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fjafjan
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Postby fjafjan » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:36 pm UTC

I try to be nice to people in shops, yet I am often a bit confused, but hopefully nothing of annoyance.

Also I often confuse the "thank you" and "no problem" and whatnot phrases, i hate them, they make no sence!
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SpitValve
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Postby SpitValve » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:53 pm UTC

In New Zealand you can just use "Cheers" for everything really.

Also, watching Fawty Towers is good therapy if you have worked in retail or hospitality, even though it's 30 years old.

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Postby Jesse » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:55 pm UTC

I am usually fine with being nice to people who are serving me. Although I occasionally fail, like when I was purchasing my monthly copy of ImagineFX and the lady serving me was of a particularly attractive nature.

Unofrtunately, it was at the moment I handed the magazine over that I looked at the front cover properly; the front cover that displayed a scantily-clad, busty manga babe that it was purporting to teach me how to draw.

I wasn't embarassed, but it also made my conversational skills fall to pieces.

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Roffle
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Postby Roffle » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:55 pm UTC

I love the word "cheers"... I wish we had an equivalent here, that would be so great!
"Error juris semper nocet"

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Postby Castaway » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:51 pm UTC

you could just say cheers. Bring cheers back to the states!
You've just lost twenty dollars and my self respect.

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Andrew
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Postby Andrew » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:53 pm UTC

CorranH wrote:Trust me. Just give me a fucking ten, and I'll give you a penny. It's easier.


Yeah?

Well on behalf of customers, can I ask that if you say "That's £3.55" and I give you £4.15 so you don't have to empty the register changing my twenty, don't look blank for two entire minutes and then give me two 20p coins. (This really happened to me; in the science park café of all places.) And always have change.

This thing works both ways.


Edit: We have "cheers" here, too. It's very handy.

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Pebbles
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Postby Pebbles » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:03 am UTC

i dont mind doing the change thing as long as people can 1. count there own damn change! and 2. actually have the change in the first place. many a times ive had people searching through their bag or pockets for the 5c piece they KNEW they had.. and it just never got found. Hell we even keep a supply of 10c and 5c pieces sitting on the till now so we can just give people the 5c they are so desperatly searching for in their bag. It saves SO much time and annoyance

also, i like the hyperfriendly people.. i do NOT like the seedy old men who wanna tell me their make believe war stories. I kid you not, i had some old guy come in and start telling me 'his' war story.. it was pretty much the same story as Saving Private Ryan.. He wasnt even american.
ack
anyway, props for people who can put up with working in retail.
oh, also.. i have a habit of saying 'youre welcome' before customers say 'thank you' and then they say thank you.. and its all abit uncomfortable..
xx
She only looked away for a moment, and the mask slipped, and you fell. All your tomorrows start here.
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Solt
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Postby Solt » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:01 am UTC

You guys crack me up.

Since when did retail exist for the purpose of random people making the salespeople feel good? Do you really go to work to justify your worth as a human?

Business is about the customer. What you should care about is getting their money, and the salesperson's job is to provide the ideal environment to persuade the customer to give you their money. If they don't want to interact with anyone, so be it, as long as they're going to spend money. Shortchanging jerks or otherwise getting revenge on them only hurts you, the business, as it is likely to keep the customer from coming back (if they notice). If you only want polite people as your customers, you're missing the point of doing business.

Besides, what right do you have to judge? Maybe someone is having a bad day. Maybe their dad just died and they don't feel like talking to cheery people. And then you go and short change them?
"Welding was faster, cheaper and, in theory,
produced a more reliable product. But sailors do
not float on theory, and the welded tankers had a
most annoying habit of splitting in two."
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Belial
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Postby Belial » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:10 am UTC

Since when did retail exist for the purpose of random people making the salespeople feel good? Do you really go to work to justify your worth as a human?


No, it exists so that the salesperson can get a piddly hourly wage, and the customer can get an item.

That doesn't excuse either person from common courtesy.

Business is about the customer. What you should care about is getting their money,


Most retail establishments don't give the employees much of a reason to care about that. I was more worried about making sure a customer doesn't steal than I was about selling enough...whatever.

But mostly I was just worried about not getting fired and counting the minutes to the end of my shift.

Shortchanging jerks or otherwise getting revenge on them only hurts you, the business,


When did I become synonymous with my company? You'd think I'd see a cut of the profits, were that the case...

Besides, what right do you have to judge? Maybe someone is having a bad day. Maybe their dad just died and they don't feel like talking to cheery people. And then you go and short change them?


Personal drama does not excuse acting like a dick. If you can't interact like a civilized person, you have no business leaving your house.
Last edited by Belial on Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:14 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Pebbles
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Postby Pebbles » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:13 am UTC

agreed
She only looked away for a moment, and the mask slipped, and you fell. All your tomorrows start here.

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Solt
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Postby Solt » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:35 am UTC

Belial wrote:When did I become synonymous with my company? You'd think I'd see a cut of the profits, were that the case...



Thus we see why most people don't get promoted...


Well everything I talked about is how it should all work out, in theory. If you're going to take such an attitude however then (try to) enjoy being a pawn. The reality is businesses exist to make money and salespeople are there to help the business make money. You only have a job as long as the business is around, right? Maybe you ought to take more of an interest in ensuring its success.
"Welding was faster, cheaper and, in theory,

produced a more reliable product. But sailors do

not float on theory, and the welded tankers had a

most annoying habit of splitting in two."

-J.W. Morris

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Belial
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Postby Belial » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:37 am UTC

You only have a job as long as the business is around, right? Maybe you ought to take more of an interest in ensuring its success.


Most people don't aspire to be in retail for very long. (Mostly because it sucks, the customers are dicks, and the pay is crap).

The last retail establishment I worked for went out of business shortly after I quit. I cannot say I was sad. Or interested. Or affected.
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Postby Emmaskillz » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:50 am UTC

I always reply to salespersons if they say hello, and always say thank you, and generally smile (I smile without much effort, unless I am having a particularly bad day).

When I went overseas a couple of years ago, I had saved up some moneyz to take with me and I went to get it changed into the appropriate currency. So the lady gets the swiss francs for me and then doesn't take my australian moneyz. I was just kinda waiting there for her to take the money but she just walked away from the desk. I was so confused as to how she could have even managed that, but it was her mistake so I just took all the money and left.

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Roffle
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Postby Roffle » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:15 am UTC

Solt wrote:
Belial wrote:When did I become synonymous with my company? You'd think I'd see a cut of the profits, were that the case...



Thus we see why most people don't get promoted...


Well everything I talked about is how it should all work out, in theory. If you're going to take such an attitude however then (try to) enjoy being a pawn. The reality is businesses exist to make money and salespeople are there to help the business make money. You only have a job as long as the business is around, right? Maybe you ought to take more of an interest in ensuring its success.


Most people don't get promoted, because managment jobs are one hell of a lot fewer and far between than clerk jobs. And guess what? When the opportunity comes, they'll hire an edumacated fool, and not a grunt.

Read my lips: There is no reason in hell why salespeople should take whatever bullshit a customer throws their way. People are stupid, ignorant and rude. If they are, then that should have some type of consequence. You're not supposed to get away with acting like a jerk.

If an employer managed to inspire the level of dedication you're talking about, then sure, salespeople would suck people off to make a sale... But this is the real world, employers don't, salespeople don't (because they sure as hell don't get paid enough for that kind of devotion), and some customers don't deserve to be given the time of day.

EDIT:

Image

*ahem*
"Error juris semper nocet"

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Puellus Peregrinus
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Postby Puellus Peregrinus » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:29 am UTC

Solt wrote:Business is about the customer. What you should care about is getting their money, and the salesperson's job is to provide the ideal environment to persuade the customer to give you their money. If they don't want to interact with anyone, so be it, as long as they're going to spend money.

Actually I wouldn't call most of these people salespersons but cashiers. Salesperson is a person who makes the sale. I don't think that a cashier trying to help the customer deserves being treated like a trash.
If you go to the customer talk him over and do the closing that is when you should expect the shit to rain down. After all, a real salesperson will earn twice what the clerk does.

And niceness can be beneficial for the customer too. I got away with my insurance related stupidity (100€ + a slight chance of losing my credit standing)by flirting to the hot-sounding woman over the phone.
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Solt
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Postby Solt » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:27 am UTC

Roffle wrote: And guess what? When the opportunity comes, they'll hire an edumacated fool, and not a grunt.


Wrong. Even in this day and age, there are plenty of CEOs with no formal education beyond high school who started off as manual laborers or a sales clerk in a store. They'll promote the people who they think will be the most beneficial for the business, educated or not. It is in everyone's benefit to reward merit, not "qualifications." Ever heard that what you learn in college doesn't matter in the real world? Yea, that's why. It's more important that you be dedicated to the success of the business and capable of improving it.


If an employer managed to inspire the level of dedication you're talking about, then sure, salespeople would suck people off to make a sale... But this is the real world, employers don't, salespeople don't (because they sure as hell don't get paid enough for that kind of devotion), and some customers don't deserve to be given the time of day.


Why the hell should they pay you "enough" before you show that kind of devotion? If you make yourself a valuable asset to the business then believe me, they will treat you well. Any business that can't recognize and reward talent and dedication is a business that won't be around very long. You obviously don't become a successful business by treating hard working employees like shit.

And you don't serve customers because they are good people and you are good people and good people should be nice and get along with each other. You serve customers because you are getting their money. Nothing else should matter.
"Welding was faster, cheaper and, in theory,

produced a more reliable product. But sailors do

not float on theory, and the welded tankers had a

most annoying habit of splitting in two."

-J.W. Morris

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Roffle
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Postby Roffle » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:47 pm UTC

Wrong. Even in this day and age, there are plenty of CEOs with no formal education beyond high school who started off as manual laborers or a sales clerk in a store. They'll promote the people who they think will be the most beneficial for the business, educated or not. It is in everyone's benefit to reward merit, not "qualifications." Ever heard that what you learn in college doesn't matter in the real world? Yea, that's why.


I'd like to see some statistic on that claim, please. Exactly how many people, on average, in managment positions, are not educated to be in that position? If you don't know squat about echonomics, trade, sociology, psychology and whatnot, how can you hold an upper managment job? Because managment never does anything? That would make sense. And there's also the social aspect, but I won't get into that, because that would blow this way out of proportion.

Well, what you learn in college does matter in the real world. Simple fact, if you don't know general echonomics when making echonomical decisions for a business, more often then not, you'll screw up.

It's more important that you be dedicated to the success of the business and capable of improving it.


Dedicated AND capable. Are you assuming that somebody with no education would be capable of contributing, no matter their level of dedication?

Why the hell should they pay you "enough" before you show that kind of devotion? If you make yourself a valuable asset to the business then believe me, they will treat you well. Any business that can't recognize and reward talent and dedication is a business that won't be around very long. You obviously don't become a successful business by treating hard working employees like shit.


Why the hell should you sacrifice that much energy and show that much devotion, for the very slight possibility that you might get a raise or even more unlikely, a promotion? Especially if managment hasn't given any indication that this *might* happen? Have you ever worked in a retail situation? People wear themselves out just to do a GOOD job, why should they try and do an *amazing* job without the incentive?

And just for the record, apparently, you become a successful business by keeping your manpower costs to a minimum, by having as few people do as much work as possible, for as little money as they'll accept. That's the truth of retail. Where I work, the company even got away with paying workers less than the legal minimum wage for service industries for a long time, before it was fixed. Companies try to screw their employees over as much as they can get away with, because it increases profit. And this is one of the reasons why I'm becoming a lawyer. Because people shouldn't have to put up with this crap.

And you don't serve customers because they are good people and you are good people and good people should be nice and get along with each other. You serve customers because you are getting their money. Nothing else should matter.


I serve customers because I'm paid to do a job. I do my job courteously and professionally, because I take pride in doing my job well. Nowhere in that sentence does it say "Hello, customer, you have a right to abuse me, so go ahead and chew me out because I have to charge you for your wares, or I won't be doing my job". It's called common courtesy. Being polite. There are a few situations where you don't need to be polite. Being attacked on the street is one. Going to the store is NOT one. That concept is not difficult to understand.
"Error juris semper nocet"

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Belial
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Postby Belial » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:20 pm UTC

Wrong. Even in this day and age, there are plenty of CEOs with no formal education beyond high school who started off as manual laborers or a sales clerk in a store. They'll promote the people who they think will be the most beneficial for the business, educated or not. It is in everyone's benefit to reward merit, not "qualifications." Ever heard that what you learn in college doesn't matter in the real world? Yea, that's why. It's more important that you be dedicated to the success of the business and capable of improving it.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH... ::wipes tears::

Oh that's fucking adorable. Now go actually work in the corporate, food service, or retail world for any length of time. It does not work this way. Promise.

I've seen so many people get passed over for promotions they richly deserved so that the higher-ups could hire in an *entirely new* person with a business degree or somesuch. Things *are* pretty much exactly as Roffle describes them.

And you don't serve customers because they are good people and you are good people and good people should be nice and get along with each other. You serve customers because you are getting their money. Nothing else should matter.


And at no point would I stop taking your money and giving you items just because you're a dick. Because that would get me fired.

That doesn't make you less a dick, and that doesn't excuse you from courtesy.

Or from the unseen retributions. The deals missed out on, special orders misplaced or sold to better customers, the change you don't notice you're missing that instead buys my lunch.

Being an asshole to people does not pay. Ever. The sooner people understand this, the sooner everyone will be happy.
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Toeofdoom
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Postby Toeofdoom » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:44 pm UTC

yeah, I agree. If I had been an asshole while buying this laptop... they wouldve charged me full price for the extra RAM, the mouse, the backpack and possible added a little more, and I would've been another 2-300 dollars poorer. But instead I got the mouse for free and the memory and backpack at cost price. While the laptop was already on special. How does this not beat assholery?
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Belial
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Postby Belial » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:49 pm UTC

It's especially true because, once someone has decided to be an asshole, they've also decided that they *deserve* good service, no matter how they act. They've decided they're entitled. Which is an attitude Solt seems to agree with.

Which means that no amount of good service on the clerk/salesman/food-preparer's part is going to inspire any sort of appreciation or loyalty. Because our hypothetical captain asshole believes he's entitled to it anyway. So what incentive do *I*, our hypothetical salesperson, have to give this customer *anything* more than the absolute bare minimum of service, wherein I take his money, give him a thing, and get him out of my store?

None. In fact, if business is good enough, he's probably taking up time I *could* be using to answer the questions of a *good* customer who I actually care about building a rapport with.
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Postby wilkeson » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:53 pm UTC

Belial wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH... ::wipes tears::

Oh that's fucking adorable. Now go actually work in the corporate, food service, or retail world for any length of time. It does not work this way. Promise.


Adorable or not, he's right. here's a link to Federal Express' top executives. There is actually a handful of them with nothing more than a bachelors degree. And honestly bachelors degrees practically come in boxes of cereal these days. Also keep in mind that those are the top of the top of the top. I'd be willing to bet that the lower you go the less MBAs you find.

I've seen so many people get passed over for promotions they richly deserved so that the higher-ups could hire in an *entirely new* person with a business degree or somesuch. Things *are* pretty much exactly as Roffle describes them.


Did these people who got passed over also steal money from customers or was that just your thing? I don't have the post in front of me, but I seem to recall that there were multiple people involved.

And at no point would I stop taking your money and giving you items just because you're a dick. Because that would get me fired.


Oh the irony.

Or from the unseen retributions. The deals missed out on, special orders misplaced or sold to better customers, the change you don't notice you're missing that instead buys my lunch.


Hey, send me your resume! I like your style. You let assholes get to you and drag you down to their level. Hell, even lower than their level. It's almost like you tried to one-up them, and succeeded!

Good lord this thread sounds like a worst-of livejournal compilation. *Sniff* someone wasn't chipper enough when I asked them if they found everything they were looking for. Christ, I've had people ram me with shopping carts before (on Black friday albeit) but all it did was make me laugh. Here's someone who's trying so hard to piss me off, and all I could do was laugh. It actually gave me a pretty good feeling of superiority. And I didn't even have to steal their purse to get it.

Take a chill pill and get over yourself.

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Belial
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Postby Belial » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:02 pm UTC

Did these people who got passed over also steal money from customers or was that just your thing? I don't have the post in front of me, but I seem to recall that there were multiple people involved.


Hahah. Different job. That particular job didn't last terribly long before I (and subsequently, nearly everyone else) quit and the place went out of business. Good riddance.

Hey, send me your resume! I like your style. You let assholes get to you and drag you down to their level. Hell, even lower than their level. It's almost like you tried to one-up them, and succeeded!


Anything to make the job bearable. I'm somewhere else now, in a job that doesn't involve customers (thank the gods), now it just pisses me off when I see customers being dicks to salespeople who aren't me.

Christ, I've had people ram me with shopping carts before (on Black friday albeit) but all it did was make me laugh. Here's someone who's trying so hard to piss me off, and all I could do was laugh. It actually gave me a pretty good feeling of superiority. And I didn't even have to steal their purse to get it.


Were you working in the store in question? Because there's a big difference than having a bad shopping day and going home to laugh about it, and having to go back to the same place to deal with the same asshole behaviour day in and day out.

It gets to you.

Adorable or not, he's right. here's a link to Federal Express' top executives. There is actually a handful of them with nothing more than a bachelors degree. And honestly bachelors degrees practically come in boxes of cereal these days. Also keep in mind that those are the top of the top of the top. I'd be willing to bet that the lower you go the less MBAs you find.


So you found one company. That doesn't even meet the parameters set out (people in high positions who lack anything but a high school education).

Victory is yours.
Last edited by Belial on Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:08 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby wilkeson » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:07 pm UTC

Belial wrote:Were you working in the store in question? Because there's a big difference than having a bad shopping day and going home to laugh about it, and having to go back to the same place to deal with the same asshole behaviour day in and day out.

It gets to you.

I was working there, on hour 8 or so of what turned out to be a 15 hour day.

I have no clue why someone would give a random person the satisfaction of controlling their mood.

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Belial
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Postby Belial » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:10 pm UTC

The point is that how you treat the salesperson affects how the salesperson treats you. Mood is irrelevant.

(edited for diction)
Last edited by Belial on Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:14 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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wilkeson
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Postby wilkeson » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:11 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
Adorable or not, he's right. here's a link to Federal Express' top executives. There is actually a handful of them with nothing more than a bachelors degree. And honestly bachelors degrees practically come in boxes of cereal these days. Also keep in mind that those are the top of the top of the top. I'd be willing to bet that the lower you go the less MBAs you find.


So you found one company. That doesn't even meet the parameters set out (people in high positions who lack anything but a high school education).

Victory is yours.


Yes, I listed one company, sorry I didn't have time to comb though all of the fortune 500s executives lists. It just happens to be one of the largest and most successful international company in the world. Go to any corporate website and go through their top executives, you'll see the same thing, a mix of people with MBAs and PhDs and some with just Bachelors or even just work experience.

Edit to prove a point:

DAVID F. REBHOLZ
President, Chief Executive Officer

No higher education, started as a part-time employee.

LARRY C. MILLER
President, Chief Executive Officer
FedEx Freight East

No higher education, only 35 years of work experience.

Brian Philips
Executive Vice President, Chief Operating Officer

No higher education.

And I can't stress enough how these people are the very top of the food chain. I was actually surprised that there were that many. I was expecting one tops.
Last edited by wilkeson on Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:21 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Belial
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Postby Belial » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:20 pm UTC

Yes, I listed one company, sorry I didn't have time to comb though all of the fortune 500s executives lists. It just happens to be one of the largest and most successful international company in the world. Go to any corporate website and go through their top executives, you'll see the same thing, a mix of people with MBAs and PhDs and some with just Bachelors or even just work experience.


Without information on how they got to those positions, I remain unconvinced. I've seen, as I've said, a lot of people get passed over for the outsider who looks better on paper. And a lot of people I've spoken to can corroborate that.

Meanwhile, I've also seen a lot of dreadfully unqualified people get better jobs *on entry* because they're related to someone, or go to church with someone, or are old friends of someone, or suchlike.

Which is all largely irrelevant because many people, especially young folk, don't get a retail job because they want to go places in that company, they get a retail job because they need money to tide them over until they get where they're going. Promotion is irrelevant to them, and isn't going to happen anyway because their bosses know they're temporary.

So, without promotion or much in the way of raises to work toward, the only incentive they have to serve you is pride in their work and a desire not to get fired, the former of which will only carry them so far if you, the customer, are intent on throwing it in their face; the latter of which will only inspire them to do the bare minimum required to avoid it.

If you want good service, be a good customer. If you want really bad service, be a dick.

Edit:

It should be noted that, in my experience both with working retail and in dealing with retail and food service employees, this goes the other way too: If you are a good customer (which involves, as I've beaten to death, being courteous and considerate, not just spending money) the employee will go to great lengths to repay the favor and keep you as a customer. They will spend extra time, above and beyond, on looking for things for you, notifying you of things you might be interested in, arranging deals and discounts, tracking your special orders, or getting something for you for free to make up for a setback or inconvenience.

Being shat on all day really makes one appreciate the customers who *do* bother to act human and treat you likewise.
Last edited by Belial on Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:40 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Puellus Peregrinus
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Postby Puellus Peregrinus » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:38 pm UTC

I think that getting promoted to management is only possible when there is lack of sufficiently trained people and owners want to expand. And then some people have connections which can ease their way up :x

But it is possible. I used to close twice the amount of deals than the average grunt at one job I had. When I was leaving I was offered a managers position if I were willing to start a new branch office in Tampere. Too bad I was just 17 at that time :D
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Roffle
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Postby Roffle » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:55 pm UTC

Adorable or not, he's right. here's a link to Federal Express' top executives. There is actually a handful of them with nothing more than a bachelors degree. And honestly bachelors degrees practically come in boxes of cereal these days. Also keep in mind that those are the top of the top of the top. I'd be willing to bet that the lower you go the less MBAs you find.


How does that make him right? Those are a few exceptions to the rule. Congratulations. You've proven that the rule has exceptions.

Now, please go find me a thousand more. And even then, that would be an extremely small percentage of the business world.

Let's also examine something else. I didn't want to bring up the social aspect, but have you ever heard of a little thing called connections? Rich families? The image of the "self-made man" is all well and good, but he is an exception, or rather an exceptionally resourceful and driven man. Those people are possible. Harvard educated rich boys on first-name basis with the CEO, there are more of. What? You think I'm wrong? Aww... That's so naive of you.

How many clerks and salespeople do you know that have a bachelor in echonomics or management? Hm? Really? Well, maybe that's because they don't work in retail, they got the jobs they were educated for!

I'm willing to bet that the lower you get in the food chain, the more rich boys with less education there are, but also a lot more hard-working people that worked their asses off in college to get a masters, so they could have that very job. Look at it from the employers perspective: Do you want a person with 5 years of education in economics running the show, or the cashier who's only qualification is to plaster on a fake smile and attach his lips to the customers ass? Heck, I'd rather take the rudest sonnovabitch clerk I could find, because then I'd at least be sure that he'd have the balls to make tough decisions and negotiate good deals.

Did these people who got passed over also steal money from customers or was that just your thing? I don't have the post in front of me, but I seem to recall that there were multiple people involved.


While I don't condone any form of stealing, there's a flaw in your logic. If the boss knows you're stealing money from customers, you get fired. If the boss doesn't know, he would have to have some totally unrelated reason for not promoting you. Like the fact that he can hire somebody better qualified for the job (educationally) for the same money. And even get somebody just as dedicated and enthusiastic as that perfect salesperson you're talking about. A lot of people are educated and want jobs.

Oh the irony.


How is it ironic? It's true. One does one's job.

Hey, send me your resume! I like your style. You let assholes get to you and drag you down to their level. Hell, even lower than their level. It's almost like you tried to one-up them, and succeeded!


I would call that "being provoked", and not being worse than an asshole. If you decide to treat people you meet like shit, then guess what? People reciprocate. That's not being worse than an asshole, that's harmony. That's justice. Breaking social norm = sanction. And at no point is whatever Belial did worse than what the asshole customer deserved by right of provocation.

Good lord this thread sounds like a worst-of livejournal compilation. *Sniff* someone wasn't chipper enough when I asked them if they found everything they were looking for. Christ, I've had people ram me with shopping carts before (on Black friday albeit) but all it did was make me laugh. Here's someone who's trying so hard to piss me off, and all I could do was laugh. It actually gave me a pretty good feeling of superiority. And I didn't even have to steal their purse to get it.

Take a chill pill and get over yourself.


Hey, if you don't mind that people forget common courtesy, treat you like shit, and all you can do is smile about it, then good for you. Have fun at the asylum when you finally crack, mkay?

But, seing as you are such an amazing retail worker, I bet you've been promoted. Right? Right?

I'm pretty sure you get fired for stealing a customers purse, though... Don't think anyone here has tried that.

Wow, you are so amazingly cool. "Chill pill".. classic! Can I like have your autograph and babies and stuff? I mean, telling us to get over ourselves is like SOOO clever. Never heard that one before, nope, you're totally original, you are. What? You feel kinda aggravated that I'm mocking you? Why? I thought you said you laughed things off?

I have no clue why someone would give a random person the satisfaction of controlling their mood.


If the people you meet and the things that happen to you every day have absolutely no effect on your mood, then congratulations, you're a psychopath. You could also be suffering from SPD (schizoid personality disorder). Both cause a state of emotionlessness.
"Error juris semper nocet"

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Jesse
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Postby Jesse » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:07 pm UTC

As I've said before, I worked in retail for a year, for a supermarket.

I was lucky enough to get a line manager who also hated customers (I worked customer service and the kiosk). I would never intentionally do things to annoy the customer, because then they don't go away, but they would get the minimal possible service from me.

However, for people who were genuinely nice for me I would often go 'above and beyond' what is expected, such as holding items to one side for them (Which we weren't supposed to do), or not minding that their guarantee ran out the day before. On occasion I would actually note down their phone number if they wanted a product that was out of stock, then check every day when I came into work until it had arrived, before putting it to one side and phoning them.

So it is not like I would be reciprocally mean to annoying customers, but I would not do anything to be kind either.

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Tractor
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Postby Tractor » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:08 pm UTC

Irony:
This thread has turned into a sort of model for the behavior it is describing. Assholery has begotten assholery.

Well done.
9 x 6 = 42

Note: Randall kicks ass.

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Roffle
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Postby Roffle » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:10 pm UTC

Tractor wrote:Irony:
This thread has turned into a sort of model for the behavior it is describing. Assholery has begotten assholery.

Well done.


How so? I've not seen much, I've only seen opinions, and of course, the delightful brand of sarcasm often practiced on online fora.

Like that tubby guy in the Simpsons. You know, in the comic store? He's a hoot. And your sig gives me robot nightmares.
"Error juris semper nocet"

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Tractor
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Postby Tractor » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:16 pm UTC

Roffle wrote:How so? I've not seen much, I've only seen opinions, and of course, the delightful brand of sarcasm often practiced on online fora.

See, I missed that all of that was sarcastic. I saw some, but it looked mostly like heated argument.
9 x 6 = 42



Note: Randall kicks ass.

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Roffle
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Postby Roffle » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:06 pm UTC

All of it wasn't. Most of it is an accurate depiction of actual opinions. I don't see assholery anywhere, though.

People are *allowed* to have heated debates, right? It's difficult to maintain a light, casual and timid tone when someone tells you you're bad at your job, just because you feel that people who work in retail deserve as much politeness as everyone else.

Could you please specify where I have been an asshole and where my points have not been valid?
"Error juris semper nocet"

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Postby wilkeson » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:20 pm UTC

Roffle wrote:How does that make him right? Those are a few exceptions to the rule. Congratulations. You've proven that the rule has exceptions.

Now, please go find me a thousand more. And even then, that would be an extremely small percentage of the business world.


No, I've proven that the rule doesn't exist. You can work up the corporate ladder without a higher degree. But why would you insist on being promoted without making any effort to better yourself? I'm sure that several of the executives with MBAs received them through night school while working full time. And guess what? Companies like initiative and constantly striving to better yourself.

I mentioned where to find examples, I'm confidant that I'm correct, if it bothers you that much I'm sure you can find them.

Let's also examine something else. I didn't want to bring up the social aspect, but have you ever heard of a little thing called connections? Rich families? The image of the "self-made man" is all well and good, but he is an exception, or rather an exceptionally resourceful and driven man. Those people are possible. Harvard educated rich boys on first-name basis with the CEO, there are more of. What? You think I'm wrong? Aww... That's so naive of you.


Ah, the class-paranoia. I'm willing to wager that's more of a self-for filling prophesy than anything else. "I'm not in the old-boy's network so I might as well not even try." In that list of FedEx execs I posted a link to there were just as many no-name colleges as there were Harvards and Yales. So aside from personal bias, there's nothing to support this claim.

How many clerks and salespeople do you know that have a bachelor in echonomics or management? Hm? Really? Well, maybe that's because they don't work in retail, they got the jobs they were educated for!


Exactly. How many do I know that are taking classes towards one of those degrees while they work as a clerk? 5. They work in retail because it's a mindless job that's easy to excel at so they can focus on their studies.

I'm willing to bet that the lower you get in the food chain, the more rich boys with less education there are, but also a lot more hard-working people that worked their asses off in college to get a masters, so they could have that very job. Look at it from the employers perspective: Do you want a person with 5 years of education in economics running the show, or the cashier who's only qualification is to plaster on a fake smile and attach his lips to the customers ass? Heck, I'd rather take the rudest sonnovabitch clerk I could find, because then I'd at least be sure that he'd have the balls to make tough decisions and negotiate good deals.


Why do they have to be seperate people? Why can't the cashier and the person in college working towards a masters be the same person?

There seems to be a theme here that corporations should only promote people who have worked there without a degree. Which seems to be a bizarre mindset. Being a good clerk doesn't automatically make you a good manager.

While I don't condone any form of stealing, there's a flaw in your logic. If the boss knows you're stealing money from customers, you get fired. If the boss doesn't know, he would have to have some totally unrelated reason for not promoting you.


My logic is flawless, if you're disgruntled enough to actively steal large amounts of money from customers it's unlikely you have good personal skills.

Oh the irony.


How is it ironic? It's true. One does one's job.


It was ironic because the sentence I was replying to implied that he would stop taking the customers money because it would get him fired, when in a previous post he bragged about stealing money from the customer.

I would call that "being provoked", and not being worse than an asshole. If you decide to treat people you meet like shit, then guess what? People reciprocate. That's not being worse than an asshole, that's harmony. That's justice. Breaking social norm = sanction. And at no point is whatever Belial did worse than what the asshole customer deserved by right of provocation.


I'm sorry, when does being rude give someone car blanch to steal from you? Are we confusing social norms and laws? This isn't Vietnam, there are rules here.

Hey, if you don't mind that people forget common courtesy, treat you like shit, and all you can do is smile about it, then good for you. Have fun at the asylum when you finally crack, mkay?

But, seing as you are such an amazing retail worker, I bet you've been promoted. Right? Right?


I'll never crack because it doesn't cause me stress. In fact, I often find it funny.

As for the promotion. Hell no, I took the degree I was working towards and got myself a real job. One of my co-workers was promoted to some kind of mid-level management a month or so after I left, because he was a good worker. If he decides to stay with that company he will go far within it, even without a coveted degree from Harvard.

Wow, you are so amazingly cool. "Chill pill".. classic! Can I like have your autograph and babies and stuff? I mean, telling us to get over ourselves is like SOOO clever. Never heard that one before, nope, you're totally original, you are. What? You feel kinda aggravated that I'm mocking you? Why? I thought you said you laughed things off?


If this isn't the first time someone has told you to get over yourself, it might be time to actually look into it. As for the autograph, sure, PM me your address and I'll fire one off. Babies? I don't know, I'll have to check some of the laws about transporting biological material across state lines. Let me contact my lawyer and get back to you.

If the people you meet and the things that happen to you every day have absolutely no effect on your mood, then congratulations, you're a psychopath. You could also be suffering from SPD (schizoid personality disorder). Both cause a state of emotionlessness.


psychopathy is defined in psychiatry and clinical psychology as a condition characterized by lack of empathy or conscience, and poor impulse control or manipulative behaviors.

I don't really see how I fit into any of those. In fact, it would really seem that I'm the least psychopathic one in this thread.

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Belial
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Postby Belial » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:31 pm UTC

My logic is flawless, if you're disgruntled enough to actively steal large amounts of money from customers it's unlikely you have good personal skills.


Mmm. Yeah. Okay. Or maybe one just believes that assholes get what they deserve. A willingness to take passive-aggressive revenge on rude people doesn't really correlate to personal skills at all, especially not on a short term basis.

In fact, the knowledge that I'll be repaying you for your assholery later in our dealings makes me *more* willing to put up with your bullshit. Cheerier and happier salesperson!

I'm sorry, when does being rude give someone car blanch to steal from you? Are we confusing social norms and laws? This isn't Vietnam, there are rules here.


Where else but retail is it a good idea to treat someone like shit, and then *hand them your money* or trust them alone in a room *with your food*.

That's not just being rude, that's being critically stupid.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

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Lani
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Postby Lani » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:40 pm UTC

Wow, is it already time for another thread to start getting into childish insults again? I thought we had at least another couple days before that was due. My, how time flies.

*puts watch up to ear, taps it a few times*
- Lani

"They think they're so high and mighty, just because they never got caught driving without pants."

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Belial
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Postby Belial » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:47 pm UTC

::grumps::

They started it.

::points vaguely. Kicks dirt::
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

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Postby space_raptor » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:54 pm UTC

Lani: The mom of teh fora.

*runs away*
The drinking will continue until morale improves.

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Lani
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Postby Lani » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:54 pm UTC

(was more referring to the posts preceeding Beelie)
- Lani



"They think they're so high and mighty, just because they never got caught driving without pants."

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Belial
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Postby Belial » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:56 pm UTC

Oh. well, in that case, can I change my answer to....

::half-hides behind Lani's skirts, and points vaguely outward::

Yeah! Childish Insults! Shame!
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them


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