A game constructed using 4 dimensional voxels/tesseracts

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gbagcn2
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A game constructed using 4 dimensional voxels/tesseracts

Postby gbagcn2 » Tue May 19, 2009 5:23 pm UTC

Two dimensional games are constructed using pixels which I am sure everyone is familiar with. 3D games normally use polygons but can also be constructed using voxels which are the equivelent of pixels for 3d games. Think of them like a cube. Now if you go up to 4 dimensions there isn't really a name for anything like a pixel or voxel. The closest thing is a tesseract which is a 4 dimensional cube. What would you call a 4 dimensional voxel? Since you can construct games using pixels and voxels you also should be able to construct them using 4 dimensional voxels/tesseracts. The question is would it be playable? If you wanted a completely full range of motion in these dimensions you would need 2 d-pads or analog sticks. Turning would probably look really akward since I am not sure how well you can project 4 dimensions on a 2d screen. Assuming it was playable what if you decided to then construct another game using a higher dimensional hypercube. How many dimensions would you have to go before the game became unplayable?

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Re: A game constructed using 4 dimensional voxels/tesseracts

Postby Kulantan » Tue May 19, 2009 5:34 pm UTC

It depends really. If it is a simple as 4d space invaders then, I might be able to play that. However if it was more like a 4d FPS then I think that most of us mere mortal would be screwed ("Quick there's a sniper to your superright*" "where???" *blam*).

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Re: A game constructed using 4 dimensional voxels/tesseracts

Postby eternauta3k » Tue May 19, 2009 6:08 pm UTC

gbagcn2 wrote:The question is would it be playable? If you wanted a completely full range of motion in these dimensions you would need 2 d-pads or analog sticks. Turning would probably look really akward since I am not sure how well you can project 4 dimensions on a 2d screen.

Imagine moving around a level as usual, but with your scroll wheel you change the 4th dimension. That would allow you to go through walls that aren't present at some other point in that dimension, or run away from someone by jumping around and changing this dimension.
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Re: A game constructed using 4 dimensional voxels/tesseracts

Postby Osha » Tue May 19, 2009 9:03 pm UTC

Y'all might be interested in this java 4D maze game.
I wasn't able to cross my eyes enough to play, but from looking at it it seems epicly confusing.

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Re: A game constructed using 4 dimensional voxels/tesseracts

Postby diotimajsh » Tue May 19, 2009 11:07 pm UTC

Osha wrote:Y'all might be interested in this java 4D maze game.
I wasn't able to cross my eyes enough to play, but from looking at it it seems epicly confusing.

Oh my God, that may be the most confusing thing I've tried to use in the last... .... several lifetimes.

Thanks for posting it though! It's very trippy.

(Incidentally, you can also induce stereoscopic effects by looking past the objects rather than crossing your eyes. I think this inverts the depth though (e.g. what should be concave appears convex, what should be recessed protrudes, and vice versa). Might be worth trying still, if it's easier for some people?)

edit: And actually, turns out the program has a check box for whether you want to use the cross-eyed technique or the looking-past technique.
Last edited by diotimajsh on Wed May 20, 2009 9:58 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A game constructed using 4 dimensional voxels/tesseracts

Postby rnew » Tue May 19, 2009 11:13 pm UTC

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Re: A game constructed using 4 dimensional voxels/tesseracts

Postby Indon » Wed May 20, 2009 12:53 am UTC

Osha wrote:Y'all might be interested in this java 4D maze game.
I wasn't able to cross my eyes enough to play, but from looking at it it seems epicly confusing.


So, I figured out a way to navigate it with my puny 3-d brain.

You can use the arrow keys to rotate the cube to a perfectly isometric angle (such that the white outline of the cube makes the structure look like a rough pie-divided hexagon, kinda like a trivial pursuit piece), at which point my horizontal axis was horizontal, and my vertical and hyper axes made a diagonal X. Using that shortcut, I visually abstracted navigation for two axes into one (well, technically three axes into two).

Thankfully, the maze is discrete, and does not feature the ability to roll.

Edit: Disregard, I figured out how to roll and it's not that bad.
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Re: A game constructed using 4 dimensional voxels/tesseracts

Postby the_bandersnatch » Wed May 20, 2009 3:12 pm UTC

Since the human brain cannot visually comprehend 4-dimensional space (though it is, of course, possible to comprehend it abstractly, otherwise we wouldn't be talking about it in the first place!), and not to mention you could not display 4 dimensional constructs on a 2 dimensional display, such a game would be pretty pointless. Since we can do maths in 4 spacial dimensions easy enough a computer could run the game, but we could not play it.

For example, think of a normal 3 dimensional human interacting with a 2d plane. A 2d being would interpret our finger, say, as a circle that grows or shrinks depending on how we move the finger in and out of their plane. The 2d being would have no concept of "in" and "out" though, except as abstract ideas; it could not visualise them. Moving this up to a 4d "finger" interacting with our 3d world, we would simply see a sphere that grows or shrinks depending on how it's being moved "in" and "out" of our plane. Other objects would similarly appears as odd floating 3d shapes of changing sizes that appear to have no connection. In a game, navigating round on this axis would be nigh-on impossible as you would no doubt keep bumping into objects you cannot perceive.

Edit: as Indon noted, you can navigate of sorts by "elimating" one axis - keeping your orientation on that axis unchanged as you move around the other 3. But this is really just fancy 3d movement :P
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Re: A game constructed using 4 dimensional voxels/tesseracts

Postby SiTiC.Hybrid » Wed May 20, 2009 8:53 pm UTC

Well, it depends how loosely you interpret a 4d game. The topic question about voxels etc- no, we couldn't visualize such a game. At least, not on a 2 dimensional surface. But create a basic FPS where each map is actually several different maps, with variations that make sense along 4 dimensions, and the ability to shift up or down between the layered maps, and you would have a _functional_ four dimensional game. Or you could work out the rules for say, four dimensional checkers and than program an engine that breaks it down into disparate elements we could process and use to play. I just would never ever attempt to do that with chess, or anything more complicated.

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Re: A game constructed using 4 dimensional voxels/tesseracts

Postby Ended » Wed May 20, 2009 9:10 pm UTC

eternauta3k wrote:Imagine moving around a level as usual, but with your scroll wheel you change the 4th dimension. That would allow you to go through walls that aren't present at some other point in that dimension, or run away from someone by jumping around and changing this dimension.
The only trouble with this is that it distinguishes the fourth dimension, since you can't look along it - you can only move along it. (As the_bandersnatch says, you'll bump into things). This could maybe be solved by having the screen split into two, the second screen showing a projection along a different axis. Or maybe there could be four hotkeys which change the projection (one along each axis).
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Vieto
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Re: A game constructed using 4 dimensional voxels/tesseracts

Postby Vieto » Wed May 20, 2009 11:36 pm UTC

I liked the maze game. I also liked how it allowed you to 'shift' between the sections of the hypercube. Just one 'shift' might open up a passageway previously unexplored.

Though, theoretically, you could map it out.

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Re: A game constructed using 4 dimensional voxels/tesseracts

Postby Squid Tamer » Thu May 21, 2009 12:02 am UTC

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Adanaxis. It claims to be a 4d space shooter (or something to that effect). It even has a free GPL version for Linux (And maybe others, I'm not sure). I've played it, but I can't say whether it's true 4d or not.

http://www.mushware.com/

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Re: A game constructed using 4 dimensional voxels/tesseracts

Postby Dimetrodon » Thu May 21, 2009 12:46 am UTC

Aah the maze game I have no idea what I'm doing but I think it would be awesome if I did
Also cool: http://dovsherman.deviantart.com/art/Hypercube-Manual-Rotations-25706685
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Re: A game constructed using 4 dimensional voxels/tesseracts

Postby muteKi » Thu May 21, 2009 5:56 am UTC

That maze game is awesome. I've been wanting a game like that for a little while now, I just didn't realize how much.
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