The radical idea that women are people

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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby crowey » Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:24 am UTC

new guys at my MA clubs sometimes worry about hitting me (most of the time I'm the only girl training). Even after they've seen me warming up and know that I'm strong and fast and most of the time taller and heavier then them (seriously, I'm 6 foot and 13 stone :wink: ).

still when it comes to sparring they faff about and worry they'll upset me. Then I punch them in the face a few times and hold them on the floor until they tap out. After that they tend to fight back. :twisted:

Sometimes guys can get uncomfortable if they touch my boobs during grappling sessions, I don't really mind since I know it's accidental, though I can understand that they might think that I'll think it was on purpose or somehow pervey?

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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Rinsaikeru » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:42 am UTC

I don't do any martial arts but I do swing dance--and accidental gropes happen from time to time (and every once in a while there's some creep who actually does it on purpose). I can tell the difference and I won't ever get upset over an accidental one--it's a pretty energetic dance and if you accidentally grope me to keep us both from falling, or because I turned incorrectly and am facing the wrong way or whatever--I'm not going to get huffy about it.
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Re: Post yo' fess - Sponsored by the NBA

Postby Rehash » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:57 am UTC

Teapot wrote:
ClassholeInTraining wrote:I hate feminists.I'll admit when it comes to equal rights and stuff I'm fine, but when it get's to the "every womans a Godess" or " a guy telling a rude joke to someone near you counts as sexual harrasment" shit I just want to break that womans neck.

Feminists are people who want equal rights. What you are describing is not feminism. *Is holding back rage*



Bullshit.

Feminism, as it stands today, is the radical idea that all women should be giant children, provided for without condition. A class without responsibility or personal accountability. It wasn't me! It was the mans fault! It's not even hidden or tongue in cheek for the most part. On the back of planned parenthood pamphlets it lists one of the possible reasons you should consider an abortion, verbatim, "because he forced you." As if men are these primal creatures that lurk in the shadows awaiting the chance to pounce and impregnate the weak, powerless females. How pathetic.

While feminists claim to fight sexism, latent sexual comments like "a woman's touch" or "the fairer gender" still are Basically Decent. It's still common practice to reduce men to nothing more than beer drinking, football watching imbeciles who like to tinker with their little power-tools and toys, while the women must slave away to keep the men functional in all public media. Ever seen a commercial? Ever watched a sitcom? Hell, men still don't get paternity leave. It seems that the only social obligation of a father is a child support check. Because god knows men never get custody.

You go ahead an hold back that rage. You really should be keeping a eye on that idiocy though.

Edit; For those of you who want to claim that this isn't "feminism" - go to hell. It looks like a dog, it smells like a dog, hell it even calls itself a dog. Don't go calling it something else.

Edit 2; Perfect example is right above. We're all ok with the general notion that any action between a man and a female is by default done BY the male, and TO the female. Sexism is so etched into your thoughts that you're perfectly ok accepting all men as predators - even when they only exist hypothetically.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby michaelandjimi » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:13 am UTC

I am smiling so much as I respond to this, because, man, you are going to get slaughtered.
Quixotess wrote:Although to be perfectly honest, I'm still waiting for socal swimmer to carry out his threat to do a "line by line" refutation of everything said in the thread, which he promised would involve variations of "get back in the kitchen." This is when I like allies, so I can wait for the dudes to answer that one. Hee. Hee.
Here's someone for you in the meantime.


Rehash wrote:Feminism, as it stands today, is the radical idea that all women should be giant children, provided for without condition.
No. It isn't. Arguing the definition isn't going to work for me, as you can easily see you are wrong by looking in the dictionary.
Rehash wrote:On the back of planned parenthood pamphlets it lists one of the possible reasons you should consider an abortion, verbatim, "because he forced you."
This is just about the most ridiculous thing you said. If a man has forced you to have a child, which is another way of saying raped, then an abortion is a very good idea.
Rehash wrote:While feminists claim to fight sexism, latent sexual comments like "a woman's touch" or "the fairer gender" still are Basically Decent.
No more than "a man's job" or anything like that. And it's not surprising that those are still Basically Decent when people like you mean that feminism still hasn't had much of an effect.
Rehash wrote:It's still common practice to reduce men to nothing more than beer drinking, football watching imbeciles who like to tinker with their little power-tools and toys, while the women must slave away to keep the men functional in all public media.
I'm not sure what you are saying here. There are gender imbalances which need to be fought, so feminism is wrong? Conclusion does not follow premise.
Rehash wrote:Edit; For those of you who want to claim that this isn't "feminism" - go to hell. It looks like a dog, it smells like a dog, hell it even calls itself a dog. Don't go calling it something else.
How about you look at something other than the mass media's version of feminism, then.

Those are the basic reasons for why you are wrong. Others can go into more depth.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Rinsaikeru » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:20 am UTC

It seems to me that if women want to be treated equally to men in your scenario it must be the men who are the giant children here. Feminists are not pursing a preferential status--they are seeking full equality in the eyes of society, not just in law.

Living in a society that prevents you from doing things just due to your gender does make some things the fault of the society--NOT the fault of specific men.

Newsflash Rehash: Biologically the average female is both smaller and has less muscle mass than the average male...therefore yes males are completely physically capable of subduing, raping, or forcing women. This isn't to say that it can't happen in the other direction but: 1. It's rarer. 2. It won't result in pregnancy or the desire to abort. I am not suggesting that all men are rapists or should be thought of as such but neither will I allow you to go unchallenged in using something so pathetic as an argument..


If you had bothered reading through the discussion you'd be aware that we already delved into how caricatures of white males exist and do stereotype and how these are largely not disadvantageous to men in the same way cliche portrayals of oppressed groups are.

Feminism is a word that gets bandied about by lots of different groups of people--it also has a very specific and defined use that we are using in this thread and in any intelligent discourse on the matter. There has been explanations about this earlier in the thread.

I am not assuming that a guy is a predator, in fact in the case I used I was giving an example of when I'd let something that would usually indicate a physical assault slide due to context. It's sort of the opposite of what you suggest.

You really ought to do some reading on the subject before spouting useless drivel--or at least show the decency to read the thread and actually respond to it.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Rehash » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:28 am UTC

See, even in a thread about feminism the women will come out of the woodwork to call all men rapists.
"You're stronger! You MUST be a rapist! It's just biology"

I know I'm not going to reach any logical middle ground here with you, so I'm not even going to waste my time. Feminism has become, through actions of groups that title themselves as feminists, a front for anti-male sexism.

Edit; Ha, I almost Raaaaged for a second.

I'll give you this story then I must run to bed.

A friend of mine was married for 10 years. He and his wife did not have a very good marriage, and they got into arguments often. During one argument the man, who was a very retracted individual, went into the bathroom and locked the door to get some time to himself to think. The wife went banging on the door yelling at him to come out and proceeded to yell the phrase; "Mike*! Stop it!" over and over. The neighbors called the police.

Without checking for any evidence Mike was charged for domestic abuse against his wife. If only for the mere face that a woman was yelling "stop it" he was guilty.

When that can happen because feminists want to paint men as predators, since they biologically have more muscle, then the fight for sanity has already been lost. Feminists are sexists.


*Not his real name.
Last edited by Rehash on Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:33 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby schumi_girl » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:30 am UTC

Rehash.

No one said 'ALL MEN ARE RAPISTS.'

Just chill, yo.


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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Rehash » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:34 am UTC

schumi_girl wrote:Rehash.

No one said 'ALL MEN ARE RAPISTS.'

Just chill, yo.


"If he forced you"

It seems that someone has. So no, I won't chill. That's so offensive it makes me ill.

(Women get an entire movement to stop sexism, men are told "to chill" -- awesome!)

And even after that, someone defends the line, and expects to have any credit as a supporter of equality.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby michaelandjimi » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:39 am UTC

Hey, guys. Nobody tell him I'm a man. It'll be funny. A man-feminist. Who'd've thought?

Rehashed. Admitting that it is possible for a woman to get raped and then seek abortion to stop having the rapist's baby does not make all men rapists.
Rehash wrote:Women get an entire movement to stop sexism, men are told "to chill" -- awesome!
You are not representative of all men.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby clintonius » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:39 am UTC

Rehash wrote:That's so offensive it makes me ill.
You took the words out of my mouth!

You're officially the biggest douche ever to cross the fora. And shit on a stick -- go check out FaiD. We've got a thread there detailing some pretty goddamn big douches. But jesus god, gold medal for you.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Rehash » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:40 am UTC

I'm not even a man. :/

-- Yeah, as I said before, I'm not even going to try here. Onward young sexists!
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Rinsaikeru » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:42 am UTC

"If he forced you" does not indicate ALL MEN ARE RAPISTS it indicates that it is possible that that woman was raped. With the rape and sexual abuse statistics as high as they are it is enough of a possibility that planned parenthood included it on their print media. If you cannot make this distinction, I don't see the point in trying to have any sort of discussion with you.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby michaelandjimi » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:44 am UTC

Rehash wrote:I'm not even a man. :/

-- Yeah, as I said before, I'm not even going to try here. Onward young sexists!
Then why'd you get offended on behalf of all men? Like, right here:
schumi_girl wrote:Just chill, yo.
Rehash wrote:men are told "to chill" -- awesome!
She was talking to you...

Look, it's pretty obvious you are a troll. Quit it before someone makes you.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Rehash » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:46 am UTC

Rinsaikeru wrote:"If he forced you" does not indicate ALL MEN ARE RAPISTS it indicates that it is possible that that woman was raped. With the rape and sexual abuse statistics as high as they are it is enough of a possibility that planned parenthood included it on their print media. If you cannot make this distinction, I don't see the point in trying to have any sort of discussion with you.


If you don't understand why alluding to men as predators in a default text template is assumptions - I could say the same right back to you. By giving the generalized option that all planned parenthood clinics are a safe-haven for the implied masses of abused women you're perpetuating the myth that men are, by default, rapists. I'm not sure why you don't find that horridly offensive to put into print.

Edit; It would be the same as putting "because she cheated on me" as a default option on divorce papers.

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Last edited by Rehash on Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:47 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Gojoe » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:46 am UTC

No one said that all men are rapists. But it is a fact that women ARE smaller and have less muscle mass (on average... I know some females that can KICK my ass). That does not mean that all men are rapists, nor does it mean all strong men are rapists. Pointing to statistics allows you to draw your own conclusions.

FACT: There are more reported cases of rape done to females.
FACT: Males are generally built larger and stronger

Are these 2 facts related? It is up to you to draw the conclusion.

Also I on a regular basis fight the stereotype that all men love power tools, and play some type of sport with a ball, by simple existing (I am a scrawny computer nerd). I am sure most males on this site do. But this thread is about FEMINISM. So yes their is going to be a bit more defense for FEMINISM on this thread.

Also if a female rapes a male, emotionally the rape is just as brutal if it was the other way around.
Physically however, it worse if the males does the raping, as he is penetrating the female. Also, it could lead to pregnancy, which either leads to a painful operation, or a painful birth.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Rehash » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:49 am UTC

Gojoe wrote:No one said that all men are rapists. But it is a fact that women ARE smaller and have less muscle mass (on average... I know some females that can KICK my ass). That does not mean that all men are rapists, nor does it mean all strong men are rapists. Pointing to statistics allows you to draw your own conclusions.

FACT: There are more reported cases of rape done to females.
FACT: Males are generally built larger and stronger

Are these 2 facts related? It is up to you to draw the conclusion.

Also I on a regular basis fight the stereotype that all men love power tools, and play some type of sport with a ball, by simple existing (I am a scrawny computer nerd). I am sure most males on this site do. But this thread is about FEMINISM. So yes their is going to be a bit more defense for FEMINISM on this thread.

Also if a female rapes a male, emotionally the rape is just as brutal if it was the other way around.
Physically however, it worse if the males does the raping, as he is penetrating the female. Also, it could lead to pregnancy, which either leads to a painful operation, or a painful birth.


Statistics can be pushing to prove any point. Nearly 100% of child support check recipients are female. Does this mean that no woman has ever abandoned a child? Of course not. It's just an indicator of the social norm and how that norm is translated and observed. I highly doubt that men hurt women more than women hurt men - they just do it in differing methods.

And using terms like "painful birth/painful operation" is prejudicial. Clearly I'm not defending rape. I'm defending the inclusion of an entire gender into the presumption of a predator status because they have a higher muscle mass.

The exact group that precludes all men into categories, like predator/rapist/overlord, often title themselves as feminists.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby michaelandjimi » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:52 am UTC

Gojoe wrote:Also if a female rapes a male, emotionally the rape is just as brutal if it was the other way around.
Physically however, it worse if the males does the raping, as he is penetrating the female. Also, it could lead to pregnancy, which either leads to a painful operation, or a painful birth.
Dude. Don't go comparing how bad different rapes are. That is not somewhere you want to go.

Rehash wrote:By giving the generalized option that all planned parenthood clinics are a safe-haven for the implied masses of abused women you're perpetuating the myth that men are, by default, rapists.
Premise does not follow conlusion. Hell, premise doesn't even follow logic. Women who have gotten raped can get abortions in a clinic. It is a safe haven for them. One woman being raped does not make all men rapists. Now, listen here. Men are irrelevant in this case because it's pretty hard for men to get an abortion. How's that for sexist, I know!
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Re: Post yo' fess - Sponsored by the NBA

Postby TheAmazingRando » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:54 am UTC

Let's have a little quiz, shall we? I promise you it will be easy.
True or False: Rape happens.
True or False: Rape can lead to pregnancy.
True or False: Pregnancy due to rape is unwanted.
True or False: Most abortions are a way of dealing with unwanted pregnancy.

How, exactly, is acknowledging the fact that a woman may have been raped, especially considering that rape could easily be a strong motivation for abortion. It isn't making rape the default, it's making rape a possible motivation, because it is a possible motivation. Would you rather they avoid the subject entirely? Despite the fact that it happens? Despite the fact that, in many cases, it is directly related to abortion? How, exactly, does it imply that all men are rapists?

I'll answer that one for you: It isn't, unless you're coming at it expecting feminists to say that all men are rapists. And, if you buy into stupid hateful mischaracterizations of feminism, you might very well expect that. I know I did, and it took me a while to abandon what I expected feminists to say and to actually listen to them.

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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Rehash » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:56 am UTC

Rehash wrote:By giving the generalized option that all planned parenthood clinics are a safe-haven for the implied masses of abused women you're perpetuating the myth that men are, by default, rapists.
Premise does not follow conlusion. Hell, premise doesn't even follow logic. Women who have gotten raped can get abortions in a clinic. It is a safe haven for them. One woman being raped does not make all men rapists. Now, listen here. Men are irrelevant in this case because it's pretty hard for men to get an abortion. How's that for sexist, I know!


It's also a place where consenting parents, who are unable to raise a child (for whatever reason), go through a horrid choice where they choose to end a pregnancy. The male is contained in a male-only (or mixed) waiting room, while the female is ushered alone, into the medical rooms then into a female only recovery room. I know, I've been through that. I wanted nothing more than to have my partner in the room with me, but because all men are assumed to be rapists and abusers, policy forbids it. Even at my request.

Please don't tell me they don't label all men as such, I've seen it firsthand.

Last minute thought; (Ugh, maybe that's why I'm raging. Blah. I'm usually better about this crap. I'm kinda upset with myself at the moment.)
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby clintonius » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:58 am UTC

Rehash wrote:Statistics can be pushing to prove any point.
THEY'RE THEREFORE AUTOMATICALLY ALL WRONG!

I've already used the "go die in a fire" line tonight, and I'm loathe to abuse it. So how 'bout you either piss off or start using your brain, eh?

Also, "I've seen it firsthand" does not make "it" universally true, whatever it is. I'd be more apt to feel pity for your situation if you espoused a little more sympathy for the condition of others.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Rehash » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:59 am UTC

Clearly. I should have empathy for people who affiliate themselves with a political group that makes it agenda to oppress an entire gender. How selfish of me.

(On another note, you make me feel less bad. Rage on.)

Edit; Doesn't that make you laugh just a little? "GO DIE IN A FIRE, WHY DON'T YOU HAVE MORE EMPATHY?"
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby michaelandjimi » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:03 am UTC

Rehash wrote:Clearly. I should have empathy for people who affiliate themselves with a political group that makes it agenda to oppress an entire gender. How selfish of me.
No. You don't have to empathise with the feminists. Who incidentally aren't oppressing one gender, but are rather making it equal.

You should empathise with the rape victims. I will admit, however, that it was unfair that they did not allow your SO there on your request. But that does not make the system believe that all men are rapists.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Rehash » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:07 am UTC

michaelandjimi wrote:
Rehash wrote:Clearly. I should have empathy for people who affiliate themselves with a political group that makes it agenda to oppress an entire gender. How selfish of me.
No. You don't have to empathise with the feminists. Who incidentally aren't oppressing one gender, but are rather making it equal.

You should empathise with the rape victims. I will admit, however, that it was unfair that they did not allow your SO there on your request. But that does not make the system believe that all men are rapists.


Having the words "because he raped you" on a pamphlet is akin to putting any other prejudicial line. For example, one of the other options was "because the condom broke." Why not simply put "because I couldn't keep my legs shut."? Because the second one is presumptuous. To include rape as a default action is implying that it happens often, and therefore implying that a large portion of men are rapists.

Also, that's the entire debate. It should be obvious that I contend feminists are not equalists. Merely stating "no, you're wrong" isn't a valid argument. Feminists have documented cases of claiming female superiority.

Edit; Is this a typo, or am I missing something? "they did not allow your SO there on your request"
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby michaelandjimi » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:12 am UTC

Rehash wrote:Having the words "because he raped you" on a pamphlet is akin to putting any other prejudicial line. For example, one of the other options was "because the condom broke." Why not simply put "because I couldn't keep my legs shut."? Because the second one is presumptuous. To include rape as a default action is implying that it happens often, and therefore implying that a large portion of men are rapists.
No. Because your example made a value judgment - it's subjective whether or not someone 'couldn't keep their legs shut'. Being raped, however, is not subjective. And it's medically relevant - more chance of injury and STD's, at the very least. Also, rape happens deplorably often.

Rehash wrote:Edit; Is this a typo, or am I missing something? "they did not allow your SO there on your request"
Rehash wrote:I wanted nothing more than to have my partner in the room with me, but because all men are assumed to be rapists and abusers, policy forbids it. Even at my request.
Am I missing something? SO is an acronym for Significant Other, if that's your problem.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Rehash » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:14 am UTC

Ah, makes sense now.

But the reason he was not allowed with me is because, as it was outright said, that IS the default role of males - as assumed by PP clinics. They outright said it was because men are rapists.

Edited because I said that wrong.

They outright said that men were not allowed to be in the back, even on request, because it was assumed men would coerce women into requesting that partners would be allowed to join them, just so that the men could force abortions on unwilling women. To assume that of all men, and make a default policy barring all males from a clinic... That makes me so upset.
Last edited by Rehash on Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:20 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby kinigget » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:19 am UTC

rehash, please, you are just digging the hole deeper and deeper. Nothing you have written so far has made on lick of sense. I don't know if this is because you are currently angry, or if it' something else, but please, go away for a while, cool off, then come back here and maybe we can continue this argument rationally. I know what you're saying holds true for you personally, but even personal truths sometimes need to be challenged. I'm not trying to demean you in any way. I just want this thread to recover from the anger that has been running rampant on for the past several pages.

please consider what I have written.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Rehash » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:21 am UTC

kinigget wrote:rehash, please, you are just digging the hole deeper and deeper. Nothing you have written so far has made on lick of sense. I don't know if this is because you are currently angry, or if it' something else, but please, go away for a while, cool off, then come back here and maybe we can continue this argument rationally. I know what you're saying holds true for you personally, but even personal truths sometimes need to be challenged. I'm not trying to demean you in any way. I just want this thread to recover from the anger that has been running rampant on for the past several pages.

please consider what I have written.


Yeah, it's good advice. I'm gonna go sleep on this and post something coherent tomorrow.

Rehash, you've entered this thread with a great deal of misconceptions. I suggest you read through the Feminism 101 link posted previously, and that you take the time to consider what you're saying before you post it. This is always going to be a bit of a charged thread, but there's no need to be any more than necessary.

Thankyou.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Lolsaur » Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:25 am UTC

Rehash wrote:They outright said that men were not allowed to be in the back, even on request, because it was assumed men would coerce women into requesting that partners would be allowed to join them, just so that the men could force abortions on unwilling women. To assume that of all men, and make a default policy barring all males from a clinic... That makes me so upset.


It was wrong that your SO was not allowed in with you, but think of the women who are in this recovery room with you. Some of them may have been raped. Will they feel comfortable with a male presence, when they have just recovered from this type of operation due to a male? Possibly not, but at the same time, this blanket practice of "no men allowed beyond this point" will be to accommodate for these women. That is not feminism. That's the clinic's own policy, decided by them and not by a political group and in no way says that all men are rapists, it says that some women here will not be comfortable with a male presence.

Also, when a feminist goes from seeking equality to seeking female superiority, they are no longer a feminist. They become sexist in favour of women. The definition of "feminism", as has been posted many times previously, is "seeking social, legal and economic equality for women". It is not "women are better than men".

I also feel that you owe Teapot an apology for basically flaming her for something she said a while back, which had already been discussed.

Sorry for dragging up an already covered argument, everyone.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Yuri2356 » Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:18 pm UTC

Quixotess wrote: If you are afraid of causing *her* fear and discomfort, that I get, but it sounds like you're saying you would feel like you were sexually assaulting her. That's really weird and creepy to me.


Assault/Abuse/Harrasment is about impact, not intent. And I (and probably others) have the impression that at any given time you can descide that anything I do is a horrific crime that will get me placed on the special list reserved for the worst of all mankind. I will have no way to defend myself from this. I'm convicted the moment you open your mouth.

Naturally, having this concept hammered into my head makes interacting with you an unnerving concept at best, and it's the sort of thing that takes a bit more than a "Yes" and a safeword to get around.

It seems creepy to you, it's terror for me.

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Re: Post yo' fess - Sponsored by the NBA

Postby Monty40xi » Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:59 pm UTC

Rehash wrote:
Teapot wrote:
ClassholeInTraining wrote:I hate feminists.I'll admit when it comes to equal rights and stuff I'm fine, but when it get's to the "every womans a Godess" or " a guy telling a rude joke to someone near you counts as sexual harrasment" shit I just want to break that womans neck.

Feminists are people who want equal rights. What you are describing is not feminism. *Is holding back rage*



Bullshit.

You know what? I'm just going to skip over everything else. You come into a week-long discussion with 400+ posts, and you think a "bullshit" to something from the first page has any bearing on where the conversation is now? We're trying to actually discuss things. Don't be an ass for the sake of being an ass.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Pandercolour » Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:03 pm UTC

schumi_girl wrote:Rehash.

No one said 'ALL MEN ARE RAPISTS.'

Just chill, yo.

Well, I have, on occasion. But nobody listens to me so it works out well in the end I suppose.

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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:07 pm UTC

.. aren't you also not really allowed to post in Feminism threads and the like anymore too? Not saying the two are related, as I don't recall the details... just making an observation.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Pandercolour » Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:58 pm UTC

I have to word what I say carefully so overly sensitive crybabies don't take unnecessary offence.

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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Monty40xi » Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:08 pm UTC

Pandercolour wrote:I have to word what I say carefully so overly sensitive crybabies don't take unnecessary offence.

Hm. I see a "have to," and I see a long string of posts that indicate "never" would be a much more accurate statement.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Felstaff » Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:09 pm UTC

[Textual equivalent of raised eyebrow.]

ỗ.ō

[Something like that]

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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Rehash » Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:46 pm UTC

Meh, didn't help too much, but I'll try to word it better now that I've thought about it for a while. I think I can word it in two quick paragraphs, or I'll at least try.

Why I think Feminism is, by default, sexist. -

When you see that gender equality is an issue and you approach that issue with the single intent of helping a single gender you've done more to join the problem than you've done to fight it. By the mere fact that feminists claim to fight for the rights of women, and not rights period - that blanket across all genders - means that they fight for a sexist end. While the changes they make may be needed at times, and I admit they are, that doesn't change what type of instrument the movement is. The problem with having a singular purpose institution like this is that you have no balance. Feminists fight for the rights of women on topics like equal pay and maternity leave when the same issues are disregarded for men. I'm not saying that feminists are to blame for that. God no. But I am saying that their lack of equality in the application of social change is just as bad as the sexism they fight.

To top that off, Feminists often blame men for the social problems they encounter. That's what I was pointing towards when I said that feminists don't accept accountability for their own actions. Men didn't shape and change the social landscape without strong, and obvious roles played by women. Whatever sexism is latent in our world is partially due to the willingness, or even support, of the females involved. I know, that seems harsh. It is.

You can't approach the issue of the entire social structure regarding gender is broken, with let's all work to fix the issues with only one gender. By default the solution to sexism needs to be bi-gender.

--

Now, I do have to run to work so I won't be late. I do have a bit more to write, including some sourced support for my views that I think is imperative to include, but I just don't have the time to post it right now. I do apologize for my rage last night, it was out of line.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Pandercolour » Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:51 pm UTC

Rehash wrote:To top that off, Feminists often blame men for the social problems they encounter.

Yeah, I wonder why. :lol:

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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Rehash » Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:53 pm UTC

Pandercolour wrote:
Rehash wrote:To top that off, Feminists often blame men for the social problems they encounter.

Yeah, I wonder why. :lol:


You should.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Monty40xi » Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:57 pm UTC

Rehash, we've already spent far too much of the last 400 posts debating what things should be labelled with which -ism. I, for one, no longer care about what is sexism and what is feminism. I would much rather be talking about what can be done in real-world situations to make things better for everybody. Forget the debates over -isms and movements because it's become pretty clear that nothing will come of those debates. Let's talk about our own lives and our own opportunities to act, so that we can actually walk away with something more than raised blood pressure and new grudges.
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Re: Feminism (split from 'nfessions)

Postby Rehash » Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:59 pm UTC

Monty40xi wrote:Rehash, we've already spent far too much of the last 400 posts debating what things should be labelled with which -ism. I, for one, no longer care about what is sexism and what is feminism. I would much rather be talking about what can be done in real-world situations to make things better for everybody. Forget the debates over -isms and movements because it's become pretty clear that nothing will come of those debates. Let's talk about our own lives and our own opportunities to act, so that we can actually walk away with something more than raised blood pressure and new grudges.


Given the disposition I have, the reaction I'd take should be simple. Bi-gender application of all rights, without question.
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