[SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:48 pm UTC

natashatasha wrote:And then I read further down that they're going to make me do that fucking stupid 'real life experience' for three months before starting HRT. It won't be anything like experiencing life in the correct 'gender role' (one of these days, someone will have to tell me what the 'gender role' for a woman is; I don't want to get out of my proper place after all >.>), it will be like being a man in a dress, because that's what everyone else will see me as

This sucks so much.

Are you required to wear skirts/dresses? Or could you get away with a more ambiguous presentation? Like, painting your finger nails, but not red? Leggings? Pink or purple T-shirt? Something that most people will read as "gay man" but you could argue as "female look" to the therapist? Would that feel less terrible?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Brace » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:24 am UTC

My new exhaust for my motorcycle arrived today. That's everything except a 37t rear sprocket all here, ready for me to install as soon as the snow melts. Looking forward to seeing whatever performance gains come out of it.

Really depressed in general. I am doing fine in calculus and accounting but horribly in chemistry. It is just information overload. Injections haven't been working as expected. I'm waiting on an order of lidocaine so I can do an orchiectomy, if it doesn't arrive this week I will probably just get very drunk and do it. I bought new clothes but when I put them on and looked in the mirror it took all of my discipline not to shoot myself. Feeling really bad about politics and about all of the years I lost to various nonsense, and about the permanent and potentially permanent implications of that. Nothing new or special I know. I seem to be getting pretty decent at doing math while drunk. Probably I will graduate and find out I can't do it sober.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby dii » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:23 am UTC

Please don't perform surgery on yourself (or anyone else) while intoxicated. All kinds of things can go wrong...

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:36 pm UTC

*hugs Brace*

Don't even do surgeries on yourself or others when you're not intoxicated, please, for the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Especially in the case of an orchi you probably want to preserve the skin as it's needed for the inside of the neovagina, if I understand the process correctly. That would probably not work out if you do it yourself without medical training. Either way you are likely to end up in the emergency room - that can be costly, too.

What does getting an orchi cost you? I read 2000-3000$ but not sure if that is current and if it varies a lot by area. There may be ways to get funding. Some US trans women mentioned further up in this thread that they applied for funding even for SRS and got some money, so maybe there are similar ways also for an orchi. You can also set up a collection on one of these donation collection sites. I have seen lots of trans men collect money for top surgery and at least one trans woman collect money for facial hair removal and it worked okayish to great for different people.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Brace » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:10 am UTC

I'm doing it via burdizzo which doesn't require any penetration of the skin except for the lidocaine needle. It does leave scars. According to Marci Bowers and others, orchiectomy scars aren't bad enough to prevent quality SRS results though. Mostly it's just the lack of testosterone leading to contraction, and anyway, donor tissue is an option by which to bypass that issue. I applied for care credit recently in the hopes I could secure $30k or so for FFS. I was given a line of $5.5k. That would cover an orchiectomy, but the thought of being in debt to pay for a stopgap procedure is insanely depressing and largely humiliating, I would rather just do it myself. The prospect of acquiring a line of credit sufficient to pay for a reasonable number of procedures is just too low. Plus there's the fact that any surgery at all at this point is unlikely to do anything, and DIY is just inherently more interesting. I don't want to pay $60k just to get an exact measure of the distance between what I can and should be.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby flickering_candle » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:27 pm UTC

On the whole obtaining funding for procedures note, I noticed a story on The Guardian this morning about a trans man whose fraternity helped him raise money for his mastectomy. They even used correct pronouns throughout the article.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Brace » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:05 am UTC

The lidocaine didn't work, or didn't seem to. Might try again later, not sure.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Becani » Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:42 am UTC

Not that I can do anything to stop you Brace, but I hope you don't die, or get gangrene and lose a limb or two. That would suck for everyone.


Boy just linked me to this beautiful video, aptly named Gay Pirates! (It's music, very pretty and sweet, but I must add trigger warning for references to violence and rape.)

Also, I had some blood drawn for an HIV test done the other day. I don't think I have it, (and the odds of that are very slim) but it's always a good idea to get tested. I would recommend that everyone who is sexually active get tested. I can't hurt, (unless you're scared of needles and they hurt a lot) and it can help us stop this virus from spreading and keep our partners and loved ones safe and healthy. (okay, done with the PSA :P )

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby XJ_0 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:23 am UTC

Re: HIV testing: They also said that they can do it by a less invasive mouth swab. :P

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Enuja » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:06 pm UTC

I'm pretty sure it was in this thread that people talked about non-gendered Facebook options. I just saw a link on Facebook that confirms that you can't choose not to have a gender on Facebook anymore, with a link to a script so that you can! I don't know the person who wrote the blog post, nor the person who wrote the code, so I can't vouch for it, but, yeah!

The blog post.
The script.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby rath358 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:56 am UTC

Is anyone here well-versed in non-binary gender identities or have links to good resources on the subject? I have been doing a bit more self-reflection...

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jaramillo » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:33 am UTC

I like the idea of this thread. I hope it goes well. :D

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby scienceroboticspunk » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:49 am UTC

I am not really versed in it but I identify as gender-fluid and I have mostly learned about things through wikipedia and google research. I can probably only say much about personal experiences and the hardest thing I ever felt having to deal with was shopping(which really wasnt that hard, just me being nervous)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby NecklaceOfShadow » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:41 am UTC

rath358 wrote:Is anyone here well-versed in non-binary gender identities or have links to good resources on the subject? I have been doing a bit more self-reflection...


Ummm... I have a non-binary identity, but I don't have any links. Does that count? Feel free to PM me on the fora/IRC. (Emilia on foonetic, terra-and-luna on freenode)
Significantly less weird than I used to be. Still pretty weird.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Carlington » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:57 am UTC

I am completely non-binary in gender, but most of the people I talk to daily are genderfluid to some extent, so you can PM me too, if you'd like.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby dragon » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:20 am UTC

Context? What context?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:27 pm UTC

rath358 wrote:Is anyone here well-versed in non-binary gender identities or have links to good resources on the subject? I have been doing a bit more self-reflection...

http://whatisgender.net/ This is a forum on binary and non-binary genders, with a focus on non-binary, I think. They have four different sub-forums for different groups of non-binary gender identities:
- Androgyne/Genderqueer/Intergendered
- Agendered/Neutrois
- Multiple/Plural Gender Discussions split into:
-- Multigender & Genderfluid
-- Multiplicity, Plurality, & Medianhood

http://practicalandrogyny.com/ focuses on genderneutral presentation, but on the blog http://practicalandrogyny.com/category/blog/ there are a lot of links regarding non-binary gender identities.

Tumblr seems to have multiple non-binary communities (sometimes very generic, sometimes very specifically concentrating on one type of genderqueerness, e.g. neutrois, genderfluid or multiples). However, the "heat level" on tumblr is high. When you post there you will find people like you but you will also have people hate on you in the comments (called "notes").
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Azrael001 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:39 pm UTC

I can attest to that fact. I seem to have aroused the ire of someone for daring to disagree that 'brain sex does not exist'. Now I'm in a no win situation arguing on the internet. Weeeeeeeee.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby cometoid » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:58 pm UTC

If you're interested in talking about non-binary gender you can absolutely talk to me! I'm Byron and I use they pronouns and I am not on here frequently at all but if you'd like my email/tumblr to talk just let me know.

I found something that's important for a lot of the people on this thread: getting non-binary gender recognized by the US government. If you live in the US please sign and/or share this (do you have any famous friends or relatives to bother? please do so) however you can. Link: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... s/80HYg71P

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Brace » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:54 pm UTC

Azrael001 wrote:I can attest to that fact. I seem to have aroused the ire of someone for daring to disagree that 'brain sex does not exist'. Now I'm in a no win situation arguing on the internet. Weeeeeeeee.


Wait, so which position did you take?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby DaBigCheez » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:30 am UTC

Brace wrote:
Azrael001 wrote:I can attest to that fact. I seem to have aroused the ire of someone for daring to disagree that 'brain sex does not exist'. Now I'm in a no win situation arguing on the internet. Weeeeeeeee.


Wait, so which position did you take?

Just to be on the cautious side of things, that might be a better discussion not to have/reiterate in a safespace thread :)
I am sometimes annoyed that the default smiley looks vaguely smug/sarcastic when rendered as an icon on these fora...it makes the above sound spiteful or condescending when that's not the intent :(
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby rath358 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:34 am UTC

Thanks for the links, everyone!

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Azrael001 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:32 pm UTC

I see no problem taking it elsewhere.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Becani » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:21 pm UTC

I'm still thinking about surgeries. It's something I want done soon. Like, before I'm 25. I've been at a loss as for how to come up with the money.... but, I found a fundraising site and thought it would be worth giving it a shot, so, I set one up. If anyone wants to help, you can find it here. Any support would be greatly appreciated. And if you're in a similar spot, you could set one up too! It didn't take me very long, and didn't cost me anything, so it's sort of a zero-risk high-reward option for paying for transition.

Good luck folks, and *hugs* to everyone who wants them.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Brace » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:23 pm UTC

Becani wrote:It didn't take me very long, and didn't cost me anything, so it's sort of a zero-risk high-reward option for paying for transition.


Well, given that you pass pretty much completely, the risks are those of outing yourself to unknown people.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Fire Brns » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:24 am UTC

I've been hesitant to post here before but I had a need to ask and I'm not even sure this is the right place OP includes it so I guess this is as good a place as any.

I am asexual and am very easy to socially triggered anxiety, I've shied from approaching any relationships with people I feel an emotional attraction to because of this. I feel unworthy and unable to be a fitting partner to anyone because of my "wiring". I know I should try to get out there but my anxieties get in the way, for the most part it is just the isolation of it, I've only ever talked to 2 other asexual people in my life and just in passing and not about being asexual. I was wondering if anyone else has had experience with this? Maybe assuage my fears.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:58 am UTC

I think what you're feeling is pretty normal for a young asexual (I'm assuming you're under 25, since this is xkcd). I'm, er, not young anymore and I still don't know how to deal with dating -- I stopped dating when I figured out that I just really couldn't do the whole sex thing, no matter how much I wanted to want to. That was about fifteen years ago. I've been telling my mother that I haven't met the right person yet. Argh.

One of my AVEN friends has a tactic ze uses when asking people out on dates. The following is somewhat paraphrased: "You're not seeing anyone right now, so you aren't getting any. That won't change if you date me, but I like giving hugs and backrubs. What do you say?" Ze claims some success with this approach. (I have never tried it, myself.)

Have you visited AVEN? It's pretty much the standard-bearer website for asexuals and allies/spouses. There's a forum with a lot of different boards, including one specifically for meetups with local AVEN members. (There's one from your state, though not updated for a couple of months.) I'm not sure I can recommend the online live chat, since it tends to be as frustrating as every other online live chat, but the boards are friendly and full of asexuals talking to each other.

(This would be in addition to hanging around xkcd, of course, not as a replacement. :wink: )
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Fire Brns » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:41 am UTC

Yea I'm 19. Looks interesting, never heard of AVEN before.
I find your choice admirable but I don't think I could get by without finding a partner, it's harrowing enough when half the time I only have a dog or cat to physically talk to[at].

And I should cut back on my xkcd-ing, I just start trouble in SB half the time.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby flickering_candle » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:06 pm UTC

AVEN is a pretty good site. <Echoes what poxic said>

With regards to relationships... relationships can be tough. I am able to stand having sex occasionally, although less frequently than my (non-asexual) partners wanted it, and they certainly got a lot more out of the sex itself than I did-- for me the payoff was making them happy, and the cuddling that usually followed. A person I sometimes to talk to about relationships suggested that older partners *may* be less interested in sex in general than those in their early twenties, although most of them still do want *some*. If you feel that having sex at all is just not an option for you, it does become trickier.

poxic mentioned a line that brought up the asexual part right up front; I strongly second that-- maybe not when you are asking them to coffee, but certainly before it goes much further than that. Besides being polite, this also can help address any feelings of insecurity regarding not being able to meet what they want out of a relationship-- they are aware of what you will not be providing right at the outset, and if the relationship continues, they have tacitly accepted that.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Virtual_Aardvark » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:39 pm UTC

I hope I'm not butting in here.

So, I'm a sexual person who's dated asexy people in the past. One of my exes and I never had sex. I think the furthest we got was tops off and hands never below the waist. very much enjoyed my time with them because I get a lot out of hand-holding, coffee trips, and general tomfoolery when it's romantically charged. Our relationship felt very natural and easy. I think at the time we were both relieved to not have to deal with sex but for different reasons.

My ex-girlfriend and I were a little more sexual in that we cuddled naked and took showers together a lot. We had some pretty epic makeouts but I can't remember us ever actually having sex. I really enjoyed hanging out with a beautiful naked woman who I got along with and sometimes got to kiss. It never needed to go further than that.

I don't want to tell you what to do obvs. I just want it to be know that there are sexual people who will be happy to be with you and love you in the absence of sex. For what it's worth I'm an excessively sexual person. Sex is really, really important to me. But these two people are some of the relationships I look back most fondly on. They were (and still would be if we'd kept in contact) extremely important to me. I dunno.

Disclaimer: I'm poly. I don't know that things would have gone as smoothly if those relationships weren't even nominally open. But that holds true in regards to sexual people. So make of that what you will.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:56 pm UTC

I've often thought that I'd fit in well in a poly arrangement because hey, no sex. Except I haven't tried such a thing before and have no realistic idea about how I would react to situations like "can't see A because A is seeing B right now". I'd like to think I would be all mature and understanding about it, but becoming good at things usually means first doing them a lot. :P
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Becani » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:45 pm UTC

It's never too late to start getting practice!

And yeah, poly arrangements are awesome. I'm rather experienced with them, so if anyone has questions, I'm all ears. :D

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Noc » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:12 pm UTC

Yeah, one of the things I really appreciate about them is that it's okay to want different things from different people, which definitely takes a lot of the pressure off in this area. It's not for everyone, though, and while a naive response might be "Well, if you don't want to do sex things with them then it shouldn't matter to you if they do them with other people, right?" feelings don't necessarily work that way in practice.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:28 pm UTC

^ Precisely my concern. I'd have to actually try it out before I could know for sure whether I'd react with ragey jealousy or with mature compassion. Or (more likely) some wibbly-wobbly thing in between.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Becani » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:21 am UTC

Yes.... jealousy is going to be one of the biggest problems. If you get upset seeing your partner having a nice time with someone else, and can't figure out a way to get past or absolve these feelings, then poly is probably not for you.

Another important thing is feeling secure. If you have insecurities about your relationship, they are only going to make you weep and worry about abandonment when your partner is with someone else. You must know, and not just know, but know and believe they love you. I'm serious about this part. You can't have doubts. None at all. They will harbor and allow many negative emotions about both your partner, and the person they are spending time with, to form.

The most important thing though... is definitely trust. You must be able to trust your partner that they are practicing safe sex, they won't jump ship when they find another that they like, and that they are not keeping secrets from you. You must have, well, faith, (and I hate using that word) that they will come back to you at the end of the night. (or whenever it was decided when you talked before the date started)

Oh, and communication. There must be nothing left up in the air. Everything about this must be known completely by everyone involved. Everyone must know who the primary partners are, who the secondary ones are, (or how to manage attention and affection if you try to have two equal partners) why they like the people they are interested in, what they plan on doing together, and what they already have done together. You NEED to be able to make a commitment to be open and honest about all of your thoughts and feelings.

If you're lacking in any of these areas, it's going to crumble eventually.


Soooo, yeah. It's kindof a lot of work. Moreso than a monogamous relationship? I have no idea really. I'm not so sure they can be so easily compared. Apples and Oranges, yada yada yada.

That's my experience really, I've been in poly relationships for 3-4 years, and yes, there are a LOT of hangups that need to be worked through. It's really not as simple as "I like lots of people, so I'm going to show affection to everyone I like!" It takes a LOT of time, effort, and hard work to make a successful poly relationship.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:18 am UTC

Becani wrote:Soooo, yeah. It's kindof a lot of work. Moreso than a monogamous relationship? I have no idea really.

My observation (from both the first and third person) has been that the same things necessary to make a poly relationship work well (communication, honesty, trust, etc) are necessary to make a monogamous relationship work well, but poly relationships will fall apart faster if you don't have those things. So if you have those things, neither is harder than the other; but if you don't have them, I guess you could say the poly side is "riskier" -- there are more opportunities for failure, and you would have to be luckier to just avoid them all by chance, but if you have mechanisms in place to handle problems well, it doesn't take particularly more work either way.

The biggest obstacle I've seen in both is the people involved not agreeing on which one they really want. Two people who both really want to be monogamous and make it work, or several people who all really want to be poly and make it work, and it's fine; throw anyone in who wants it the other way around or isn't sure which they want and all manner of problems erupt.

(Personal history: mostly a serial monogamist; occasional play partner of poly people; had a four-year ostensibly poly relationship with someone who didn't seem sure of which they wanted -- she declared it poly at the start but was then extremely possessive -- which ended up effectively monogamous and then ended when she went off to be monogamous with someone else). (In the end I think she wanted many guys for herself, each with nobody else for themselves, while I wanted either total monogamy from both of us, or equal openness for both of us).
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The Codex Quaerendae (my philosophy) - The Chronicles of Quelouva (my fiction)

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ShortChelsea
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby ShortChelsea » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:54 pm UTC

My boyfreind and I decided to be non-monogamous about a year ago. I'm excited and a little nervous about starting my first sexual relationship with a woman.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby flickering_candle » Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:39 pm UTC

On a different topic, I recently finished reading The Changelings: A Classical Japanese Court Tale, which is a 1983 translation (only one published in English, as far as I could tell) of a 12th century piece of Japanese literature that centers around a pair of siblings, brother and sister, who are transsexual and from early childhood fill the roles appropriate for their gender rather than their birth sex. Roughly halfway through the book, I was rather disappointed when, during circumstances forcing them to temporarily dress and live as cis members of their sex, a priest appears and proclaims that because of their father's piety, their curse has been lifted, and they were now both cisgendered. The remainder of the book deals with them assuming the roles once filled by their sibling.

This book has a trigger warning for rape.

Early in the book, some of the characters are discussing the situation with the siblings, and in several places the translator refers to it as a "sexual" problem, which struck me as a bit odd, as I've become accustomed to thinking more in terms of gender than in terms of physical sex. Most of the other characters who know of the siblings' circumstances view it as a matter of gender (although I do not recall the translator ever using that word), speaking of roles and how if only one or the other would act as a man or a woman. Interestingly, however, the siblings themselves view their circumstances primarily as a "sexual" problem-- the problem lying in their physical sex, rather than in their gender. This is, of course, how many transsexual people see themselves today, but I don't think I would have seen it so clearly in this book-- it would have faded into the background-- had it not been for the translator's avoidance of the word "gender".

I know some people have occasionally asked for book recommendations with LGBT characters. This one is a bit different than the predominately modern ones usually suggested, and aside from the sudden change of the characters to cisgendered partway through, was fairly enjoyable. It was, however, a bit difficult to obtain this book at a price I was willing to pay, as no library in my network had a copy, and the book (being 30 years old) is out of print.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby XJ_0 » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:04 am UTC

I've seen monogamous relationships work with plenty of secrets and limited communication before. I guess it is easier to keep a secret from one person, than from many?

...
Ugh. Filling out paperwork to apply for housing assistance, and there is a question about if we have used any other names in the past. We're not allowed to leave any answers blank, or "lie" at all. "I would prefer not to answer this question," is what I want to write, but I don't think they'd accept our application if I did that. v_v

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Shivahn » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:55 am UTC

I was linked this, a sort of long blog post on what breaks down to trans questioning, and thought I'd share it.

Funnily enough, as I went through it, every other paragraph I was like "I just realized that two months ago!"

Maybe I should've read it sooner >.>


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