Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby SurgicalSteel » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:55 am UTC

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Sandry wrote:
kernelpanic wrote:To the people that say "I only eat organic", I answer with "Sure, no more water for the rest of your life and a couple of cyanide pills. That's what you want, isn't it?"

Look, this side of the argument is just as asinine as the "all natural" type advertising.
Can you explain the nature of your statement? I'm a bit confused.
I think she's saying that the idea that all people that eat organic food are cultists is just as dumb as the idea that all things artificial are bad. I agree.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:58 am UTC

Or the "well, TECHNICALLY, organic means anything with carbon in it" side, perhaps.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby jerome_bc » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:34 am UTC

There are good reasons for eating organic food. "ARTIFICIAL = BAD!!!" is not necessarily one of them, and you may not agree with everything that goes with the 'organic' label (I certainly don't), but the fact remains that there are valid reasons for wanting to eat organic food.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby The Scyphozoa » Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:00 am UTC

Sir_Elderberry wrote:Or the "well, TECHNICALLY, organic means anything with carbon in it" side, perhaps.

Yum, diamonds!

I mean, ow, diamonds!
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Magnanimous » Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:56 am UTC

Organic food is actually pretty good... Ever since I moved to Seattle, I kind of got swept up in the whole craze. I wouldn't say local organically-grown vegetables are necessarily better than Imported Food of Death, but they're rarely worse.

That's not considering the price, that is.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Sandry » Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:37 am UTC

Sir_Elderberry wrote:Or the "well, TECHNICALLY, organic means anything with carbon in it" side, perhaps.

Mostly this, though, yes, the cultist bit, too.

Yes, re-purposing the meaning of a word that was already well set up is a little silly.

On the other hand, strictly adhering to a definition you know is not the intended one is just juvenile.

Also, making folks you don't see eye to eye with out to be nutjobs who are simple in the head is... the opposite of refreshing.

Rather than playing around with words in stupid ways, I would like to see folks actually come up with useful dietary ideas or plans. I mean this both to the "all natural!" crew who make things with "all natural" ingredients isolated from their usual state to pull out one specific chemical or flavour, then stick them back together to create some wholly new foodstuff as though that's in some way a healthful and natural thing to do to one's food, and to the folks who are all, "oh, you care about anything? Rather than making any even vaguely effort-requiring rebuttal about why I'm not doing anything like you, or just engaging in the topic in any meaningful way, I'll just latch on to this trivial word argument that's essentially me being deliberately obtuse."

Sorry, I didn't mean to get quite that worked up, just if I had a dollar for everyone who said something that essentially translated to "organic? So you just like chowing down on carbon atoms, then? Hurr hurr hurr!" I wouldn't need a job. Hence my being a bit sick of it.

To clarify - I am not actually hugely pro-organic. More pro-local. But I do care about my food, and I work in retail for an employer who does engage in these kinds of areas. So y'know. It comes up for me a fair bit.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:45 am UTC

Would it be worth not having to work if you had to troll through the interwebs looking for and reading organic food flamewars?
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Sandry » Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:48 am UTC

PhoenixEnigma wrote:Would it be worth not having to work if you had to troll through the interwebs looking for and reading organic food flamewars?

I think you may have actually suggested something which would be inherently more frustrating than my current job. :P
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Triangle_Man » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:07 am UTC

Sandry wrote:
PhoenixEnigma wrote:Would it be worth not having to work if you had to troll through the interwebs looking for and reading organic food flamewars?

I think you may have actually suggested something which would be inherently more frustrating than my current job. :P


I don't know. I'd find it quite amusing, to be honest.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Robert'); DROP TABLE *; » Sat Dec 04, 2010 9:34 pm UTC

annoying ad.png
I don't THINK a Flash game can do wind effects.
annoying ad.png (43.86 KiB) Viewed 6450 times


OK, maybe not douchebaggery, but still.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby oagersnap » Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:23 pm UTC

Robert'); DROP TABLE *; wrote:
annoying ad.png


OK, maybe not douchebaggery, but still.


Maybe it's so heavy on the CPU that the fan is going to go into overdrive?

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Triangle_Man » Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:46 pm UTC

oagersnap wrote:
Robert'); DROP TABLE *; wrote:
annoying ad.png


OK, maybe not douchebaggery, but still.


Maybe it's so heavy on the CPU that the fan is going to go into overdrive?


I'm no expert on computers, but I think that the CPU would melt down into slag before it got the fan to create anything resembling a gale-force wind.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Spots » Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:53 pm UTC

GhostWolfe wrote:Here, it is common to show the amounts of certain contents per serving size and per 100g/mL/etc, cause consumers apparently can't do maths.
/angell

Do you also have that little sign on the bottle that says 500ml=2x250 ml? We don't have it here, I saw it somewhere abroad and thought "Oh, no kidding?!"

phlip wrote:... chemicals don't behave differently depending on how you get them.

This is not entirely true. One example are the cis/trans isomers, which can exist in different ratios depending on the source of the compound and they do behave differently. The second is that many of the natural flavors and scents are made up of several (or up to several hundred) different compounds. If the aroma is artificial, it's usually just one dominant compound (perhaps even one that's not present in the natural aroma, but is most similar). It's a good compromise, if you consider the cost, but the end result usually not identical to using natural ingredients.

Triangle_Man wrote:I'm no expert on computers, but I think that the CPU would melt down into slag before it got the fan to create anything resembling a gale-force wind.

Yeah, but they never said anything about keeping your CPU working. ;)
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby GenericPseudonym » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:54 am UTC

Spots wrote:[...]
phlip wrote:... chemicals don't behave differently depending on how you get them.

This is not entirely true. One example are the cis/trans isomers, which can exist in different ratios depending on the source of the compound and they do behave differently. The second is that many of the natural flavors and scents are made up of several (or up to several hundred) different compounds. If the aroma is artificial, it's usually just one dominant compound (perhaps even one that's not present in the natural aroma, but is most similar). It's a good compromise, if you consider the cost, but the end result usually not identical to using natural ingredients. [...]


He was talking about specific chemicals compounds, not the ones that are almost the same, but the difference between natural and artificial flavoring in your example is that they usually contain different chemicals... The thing with cis & trans isomers would be a valid point if my hastily acquired wikipedia knowledge didn't point out to me that separating them via distillation would almost always be possible.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby phlip » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:25 am UTC

Spots wrote:
phlip wrote:... chemicals don't behave differently depending on how you get them.

This is not entirely true. One example are the cis/trans isomers, which can exist in different ratios depending on the source of the compound and they do behave differently. The second is that many of the natural flavors and scents are made up of several (or up to several hundred) different compounds. If the aroma is artificial, it's usually just one dominant compound (perhaps even one that's not present in the natural aroma, but is most similar). It's a good compromise, if you consider the cost, but the end result usually not identical to using natural ingredients.

In both cases, those are different chemicals, not the same chemicals from different sources...

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Cloud Walker » Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:33 am UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:
Sir_Elderberry wrote:Or the "well, TECHNICALLY, organic means anything with carbon in it" side, perhaps.

Yum, diamonds!

I mean, ow, diamonds!


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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby GhostWolfe » Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:05 am UTC

Revlon "Photo ready" foundation. Promises you that "airbrushed look". Maybe it's just me, but I don't think we should be aiming to look that fake in our day-to-day lives.

/angell
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Whelan » Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:36 pm UTC

GenericPseudonym wrote:
Spots wrote:[...]
phlip wrote:... chemicals don't behave differently depending on how you get them.

This is not entirely true. One example are the cis/trans isomers, which can exist in different ratios depending on the source of the compound and they do behave differently. The second is that many of the natural flavors and scents are made up of several (or up to several hundred) different compounds. If the aroma is artificial, it's usually just one dominant compound (perhaps even one that's not present in the natural aroma, but is most similar). It's a good compromise, if you consider the cost, but the end result usually not identical to using natural ingredients. [...]


He was talking about specific chemicals compounds, not the ones that are almost the same, but the difference between natural and artificial flavoring in your example is that they usually contain different chemicals... The thing with cis & trans isomers would be a valid point if my hastily acquired wikipedia knowledge didn't point out to me that separating them via distillation would almost always be possible.

As well as E/Z isomers (As is the newer name for cis/trans) you can also get chiral isomers, which present a similar problem to the cis/trans but afaik without the ability to distill them off.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby kernelpanic » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:32 pm UTC

SurgicalSteel wrote:
Triangle_Man wrote:
Sandry wrote:
kernelpanic wrote:To the people that say "I only eat organic", I answer with "Sure, no more water for the rest of your life and a couple of cyanide pills. That's what you want, isn't it?"

Look, this side of the argument is just as asinine as the "all natural" type advertising.
Can you explain the nature of your statement? I'm a bit confused.
I think she's saying that the idea that all people that eat organic food are cultists is just as dumb as the idea that all things artificial are bad. I agree.

What she's saying is that I'm being stupid and pedantic because I know exactly what you mean if you say organic. Which is true, but not as funny.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby KrO2 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:09 am UTC

But that's not what someone means when they say organic. You know what the word organic means, sure, presumably better than they do, but you both know what the word is used to mean in that context. I don't like word drift much either, but I think that's all this is.
Also, by the chemical definition of organic (or real definition, if you prefer) water would be out but cyanide would not be mandatory. "I only eat organic" does not mean "I'll eat anything if it's organic" regardless of definition.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby bigglesworth » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:19 am UTC

The chemical definition of organic is wonky anyway, and a corruption of its original meaning if you want to go down that route.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Giant Speck » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:28 am UTC

Organic food is made from livers, hearts, kidneys and spleens.

ORGANIC FOOD IS PEOPLE! PEOOOOPLE!
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby jerome_bc » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:08 am UTC

OT: I find it interesting that in french organic food is called biological food ("biologique", not "organique").

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:07 am UTC

Medicare Supplement Ad: "Half a million seniors can't be wrong!"

Medical News Today: "According to the report, 5.1 million U.S. residents older than age 65 have Alzheimer's."
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby oagersnap » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:55 am UTC

jerome_bc wrote:OT: I find it interesting that in french organic food is called biological food ("biologique", not "organique").


In Danish it's ecological (økologisk), which makes a lot more sense than the other two words for it IMO.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby a_fuzzyduck » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:32 pm UTC

Sir_Elderberry wrote:Medicare Supplement Ad: "Half a million seniors can't be wrong!"

Medical News Today: "According to the report, 5.1 million U.S. residents older than age 65 have Alzheimer's."


But what if half a million other seniors hold the opposite view? :D
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby tastelikecoke » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:01 pm UTC

a_fuzzyduck wrote:
Sir_Elderberry wrote:Medicare Supplement Ad: "Half a million seniors can't be wrong!"

Medical News Today: "According to the report, 5.1 million U.S. residents older than age 65 have Alzheimer's."


But what if half a million other seniors hold the opposite view? :D

Either way, they both have Alzheimer's.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Armadillo Al » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:34 pm UTC

GhostWolfe wrote:Revlon "Photo ready" foundation. Promises you that "airbrushed look". Maybe it's just me, but I don't think we should be aiming to look that fake in our day-to-day lives.

/angell

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby H2SO4 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:35 pm UTC

tastelikecoke wrote:Either way, they both have Alzheimer's.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby felltir » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:58 pm UTC

Hey, guys? Not cool.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby tastelikecoke » Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:32 am UTC

Giant Speck wrote:Organic food is made from livers, hearts, kidneys and spleens.

ORGANIC FOOD IS PEOPLE! PEOOOOPLE!

I've never tasted a spleen before. Do they sell those in meatshops?

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby apricity » Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:49 am UTC

Let's keep the joking about incurable diseases to a minimum.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby OBrien » Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:08 pm UTC

Armadillo Al wrote:
GhostWolfe wrote:Revlon "Photo ready" foundation. Promises you that "airbrushed look". Maybe it's just me, but I don't think we should be aiming to look that fake in our day-to-day lives.

/angell

It's just you.

Hey, I also preffer people to look like people, rather than realistic-looking mannequins.

EDIT: Note to self: Would Photo-ready foundation make a crappy mannequin look more realistic? Time to ask Science!
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby EmptySet » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:24 am UTC

OBrien wrote:
Armadillo Al wrote:
GhostWolfe wrote:Revlon "Photo ready" foundation. Promises you that "airbrushed look". Maybe it's just me, but I don't think we should be aiming to look that fake in our day-to-day lives.

/angell

It's just you.

Hey, I also preffer people to look like people, rather than realistic-looking mannequins.

EDIT: Note to self: Would Photo-ready foundation make a crappy mannequin look more realistic? Time to ask Science!


This is apparently a product designed to make you appear lifeless, fake, and generic. I can only assume it makes mannequins look even more like mannequins.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Sandry » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:10 am UTC

EmptySet wrote:I can only assume it makes mannequins look even more like mannequins.

Like photoshopped mannequins, actually. "Look at that! That blush is totally clone stamped onto both cheeks! And that eyeshadow is just a gradient-fill blue at 80% opacity!"
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby a_fuzzyduck » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:28 pm UTC

EmptySet wrote:
OBrien wrote:
Armadillo Al wrote:
GhostWolfe wrote:Revlon "Photo ready" foundation. Promises you that "airbrushed look". Maybe it's just me, but I don't think we should be aiming to look that fake in our day-to-day lives.

/angell

It's just you.

Hey, I also preffer people to look like people, rather than realistic-looking mannequins.

EDIT: Note to self: Would Photo-ready foundation make a crappy mannequin look more realistic? Time to ask Science!


This is apparently a product designed to make you appear lifeless, fake, and generic. I can only assume it makes mannequins look even more like mannequins.


HAY IT MEANS PEOPLE SEE YOU AS AN OBJECT AND TREAT YOU AS ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Giant Speck » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:15 am UTC

The woman in the "World's Best Cat Litter" commercial is ANNOYING.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby faranim » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:45 pm UTC

So as I was driving home from work, I heard this ad on the radio. It opens with the announcer guy explaining how Cell Phone company ads are so confusing. They all claim to be "3x as fast" or "10x as fast" as everyone else. He then goes on to say something like "...you only need to know that AT&T has the fastest wireless broadband network"

Perhaps I am biased because I despise AT&T, and I think their network is garbage. But it seems pretty stupid to mock cell phone ads in a cell phone ad.

Also (unrelated):
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Giant Speck » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:43 am UTC

faranim wrote:But it seems pretty stupid to mock cell phone ads in a cell phone ad.

Remember the tampon commercials that mocked tampon commercials?
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oblivimous
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:36 pm UTC
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby oblivimous » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:07 am UTC

I am confused by commercials for televisions that show you how good the picture on the television looks.

Let's get that tv, the picture looks way better than ours does! o wait...


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