If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

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Edgar T Friendly
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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby Edgar T Friendly » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:35 am UTC

I knew somebody at university who once came into the common room when we were watching a documentary on dinosaurs, and demanded we turn it off.

Confused, I asked her why.

It seems that dinosaurs, my friends, not only never existed... but the myths surrounding them, the existence of bones, fossils and other 'evidence'... any hype,interest, study of or even fiction representing them (that means you Speilberg) is Evil.

Why?

Because the dinosaurs are the devils' lies and deceptions, trying to trick mankind into believing in a world that doesnt need God... and to do anything but refute them, and not only that but cast from your sight out every time you see them, is more or less devil worship.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, came from a first year anthropology and african studies university student who apart from being a bit intense was generally nice, well spoken, intelligent and decent...

I mean, how do you debate with someone like that, who no matter what evidence you provide will wave it off each and every time as the trickery of the devil? It is the ultimate response with a universal adapter, it works in every occasion where something that conflicts with what you were brought up to believe comes along to simply say the devil is trying to trick you.

I mean... damn, personally I liked Jurassic Park.

(forgive poor spelling, grammar and nonsensical speech... trying to multi task as I write this)
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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby parkaboy » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:45 pm UTC

wow. I don't even know what to say to that.

uhm. eat them? I mean, if you're a raptor. Which you aren't. And neither am I. Clearly. *hat*
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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby Iori_Yagami » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:05 pm UTC

That is a VERY interesting observation.
Words VS facts.
You can say anything in the most poetic way imaginable and it could still be lies. Fairy tales and legends sound good, but they are still fiction.
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I myself started seeing that not everything written in a book is true not so much time ago. A logic textbook was very helpful, coupled with my CS main education. But what about others? Are they in the dark? Are they just puppets in the hands of master BSers? How would they recognize truth whenever they see it? :?:
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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby Yakk » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:14 pm UTC

Edgar T Friendly wrote:I mean, how do you debate with someone like that, who no matter what evidence you provide will wave it off each and every time as the trickery of the devil? It is the ultimate response with a universal adapter, it works in every occasion where something that conflicts with what you were brought up to believe comes along to simply say the devil is trying to trick you.

That is the gnostic, or dualistic, heresy -- the idea that the Devil is in any sense the "equal" of God, and a worthy enemy to God.

Ie, attack it theologically. :-)
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Edgar T Friendly
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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby Edgar T Friendly » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:36 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:
Edgar T Friendly wrote:I mean, how do you debate with someone like that, who no matter what evidence you provide will wave it off each and every time as the trickery of the devil? It is the ultimate response with a universal adapter, it works in every occasion where something that conflicts with what you were brought up to believe comes along to simply say the devil is trying to trick you.

That is the gnostic, or dualistic, heresy -- the idea that the Devil is in any sense the "equal" of God, and a worthy enemy to God.

Ie, attack it theologically. :-)



No no, tried that one after a few beers (I did a philosophy degree with a specialisation in the Existence of God, stuff like this was what I longed to discuss as an athiest) and her response, the rudest she ever was... was that no, that wasnt the case... the devil isnt Gods' equal, because he only tricked the "lesser" being (I forget the term, it wasnt as blunt as inferior but it definately made it clear we weren't as good) and the pure ones, the saved, those that LOVED God, we unaffected by his lies.

I fully expect this girl to be picketting a funeral with Westboro Baptist church some day... and like I tried to say but didn't emphasise enough, she was a nice person, she was friendly and caring and would do anything for anyone... and she wasnt unintelligent, but whoever brainwashed her did a damn good job of it.
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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby Decker » Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:51 pm UTC

My high school history teacher used this argument on me. I like to think that I overcame a lot of adversity in growing up to be a halfway decent person.
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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby MarshyMarsh » Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:08 pm UTC

Right excuse me for being a bit dumb, what the hell are monkeys?

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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby Brooklynxman » Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:14 pm UTC

I agree with the more then one species of monkey arguement and had in fact worked that out when I was 5 or 6 as well. WTF is wrong with people.
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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby Xutar » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:28 pm UTC

parkaboy wrote:evolution is mostly luck: being in the right place at the right time.

One thing I'd like to add: it wasn't necessarily the "right" time, it was just THE time that turned out the way it did. There were probably thousands of valid times and this is just how it happened to occur. /anthropic principle

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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby Ati » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:54 pm UTC

I used to go to an art class with a bunch of really, really scary fundamentalist home-schooling types.

The teacher was one too, and you could kind of feel some of the xenophobia when she was teaching about other culture's art. Nothing explicit, but kind of a missionary's disdain. I also heard the topic argument about a dozen times, as well as a lot of non-verbal fallacies (I'm sure you know the type). When I tried to argue the age of the universe based on the speed of light, and distant bodies, I was mildly appalled to discover that they had no education in physics to speak of. In retrospect, this explained quite a lot.
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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby Chuff » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:12 am UTC

I read the title as "If we evolved from monkeys, why are we still monkeys?
I'm disappointed. :(
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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby CVSoul » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:38 am UTC

Fundamentalist religious folk like those you talk about annoy the hell out of me. As a Christian I'm perfectly fine with considering evolution to be a valid theory. (The bible DOES say that God made people after monkeys, so I see no problem with it.)

The trouble with religious people now is that they're too closed-minded. (Although that technically is true of most atheists as well.)
Both sides are too condescending of the other group. We should be able to get along better than we do, even if we disagree with each other. :evil:
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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:22 am UTC

I have seen this argument used seriously outside of the Internet, twice. But it was in Oklahoma, which as far as religious high-minded debate goes may not be much better.

Once by a youth pastor during a sermon. A smart, capable man who I actually respect a lot.
Once on a church sign.
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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby Enid Coleslaw » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:26 am UTC

no, no, you're all wrong. the worst bit is the smug look on their face, as if they believe they've stumped you and come up with an objection to your theory that you just absolutley hadn't thought of. it's a bit of a smirm, with a tiny bit of eyebrow raising thrown in there for a good mix.

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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby gibberishtwist » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:28 pm UTC

.
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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby seladore » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:08 pm UTC

Oh... oh god.

I've just seen my favourite all time critique of evolution. Nothing will ever beat this.
4.how come we cant speak monkey

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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby Chuff » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:57 pm UTC

Edgar T Friendly wrote:I mean, how do you debate with someone like that, who no matter what evidence you provide will wave it off each and every time as the trickery of the devil? It is the ultimate response with a universal adapter, it works in every occasion where something that conflicts with what you were brought up to believe comes along to simply say the devil is trying to trick you.

It's just like conspiracy theory, really. Any evidence you present is part of the conspiracy.
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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby singlefin » Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:51 pm UTC

seladore wrote:Oh... oh god.

I've just seen my favourite all time critique of evolution. Nothing will ever beat this.
4.how come we cant speak monkey


I'd like to refer you to some of the finer posts within the drnuk thread...

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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby Xutar » Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:32 am UTC

"The banana is the perfect food! God obviously designed it perfectly to fit in our hand, have nearly no seeds, peelable skin, and be high in essential minerals!"
>.>

Google image of "wild banana" before we domesticated it and genetically altered it to be perfect:
Spoiler:
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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby Arancaytar » Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:14 pm UTC

noparenthesis wrote:monkeys are fuckawesome.


...

You know the poor monkey can't give consent, right? :x
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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby sje46 » Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:28 pm UTC

Xutar wrote:"The banana is the perfect food! God obviously designed it perfectly to fit in our hand, have nearly no seeds, peelable skin, and be high in essential minerals!"
>.>

Google image of "wild banana" before we domesticated it and genetically altered it to be perfect:
Spoiler:
Image

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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby Iori_Yagami » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:36 am UTC

Brooklynxman wrote:I agree with the more then one species of monkey arguement and had in fact worked that out when I was 5 or 6 as well. WTF is wrong with people.


5-6? Why do I find that exceptionally hard to believe? At such age one still thinks that sparrows are nothing more than little kid pigeons, and pigeons themselves are simply young ravens... :?
They cannot defend themselves; they cannot run away. INSANITY is their only way of escape.

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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:05 pm UTC

Depends on the kid and, probably more importantly, their surroundings. Growing up around a lot of different animals and seeing animals at different points in their life will teach a young kid that there's gobs and gobs and gobs of animals out there.
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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:39 pm UTC

Enid Coleslaw wrote:no, no, you're all wrong. the worst bit is the smug look on their face, as if they believe they've stumped you and come up with an objection to your theory that you just absolutley hadn't thought of. it's a bit of a smirm, with a tiny bit of eyebrow raising thrown in there for a good mix.

No No, the WORST thing is having your boyfriend come up behind you while you're reading this very thread and hearing him say, "THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION!" to the thread title.

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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby Indon » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:48 pm UTC

seladore wrote:Oh... oh god.

I've just seen my favourite all time critique of evolution. Nothing will ever beat this.
4.how come we cant speak monkey


I disagree. If you doubt this is possible, how is it there are Pygmies and Dwarfs?
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Re: If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

Postby Iori_Yagami » Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:28 pm UTC

Meaux_Pas, I think you should be glad that at least the response was not 'ahh, whatever, evolution-shmevolution', which is the case in roughly most cases. :lol:
They cannot defend themselves; they cannot run away. INSANITY is their only way of escape.


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