Salvia?

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Recce
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Postby Recce » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:51 am UTC

One of my friends tried it, and he claims he thought he was a chair for a little while. Which makes sense because right after he took it he started saying "oh my god... I'm a chair..." I don't know much about it other than it's supposed to have LSD-like qualities and it tastes horrible, so most people smoke it.

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QuantumTroll
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Postby QuantumTroll » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:45 am UTC

Recce wrote:...it tastes horrible, so most people smoke it.


The smoke smells terrible, too, and is pretty hot and harsh. And you have to hold it in a long time. Those are the reasons why I stopped using it. It's not a very nice substance...

Barbie wrote:Whether or not it is ethical to violate existing social contracts before they have officially been reformed is a whole other debate

I see responsible drug use as a form of civil disobedience. Drug abuse problems should be treated as the medical problem they are, not as crimes. Using safe drugs in positive ways and informing people is my way of contributing to promoting a sensible drug policy.

Putting people in jail makes drug problems worse and costs taxpayers money. Putting drugs out in the open where they can be taxed and quality controlled makes drugs safer, reduces crime, and gives the government a source of revenue for treating people with abuse problems.

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Postby Bondolon » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:05 am UTC

Barbie wrote:Whether or not it is ethical to violate existing social contracts before they have officially been reformed is a whole other debate :wink:


Imho, it takes a LOT of assumptions to even assert the existence of social contracts to begin with. I'd say that the social contract model could work in a world in which there are kingdoms and then wilderness. As is, our world is completely ruled, basically every square inch, by some government or another. By being held to a tacit social contract, I am being told that I must abide by it or else... where the else has no else. I just must abide by it. A tacit contract formed with a party that is unable to break the contract is commonly called slavery.

edit: You're right... this is a whole other debate. Time for some serious business.

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Barbie
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Postby Barbie » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:28 am UTC

I really was going to let you get back to discussing your Salvia experiences, but:
QuantumTroll wrote:Drug abuse problems should be treated as the medical problem they are, not as crimes.

By saying that drug abuse is a medical problem, you seem to be saying that some people just have a tendency to abuse drugs, and can't help it. So as a society, what do we do for those people? Don't let them use drugs, I guess. What if most people in society have this medical problem? Well, then I guess we'd just have to make a rule that applied to most people... Oh wait... That's a law, isn't it...

Also, couldn't you also say that the propensity to murder is a medical problem too? If we adopted the rehabilitation approach for drugs, wouldn't we have to treat murderers the same way? Couldn't you say their mind-set is just a product of their biology and upbringing? That involves a lot less personal choice than choosing to do drugs. I'm sure many of them would benefit from some psychological counseling, and become productive members of society. ...Meet you in Serious Business?
Putting drugs out in the open where they can be taxed and quality controlled makes drugs safer, reduces crime, and gives the government a source of revenue for treating people with abuse problems.

Do you think society could handle that at this point? I think you would have to make a lot of people start taking responsibility for their own actions before you could legalize drugs. I'm sure the complimentary rehab wouldn't help people recognize that they are responsible for the consequences of their actions.

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Postby Green9090 » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:05 am UTC

Drug control is so badly done right now that people who want drugs get them. Legalizing them wouldn't make very many more people take drugs, and it would make for a lot less killings than illegal drug trade. I think that drug laws are amoral, considering what they cause.

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arbivark
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Postby arbivark » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:18 am UTC

Two weeks ago I'd never heard of salvia (except as a family of flowering plants, not the one here.) A week ago I read a great article about it, maybe in GQ, or some other unexpected place. Haven't found the article online yet.
Saturday I was offered some, passed, watched a guy have a salvia trip.
I own a house at which there are parties most saturday nights, fairly drug friendly.
Myself, lotsa coffee, three gin and tonics on monday night (it's late monday night now), currently in the off cycle of my on again off again involvement with pot. Tried most of the drugs I could find back in the late 70s.
I spent years and $$$ to get a college education, which I've forgotten most of, so I'm cautious about scrambling my brain with the latest fad.
I would have been more careful about my acid experiements if I had known I had mental health issues.
I guess my beef with the way salvia is being marketed and used is that it's too casual. The central american shamans who grow the stuff understand that's it heavy and not a recreational fun drug.


The June 2007 issue of GQ magazine, which is now on newsstands, contains an
excellent article about Salvia divinorum by Christopher Ketcham. It is one
of the best I have seen published in the popular press. I encourage all
salvia enthusiasts to read it.

http://druglaw.typepad.com/drug_law_blo ... index.html
10 minute utube video of salvia trip:
http://giantmonster.com/2007/06/08/heroic-salvia-dose/
http://blogs.wsj.com/informedreader/2007/06/01/

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rockintom99
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Postby rockintom99 » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:28 pm UTC

stuck wrote:So, has the OP tried salvia yet?


Heh, a bit. I'm trying it in increasing amounts (so far, only very minor hallucinations), because, again, I am nervous of it. I've had a few bad experiences with mushrooms...

And people saying it has a bad taste/smell? Psh. I really quite like it. But to each their own, no?
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Postby TheTankengine » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:53 pm UTC

All this discussion has made me reconsider salvia. I have decided that I am going to pick some up at the flea market this weekend. I'll probably buy a new pipe, too :D
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Belial
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Postby Belial » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:26 pm UTC

rockintom99 wrote:I've had a few bad experiences with mushrooms...



....you went to astro-world, didn't you?

By saying that drug abuse is a medical problem, you seem to be saying that some people just have a tendency to abuse drugs, and can't help it. So as a society, what do we do for those people? Don't let them use drugs, I guess. What if most people in society have this medical problem? Well, then I guess we'd just have to make a rule that applied to most people... Oh wait... That's a law, isn't it...


Make the distinction between drug use and drug abuse. If you are addicted and can't quit, that's a medical problem. If you just use, that's...an interesting saturday night. By treating the addiction like a medical problem, you can then address the people who need help, while letting the people who *don't* have a problem continue to use in peace.

And yes, most people with addictions have to forgo the object of their addiction entirely. So no more drugs. Same with alchohol: you very seldom get to go from a rock-bottom alchoholic to a weekend social drinker. When it gets that bad, it's all or nothing.

That said, enforcing that sort of prohibition on the whole of society because some people have a problem...is like outlawing donuts because some people are diabetic.

Or, for that matter, like prohibiting alchohol. Which worked out beautifully for society as a whole when we tried it.
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rockintom99
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Postby rockintom99 » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:44 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
rockintom99 wrote:I've had a few bad experiences with mushrooms...



....you went to astro-world, didn't you?


Uh. I dunno. Mostly, everything kindof turned into needles and freaked me the hell out, as I am a huge needlephobe.

After the peak, though, I usually do okay on them.
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jessebob
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Salvia?

Postby jessebob » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:30 pm UTC

I dont know if this applies to the food section. Salvia divinorium. Would someone care to explain it to me?

If someone takes a drug test after smoking salvia, would they test positive?
I know its a legal grey matter in many places, but whats the general consensus?

Merged with the topic of the exact same title.
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Re: Salvia?

Postby Rehash » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:12 pm UTC

Most tests need to look for tell-tale traces of certain drugs to test positive. Given that Salvia is a) not widely used, b) not widely illegal, I would have serious doubts that any drug test would look for any traces of that specific drug.

My personal Salvia experience goes along the lines of this; nothing special. Yeah, I was out of my head for a while, felt infinitely small, and spiritually aware. I could feel the same with a really good conversation or a pink floyd album. I say you try it. As always the basic safety rules apply. Get a babysitter, have food/water nearby, have something that grounds/calms you with you. While you're pushing mental envelopes you want to keep your physical self safe. Have fun.
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Shadic
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Re: Salvia?

Postby Shadic » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:25 pm UTC

From what I've seen of other people, it mixes oddly with alcohol, making the effects longer.

Then again, I've never smoked it (Or at all,) and it was just watching two others trip out for about half an hour.. After which, they claimed it never lasted more than five minutes on them.

Meh.

mxyzptlk
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Re: Salvia?

Postby mxyzptlk » Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:39 am UTC

I've tried salvia 3 times now, and have yet to have a breakthrough. The closest I've come is a slight feeling of altered gravity.. a mild sensation that I was falling to the right, instead of down towards my feet. I found that it's pretty harsh to smoke, much worse than plain ol' weed and since the effects are so short lived, as described by those who HAVE broken through, I'm not really sure it's worth the trouble. I doubt I'll ever try it again and I wouldn't really recommend it to anyone else.

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jessebob
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Re: Salvia?

Postby jessebob » Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:06 am UTC

i have never smoked pot. (although im open to it) never smoked a cigg. only ever been drunk once but alcohol is becoming more common. one of my friends said it made quote "HARDCORE hallucinations". is this something to be afraid of?

what would the legality be in some place strict like singapore?

as i said earlier, what abotu drug testing?
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jessebob
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Re:

Postby jessebob » Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:19 am UTC

Narsil wrote:I don't like chemicals that alter one's state of mind. It seems wrong. I don't like thinking that, for even a second, I could do something that I wouldn't choose to do under normal circumstances. It's like handing someone else the controls. It's weird.


This is the same reason that I strongly dislike taking fully legal medication (like advil etc) because I feel like I would be less in control of myself. I once saw my mother take an Ambien, then not go to bed immediately. She was stumbling around the house and almost fell. That scared me a lot more than I would be scared if my friend were to smoke weed. (this all kinda is badly phrased)

My point being: a plant seems in many ways more safe than a factory produced drug that has goodness knows what in it.
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Re: Re:

Postby Fossa » Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:45 pm UTC

jessebob wrote:My point being: a plant seems in many ways more safe than a factory produced drug that has goodness knows what in it.


So... science = goodness then? Alright, glad we're in agreement.

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Re: Re:

Postby bigglesworth » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:22 pm UTC

jessebob wrote:My point being: a plant seems in many ways more safe than a factory produced drug that has goodness knows what in it.


Bwahahaha ahahahahah ahahahah

*draws breath*


ahahahahahah ohhh... ahah
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Re: Salvia?

Postby existential_elevator » Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:09 pm UTC

what he said...

...also, thanks, I guess; it's pretty interesting to hear people's experiences. I've never really done anything, largely because uppers/downers don't appeal, and a lot of the side effects of hallucinogens don't sound so great. This one, however, could be something I'd consider.

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Re: Re:

Postby Noc » Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:23 pm UTC

bigglesworth wrote:
jessebob wrote:My point being: a plant seems in many ways more safe than a factory produced drug that has goodness knows what in it.


Bwahahaha ahahahahah ahahahah

*draws breath*


ahahahahahah ohhh... ahah

Heh. Heheh. Heheheheh.

. . .

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Okay, so assuming we're talking about legal medications, as opposed to illegal narcotics (which can be cut with god knows what) . . . we DO, you know, know everything that goes into them. We might not know the effects of everything, but the contents of medications tend to be pretty well documented, and getting FDA approval is a pretty long and arduous process. So if you're taking a medication, you know exactly what's in it, and can (with a little research) look at the history of the medication and the studies and data and what-have-you surrounding it, including any allegations of nasty side-effects or other resulting abnormalities.

On the other hand, a plant is a plant. Plants to not have to get FDA approval to grow, and, when you get down to it, you have no fucking idea what's in it. In fact, if a plant's got a chemical in it, it's more likely to be poisonous than not; since if it's a common enough trait, it's likely been selected for because it's a defense mechanism. To fuck up anyone stupid enough to eat it. Even if you could get something useful (or entertaining) from it, you're dealing with a completely undocumented, well, plant. With "goodness knows what's in it." Most of the information you CAN find on it is likely to be anecdotal and contradictory; the results of individual experimenters or vague, traditional recipes.

Also, nearly every nasty or deadly poison that mankind has learned to manufacture and use . . . came from nature first.

So . . . no. Not at all. Not. At. All.
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jessebob
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Re: Salvia?

Postby jessebob » Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:05 pm UTC

i just got pwned didnt i?
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Re: Salvia?

Postby bigglesworth » Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:53 pm UTC

But you're a real man for admitting it.
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Re: Salvia?

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:56 pm UTC

jessebob wrote:i just got pwned didnt i?

Nine days ago, but don't get up.

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Dr.Robert
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Re: Salvia?

Postby Dr.Robert » Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:26 pm UTC

Never done Salvia yet, but I'm willing to try. It is wild stuff indeed, i've heard.

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Re: Salvia?

Postby nsmjohn » Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:33 pm UTC

Salvia... I have taken it twice and "broke through" once. The first time the effects lasted for around a half hour. My body felt weird and I was getting some strange visuals and also then sense that I was about to merge with the ceiling but I was 'aware' of what was going on around me.

The second time was the time I "broke through". The hallucination only lasted <10 minutes according to my friends. It was... an interesting experience, one that I have been hesitant to repeat. Everyone's experience is unique and can be good or bad. Mine was "freaky". From what I remember I was in some sort of void for an indeterminate amount of time, then all I remember is running with people chasing me yelling something to the effect of "how did he get out". Next, I come to a chainlink fence and start clawing my way through (my body was actually going through the fence), the next thing I know I am clawing my way out of the couch and I realize my friends are all around me. According to my friends I never moved except for trying to stand up once or twice. The after effects are somewhat similar to my first experience and only last for 30 minutes to an hour.
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Re: Salvia?

Postby clintonius » Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:50 pm UTC

What form did you take it in?
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Re: Salvia?

Postby nsmjohn » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:02 pm UTC

clintonius wrote:What form did you take it in?

I am not sure what strength it was (maybe between 10x-20x), but it looked like tiny black flakes. We just loaded personal hits into a bong that just so happened to be near by, took a proper hit (light, drag, and clear chamber without taking a breath), and held it in until it did it's thing.
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Re: Salvia?

Postby PhantomReality » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:29 pm UTC

I have tried many many many drugs. Salvia was my least favorite. Nobody enjoys spinning through nothingness spread out over 10 dimensions. The human mind doesn't deserve to be subjected to the intense drug that is salvia. It is terrible. Don't ever trying it. In fact try any drug BUT it.
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Re: Salvia?

Postby nsmjohn » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:41 pm UTC

PhantomReality wrote:I have tried many many many drugs. Salvia was my least favorite. Nobody enjoys spinning through nothingness spread out over 10 dimensions. The human mind doesn't deserve to be subjected to the intense drug that is salvia. It is terrible. Don't ever trying it. In fact try any drug BUT it.

Actually, despite my experience, I am still tempted for round 2. I have had worse experiences with weed.
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