Ethnicity of Russians

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Ethnicity of Russians

Postby Plamo » Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:46 am UTC

A classmate of mine brought up an interesting question, what does the population of Asian Russia look like?

Whenever you see photo's of Russia, it tends to be of white people in the European side of Russia...

I guess I have two guesses, the first is that the population would be asian looking, due to close proximity to areas like China and Korea (Natural Migration). The other is that there would be a larger white population, due to the movement of Russian Criminals from European Russia to Siberia and other such places.

Maybe it's a 50/50 split, though.
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby KingLoser » Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:49 am UTC

Think more Mongolian...
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby Mr. Beck » Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:44 am UTC

I have crossed the border between Mongolia and Russia.
On the Mongolian side, people appeared to me about 80% ethnic Mongolian, with the rest being Euro- Russian and mixed. On the North side of the border...all white. Classic Russian. Very small Asian population.
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby Snowdream » Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:12 am UTC

Does anyone else ever get into the debates if Russians should be called 'Asians' or 'Europeans?'

I always consider Russians of any decent to be 'Asian' only because of the fact that on the maps I use (And for the sake of simplicity) -- they live in Asia, ergo Asians. I know there's "Eurasia" but I'm quick to remind people that most dominant perspectives don't tie the two together yet.
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby Rinsaikeru » Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:26 am UTC

I've always thought that the division of Europe and Asia was rather arbitrary (or guided by exclusionary Europeans). All other continents make some sort of sense as a separate land mass.
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby Snowdream » Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:37 am UTC

Rinsaikeru wrote:I've always thought that the division of Europe and Asia was rather arbitrary (or guided by exclusionary Europeans). All other continents make some sort of sense as a separate land mass.


Try having a discussion in college as to how many continents there are... I say 7.

Then you get people who say... 8... or only 3... 4... 5... continents. Oi >.<
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby smw543 » Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:47 am UTC

It varies a lot depending on what part of "eastern Russia" you're talking about. Generally speaking, though, in areas near a border you'll find people who are of the ethnicity of the country the area borders, as well as "white" people who trace back to western Europe. I'm told that in most places people are still ethnically segregated in the sense that there isn't much in the way of intermarriage (but this info comes mainly from a friend of mine and from a professor, neither of which have been to Russia since the mid-90's.) There is some mixing of culture, however, such as on Sakhalin, where many ethnically Japanese people have Russian given names (although Sakhalin is a unique example, historically.)

This article has some interesting data.
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby KingLoser » Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:54 am UTC

Rinsaikeru wrote:I've always thought that the division of Europe and Asia was rather arbitrary (or guided by exclusionary Europeans). All other continents make some sort of sense as a separate land mass.

I think the divisions between Europe and Asia existed before the other seperate land masses were discovered. [citation needed]
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby b.roll » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:12 pm UTC

KingLoser wrote:I think the divisions between Europe and Asia existed before the other seperate land masses were discovered. [citation needed]


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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby Mother Superior » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:14 pm UTC

Snowdream wrote:Does anyone else ever get into the debates if Russians should be called 'Asians' or 'Europeans?'

No, not really. All I want is for British people to stop being silly and admit they're Europeans.
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:18 pm UTC

Plamo wrote:A classmate of mine brought up an interesting question, what does the population of Asian Russia look like?


Here you go. Several of those photographs are from the other side of the Ural Mountains.
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby 22/7 » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:21 pm UTC

Mother Superior wrote:
Snowdream wrote:Does anyone else ever get into the debates if Russians should be called 'Asians' or 'Europeans?'

No, not really. All I want is for British people to stop being silly and admit they're Europeans.
They don't do this already?
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby Mother Superior » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:24 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:
Mother Superior wrote:
Snowdream wrote:Does anyone else ever get into the debates if Russians should be called 'Asians' or 'Europeans?'

No, not really. All I want is for British people to stop being silly and admit they're Europeans.
They don't do this already?

A lot of them don't.
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby telcontar42 » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:33 pm UTC

Snowdream wrote:I always consider Russians of any decent to be 'Asian' only because of the fact that on the maps I use (And for the sake of simplicity) -- they live in Asia, ergo Asians. I know there's "Eurasia" but I'm quick to remind people that most dominant perspectives don't tie the two together yet.

The western part of Russia is in Europe and that's where the majority of Russians live. Therefore, Russians are usually Europeans.

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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby Monty40xi » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:36 pm UTC

Mother Superior wrote:
22/7 wrote:
Mother Superior wrote:
Snowdream wrote:Does anyone else ever get into the debates if Russians should be called 'Asians' or 'Europeans?'

No, not really. All I want is for British people to stop being silly and admit they're Europeans.
They don't do this already?

A lot of them don't.

What would they say is un-European about Britain?
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby EstLladon » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:44 pm UTC

It goes like this: there are ethnic groups that live together and have places where they live named after them. Some of them look pretty asian. Almost everybody else is european looking white guys and gals. They are rather uniformly spread throughout the country (except probably Caucaus).
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby Mother Superior » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:46 pm UTC

Monty40xi wrote:
Mother Superior wrote:
22/7 wrote:
Mother Superior wrote:
Snowdream wrote:Does anyone else ever get into the debates if Russians should be called 'Asians' or 'Europeans?'

No, not really. All I want is for British people to stop being silly and admit they're Europeans.
They don't do this already?

A lot of them don't.

What would they say is un-European about Britain?

I think it's mostly that little narrow band of water between them and mainland Europe. Also, I think they tend to think of Europe as mainly France.
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby EstLladon » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:48 pm UTC

Also, OP, you have wikipedia for questions like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby 22/7 » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:50 pm UTC

Mother Superior wrote:
Monty40xi wrote:
Mother Superior wrote:
22/7 wrote:
Mother Superior wrote:
Snowdream wrote:Does anyone else ever get into the debates if Russians should be called 'Asians' or 'Europeans?'
No, not really. All I want is for British people to stop being silly and admit they're Europeans.
They don't do this already?
A lot of them don't.
What would they say is un-European about Britain?
I think it's mostly that little narrow band of water between them and mainland Europe. Also, I think they tend to think of Europe as mainly France.
Ok, I have to admit, I only made this post to fix all those ridiculously unnecessary extra spaces.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby Monty40xi » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:53 pm UTC

Mother Superior wrote:I think it's mostly that little narrow band of water between them and mainland Europe. Also, I think they tend to think of Europe as mainly France.

Ahh. "We can't be part of Europe! It's full of French people!"

Or as Eddie Izzard said, "I'm not trying to be hard on the French. My ancestors way back were French. It's just they can be so, well, fuckin' French."
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby 22/7 » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:02 pm UTC

Oh how I love him...
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby cerbie » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:27 pm UTC

Mother Superior wrote:
Snowdream wrote:Does anyone else ever get into the debates if Russians should be called 'Asians' or 'Europeans?'

No, not really. All I want is for British people to stop being silly and admit they're Europeans.
See, that's why they can't. If they have to stop being silly, what are they worth to the rest of the world? :wink:

I've seen tons of Russians in photos that look more Mongol and Indian, some with such a mix that they could pass for Native American, or even north African. Maybe it's the specific material you're seeing? FI, books dealing with the government are going to be mostly European folk, since it's kind of headquartered on that side.
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby Indon » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:30 pm UTC

I'd always had the impression that Russia was almost as ethnically diverse as the US, especially when it was still the USSR.
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby Quadropus » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:34 pm UTC

Mother Superior wrote:
Monty40xi wrote:
Mother Superior wrote:
22/7 wrote:
Mother Superior wrote:
Snowdream wrote:Does anyone else ever get into the debates if Russians should be called 'Asians' or 'Europeans?'

No, not really. All I want is for British people to stop being silly and admit they're Europeans.
They don't do this already?

A lot of them don't.

What would they say is un-European about Britain?

I think it's mostly that little narrow band of water between them and mainland Europe. Also, I think they tend to think of Europe as mainly France.

Agreed. Even though we're part of the European Union, we are not part of the continent of Europe. However, I don't really think of myself as European either, just British.
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby Rinsaikeru » Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:57 pm UTC

I think it really depends on how you are evaluating: ethnicity and continentship.

Is it only a continent if those on it share some kind of ethnicity? Is a continent completely geographically determined? If so--I don't see any geographic distinction between Europe and Asia.

Also, Brits frequently keep themselves separate from Europeans. Ie. Travelling on the 'continent' not being in the EU &c.
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby Monty40xi » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:06 am UTC

Rinsaikeru wrote:Also, Brits frequently keep themselves separate from Europeans. Ie. Travelling on the 'continent' not being in the EU &c.
Anybody else see a similarity between how Brits look at Europe and how Americans look at, well, the entire rest of the planet? :)
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:26 am UTC

Snowdream wrote: I know there's "Eurasia" but I'm quick to remind people that most dominant perspectives don't tie the two together yet.


Eh? Of course that's one entity. We've always been at war with them.
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby steewi » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:27 am UTC

There was a lot of migration (both forced and voluntary) from western Russia into Siberia throughout the 20th century. As I understand it, these days, in the ex-Soviet central Asian republics there's a mixture of ethnic Russians as well as Tadzhiks, Uzbeks, Kirghiz, Kazakh, etc. The Russians tend to be more urban, the non-Russians are more rural, but still have a large urban presence. This also applies to Siberian Russia. Cities will have lots of Russians, but also minorities, who are often of Mongolic and Turkic descent, often with a dose of European and Chinese ancestry as well. The native Siberians tend towards the Mongolian ethnic features (darker yellowish skin, narrower eyes, rounder faces, less hirsute), while the larger Central Asian minorities look more like Turkic people (more olive skin, more hirsute). Both groups tend to have coarse, dark, straight hair, but as always, there are exceptions, variation and so on.

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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby lowbart » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:19 am UTC

Sir_Elderberry wrote:
Snowdream wrote: I know there's "Eurasia" but I'm quick to remind people that most dominant perspectives don't tie the two together yet.


Eh? Of course that's one entity. We've always been at war with them.


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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby Dibley » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:39 am UTC

When I was in Irkutsk (one of the largest cities in Siberia, near Lake Baikal and the Mongolian border and home to the largest aluminium smelter on earth and an aircraft factory) a few years ago, most everyone was white. I think that's partly because a large portion of the population is made up of people that got shipped to Siberia as political prisoners and their descendants.

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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby Rippy » Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:34 am UTC

Rinsaikeru wrote:Is it only a continent if those on it share some kind of ethnicity? Is a continent completely geographically determined? If so--I don't see any geographic distinction between Europe and Asia.

Also, Brits frequently keep themselves separate from Europeans. Ie. Travelling on the 'continent' not being in the EU &c.

I always thought it was just about the actual continental shelf and its boundaries. A Wikipedia search has taught me just how ambiguous the word "continent" is. It can be taken to mean a great deal of things.

Even if you do it by a purely geophysical perspective, there are the problems of certain islands (like Iceland and Madagascar) that, while not technically part of Europe's and Africa's respective continental shelves, are still considered to be part of those continents. And it just gets worse when you start trying to piece together the Australasia area.

I say Europe and and Asia are separate because that's how they are from a plate tectonics standpoint. Which gives us 7 continents. But if your definition of a continent is just a big land mass, you could call Eurasia one continent.

Aaaand this is all completely off-topic. I'm terribly sorry.

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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby Darkscull » Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:22 pm UTC

Plamo wrote:what does the population of Asian Russia look like?

Ask Sarah Palin.

She can see them from her house you know.



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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby Sorroth » Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:25 pm UTC

Rippy wrote:
Rinsaikeru wrote:I say Europe and and Asia are separate because that's how they are from a plate tectonics standpoint. Which gives us 7 continents. But if your definition of a continent is just a big land mass, you could call Eurasia one continent.


Actually, Europe and most of Asia all inhabit the same plate: The Eurasian plate. If you're dividing continents by plates, then Saudi Arabia and the surrounding regions are their own continent, as is India. Also, the far East of Russia is part of North America.

Well, that didn't work. So let's do it by contiguous area of land instead. But wait! If we do it like this, Europe, Asia and Africa are all one continent, as are the Americas (discounting the man-made Panama Canal). If we include islands to tie Japan and the UK, etc. down, then we have a couple of supercontinents and a whole bunch of islands.

As you can see, neither of these approaches really work. So they're more or less divided by tradition and potentially common partial consent.
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby Rippy » Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:41 pm UTC

Really, Europe and Asia are on the same plate? This is news to me.

*Checks Wikipedia*

...Yes. Yes they are. And apparently part of Eastern Russia is on the North American plate. (Source)

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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:49 am UTC

Rippy wrote:Really, Europe and Asia are on the same plate? This is news to me.

*Checks Wikipedia*

...Yes. Yes they are. And apparently part of Eastern Russia is on the North American plate. (Source)


See, now we need the Palin joke, but it's already been done once in this thread.
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Re: Ethnicity of Russians

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:09 pm UTC

Mother Superior wrote:
22/7 wrote:
Mother Superior wrote:
Snowdream wrote:Does anyone else ever get into the debates if Russians should be called 'Asians' or 'Europeans?'

No, not really. All I want is for British people to stop being silly and admit they're Europeans.
They don't do this already?

A lot of them don't.


God damn it, we live on a separate land mass, have a totally different judicial process, a rich heritage of winning and world domination, and you want us to do something that would associate ourselves with the French?
:P

Russians tend to be of a Slavonic origin, and thus Caucasian.

cerbie wrote:I've seen tons of Russians in photos that look more Mongol and Indian, some with such a mix that they could pass for Native American, or even north African. Maybe it's the specific material you're seeing? FI, books dealing with the government are going to be mostly European folk, since it's kind of headquartered on that side.


This tends to be in the Caucasus area, and the borders with the (former) satellite states.
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