I Shouldn't Have To Say This

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Fire Brns
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Fire Brns » Fri May 03, 2013 5:13 am UTC

PM 2Ring wrote:
Fire Brns wrote:and validates false beliefs.

No, but it can certainly encourage / reinforce such false beliefs.
To the people who carry the false beliefs it validates them. I don't use "validate" as a universal truth as I would use the terms "true" and "false". Validation is a personal interpretation of complete and incomplete observations.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri May 03, 2013 5:38 am UTC

Puppyclaws wrote:
Fire Brns wrote:Regardless, when you present a stereotype as true you fabricate evidence for racism when the people believing it don't know the evidence is false. The only reason racism is wrong in the first place is because there is no evidence supporting it.


I am not sure you and felltir are using the same definition of racism. I certainly hope not, because otherwise what you are saying here...well. Racism is not merely racial stereotyping, although that is a thing that falls under the wide umbrella of racism. Stereotypes sometimes reflect a portion of certain realities, although typically in a surface way. That is not really a justification for either judging those folk who happen to match parts of them, or for holding blanket prejudices about the group in question. Noting the differences between groups nonjudgmentally is not racism.

Last I recall from a class on the subject at university, "racism" as understood by contemporary academics like George Fredrickson refers to racial essentialism; to quote Fredrickson, "It is when differences that might otherwise be considered ethnocultural are regarded as innate, indelible, and unchangeable that a racist attitude or ideology can be said to exist".

That is not in itself necessarily a morally reprehensible thing. If it were true that people of different races (if there was coherent biological sense to be made of "race" at all) were innately and unchangeably different in culture, it would not be a bad thing to recognize that fact. It would still be a bad thing to treat people badly on the basis of morally irrelevant such differences, but that's not what defines racism. Saying "black people naturally have better rhythm than white people" is racist, even though it's not in and of itself treating anybody poorly: it's just making a factually incorrect, racially essentialist claim. To assume that somebody had better rhythm because they were black, while still rejecting the supposition of innate/natural causes of that, would be racial prejudice, but not racism per se by this definition. Essentialism is an ontological mistake, prejudice is an epistemological mistake. Both of those are just intellectual errors though: it doesn't become a moral problem until you say "dancing is a lowly activity and the black aptitude for it is proof that they need more civilized white people to rule them" or something.

It's like differences between men and women as they relate to sexism. Statistically, men are bigger and stronger than women, on average. So it shouldn't be surprising that men are hired more readily and progress more rapidly in fields where strength is the determining quality of job performance. And that's not wrong. What would be wrong would be saying "you're a woman, you can't apply for this job". Or "strength is all that's important in general, so men are simply better than women and should rule over them". The same logic applies if it were to turn out that there were inherent mental differences, e.g. if men were really innately better at math or something, then there'd be nothing wrong with there being more men further along in math-heavy fields, but that wouldn't justify excluding women from the fields, or declaring women inferior in a social or political sense. Or for a better analogy to the above: say it turns out women really were innately better at reading and evoking emotions in other people. There'd be nothing wrong with acknowledging that if it were true. But there'd be something very wrong with saying that emotionality is a sign of weakness and therefore proof that women need men to rule over them.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby The Scyphozoa » Fri May 03, 2013 1:27 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Last I recall from a class on the subject at university, "racism" as understood by contemporary academics like George Fredrickson refers to racial essentialism; to quote Fredrickson, "It is when differences that might otherwise be considered ethnocultural are regarded as innate, indelible, and unchangeable that a racist attitude or ideology can be said to exist".
Every discussion about racism I've been involved with on this site (which is to say about two) has defined racism as systemic discrimination against minority races by the majority. Which isn't typically what the dictionaries say.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Carlington » Fri May 03, 2013 4:59 pm UTC

The definition of most -isms has shifted recently, with the rise in popularity and attention given to the cause of equal rights. I tend to assume in most cases that everybody is using the definition of x-ism as a systematic discrimination against x/to the benefit of not-x. In cases where it's not clear that everyone's using the same definition, I try to clarify.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Tomlidich the second » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:19 pm UTC

please, google your stupid problem before engaging half of the engineers in the office to google it for you. you are an engineer yourself, and should not have to be taught how to dig for information.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby lgw » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:28 pm UTC

"discriminate" is not always a bad word, especially in a technical context, it just means "recognize a difference" FFS

"retard" is not a bad word when used in it's non-slang, verb sense. If you've only heard "retard" as an insulting noun read a book.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby rieschen » Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:57 am UTC

You shouldn't be yelling out to someone while they're crossing a road ... to point out their supposed risky behaviour in traffic (headphones).

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Giant Speck » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:23 am UTC

Don't honk as you pass me when I'm riding my bicycle down the street. Even if you're trying to alert me to a danger or that I'm doing something wrong, you honking is going to force me to turn my head, which will completely distract me, cause me to lose balance, and may even cause me to hit whatever you were trying to warn me about.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Marvin » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:52 am UTC

Decide if you want to let me pass or pass in front of me, don't get in the middle of the road and then stop to think what to do...
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby maydayp » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:37 am UTC

if I couldn't hear you yell at me 9/10 in the last 4 years, why do you continue to yell at me (while in different rooms), and get angry when I don't hear you? (no I'm not deaf. my music is on and my door is closed 90% of the time)
yes, thinking that only (young) female celebrities have drinking/drug problems (ex/ Brittany Spears, etc.) is sexist.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby AYC » Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:26 am UTC

Quit returning so many goddamn things. Retail stores are not rent-a-centers; only buy something with the intention of keeping it.

This message brought to you by a disgruntled discount store worker who is sick of seeing five-year-old returns.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Thesh » Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:37 am UTC

My brother works for home depot and says people return annual plants because they died after fruiting.
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby AYC » Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:57 am UTC

Thesh wrote:My brother works for home depot and says people return annual plants because they died after fruiting.

My record for a return is when someone tried to return something from December 2006.

Earlier this year.

You have to wonder where the goddamn hell it's been all that time.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Xeio » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:21 pm UTC

AYC wrote:This message brought to you by a disgruntled discount store worker who is sick of seeing five-year-old returns.
Do... they expect a full return?

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Sheikh al-Majaneen » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:16 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:My brother works for home depot and says people return annual plants because they died after fruiting.

My mom works at home depot as well and says that a lot of contractors with charge their customers for tools they will need to complete the job, use the money to purchase the specific tools, and then return them when they are finished.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby AYC » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:10 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:
AYC wrote:This message brought to you by a disgruntled discount store worker who is sick of seeing five-year-old returns.
Do... they expect a full return?

If something's older than six months (meaning they usually don't have their receipt), I tell them:

A. We can't return it because it isn't in our system anymore, or
B. We can return it for store credit.

Most people with old stuff are happy with store credit, since they're frequent shoppers anyhow, but I handful are not happy no matter what.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Giant Speck » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:18 pm UTC

Sheikh al-Majaneen wrote:
Thesh wrote:My brother works for home depot and says people return annual plants because they died after fruiting.

My mom works at home depot as well and says that a lot of contractors with charge their customers for tools they will need to complete the job, use the money to purchase the specific tools, and then return them when they are finished.

Doesn't Home Depot have tool rental, though?
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Thesh » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:25 pm UTC

Tool rentals cost money. Buying something and returning it doesn't cost money.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby SurgicalSteel » Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:37 pm UTC

Sheikh al-Majaneen wrote:
Thesh wrote:My brother works for home depot and says people return annual plants because they died after fruiting.

My mom works at home depot as well and says that a lot of contractors with charge their customers for tools they will need to complete the job, use the money to purchase the specific tools, and then return them when they are finished.
Oh man, my mom used to work returns at Home Depot, and she had great/horrible stories about things people tried to return. Like the guy who tried to return a socket set he'd bought the other day. He didn't have a receipt, but insisted on cash instead of store credit. When they finally convinced him that no you don't fucking get cash, you get store credit because you don't have a receipt, they opened the case to find it filled with rain water and the sockets rusted to hell. I don't think he got the store credit.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby AYC » Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:38 pm UTC

SurgicalSteel wrote:
Sheikh al-Majaneen wrote:
Thesh wrote:My brother works for home depot and says people return annual plants because they died after fruiting.

My mom works at home depot as well and says that a lot of contractors with charge their customers for tools they will need to complete the job, use the money to purchase the specific tools, and then return them when they are finished.
Oh man, my mom used to work returns at Home Depot, and she had great/horrible stories about things people tried to return. Like the guy who tried to return a socket set he'd bought the other day. He didn't have a receipt, but insisted on cash instead of store credit. When they finally convinced him that no you don't fucking get cash, you get store credit because you don't have a receipt, they opened the case to find it filled with rain water and the sockets rusted to hell. I don't think he got the store credit.

Retail quickly turns you into in a misanthrope.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:46 am UTC

Going outside quickly turns me into a misanthrope.

Hell, staying inside and communicating remotely with any people other than the select few of my choosing quickly turns me into a misanthrope.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby pkcommando » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:53 pm UTC

AYC wrote:Quit returning so many goddamn things. Retail stores are not rent-a-centers; only buy something with the intention of keeping it.

This message brought to you by a disgruntled discount store worker who is sick of seeing five-year-old returns.

When my brother worked for Wal-Mart back in 2005, some guy had tried to return a dollhouse. He threw a fit when they wouldn't take it and ended up leaving it at the store.

The dollhouse: A)Had a price sticker on the box identifying another store entirely, B)Had a packaging design from the 70s, and C)According to one of my brother's managers who saw the box afterward - had a collector's value waaaaay beyond the money he was looking for. :lol:

A more serious take - one of the (many) reasons my father left K-Mart was the fact that they would take returns on push lawnmowers in October. Lawnmowers that had "stopped working". The mowers were always banged up, covered in grass and grime, and were either jammed from too much grass clogged under the deck or were simply out of gas. He even demonstrated to a manager that the mowers weren't broken. He was told to leave it alone. :roll:

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby SurgicalSteel » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:52 pm UTC

The best returns are when people return for stupid stuff like you described, you have to take the return, but you can't RTV it for whatever reason. You get a whatever that's good as new after a couple drops of oil or a re-potting.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby cplns » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:41 pm UTC

If a writing group unanimously votes to kick you out because of your irrational and erratic behavior, threatening to kill yourself because one of your characters was pregnant is not generally a way to prove us wrong.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Ashlah » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:25 pm UTC

Ugh, these retail horror stories are making me so glad that my stint is 2 years behind me. Working in the children's department I saw lots and lots of obviously washed, sometimes very used clothing returned. And we nearly always accepted it because they didn't want to piss off the customer. We also once had a customer try to return a lawn nativity set from probably 10 years before. Turns out a relative had kept it in her closet that long and had just recently gifted it to them. They were pretty disappointed they couldn't return it.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Sheikh al-Majaneen » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:14 am UTC

I once bought a nice shirt, washed it, put it on, realized that at some point "medium" started to include an XXL beer gut that I had hoped might shrink away completely after being washed (the extra fabric and space went to my lower back--everything else was perfect. It was beautiful in a masculine way, and fit everywhere else just right), and returned it.

Sorry, retail workers.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Shro » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:22 pm UTC

I've never had a problem returning anything, even without receipts, packaging, etc. I'm usually just really apologetic, and don't give the workers grief if they can't return or exchange them or anything. I consider it the reason I pay MSRP (or close to it) is so the retailer can deal with the manufacturer if anything goes wrong, and I can just get a working version of what I want, or if it's not what I want, I can return it.

So, it's really all about attitude. If you go in there feeling you're entitled to whatever you want, that doesn't endear you to anyone even if you're getting your money back. If you go in and make the retail worker feel like they're doing you a favor, that you're really grateful, you'll get your money back AND not come off as an asshole (and someone's day doesn't end up shittier because they had to interact with you).
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Wednesday » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:27 pm UTC

Last week I bought a professional kitchenaid lift mixer for under half of MSRP because it was marked down as a return for closeout, seemed to be missing the splatter guard, and was a bit bumped up. When I asked about the missing piece, I assumed it was nowhere to be found in the store, and I didn't make anyone go on a wild goose hunt for me. The clerks helping me were not only appreciative, they tried to take another 75% off of the already extremely marked down price. The point of sale system eventually locked them from discounting me much further than half off MSRP, but they did their best to get me a $400 mixer for less than $100. BE NICE TO RETAIL WORKERS AND WE WILL GO OUT OF OUR WAY FOR YOU.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby roband » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:49 pm UTC

Wednesday wrote:Last week I bought a professional kitchenaid lift mixer for under half of MSRP because it was marked down as a return for closeout, seemed to be missing the splatter guard, and was a bit bumped up. When I asked about the missing piece, I assumed it was nowhere to be found in the store, and I didn't make anyone go on a wild goose hunt for me. The clerks helping me were not only appreciative, they tried to take another 75% off of the already extremely marked down price. The point of sale system eventually locked them from discounting me much further than half off MSRP, but they did their best to get me a $400 mixer for less than $100. BE NICE TO RETAIL WORKERS AND WE WILL GO OUT OF OUR WAY FOR YOU.

Holy shit - do they have any more at that price and do they ship to the UK?

My gf has a kitchen-boner for kitchenaid mixers.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Wednesday » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:35 pm UTC

Yes, they have more, and no, not at that price. This mixer was on closeout and therefore not listed on the website nor available anywhere other than in person. That said, I am led to believe this mixer (Pro500) is returned relatively frequently because the lift and lock mechanisms aren't immediately obvious, and so people think they are defective. You may wish to check ebay, craigslist or your local equivalent for used or refurbished professional lift mixers, traditional "classic" stand mixers are less powerful and have smaller bowls. I use mine primarily for huge batches of dough as I am pretty exclusively a baker, if she doesn't do bread the smaller consumer models might be better for her (they are less expensive.)
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Tomlidich the second » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:37 pm UTC

IF YOU DID NOT WANT ME TO BE UPSET, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE F***ED MY BEST FRIEND.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Zarq » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:48 pm UTC

Am I missing something? Are best friends of friends also off-limits now?
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby PAstrychef » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:58 pm UTC

Depends on who is doing the fucking eh? The person you thought you were in an exclusive relationship with? The person who just dumped you? Your mom?
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Zarq » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:02 pm UTC

PAstrychef wrote:The person you thought you were in an exclusive relationship with?


Oh yeah, that makes sense.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby The Scyphozoa » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:52 pm UTC

If it's his mom, that might make sense too.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby eran_rathan » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:56 pm UTC

Tomlidich the second wrote:IF YOU DID NOT WANT ME TO BE UPSET, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE F***ED MY BEST FRIEND.

JESUS H. CHRIST


That guy, man, he get's in everyone's pants. There have been like, a dozen people who've been all, "Do you have a personal relationship with Jesus?" and I'm like, "Fuck no! Do you think I WANT an STI, man? Guy's been with like, everybody."
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Magnanimous » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:54 am UTC

I'm pretty sure Jesus would cure people's STIs and bless them before getting down to business.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Yoshisummons » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:51 pm UTC

He would even wash your hands and feet beforehand.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Роберт » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:03 pm UTC

Yoshisummons wrote:He would even wash your hands and feet beforehand.

No, just the feet. Not the hands or the face.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby You, sir, name? » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:11 pm UTC

Jesus would make a pretty awesome assassin.

He'd be like *bam*, and now your blood alcohol content is 14% by volume!
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