[SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby podbaydoor » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:33 pm UTC

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wednesday » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:20 pm UTC

So this is a question I've had for a few days, and been pondering quite a lot beforehand. What makes someone Bisexual, rather than Pansexual, or the other way around? If I'm correct, I identify as pan, rather than bi, which I believe covers "I'm attracted to people, rather than sex or gender" and includes "I would date trans, queer, straight, gay, basically anyone of any denomination." Please correct me if I'm wrong, this is basically to make sure I'm not offending people by identifying a certain way that encompasses the most traits. It is *so* I can identify as something, rather, so that if I *do* I won't offend.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby InfamousAnarchist » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:29 pm UTC

horisustar wrote:So this is a question I've had for a few days, and been pondering quite a lot beforehand. What makes someone Bisexual, rather than Pansexual, or the other way around? If I'm correct, I identify as pan, rather than bi, which I believe covers "I'm attracted to people, rather than sex or gender" and includes "I would date trans, queer, straight, gay, basically anyone of any denomination." Please correct me if I'm wrong, this is basically to make sure I'm not offending people by identifying a certain way that encompasses the most traits. It is *so* I can identify as something, rather, so that if I *do* I won't offend.

Yes, I believe you're right.
I identify as bisexual because I am more attracted to those who fall within the gender binary </bigoted-sounding but unfortunately true> than those who do not. People who are pansexual are attracted to people and personality, not sex or gender.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wednesday » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:22 pm UTC

Works for me, then. Thanks.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby animeHrmIne » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:26 pm UTC

Hello, thread, I am new, and I have a few things I'd like to talk about.

One, I'm sexually . . . not confused, but I think a definition would be interesting to know. I'm a fifteen year old girl with the sex drive of that exponentially breeding rabbit family (thus my nickname from seventh grade, rabitt), though I have this mental block that won't let have sex when I'm not in a relationship. plus the whole age thing. Anyway. I've recently thought that I'm a bit pansexual, but I don't know by how much. I've only ever had those thoughtless, hormone-induced stomach-fliping crushes on guys, but I kind of disregard that, because they're also on jerks that I would never go out with, and who would never go out with me. But. In the basic ways of attraction, the "Damn, I'd tap that" way mixed with the "this is an interesting person who I'd enjoy being in a relationship with" way, gender identity has never mattered to me. I like people for their minds, and I like people for their bodies, and sometimes that coincides, and gender never plays into that. Also (and this is probably what's screwing with me), I firmly believe that gender dentity shouldn't play a role in determining relationships (from my side). I would never not go out with someone just because of gender. Anyone know a word for that, besides "sexually confused straight-queer-pansexual"?

ETA: Another thing that's probably throwing me is that for some reason, I instinctivly think that being straight is "inferior" to being "anything else". I know that that's predjudiced, and I have no clue where that came from, but that's always my first reaction. I think a part of it is the school I attend, where being a gay male automatically makes you popular, almost regardless of merit.

But enough about pointless subjects (sexual fluidity FTW).

So, a few nights ago, I couldn't sleep, and of course I came up with a crazy idea, and I can't tell if it's good-crazy or stupid-crazy.

I think that the terms "sexuality" and "sexual attraction" shouldn't mean the same thing. I think that sexual attraction is that primal feeling of "I want to have sex with _____". I think that sexuality should be defined personally. So, a woman who is sexually attracted to both men and women, but will only sleep with women, would be considered homosexual. Or, a man that is attracted to men, but believes that sex should only occur to further the species, and will thus only sleep with women, should be allowed to call himself heterosexual.

Any thoughts on that matter? Am I crazy? Too introspective?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:34 pm UTC

horisustar wrote:So this is a question I've had for a few days, and been pondering quite a lot beforehand. What makes someone Bisexual, rather than Pansexual, or the other way around? If I'm correct, I identify as pan, rather than bi, which I believe covers "I'm attracted to people, rather than sex or gender" and includes "I would date trans, queer, straight, gay, basically anyone of any denomination." Please correct me if I'm wrong, this is basically to make sure I'm not offending people by identifying a certain way that encompasses the most traits. It is *so* I can identify as something, rather, so that if I *do* I won't offend.

A bisexual 30 years ago is a pansexual today.

By that I mean, the labels overlap a lot, and for the most part aren't really different. Mainly, the current generation uses Pan a lot more, as they are more aware of the gender binary. Previous generations were less aware of the binary, and as such played into it fine. I will agree there can be a difference if someone thinks about it (Anarchist is like other friends of mine, who have considered the label pan, then chose bi specifically because they're attracted to women and men, and not bigendered or genderqueer) but in my opinion (which is horribly biased, and anecdotal) it's just what they've been socialized to say.

I have a question to some of the people who identify as pan or bi. Specifically people who say "I'm attracted to the mind more than gender". Do you have a type? As someone who can identify physical body parts which I'm very attracted to, I have a hard time understanding the "I'm attracted to people regardless of gender". Mainly because gender is such a mental concept. If you see someone on the street, are you ever like "Woah, ze's hot!" This is something I've been wondering a lot (especially when I here the meme "I'm attracted to people, not genders..." I think part of my brain hears that and thinks "you're being haughtier than those who are attracted to one gender, as if it's bad to limit yourself to one gender..." I know it's bad but that's the first reaction I get). So yeah. Any thoughts?

*I hope I'm not doing to bisexuals what people do to trans people... please call me on it if I am...*
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Hyphe » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:53 pm UTC

Jessica wrote:By that I mean, the labels overlap a lot, and for the most part aren't really different

Wait what?

Ok, I must really have my definitions wrong. Surely there are more reasons to find someone attractive than just gender. I'm bi (in a bizarre still-not-quite-sure-what-label-I-want sort of way); I was under the impression that meant 'someone who finds sexual characteristics of both/all genders attractive'. Doesn't 'pansexual' simply mean 'not caring what someone looks like'? I'm not pan - I might turn people down because of weight, or height, or age, or skin colour, or smell. I don't care about gender, though, which is why I say 'bi'. Am I wrong? I don't think 'bi' means 'there are only two genders!', it's just an outdated word - 'pansexual' does not imply the same things at all.

All this simply firms me in my opinion that we really all just ought to be saying 'I like pretty people!' and leaving it at that. :|

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:56 pm UTC

I don't know...

I shall endeavor to stop trying to define things and simply allow people to say what they want... It just makes me look foolish and stupid.

Sorry everyone, about being insulting.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Hyphe » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:58 pm UTC

Jessica wrote:I don't know...

I shall endeavor to stop trying to define things and simply allow people to say what they want... It just makes me look foolish and stupid.

Sorry everyone, about being insulting.

Noooo, I didn't mean that. You weren't insulting at all, I am simply confused. As is the norm, in my case. :oops:

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby blue_eyedspacemonkey » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:06 pm UTC

Jessica wrote:I have a question to some of the people who identify as pan or bi. Specifically people who say "I'm attracted to the mind more than gender". Do you have a type? As someone who can identify physical body parts which I'm very attracted to, I have a hard time understanding the "I'm attracted to people regardless of gender". Mainly because gender is such a mental concept. If you see someone on the street, are you ever like "Woah, ze's hot!" This is something I've been wondering a lot (especially when I here the meme "I'm attracted to people, not genders..." I think part of my brain hears that and thinks "you're being haughtier than those who are attracted to one gender, as if it's bad to limit yourself to one gender..." I know it's bad but that's the first reaction I get). So yeah. Any thoughts?

*I hope I'm not doing to bisexuals what people do to trans people... please call me on it if I am...*
I am one of those people who falls for people, anyone, regardless of gender. I fall for someone's personality first-I wasn't physically attracted to either of my partners when I first met them, but, one I got to know them, I found myself mentally and then physically attracted to them. My first relationship was with a girl, I'm currently with a guy. I don't have a type, physically, the only thing the same in both my partners are they both have brown eyes.
I understand what you mean by gender being such a mental concept. I don't notice girls as being attractive as often as guys on the surface (the 'ze's hot' scenario is more likely to happen with guys than girls). However, when it comes to deeper feelings, I can be equally attracted to either, providing the mental/personal connection is there.

I don't think I'm explaining myself well.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Virtual_Aardvark » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:43 pm UTC

I identify as lesbian in public because it's easier but in reality I'm more queer with a strong preference for girls. Depending on the situation my sexuality ends up all over the map (the kinsey scale wouldn't know what the hell to do with me). This is complicated by the fact that I'll have sex with anyone when I'm manic.
My point is that you don't need to fit neatly into your sexuality. Yes, I am lesbian, but is with a lot of fluidity and wiggle room. I don't really worry about it anymore. I do what I do and I'm attracted to who I'm attracted to. The only solid line is sex with boys; if I sleep with a dude while I'm manic I'll feel like shit for quite a while when I come down.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Enuja » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:48 pm UTC

Jessica, I think your clarification about bisexuality is really relevant and totally made sense to me. If people are attracted to male gendered and female gendered people, they should include transsexuals as people of one gender or the other, because transsexuals are people who clearly and specifically have a gender of choice. However, if people don't like binary gender, don't care if a person's gender changes from day to day or isn't a conventional gender at all, I can see how distinguishing pansexual from bisexual makes sense. But it's really useful and enlightening to read from you that someone saying they are pansexual as opposed to bisexual because they like males, females, FtMs and MtFs bothers you when you hear it, because an FtM is a male and MtF is a female.

Of course, we'll all use words how we want to, and figure out what they mean later. ;-)

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby animeHrmIne » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:25 pm UTC

Okay, so would someone still be pansexual if physical attraction was important for relationships, but the gender identity of the person didn't effect physical attraction? Isn't there a distinction between "someone who is attracted to people, not gender" and "someone who is attracted to any/all genders"? Would one of those be omnisexual, one be pansexual?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wednesday » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:33 pm UTC

All of these words confuse me, honestly. I think it's better just to say " I like everyone. Physical and mental aspects, I have preferences, I have things I will not tolerate. I like people. I'm attracted to people. Not gender, not sex, not identity. People."

I'm sure I butchered that....
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Shivahn » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:18 am UTC

Heh, it looks like labels break down once more. They're useful for "I identify as xxx", but clearly clarification is needed sometimes. Which is always nice, I think... the little nuances that differentiate us from general labels add personality, if that makes sense.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby H.E.L.e.N. » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:01 am UTC

animeHrmIne wrote:Isn't there a distinction between "someone who is attracted to people, not gender" and "someone who is attracted to any/all genders"? Would one of those be omnisexual, one be pansexual?


I think 'pansexual' is a much better fit for "any, all." The prefix "pan" (and I don't have my dictionary on me), is "across" or "encompassing."

I don't like saying "people-not-gender" when someone means "(my possibility-pool is) any/all genders." I think the latter is far more descriptive. I think "gender wouldn't be a dealbreaker" is different than "gender doesn't matter."

The "people, not gender" description can be problematic because it suggests that people who *are* attracted to one/some gender(s) are just being superficial. And sexuality is complex and weird.

EDIT: I was ignoring "omni" because I've never heard it used in a serious context.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby eternal luna » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:23 am UTC

I've always seen "pan" and "omni" used completely interchangeably. :? Of course, I've met people who were adamant that "omnisexual" meant being sexually attracted to everything- objects and people and animals, but I wouldn't trust them on anything, much less sexual labels.

Something I need to get out of my system: I identify as pansexual and, despite working on this, I still feel a tingle of guilt when holding hands or kissing a boy in public. Partially because I can't let go of the notion that I'm contributing to heteronormativity in a big way, and partially because of how much easier it is to be affectionate in a way that's overtly sexual to others compared to when I'm with a girl. Eugh- I'm becoming heterosexual out of convenience.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby doogly » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:33 am UTC

eternal luna wrote:I've always seen "pan" and "omni" used completely interchangeably. :?

Essentially they are the same thing, but one is in Greek and one in Latin.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:17 pm UTC

H.E.L.e.N. wrote:The "people, not gender" description can be problematic because it suggests that people who *are* attracted to one/some gender(s) are just being superficial. And sexuality is complex and weird.
I think that's what I was trying to say before. thank you helen for saying things :)

Luna: you shouldn't feel bad. Really. Kissing a boy (or in general, a member of the opposite sex) you like is awesome! I sometimes with more people did it. I just also wish it was more acceptable for homo relationships to be as open.

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http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/ ... -game.html
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby videogamesizzle » Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:13 am UTC

Jessica wrote:http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/ ... -game.html
ARGH
AHHH *punches things* What is wrong with people?

So it's coming up to vacation time, when I'll get to maybe talk with my uncle/s about the whole sexuality thing. I was feeling really confident about it back when I thought about it, but I've been feeling weird about it for a while. Maybe it's just because we leave on Friday. I don't know. It's like I go through weird phases of knowing where I am or being completely lost. Ghaaaa. Actually, my uncles are coming over here tomorrow, and we'll be going out to dinner with them. So the pressure's on. I know I have to talk to at least one of them. I'm pretty sure if I don't talk to someone in real life, I'll explode.

Dammit. TL;DR:
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Amarantha » Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:05 am UTC

For those near Australian capital cities (except Darwin) this weekend, there's a National Day of Action for same-sex marriage. There will be protests, mass illegal weddings &c. I hope to get to the Melbourne one depending on study/travel commitments. Maybe the Canberra one if I'm there.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby steewi » Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:48 am UTC

Amarantha wrote:For those near Australian capital cities (except Darwin) this weekend, there's a National Day of Action for same-sex marriage. There will be protests, mass illegal weddings &c. I hope to get to the Melbourne one depending on study/travel commitments. Maybe the Canberra one if I'm there.

You're in Canberra soon? Cool!

As much as I care about it, I'm too scared to go. Canberra is a very small town. Plus, coming dressed as a pirate would be a little odd, as I'm going to be dressed so for something about the same time.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Maelstrom. » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:05 am UTC

Amarantha wrote:For those near Australian capital cities (except Darwin) this weekend, there's a National Day of Action for same-sex marriage. There will be protests, mass illegal weddings &c. I hope to get to the Melbourne one depending on study/travel commitments. Maybe the Canberra one if I'm there.

Ohhh, sounds like fun. I shall try to make it to the one in Hobart. I dont think there is a huge LGTB scene down here, but hopefully someone else turns up... Any one here from Hobart want to join me? Thanks for the heads up Amarantha

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:55 pm UTC

That sounds awesome guys! Go Australia! :D
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Amarantha » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:49 am UTC

steewi wrote:You're in Canberra soon? Cool!
Either this weekend or a fortnight later, depending on the timing of a class (should find out tonight). Whether I can actually make it to the Canberra protest depends on the plans of the family members I'm visiting there. If I'm in Melb and don't have class I won't have much excuse.
steewi wrote:As much as I care about it, I'm too scared to go. Canberra is a very small town.
I hadn't even thought about the problem of being seen there by people you'd rather not be seen by. How's that for some straight privilege :oops: That makes it even more important for those of us who can be seen to get there and make up the numbers.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Virtual_Aardvark » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:33 pm UTC

I'm not sure if anyones seen this. Just thought ya'll would enjoy it.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Zohar » Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:02 am UTC

Last night a person dressed all in black went into an LGBT support meeting for teenagers in Tel Aviv and started shooting people. Two were killed, 10 injured, some very badly. It's not officially a hate crime yet, but the police still recommended to close all LGBT pubs and clubs. This is just disgusting. I can't believe something like this happens here. They haven't caught the guy yet. No one I know was hurt, it seems (I don't know anyone in that age group) but I could hardly sleep anyway.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:33 am UTC

I'm glad I'm not sleeping tonight, because I sure as hell couldn't now.

God. That's horrible. Fucking terrible.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Zohar » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:36 am UTC

At least, the more time passes, the more people seem to be genuinely upset about this, including outside the LGBT community. It's encouraging. But I still can't believe it. Some of the injured kids in the hospitals don't have families visiting them. Some haven't come out. Hundreds of teenagers will be afraid of it now. Tel Aviv has always seemed so safe and open.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:38 am UTC

Everywhere seems safe until it stops being safe.

People wonder why I'm terrified to go out at night alone...
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Delalyra » Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:45 pm UTC

That's terrible. :( I'm so sorry, Zohar.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby steewi » Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:35 am UTC

Zohar wrote:At least, the more time passes, the more people seem to be genuinely upset about this, including outside the LGBT community. It's encouraging. But I still can't believe it. Some of the injured kids in the hospitals don't have families visiting them. Some haven't come out. Hundreds of teenagers will be afraid of it now. Tel Aviv has always seemed so safe and open.

Gosh, I hadn't even considered that part of the problem. That just made it even sicker to me. Now I'm just feeling hurt for them.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby H.E.L.e.N. » Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:26 pm UTC

Saw a really interesting documentary recently about a gay bar in Jerusalem. Would recommend.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Zohar » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:26 am UTC

I'll save the link and watch it later. Thanks.

Saturday there was a pretty big gay support rally in Tel Aviv. About 70,000 people showed up. It was encouraging. I haven't been in such a social (or political or anything similar) event in almost 15 years, but I thought it was important to go. I think I'll try to volunteer somewhere. This case has made me think some things. I'll see how it goes.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:26 pm UTC

I found this to be quite cute!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV26OMSb_VQ
no nudity, but lots of swearing.
doogly wrote:On a scale of Mr Rogers to Fascism, how mean do you think we're being?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Zohar » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:30 pm UTC

Hah! Yes, I love that song. It's a bit popular here now. Every time I hear it I smile a bit inside. I haven't seen the video though, so I'll save the link for later.
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SecondTalon: "Still better looking than Jesus."

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Osha » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:51 am UTC

That was one awesome video. It cheered me up great.

In other news: I'm coming out at work on monday :O
Super nervous! But it's a good kind of nervous. And the diety of workplace transision must be looking out for me as that's the exact day we switch from our old unisex uniforms to our new gendered ones. Hot dog!

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Zohar » Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:03 am UTC

Good luck Osha!
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Amarantha » Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:16 am UTC

Hope it goes well :)

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:08 pm UTC

good luck osha!! :D
I hope it goes well.
doogly wrote:On a scale of Mr Rogers to Fascism, how mean do you think we're being?
Belial wrote:My goal is to be the best brain infection any of you have ever had.


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