Your view. How do YOU see the world?

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Sto Helit
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Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby Sto Helit » Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:44 pm UTC

Everyone I know has a different view of life, and a different way of navigating through that. Whats yours? Do you think things happen for a reason? Do you live in the moment? are you an optimist at heart with occasional lapses into pessimism? Everyone has a different view, and I think we ought to talk about them. Embrace them, and wonder aloud about the miracle that is individuality.
I for one am a cynical hopeless romantic (try that for a few days. I sigh while watching romances and then snort at my own hopelessness) who has optimistic moments and tries to live in the moment but has a tendency to over-calculate.
This has an impact on how I see life. It also has an impact on what you believe to be the meaning of life. I think that the answer to that question is what ever you decide it to be.
I'm not sure if this is a proper discussion because it's really just people stating an opinion, but I think this would be an interesting topic to talk about.
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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby wst » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:29 pm UTC

Give me a day or two to compose my thoughts on this. I will say that at one point I thought "Hey, what the fuck is with morals? Why don't people kill each other, it's so easy..." I also wonder why we let random people run so much of our lives. (Laziness is my reason)

I'll come up with a paragraph of sense later, but I'd like to leave with a thought for you - One day all the waves that make up your body might diffract in the same direction when you walk through a door. You might diffract! How totally awesome, and how totally unrepeatable :(

Umm, okay, been thinking more. So the whole 'leave you with a thought thing is irrelevant... anyways...

Life is like.. patterns. All the stuff people do is weird. Why do we go to school? Why do we punch each other when we see yellow cars? Why do we do stuff? Why do we accept climbing inside a metal box, being propelled to speeds well above a really fast run, without thinking 'Hang on a second, this is weird..."?
Shit's too illogical to try coming up with a world-view. Take life as it happens.
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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby Sto Helit » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:13 am UTC

wst wrote:Shit's too illogical to try coming up with a world-view. Take life as it happens.


Precisely! if we all took the same logical view, life would be boring! I get the feeling that I'm not making sense either, but what the hell!
That's a certain view of the world. Some poor, sad individuals never quite see the weirder things in life, or ask the really good questions like: "How can the same species that sent a rocket to the moon produce a show like 'Hannah Montana'?"
(I've always wondered)
It takes a certain view of the world to ask questions like that.
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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby Klapaucius » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:18 am UTC

Most of my ethics actually seem to be derived from The Selfish Gene, which is odd considering only I read the book a couple of months ago.
If something works, it will continue. If something doesn't, it won't. If something that doesn't work continues, which happens all the time, then we, as humans, have the privilege of being able to come up with solutions. For the policy concerning solutions, refer to the beginning of the paragraph.
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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:26 am UTC

Currently, through some sort of haze, this might be related to drinking rather strong cider.

In less literal terms, I see lots of little concepts, each one grouped into something bigger, this allows me to switch the scale of my "frame of reference" quite handily, it also means that I can get caught up over generalizing from the big picture or stuck obsessing over fine detail, almost at the same time.

I live in the moment because JIT delivery is more efficient, nothing to do with impulsivity and poor short term memory, Honest.

The important thing about the world is that as hard as you try to take it all seriously, that's no fun, and if things aren't fun then we shouldn't do them, fun>beer goggles>po faced seriousness>relativism with goatse as the comparator.
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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby drunken » Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:33 pm UTC

My world view is fat too complicated for a forum post, but I will try and some up some major parts of it.

-Ethics: I do not believe in a universal set of ethics. I believe that what each individual considers 'right' is right for them. This makes it difficult at first to decide what ones own ethics are. I find deciding my own set of ethics to b a very complicated and subtle process which is always ongoing. The main rule for my ethics is happiness, but rather than use the standard measures of happiness, which is how happy people think they are, I go for a more complicated approach. I imagine how happy I would be if I was in their situation. If you know all the facts this is actually meaningless, if I was in their exact situation I would be as happy as they are, but in calculating that in each case you get a very good sense of how much of that happiness is due to the personal choice to be happy/unhappy and how much is due to ethical factors. Once one has a feeling for this one can discount the personal choice and then get a personal feel for ethics. Using this method I have come to the conclusion that causing pain and suffering (including emotional) is bad, which was already obvious to msot but not all. I have also come to the conclusion that in 99.9999999% of cases honesty is the best policy, but I will get on to that later. I have also found that if you live in a relatively priviledged society the impact on peoples happiness of being freindly, kind and compassionate vs the opposites have a massive effect on peoples happiness. The magnitude of this affect means to me it is actually more effective to be friendly to someone than the majority of other morally good activities. Social interaction is very powerful.

-Behaviour: Taking everything from the ethics paragraph sums up a lot of my behaviour. But there are elements of behaviour that dont have any ethical value and are simply utilitarian. I think a lot about everything, this is not a choice, I can't help it. I basically just try and calculate the actions and behaviours that get me what I want (bearing in mind that a large part of what I want is explained in ethics.) Problems occur when I have to base behaviour on a system that is not fully understood. Take that of other people for example. In fact take females specifically, as I am a male and therefore understand them even less. With a poorly understood system you have to simply apply trial and error. When you see that something works you note it, and when it doesnt you note that too. Both of these ways result in rules, I make up rules of behaviour - Either simply freestanding based on trial and error, or analysed and based on the underlying mechanisms of the system. These rules grow and evolve and generally have exceptions and qualifiers. To give an idea of their nature I will give the example of honesty. This rule has relatively few exceptions and is based on an understanding of the mechanisms, it is also one of my most important ones.

Honesty: The rule basically goes: be as honest as possible at all times. The advantages of this are many. People who meet you sometimes hear the kind of honesty straight away if it comes up, and fot the more sceptical people any kind of extended social interaction or friendship eventually persuades everyone that knows me that I almost always tell the truth. This results in trust. Trust is incredibly useful, it would take too long to go into all the benefits here, but if you think long and hard about what it would be like if everyone you met and knew trusted you, you might get some idea. Secondly truth: I dont believe in an absolute truth of anything, similarly to ethics. I believe in a personal truth, this distorts honesty a little bit and requires that to be truely honest you muct not only tell your personal truth, but you must only tell the parts of your personal truth that you are relatively certain about. This has some strange rsults in that you begin to get a feel for truth in a very instinctual way. You grow to understand how people create and use their personal truth, and which truths are more common to more people. This means that you can smell bullshit a mile away, and the ability to judge the truth of what others say is almost as valuable as being trusted. It also gives you some predictive ability. Some chinese philosopher wrote that "those who constantly tell the truth become accustomed to seeing their words come to pass" if you understand the truth a bit better you come to understand peoples motivations and therefore their actions, you are also able to weigh other peoples claims that much better resulting in a better ability to predict the outcomes of situations. This goes one step further in that you become able to actually make something happen by saying it. I dont mean this in any kind of mystical way, I understand the mechanism reasonably well. I guess in summary I would point at how people use the phrase "my word" as in "I give you my word" or "my word is my bond". Being consistently honest gives your word(s) weight, and power.

-The search for truth: I love to learn, and I love to understand things. In this respect I am a very scientific thinker. Anyone here who has read any of my posts relating to anything scientific may wonder then why most of my opinions are totally unscientific, or even contrary to scientific dogma. The reason for this is that I don't use the scientific method. I use an different variation fo the same principle. This principle is best illustrated by the practise of buddhism, in which this principle takes a central role and upon which most of the practices of buddism are founded and evolved. The scientific method revolves around taking a hypothesis, then testing it, and then building on it and continually testing it. The other method (man there must be a word for it, I will call it the other method for now) does all this too. The main difference is that the scientific method revolves around univerals truths and proofs, so you have to prove something to everyone to prove it at all in science. This means you need repeatable experiments and decidable hypotheses. The other method however, does not require that you prove things to anyone but yourself. You are even discouraged from telling others what you believe unless they ask and genuinely want to know. In addition in my personal method, an undecidable hypothesis is automatically true, more on that below. Basically what this means is that if I have some sort of religious experience and see god, and I am convinced by it, then god is real and thats it. God may not be real for anyone else but me but that is not important. I dont need to convince anyone that god exists or even tell them that I believe it. On the other hand if I have tested the idea of god, found it to be useless and/or wrong, then I can believe in the nonexistence of such a being, and never need to prove that true to anyone or even tell them.

On undecidable hypotheses: This is important as most of the answers to all the biggest questions that people ask can only be answered with speculation that can never be proven. This is part of my search for truth but warrants its own pragraph because it is about the biggest questions. I believ ethat all truly undecideable hypotheses are automatically true. The reason I decided this was because they can all be true, and deciding that they are all true or all false is a lot simpler than trying to decide which are true given that they are undecideable. They can all be true becuase if they are undecideable then that means that no other fact could concievably contradict them, or prove them. This means that if they are all true then they shouldnt be able to contradict each other (there are exceptions to this as in opposite undecideable hypotheses but I wont go into those right now). This means it is possible to believe them all without contradiction. This is not merely a lazy workaround for the mysteries of life, it actually serves a purpose. The method goes like this: you collect all the undecideable hypotheses you encopunter, remember them carefully and label them as true in you mind. Whenever a philosophical question of the nature of the universe comes up, you refer to them, find the one(s) that is(are) most relevant, and base your view on it(them). This means you have answer to the most outlandish questions, which is fun at parties, but it also has another benefit. Sometimes in these conversations a contradiction in your view comes up. This is wonderful becuase it means one of your so called undecideable hypotheses is in fact decideable and leads to contradictions. Showing that what was thought to be undecideable is in fact decideable is a massive leap in philosophy. The nature of the contradiction itself and the hapotheses it affects can be studied and analysed and lead to new and interesting points of veiw.

Some examples of my favourite undecideable hypotheses:
There is no absolute truth or reality
We are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively
Reality is controlled purely by the sum of human belief
There is no causality (I love bringing this up in arguments, peoples reactions are hilarious)
New scientific discoveries only become true when they are thought up by someone (this one is great fun too)

Belief system: This is based on and inferrable from everything but I will briefly go through a few of my key beliefs.

+God: I believe in one god and also in an infinite number of gods. The one god is all omnipotent (in a logical sense not the ridiculous true ominipotence that philosophers use to disprove the christian god) and omniscient (in the same way). God loves me and looks after me and everything that happens even if I don't like it, is part of gods plan. This god can be described as all matter and energy in the universe. The infinite other gods are the gods of sets, as in set theory, for every possible set in set theory there is a god of that set. The set of sets is the one god. Sometimes I worship one or more gods, and sometimes I pray to them. Every action I do in life is a form of worship of at least one god. Some of these gods respond to worship and answer prayers with a greater than 50% effectiveness. For ecample when I pray to the god of my friend justin for a ciggarette, when I have none of my own, if that god is able it gives me one immmediately. When I pray to the god of XKCD forum users for opinions about my world view, I usually get a couple of those too.

+Magic: I aspire to be a wizard when I grow up. I am 25 but wizards are usually arouond 80 so I have a few apprentice years left. One day I will post a thread about maigc as I havent found one here. I will the go into more detail.

+People: I believe that all people have the same potential in life, there are no inherently bad or good people, no clever or stupid. I believe that each person chooses who they are.

+See also, list of favourite undecideable hypotheses

-Goals: My main goal in life is the future survival of mankind, and the elimination of all suffering. Sub goals are that I want to make at least one computer game, movie and book in my life. I also want to learn everything that I possibly can.

Please forgive the lack of punctuation and capitalisation, I just couldn(')t be bothered.
***This post is my own opinion and no claim is being made that it is in any way scientific nor intended to be construed as such by any reader***

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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby Jorpho » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:08 pm UTC

The world is chaos.

The history of humanity is the story of countless failed attempts to desperately impose some kind of order on this chaos, some of which may succeed for a while simply because we so desperately need to feel some kind of control that we are willing to shift our viewpoints such that it appears that we have some idea as to what is going on. We don't.

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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby Toeofdoom » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:15 pm UTC

Erm, it pretty much amounts to these few points.

1. Everything here is incredibly interesting if you just ask about it. This table here could have a fucking essay written on it... in more ways than one.

2. Nothing has an absolute value of importance. An example of this is say, yeah, global warming is pretty important, but if at some point in the future you had a choice between reversing global warming and preventing someone nuking the shit out of the earth until it was uninhabitable and irradiated, suddenly it doesnt seem so important, yes? Sure, reversing global warming would be great, but the point is that there is always a bigger problem.

3. Nothing is nessecarily right or true. If you can't say something without being prepared to say you were wrong later (if it seems proven you were) then don't say it. This largely applies to debating but also to people being embarrased about being wrong, which is really a huge waste of time.

4. As for ethics, it pretty much amounts to "Don't be a jerk" and centres around the effects on other people. Not going to go to far into that here, I'll make a distiction between "the world(/universe)" and "society". A point here is that "the world" is alot more important that society in my view.

As for the guy who posted before I finished typing, I suppose this seems similar, but I think I'm being a little more optimistic and constructive (or systematically/usefully deconstructive?)
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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby Noc » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:17 pm UTC

I see the world not like a truck that you put something on. I see the world as a series of tubes.
Have you given up?

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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby Quadropus » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:58 pm UTC

My world view....
Well.

The whole place is just a mixture of the predictable and the chaotic. Now that might sound a little strange, but think of it. Most of the time, you can predict how people are going to react to certain things, though sometimes people will just go completely off the rails when you least expect it.

The order in the world I think is just silly, we live in a society (strange point number one) where there is someone in charge (strange point number two). Now firstly, living in society, that is strange because we just cluster together for nothing less than the hell of it.
What I find really strange and somewhat annoying, is that there are people who are deemed worthy of telling everyone else what to do. This also relates to the laws we live by. "You can't drive faster than this" - Why?? Yes I know this makes for safer people, but as a rather firm believer in natural selection, thinks that fuck it - if you want to go faster at your own risk - go for it. Just don't complain when you crash and end up in hospital.
This fact that certain people are handed the power to control us (because lets be fair, they do) bothers me. They effectively rule by fear; "don't do this" "why not?" "we'll lock you up somewhere".
Admittedly there are numerous systems in place to make this fairer (the courts and whatnot).

As for morality and ethics, I am with Toeofdoom with the view of "Don't be a jerk". Makes sense, live by it.


In a nutshell:
    People in charge - boo.
    Don't be a jerk


Edit:
Thinking about this more, I have thought about how humanity is truly a virus on this earth.
We are also a race clinging on to old and failing technology, the internal combustion engine for example. Instead of being all high and mighty about managing to reduce emissions by 20% or however much. How about, instead develop a new system instead of trying to perfect a far from perfect system.

Also discussing the possibility of extraterrestrial life, I came to the conclusion that if there was an alien "invasion" on earth, what would humanity do? If governments got there first, they'd lie and cover it up.
The press? Cause national panic and turn the public against these unearthly visitors.

Whatever happened, they would just end up being used as test subjects. And not the kind that run on a treadmill for 10 minutes, they'd be strapped down and go under the knife. Instead, of trying to communicate with them and learn and benefit ourselves as a race. But of course, that is something beyond us as we will just continue to trash this planet and any others that we can get our hands on.
Last edited by Quadropus on Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:15 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby cerbie » Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:15 pm UTC

We all add to the total experience of our existence. To what end, I can't say. We keep ourselves closed off from each other, and the rest of the world. For how, I can't say. As such, it's not something brought up in a discussion involving who is correct or valid. "I feel this when I'm at peace," doesn't go over well like that :mrgreen:. But, it is how I must explain that I am a whole, but not the whole, in a visceral way. I see and feel my connections with the world, in ways empowering, frightening, inspiring, and humbling. Every harm to others in the name of of power is harming oneself, just not physically. Fear, wealth, ego inflation, and God are not going to solve our problems*. What good is money, power, and faith, if it means your grandchildren will have shitty air to breath, water to drink, food to eat, and people to [not] love? The quality of their lives will be the expression of our generation's worth.

I am of two, unreconciled, minds. My rational, word-thinking, make-an-algorithm side is a pessimist, ready to die and be done with it all--why wait it out, and die slowly? Fuck everyone who won't stop for a second and try to observe their own perceptions, actions, and what they want to do with life (other than watch NASCAR, have children, and teach those children to drink bad beer--adjust the dials to match your preferred sheeple stereotype). When not doing that, I'm contemplating hows and whys. My intuitive, spiritual, sensual, side hopes to be a little pulley in the machine, if we can just get a little better at operating in large groups. I'm happier when the latter side is taking over, but can't make heads or tails of what I feel, applied to the predictable relationships I use to communicate with others (sound, imagery, language). I'm always seeking a mental middle ground, and that is my filter of the world.

* If this makes you think, "but, Dio always solves my problems," I'll cut you some slack. Of course, you may substitute Ronnie James Dio with a scruffy toy poodle possessed by Frank Zappa's ghost. What was it with that man and poodles, anyway?
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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby segmentation fault » Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:27 pm UTC

Noc wrote:I see the world not like a truck that you put something on. I see the world as a series of tubes.


and people are LDL cholesterol.
people are like LDL cholesterol for the internet

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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby Klapaucius » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:42 am UTC

cerbie wrote:* If this makes you think, "but, Dio always solves my problems," I'll cut you some slack. Of course, you may substitute Ronnie James Dio with a scruffy toy poodle possessed by Frank Zappa's ghost. What was it with that man and poodles, anyway?


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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:46 am UTC

Noc wrote:I see the world not like a truck that you put something on. I see the world as a series of tubes.

My duty is simple: to monitor and maintain those tubes.
LE4dGOLEM wrote:your ability to tell things from things remains one of your skills.
Weeks wrote:Not only can you tell things from things, you can recognize when a thing is a thing

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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby Liet Kynes » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:39 am UTC

I see the world as a diaper sometimes it full of shit and sometimes it has a funny smell, but it usually doesn't stay that way for too long as long as someone notices.

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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:33 am UTC

The world is a pretty good place. And it's getting better all the time. We only have to want it to get better and be willing to work for it. I suggest you look up the death tolls of past wars, the diseases you don't have to deal with anymore, and the standard of living for medieval peasants if you doubt this. Ethically, I think Kantian, in general. If I want to take a moral course of action, I'd better be ready to advocate it for everyone. There's not a meaning to life--that's silly, there are six billion humans sitting around and you want them all to have the same goal? Your meaning is up to you. You have free will, or something that's good enough at approximating it that you may as well go along with its game. That means you're free. Period. Crazy, isn't it? Yet that means you have responsibilities. Freedom is, in reality, truly terrifying. You can choose, but you must choose. Scary stuff. I love it.
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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:34 am UTC

The world today seems absolutely crackers,
With nuclear bombs to blow us all sky high.
There's fools and idiots sitting on the trigger.
It's depressing and it's senseless, and that's why...
I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They only come up to your knees,
Yet they're always friendly, and they're ready to please.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
There's nine hundred million of them in the world today.
You'd better learn to like them; that's what I say.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They come from a long way overseas,
But they're cute and they're cuddly, and they're ready to please.

I like Chinese food.
The waiters never are rude.
Think of the many things they've done to impress.
There's Maoism, Taoism, I Ching, and Chess.

So I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
I like their tiny little trees,
Their Zen, their ping-pong, their yin, and yang-ese.

I like Chinese thought,
The wisdom that Confucious taught.
If Darwin is anything to shout about,
The Chinese will survive us all without any doubt.

So, I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They only come up to your knees,
Yet they're wise and they're witty, and they're ready to please.

All together.

Wo ai zhongguo ren.
Wo ai zhongguo ren.
Wo ai zhongguo ren.
Ni hao ma; ni hao ma; ni hao ma; zaijien!

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
Their food is guaranteed to please,
A fourteen, a seven, a nine, and lychees.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
I like their tiny little trees,
Their Zen, their ping-pong, their yin, and yang-ese.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They only come up to your knees...
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Weeks wrote:Not only can you tell things from things, you can recognize when a thing is a thing

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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby Quadropus » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:55 am UTC

I want Chinese food now....
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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby DrProfessorPhD » Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:45 am UTC

Simply put, the majority of people are stupid and nearly all people are delusional or misguided. However, those that aren't are very enjoyable to be with. Oh, and truth and those kinds of concepts are important in life, but laws are often arbitrary and so I take no respect to many of them. (True Neutral). Oh, and friends = good.
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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby Meowgan » Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:52 am UTC

I like making things and I like making things well. I'm a bit of an engineer in that way.

Otherwise, life sucks and then you die. You might as well enjoy it.
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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby Liet Kynes » Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:55 am UTC

Simply put, the majority of people are stupid and nearly all people are delusional or misguided. However, those that aren't are very enjoyable to be with. Oh, and truth and those kinds of concepts are important in life, but laws are often arbitrary and so I take no respect to many of them. (True Neutral). Oh, and friends = good.

I agree almost completely with that statement. True neutral FTW.

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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:21 am UTC

You're doing True Neutral wrong.
LE4dGOLEM wrote:your ability to tell things from things remains one of your skills.
Weeks wrote:Not only can you tell things from things, you can recognize when a thing is a thing

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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby bbctol » Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:28 am UTC

A lot of the weird ways in which society doesn't quite work today can be traced back to how it worked fine when we were cavemen. Cultural norms are largely determined by which moral values lead to a successful culture. America's problems stem from too much protection from the real world at a young age.
/weltanschauung

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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby theonlyjett » Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:34 am UTC

I honestly agree with drunken except for a couple points. Then I’ll add a couple of my own.

drunken wrote:On undecidable hypotheses: This is important as most of the answers to all the biggest questions that people ask can only be answered with speculation that can never be proven. This is part of my search for truth but warrants its own paragraph because it is about the biggest questions. I believe that all truly undecidable hypotheses are automatically true.
Rather than assume they're automatically true, I assume it may be true. In true QM fashion, if we cannot say that something is either true or false definitely, then in practice, it is neither. It's degree of likeliness changes with additional input, but it cannot be either definitely until it has been ruled out, replaced, or repeatably proven. There's more I could say about this, but, although the terminology differs, I'm fairly sure the thought process is otherwise virtually identical.

Although logic is typically used to rule out hypotheses, it’s only when it’s unmistakably illogical, which is rather rare. As an example, I believe that god knows everything, and can do anything, but I don’t feel that that necessarily rules out free will. Also, I believe that god is “everything and everyone,” is himself a person, and is also divine truth, the static point of which we are all relative to so to speak, even if, to some, existing simultaneously as all those things is considered impossible.

drunken wrote:There is no absolute truth or reality
This I don't believe. Rather, I believe that truth is in a single fixed position. We are all in different places relative to it. Say, if truth was in the middle of town, and your birth is starting from your house outside of town, some people travel northeast and others travel southwest. The problem is that we don't actually realize that we're all trying to get to the same spot. We only see others going in different directions, taking different roads, and different modes of transportation than we are, so we assume that we are all headed somewhere different. This is why it can appear that everybody has "their own truth." Indeed, some of us are not trying to go to town for whatever reason, but most of us are and hopefully we don't get lost or take too many detours before we run out of gas. There's more to this in the paragraph on the Truth and the Lie.

Most everything else I can understand in even believe to some degree, though probably not the same degree as you. And I probably don't use the same terminology. For instance, I use "god" to refer to the person of god or to "everything and everyone," but probably not Justin, although he is a part of what would be "god" by definition. To me, that would be like one finger referring to another finger as "body." It's at least mostly accurate, but "finger" is even more so. But even this is just my subjective terminology.

Truth and the Lie. This is how I describe a sort of yin yang thing in this reality. Basically, there's the Truth. It's a fixed point like I said that people try to find. I was going to say most people, but I don't actually believe that's true. I think most people get distracted. A few actively try to stay distracted as the truth can be somewhat uncomfortable, mostly cause nobody likes to be wrong and everybody likes to think that they somehow have it figured out already. Mostly pride I guess. But most people just plain get distracted. They learn one truth and then get distracted by other truths. For instance, someone may have a spiritual or emotional break thorough of sorts, only to begin thinking about things like theology and get distracted from how they should behave (love) with things like how others should behave. They may be right about how that other person should behave technically (though more than likely not), but their being "right" has actually become them being wrong. This is the Lie. It's subtle. It's 99.999% truth. You see it when people make all caps bolded emotional statements. Sure, they can often be right technically, but more often than not, they have made the situation worse. This, to me, is sin. It's my belief that when we don't act out of love for each other, we hurt the whole, bringing us as individuals, the other party, and us as a species down a notch. On another level, it's actions that perpetuate death. All things are theoretically neither good nor bad, but all actions have consequences. I believe we should strive to make those consequences the best we can make them. Truth leads to life and moral, spiritual, and physical evolution of mankind. The Lie is a cancer and leads, ultimately, to death.

Magic.
Wiki wrote:[Aleister] Crowley defined magick as "the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will.
This applies to mundane things like balancing your checkbook as well, though I suppose balancing your checkbook is hardly an easy task for some people, and it may be nothing short of magic when it happens. I certainly don’t believe everything he has written, there are some things which I can understand. For example:
Wiki wrote:One must find out for oneself, and make sure beyond doubt, who one is, what one is, why one is...Being thus conscious of the proper course to pursue, the next thing is to understand the conditions necessary to following it out. After that, one must eliminate from oneself every element alien or hostile to success, and develop those parts of oneself which are specially needed to control the aforesaid conditions.


On the context of the potentially paranormal, I believe in miracles. I’ve been personal witness to alleged healings myself. Of course there is always the possibility of the effects of “positive thinking,” magic, or some sort of spontaneous regeneration phenomena. The problem with the idea of the supernatural is that, there really can be no such thing. If it can happen, then it is natural. So yeah, I can explain it, but that doesn’t make it, to me anyways, not a miracle. I think the first real problem with miracles, or rather with most people who believe in them, is that they often seek miracles for answers to life issues rather than taking responsibility and/or accepting the challenge of life as they have it. For instance, if a man is blind, or can’t walk, I have heard many tell them that they should ask god for healing. Then, if they aren’t healed, they say it is because of their lack of faith or because of “sin” in their life. But they can’t say why it is. Perhaps those individuals are meant to be in the unique position to glean some wisdom which the rest of us may not get. That would, in fact, make them blessed, not cursed. The second real problem I have with miracles, or rather the people who receive them, is that many take receiving a miracle as affirmation that their theology is correct and that they are somehow “right” with god, when, really, all good fathers do things to make all their children happy. The sun shines, and the rain falls on us all. Biblically, god is by far more concerned with love and, to a lesser extent, faith (which is not the same thing as a belief) than theology.

There's more stuff. About how I'm not a big fan of religion even though I certainly consider myself a Christian. About how I believe that ever sense the introduction of the Lie, god has been trying to get us back on track by literally becoming flesh and showing us how to live. This isn't just Christianity. Most major religions teach this. It's just that no one agrees on which manifestation of god is the "real" one. Everyone wants to be right. But the most ironic thing to me, is that I believe that god is in all of us. Hindus teach that our spirit is identical to Brahma's (basically the primordial creator god of everything) but we have to learn to be like him again. To this end, Shiva transforms man's heart and prepares the way for the teaching of Vishnu who takes the forms of avatars (including Krishna and Buddha) to teach man how to live.

I have to stop typing now. Once I get started...

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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby Ian35 » Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:33 am UTC

Well in order to give my opinion on the world I think I first have to have a sense of what it all means, a sense of conviction that the world is one way or another. Unfortunately I don't have that sense of conviction. My heart wants to believe one thing, and my head another. I just go about life day to day behaving morally because its what I feel is right, and I'm constantly trying to figure out some way to justify it in a logical sense. I like to think that morality and ethics are good guidelines for how to act because they feel so right. But how do I know that I don't believe what I believe just because of the environment that I was raised in and the things I was taught? I like to think that some people are just innately good but thats the problem with life, how can you really know for sure? And more importantly, what does it all mean? When you die, do you stay dead or is there something else? I think these important questions need to be answered before a rationalization can be made.

By observing nature and some parts of humanity we seem to come to the conclusion that the ends justify the means and that people live or die simply because of their own capabilities and not because of any moral sense of right and wrong that drives life. A lion kills a zebra because he can, and the zebra dies not because he is bad and the lion is good but because of some circumstances which prevented him from escaping. I can see that kind of logic everywhere, things happen just because one organism has more power then another. When hitler killed so many jews most of us would agree it was not because of some divine will, it was because he had the power and the desire too. Or when a rapist sneaks into the bedroom of a young girl in the night and kidnaps and kills her, it wasn't because she deserved it but rather because he had the will and the ability. If the girls father had caught the rapist and killed him, then the rapist would have died instead of achieving his objective. So on some level it all seems to be cause and effect, with no discrimination toward anyone or anything. Religious people like to claim that either god is working in mysterious ways and that things like the holocaust happened for a reason we do not understand, or that its all some kind of a test and that by staying straight we will be rewarded in the afterlife. Maybe they are right, but is it a gamble that should really be made based on what we know of religion? Religion's been wrong about some pretty important things, such as the age of the earth. And in history religion does not cover all the intricacies of the planet that the men writing the holy books did not know, such as dinosaurs. Maybe religion is all just a delusion, but if so then what is life? I think many people stick to their religions because they simply do not know how to accept a life that does not have a clear purpose, when that is what they are used to.

But anyways, yeah..thats my view. Life is just a great big unknown and may be that way until the day we die, if we choose to reject the comforting illusion of absolute knowledge that science or religion gives us. The only thing you can do is follow your heart and act in ways that you feel is right. I personally believe in morality and ethics, and that there needs to be more respect for life in todays world.

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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby Quadropus » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:03 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Ian35 wrote:When hitler killed so many Jews....

Good ol' Godwin's law...


But I believe Ian35's point of cause and effect is a fine one indeed. If you think about it enough, pretty much everything can be reduced to cause and effect, though it sometimes may seem crudely simple.
Sometimes the cause can be blurred to the rest of society or just seemingly not there (mainly in the case of murders etc) but to them, it usually makes sense.

I believe I will live with just cause-effect in mind now...
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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby Account20151023 » Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:10 pm UTC

My view on the world: We're all running for our fucking lives, but have nowhere to run to.

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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby '; DROP DATABASE;-- » Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:48 am UTC

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to believe this is the real world, and not just a crude simulation. The more I look the more things I can see that this explains. Events are scripted and execute - doing mostly the same thing every time - based on where you are or what you do. People and/or traffic get in your way to keep you from breaking sequence. Even the textures are bilinear filtered.
poxic wrote:You suck. And simultaneously rock. I think you've invented a new state of being.

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Re: Your view. How do YOU see the world?

Postby Zak » Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:57 am UTC

Heylookitshiny
ooooOOOooo!!
*waggles eyebrows*


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