tells you of the career prospects of a mercenary desk-monkey when you're growing up.
pretty sure this is everybody who holds down a job higher than fast food monkey.

Tomlidich the second wrote:sorry, perhaps i should have phrased that differently.

but as far as jobs go, fast food, is not a hard job, and hardly a "stumble around til you figure out the answer" job. unless the kitchen is very disorganized, and you have never in your life seen or heard of hamburger meat, bread, and mayonaisse.

i think this is close, but missing my original intent slightly.

point is, all jobs are hard. everything we do is hard. it wouldn't be a "job" unless it was hard and sucked and noone wanted to do it unless you paid them. and we all have those shitty days where the ice machine broke again and our shitface of a manager wants us to get it running for opening in three hours. (seriously, fuck my old boss)
never think less of yourself because you are struggling in a job. ever. and don't let anyone put ya down.
i think thats what i really really wanted to say, and i really just wanna make others feel better about themselves. and even though, yes, i work what could be called a cushy desk job, i still get those days where im on a roof in the middle of goddamn nowhere at 3 am wondering how im gonna fix the broken wireless antenna im staring at.


Wednesday wrote:Also, I get to interpret his insult however charitably I want because that is how language works when it is vague - he said a shitty thing that insults me, my employees, and everyone who has ever worked in fast food.

im really, really sorry wednesday, and i hope i did not cause you too much undue distress. and i do hope we can still be friends.
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Menacing Spike
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Menacing Spike » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:08 am UTC

Tomlidich the second wrote:point is, all jobs are hard. everything we do is hard. it wouldn't be a "job" unless it was hard and sucked and noone wanted to do it unless you paid them.


Clearly you haven't heard of the french senate.

Choboman
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Choboman » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:30 pm UTC

It seems like the original comment that started this whole shit storm was intented to reassure that pretty much everyone feels overwhelmed, under-qualified, and generally out of their depth, unless they're in a job that they percieve themselves to be over-qualified for (which has its own frustrations). The 'fast-food monkey' thing was poor phrasing in that it makes assumptions about which jobs people should percieve as 'beneth them', but at least I believe that the words were used in ignorance, not malice.

I suspect most people are unhappy or at least stressed at their work. Either we feel overwhelms and fear that we'll fail at our tasks, or we worry that we're in a dead end job and that we're already failing. Either we never realized our potential or we got promoted past our expertise, or we've become experts at something that doesn't really matter, or that there's too much pressure because what we do matters an overwhelming amount, etc. I often feel all of these at once.

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SurgicalSteel
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby SurgicalSteel » Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:49 pm UTC

Nah, it started because I posted at Wednesday while drunk, then continued to do so while stupid.
"There's spray paint on the teleprompter
Anchorman screams that he's seen a monster (mayday)
There's blood stains on his shirt (mayday)
They say that he's gone berserk."
--Flobots "Mayday"

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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby PolakoVoador » Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:02 pm UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:
Tomlidich the second wrote:point is, all jobs are hard. everything we do is hard. it wouldn't be a "job" unless it was hard and sucked and noone wanted to do it unless you paid them.


Clearly you haven't heard of the french any senate.


FTFY

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Sean Quixote
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Re: Confessional Shed - I'll keep a look-out

Postby Sean Quixote » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:25 am UTC

So anyway...

I occasionally am overtaken by a compulsion to search YouTube for "Office Space printer scene parodies", and then spend multiple hours watching, and re-watching (and re-watching, and re-watching, and re-watching...) them. An appreciable portion of this time in my altered state is spent going back to the original again, and watching and re-watching (and re-watching, and re-watching, and re-watching...) that one to compare the new parodies that I find to it and re-remember all of the important elements® of it, and judging the parodies on their consistency with it. (Here's one. And the original, just FYI.... :shock: )

And when I say "occasionally", I mean I've done it twice now, the first time was maybe a year ago give or take. But this time I had an idea of my own, which quite possibly in all actual fact may be a really, really bad idea for lots of reasons that I won't go into. Not least among them being that I would be just as obsessive about getting it right... And in my mind part of that would be finding (at least) two other people that could help me, as there are three characters in the scene... And then, which character do I "play" in it? Sadly I think "Samir" is out because he's the most underused character in the trio. So do I want your Ron Livingston ("Peter Gibbons") who as the main character of the movie guy creates the whole context for the scene but is never shown actually striking the machine and has a very calm demeanor throughout? Nah. "Michael Bolton" is the star of this scene, and therefore the most complex to play. He has the most aggression for the machine. Oh, wait, I said I wasn't going to get into it didn't I...

But, then again, if I somehow managed to do it just right it could be fucking awesome.


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