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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby ExplodingHat » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:48 pm UTC

Radio Shack, why must you sell smooth-shafted electric motors, but stock no gears for them? In related news, does anyone know of an adhesive that works well on smooth metal while under constant stress?
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Ptolom » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:41 pm UTC

Epoxy will stick to most things if you rough them up a bit with sand paper first. Super glue sticks well to metal but I don't know how well it holds up with constant motion.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:44 am UTC

Epoxy would be my choice, too. Just use some sandpaper to rough the shaft up a little along its length first. I've also used rubber cement to bind metal to metal before, and it seems to hold up under moderate strain just fine (it's holding a reasonably sized photographic lens to its mount).
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Eseell » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:09 am UTC

8 to 10 weeks to grade this test. Argh. At least I'll finally have the results soon.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby ExplodingHat » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:41 am UTC

Rubber cement is normally my go-to, but at ~1400rpm, it didn't hold up. Hot glue slipped after a while, and the friction actually melted it and I think some might've entered the motor. :| Sanded the shaft and used crazy glue (now with convenient brush applicator :mrgreen:), and it's held up well for the last couple hours. Motor heats up now, though, from the hot glue fiasco. Not perfect, but I'm calling this one a win.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby thorgold » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:02 am UTC

Consumers: If you purchase any product that gives you the option to tip your server, the MINIMUM is 15%. Baristas, waiters, even pizza guys - we all are paid with tips in mind; the minimum hourly wage is reduced for jobs that have tips involved. Delivery jobs are even worse, as we're not paid hourly but on a per-job basis. In short, approximately half of a server's pay comes from the customer directly through tips; when you don't pay the full 15%, you are ripping us off.

Yes, there are times when a server doesn't deserve 15%. I wouldn't expect a $30 tip just because you ordered a dozen pizzas, and it's perfectly fine if you think the service rendered wasn't worth your money (dropped food, rudeness, etc). However, when I do my job right and 15% isn't extravagant, you look like a douchebag if you don't pay. It's particularly bad when the difference between 10% and 15% is mere cents - sure, it's not really ripping me off to get $2.25 instead of $2.50, but you come off as a prick for doing it.

You're ordering $40 of pizza and having it delivered from a store 5 minutes away. You are not strapped for cash. Paying a full 15% (or hell, paying extra!) is a pittance compared to what you're paying just for the act of having it delivered. When you pay the full 15%, it makes a min-wage worker's day. When you pay 10 or 5%, you will be remembered as "That guy on Willow who tips like shit," for whom future deliveries will be deprioritized and shuffled to the new guy who doesn't have a GPS.

(Posted after getting shafted $1 tips by three out of five deliveries today)
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby e^iπ+1=0 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:00 am UTC

Employers: pay your fucking employees. If you need an extra 15% to do so, then make the actual price of the product 15% more. Otherwise, when people don't pay that 15% in tips, your employees aren't getting fair wages. And for me as a customer, I don't see why tips should be expected rather than something that I choose to give if service is especially good.

Or in short: I understand where you're coming from, but I think the problem is more with the system itself.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Chen » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:39 am UTC

thorgold wrote:Delivery jobs are even worse, as we're not paid hourly but on a per-job basis. In short, approximately half of a server's pay comes from the customer directly through tips; when you don't pay the full 15%, you are ripping us off.


Wait delivery jobs are paid per job and depending on how much is actually ordered? Is that common everywhere?

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:53 pm UTC

Probably. It's not even close to surprising for me.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Dobblesworth » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:54 pm UTC

Should I give tips to servers at Costa Coffee/Caffe Nero if I'm only there for a sandwich and a soft drink, specifically 'eating-in' and the sandwich heated at point-of-sale after purchase? Cos they're technically the same barristers.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby pseudoidiot » Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:01 pm UTC

If there are barristers having to make ends meat by working at a coffee shop then they could probably use all the tips they can get.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Ptolom » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:21 pm UTC

Freshers' week. It's like I've booked myself into a cheap hotel for a fortnight for no reason, at the same time as the local rugby club.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:02 pm UTC

Dobblesworth wrote:Should I give tips to servers at Costa Coffee/Caffe Nero if I'm only there for a sandwich and a soft drink, specifically 'eating-in' and the sandwich heated at point-of-sale after purchase? Cos they're technically the same barristers.

Only if the tip jar doesn't say Karma Jar.

If it does, first write on the bills in your best Morbo font KARMA DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY and then tip.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby bigglesworth » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:03 pm UTC

Actually, giving money away to the needy seems like quite a good way to get good Karma and therefore improve the station of your reincarnation.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Menacing Spike » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:38 pm UTC

bigglesworth wrote:Actually, giving money away to the needy seems like quite a good way to get good Karma and therefore improve the station of your reincarnation.


I like to imagine I spent dozens of lives accruing karma then blew it all up on being a middle class european chugging nutella all day long.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby thorgold » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:45 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
thorgold wrote:Delivery jobs are even worse, as we're not paid hourly but on a per-job basis. In short, approximately half of a server's pay comes from the customer directly through tips; when you don't pay the full 15%, you are ripping us off.


Wait delivery jobs are paid per job and depending on how much is actually ordered? Is that common everywhere?

It's fairly common, at least in food delivery as I'm aware. It doesn't make sense to pay delivery guys per hour when 90% of the time we're sitting around waiting for the next order to finish. However, I've had weekends where I make $10 over a 5 hour shift simply because either:
A) The boss called in too many drivers so 10 orders get split between 10 people.
B) Everyone was watching "The Dark Knight Rises" and only one person orders pizza
C) I get all of the edge-of-map delivery jobs, so I get fewer overall

Yes, it's a problem with the system, but it's simultaneously a solution. I wouldn't have a job if my boss had to pay me on an hourly rate - it's sort of the nature of food service, it's such an entry-level job with fast turnover that it's easier to go with low pay and as little paperwork as possible than to make it a full position.

I'm just glad I've got an interview for a retail position this week. Sure, tougher hours and less personal time (I got through the entirety of Brin's Uplift series at work last month), but it'll be reliable pay and NO GODDAMN TIPS.
Last edited by thorgold on Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:52 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby bigglesworth » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:52 pm UTC

thorgold wrote:It doesn't make sense to pay delivery guys per hour when 90% of the time we're sitting around waiting for the next order to finish.
They manage to do it in the UK.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby thorgold » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:54 pm UTC

bigglesworth wrote:
thorgold wrote:It doesn't make sense to pay delivery guys per hour when 90% of the time we're sitting around waiting for the next order to finish.
They manage to do it in the UK.

Hm. Well.

Shit.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Adacore » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:12 am UTC

Everywhere I've ever lived, the idea of tipping a delivery driver, or a bartender, or a coffee shop server, or a taxi driver is entirely alien. I've only ever tipped waiting staff in the UK (the standard 10%), and don't tip at all in East Asia. I'd get screwed over so much if I lived in the US, just because I suspect I wouldn't realise when I was supposed to tip for lots of things, so would come over as a jerk all the time.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Suzaku » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:25 am UTC

Adacore wrote:Everywhere I've ever lived, the idea of tipping a delivery driver, or a bartender, or a coffee shop server, or a taxi driver is entirely alien. I've only ever tipped waiting staff in the UK (the standard 10%), and don't tip at all in East Asia. I'd get screwed over so much if I lived in the US, just because I suspect I wouldn't realise when I was supposed to tip for lots of things, so would come over as a jerk all the time.

This. (Except Australia for me, not UK)

Also: Best of luck with the interview, thorgold. Hope it goes well.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby suffer-cait » Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:00 am UTC

My boyfriend tips everyone 20% all over the place. including people i would never think to tip. i assume this is because he was raised with much more money than i and his family went to nicer places where maybe you tip the.......whoever.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Suzaku » Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:54 am UTC

< :evil: > GAH. I work in IT. IT, goddammit! Do not ask me to interpret legal documents! Even if they're related to IT.
Ask the guys in LEGAL to interpret legal documents. That's what they do, gettit??? </ :evil: >

Seriously, reading this legal stuff turns your brain to jelly (JelloTM in the US).
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby roband » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:17 am UTC

Ptolom wrote:Freshers' week. It's like I've booked myself into a cheap hotel for a fortnight for no reason, at the same time as the local rugby club.

I don't understand the rant, this sounds wonderful! There's no-one more fun than a rugby team ;)

Suzaku wrote:I work in IT.


Me too, can WE get tips?

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Suzaku » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:45 am UTC

roband wrote:Me too, can WE get tips?

Users give me tips all the time.
Usually of the form, "You know what you should do? You should ..." well, you get the picture.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Chen » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:51 am UTC

thorgold wrote:It's fairly common, at least in food delivery as I'm aware. It doesn't make sense to pay delivery guys per hour when 90% of the time we're sitting around waiting for the next order to finish. However, I've had weekends where I make $10 over a 5 hour shift simply because either:
A) The boss called in too many drivers so 10 orders get split between 10 people.
B) Everyone was watching "The Dark Knight Rises" and only one person orders pizza
C) I get all of the edge-of-map delivery jobs, so I get fewer overall


I can see the reasoning on a per delivery payment but the value of the delivery hardly affects the amount of work being done, which is what I was surprised at. Delivering 3 pizzas to a place compared to 1 pizza to a place isn't terribly different I'd imagine (sure you need to carry 2 extra boxes in one case). But its odd they'd base compensation on that.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby emceng » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:31 pm UTC

bigglesworth wrote:
thorgold wrote:It doesn't make sense to pay delivery guys per hour when 90% of the time we're sitting around waiting for the next order to finish.
They manage to do it in the UK.


My questions would be: how many places deliver, and to what size geographical area? The US is big. Really f-ing big. There's a bit of a difference between having a delivery driver for your corner curry shop who can hop and his bike and be back in 5 minutes, versus driving a pizza out into the countryside.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby bigglesworth » Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:27 pm UTC

Deliveries here are not usually done by bicycle. If you mean moped, then perhaps.

But I don't know, I've not lived in the countryside before (in which there would be some analogous distances, unless you live at the top of one of the Rockies or something).
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby torontoraptor » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:58 pm UTC

I'm a university student. I always TRY and tip, but tipping well is hard.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Ptolom » Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:48 pm UTC

roband wrote:
Ptolom wrote:Freshers' week. It's like I've booked myself into a cheap hotel for a fortnight for no reason, at the same time as the local rugby club.

I don't understand the rant, this sounds wonderful! There's no-one more fun than a rugby team ;)

Maybe so, but I'm socially inept and I don't drink. The alternative is supposed to be the Christian Union, but I'm also a socailly inept atheist so that's no good either.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Ashlah » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:27 am UTC

torontoraptor wrote:I'm a university student. I always TRY and tip, but tipping well is hard.

I've heard many servers say, "If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat out."
(Although it looks like you're saying you do tip, just not as much as you might like)

In Oregon, unlike other states, servers are no paid less than minimum wage. I still always tip 20%. Mostly because I find it's easier math than 15% :P And you'll still look like a douche if you don't tip because even though $8.80 is a lot more than servers make in other states, it still isn't that much. (But makes it more frustrating when you can't accept tips in other minimum wage jobs, such as retail).

The one type of service I never know how much to tip for is when you pick up food from a restaurant. They didn't serve you. If tips get split with cooks, then I can see the need to tip. And someone bagged it up. But that doesn't seem like a 20% situation... Thoughts?

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby SurgicalSteel » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:38 am UTC

Ashlah wrote:The one type of service I never know how much to tip for is when you pick up food from a restaurant. They didn't serve you. If tips get split with cooks, then I can see the need to tip. And someone bagged it up. But that doesn't seem like a 20% situation... Thoughts?
I don't tip in this situation. I've worked in a few restaurants as a cook and never gotten a portion of the tips. In my experience tips are only split between the waitperson and the busperson servicing that table. No cooks, no host. The only two people involved when I pick up food.

Also, yea, I figure the tip into the cost of eating if I'm on a budget. If I have 15 bucks to spend on going out to eat, I buy 10-12 dollars worth of food at most.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Adacore » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:50 am UTC

SurgicalSteel wrote:
Ashlah wrote:The one type of service I never know how much to tip for is when you pick up food from a restaurant. They didn't serve you. If tips get split with cooks, then I can see the need to tip. And someone bagged it up. But that doesn't seem like a 20% situation... Thoughts?
I don't tip in this situation. I've worked in a few restaurants as a cook and never gotten a portion of the tips. In my experience tips are only split between the waitperson and the busperson servicing that table. No cooks, no host. The only two people involved when I pick up food.

Waiter Rant suggests a 7-10% tip for take-out orders (assuming your usual tip is 20%). But then he's a very zealous pro-tipping advocate in almost every situation.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby SurgicalSteel » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:01 am UTC

Who do you tip though? The host?
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Adacore » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:51 am UTC

I guess so. You tip who you pay, perhaps? Getting take-out food from an actual restaurant (as opposed to a fast food place) isn't something I've ever done. I think it's much more common in the US than in the UK.

EDIT: Not strictly speaking true. I used to get take-out frequently from a Fish & Chips place near my flat in London that also had a restaurant, but the take-out was the main business there, the restaurant was just on the side, so it's not really the same.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby torontoraptor » Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:50 am UTC

I always try and give a somewhat decent tip to delivery drivers (doing that job in a Canadian winter has to SUCK), but that's normally pooled between several people. Bartenders I also tip, because I worked at one for a bit, and I know how thankless it is. But sometimes, you just don't have time to go home and grab food while on campus, and if you only have enough to pay for your meal, welp, you gotta eat. Wages and prices really should be raised to accommodate the true cost though.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby jawdisorder » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:09 am UTC

torontoraptor wrote: Wages and prices really should be raised to accommodate the true cost though.

While I agree with this I don't really see how it could work. It's been ingrained in everyone's head that not tipping is rude so even if people were told that prices account for tip amounts they would probably still feel like an ass if they didn't tip.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby roband » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:32 am UTC

Ptolom wrote:
roband wrote:
Ptolom wrote:Freshers' week. It's like I've booked myself into a cheap hotel for a fortnight for no reason, at the same time as the local rugby club.

I don't understand the rant, this sounds wonderful! There's no-one more fun than a rugby team ;)

Maybe so, but I'm socially inept and I don't drink. The alternative is supposed to be the Christian Union, but I'm also a socailly inept atheist so that's no good either.

Yeah, I can appreciate that. I was oversimplifying it in my previous post. All the rugby teams I know will drink with absolutely anyone - but the drinking is a necessity.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby emceng » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:45 pm UTC

I am so close to sending a rather heated email to our finance people. I know it isn't her fault in particular, but the fallout from the completely idiotic new purchasing system is finally coming due. I do not always have the time to wait multiple days for a freaking purchase order.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Роберт » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:50 pm UTC

emceng wrote:I am so close to sending a rather heated email to our finance people. I know it isn't her fault in particular, but the fallout from the completely idiotic new purchasing system is finally coming due. I do not always have the time to wait multiple days for a freaking purchase order.

Rather than complain to the person you normally work with in finance, find someone higher up in the chain and explain to them how the changes are negatively impacting the business. If possible, involve someone higher up on your side as well.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby emceng » Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:02 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:
emceng wrote:I am so close to sending a rather heated email to our finance people. I know it isn't her fault in particular, but the fallout from the completely idiotic new purchasing system is finally coming due. I do not always have the time to wait multiple days for a freaking purchase order.

Rather than complain to the person you normally work with in finance, find someone higher up in the chain and explain to them how the changes are negatively impacting the business. If possible, involve someone higher up on your side as well.


Unfortunately that won't help. My company is owned by a german company and the overlords on high over there decided we needed the new system. From what I hear, even our finance people don't like it. I guess I should bring it up with my boss to be brought up to the VP, but the new system is never going away. Just like the new travel system. Thanks for getting rid of our travel agent and replacing it with an online system! I know it makes super sense to have engineers making at least $50k a year waste their time booking travel. But at least you saved money on a line item in a budget.
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. - CS Lewis


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