Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby EmptySet » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:43 am UTC

HungryHobo wrote:Gillette sell mens razors which give no better shave than womens but do cut you more...

...

On a side note I've been converted to womens razors, they're simply better made, cut you less and last longer.


...really? I've never used women's razors, but I was always under the impression that most of them are exactly the same as the normal ones, except for being pink and costing twice as much. I know several women who just use the regular razors precisely because they're the same thing. I've even heard some girls claim that razors marketed at women tend to perform worse because the emphasis is on making a sparkly pink handle (with glitter! And flowers!) upon which a crappy disposable razor is then stuck as an afterthought.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Cathy » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:47 am UTC

It kind of depends. The crappy disposable ones are still crappy and disposable, but my skin is incredibly terribly sensitive to shaving and moving up a dollar/package to a venus plus or whatnot has really truly helped my dermatologic issues.

But really, I have to re-write this because nobody sees it when it's on the last page!

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby HungryHobo » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:45 am UTC

I've found that my girlfriends venus gives just as close a shave as the best mens razor I could find while cutting me less. They're a little more expensive but last a lot longer, I suppose that when they're made to do whole legs they can't blunt too fast.

My girlfriend tried using my mens razor once but vowed not to ever do so again because of "all the blood"

the really crappy disposable ones like this: http://www.esquire.com/cm/esquire/image ... 737737.jpg are universally crappy be they for men or women.

hers also comes with a cool little holder thing which sticks to the wall of the shower. Why don't mens? As far as I know shaving during your morning shower is the norm for guys so I don't see why they're not included.
Just manly the holder up a little by adding spikes or making it squirt acid in your eyes and it'd sell great with guys.

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I feel this is something that the advertising companies will inevitably make a try at sooner or later. I can imagine it now, they'd run a "not for girls" campaign then run a parallel campaign in media popular with the demographic who are bothered by the "not for girls" campaigns featuring a strong independent woman beating the crap out of some patriarchal jerk who's trying to enforce the "not for girls" sticker, taking the chocolate/crisps and shouting "it's not for girls but it is for women!" then taking a satisfying bite or otherwise using the product.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Grop » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:34 pm UTC

HungryHobo wrote:As far as I know shaving during your morning shower is the norm for guys


This is news to me. Also, there is no mirror that I can use from my shower.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby HungryHobo » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:24 pm UTC

Can I diverge slightly to Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in the news? or would I have to start a new topic.

because the recent crap with Jeremy clarkson and the "strikers should be shot" thing in the UK is driving me nuts. it's just so stupid.


Matt Baker [presenter]: Well Jeremy, schools, hospitals, airports, even driving tests, have all been affected. Do you think the strikes have been a good idea?

Jeremy Clarkson [guest]: I think they have been fantastic. Absolutely. London today has just been empty. Everybody stayed at home, you can whizz about, restaurants are empty.

...

Jeremy Clarkson: But we have to balance this though, because this is the BBC.

Matt Baker: Yes, exactly.

Jeremy Clarkson: Frankly, I'd have them all shot. I would take them outside and execute them in front of their families. I mean, how dare they go on strike when they have these gilt-edged pensions that are going to be guaranteed while the rest of us have to work for a living?

Matt Baker: Well, on that note of balancing an opinion, of course those are Jeremy's views.

Alex Jones: Only Jeremy's views.

Jeremy Clarkson: They're not.

and all I see, all I see is news clips and youtube clips of the single "Frankly, I'd have them all shot." quote without the context showing that that's clearly wasn't his actual opinion. And people have been having fits over how they think he hates the strikers. it's just so stupid. the people getting offended about it are so stupid. He's taking the piss out of the BBC's policies on the requirement for "balance" .

Grop wrote:This is news to me. Also, there is no mirror that I can use from my shower.

I usually shave by feel, a mirror doesn't seem much use once you're used to doing it on automatic.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:37 pm UTC

Grop wrote:
HungryHobo wrote:As far as I know shaving during your morning shower is the norm for guys


This is news to me. Also, there is no mirror that I can use from my shower.

I do it. And I have Friendly Muttonchops. I just wait until I'm out and can use a mirror for the edging of it, but for the rest of it? I don't need to see myself to shave that.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby pseudoidiot » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:49 pm UTC

Shave after shower, yes. Never shaved in the shower (except for my head when I was bald). And I can't even remember the last time I took a shower in the morning.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby The Scyphozoa » Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:38 pm UTC

That whole "it wasn't actually his opinion" thing is like some republican candidate's ad that ridicules Obama for saying, "If we keep talking about the economy, we're going to lose." He was actually quoting McCain when he said that
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby podbaydoor » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:26 pm UTC

No, he was quoting a person who was associated with the McCain campaign. So, yeah.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby RoadieRich » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:53 pm UTC

HungryHobo wrote:Can I diverge slightly to Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in the news? or would I have to start a new topic.

because the recent crap with Jeremy clarkson and the "strikers should be shot" thing in the UK is driving me nuts. it's just so stupid.


Matt Baker [presenter]: Well Jeremy, schools, hospitals, airports, even driving tests, have all been affected. Do you think the strikes have been a good idea?

Jeremy Clarkson [guest]: I think they have been fantastic. Absolutely. London today has just been empty. Everybody stayed at home, you can whizz about, restaurants are empty.

...

Jeremy Clarkson: But we have to balance this though, because this is the BBC.

Matt Baker: Yes, exactly.

Jeremy Clarkson: Frankly, I'd have them all shot. I would take them outside and execute them in front of their families. I mean, how dare they go on strike when they have these gilt-edged pensions that are going to be guaranteed while the rest of us have to work for a living?

Matt Baker: Well, on that note of balancing an opinion, of course those are Jeremy's views.

Alex Jones: Only Jeremy's views.

Jeremy Clarkson: They're not.

and all I see, all I see is news clips and youtube clips of the single "Frankly, I'd have them all shot." quote without the context showing that that's clearly wasn't his actual opinion. And people have been having fits over how they think he hates the strikers. it's just so stupid. the people getting offended about it are so stupid. He's taking the piss out of the BBC's policies on the requirement for "balance" .

Do you have a cite for that? I've got friends who would be interested.

Edit: found it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15993558
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby EmptySet » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:49 am UTC

Grop wrote:
HungryHobo wrote:As far as I know shaving during your morning shower is the norm for guys


This is news to me. Also, there is no mirror that I can use from my shower.


Likewise. I was under the impression that shaving at the basin was the norm.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby SurgicalSteel » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:22 am UTC

Same here. I know plenty of guys who've tried shaving in the shower, and found it difficult and annoying (myself included), but I don't know anyone who does it regularly.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Plasma Man » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:57 pm UTC

With the Jeremy Clarkson thing: It is not OK to incite murder, even if you go "Lol, just joking" afterwards. Just because he is routinely offensive, it does not mean that he should be allowed to get away with it.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Ashlah » Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:19 pm UTC

My boyfriend shaves in the shower every morning, and finds it much easier than at the sink. The skin gets less irritated when it been under warm water for a while, in his experience. The same is true for me shaving my legs, and I think that's actually why he tried it in the first place.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Kewangji » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:41 pm UTC

Plasma Man wrote:With the Jeremy Clarkson thing: It is not OK to incite murder, even if you go "Lol, just joking" afterwards. Just because he is routinely offensive, it does not mean that he should be allowed to get away with it.

He did it beforehand, though. </anal>
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Ptolom » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:57 pm UTC

Plasma Man wrote:With the Jeremy Clarkson thing: It is not OK to incite murder, even if you go "Lol, just joking" afterwards. Just because he is routinely offensive, it does not mean that he should be allowed to get away with it.

Everybody jokes about murder though. It's hilarious.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby charliepanayi » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:05 pm UTC

Plasma Man wrote:With the Jeremy Clarkson thing: It is not OK to incite murder, even if you go "Lol, just joking" afterwards. Just because he is routinely offensive, it does not mean that he should be allowed to get away with it.


I'm astonished that anyone takes anything Jeremy Clarkson seriously these days, the guy's a professional troll.

I'm off now to despair over the batch of Christmas ads on TV here this year.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby felltir » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:03 am UTC

I watched the clarkson thing live, and I got the impression that he wasn't joking, just using hyperbole.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby folkhero » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:14 am UTC

I usually shave in the shower, because in the shower is more comfortable than not in the shower in general, especially in the winter. I've never much used the mirror when I shaved anyway, so why not shave while that luxurious hot water is falling all over my body? I know it's bad for the environment, but it's a luxury I'm not really willing to give up.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Menacing Spike » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:04 pm UTC

charliepanayi wrote:I'm astonished that anyone takes anything Jeremy Clarkson seriously these days, the guy's a professional troll.


Trolling, in the internet sense, is manipulating someone, usually into anger, by expressing a viewpoint you do not have, or using intentional fallacies, or whatever.

It is not sarcasm, loljewniggers, or satire, or a person you disagree with, or an idiot.

(sometimes I suspect the "lololol i troll u! u mad??" are meta trolls)

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby eSOANEM » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:05 pm UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:
charliepanayi wrote:I'm astonished that anyone takes anything Jeremy Clarkson seriously these days, the guy's a professional troll.


Trolling, in the internet sense, is manipulating someone, usually into anger, by expressing a viewpoint you do not have, or using intentional fallacies, or whatever.

It is not sarcasm, loljewniggers, or satire, or a person you disagree with, or an idiot.


Clarkson is (in the clip) using a combination of sarcasm and satire in order to troll people (by provoking an emotional reaction from people for amusement). Whilst sarcasm, satire etc. are not necessarily trolling, they can be used by trolls.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Menacing Spike » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:08 am UTC

eSOANEM wrote:Clarkson is (in the clip) using a combination of sarcasm and satire in order to troll people (by provoking an emotional reaction from people for amusement). Whilst sarcasm, satire etc. are not necessarily trolling, they can be used by trolls.


I mean, he's not deceiving them. It's hopefully clear to everyone involved he's putting on a persona.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Shivahn » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:51 am UTC

folkhero wrote:I usually shave in the shower, because in the shower is more comfortable than not in the shower in general, especially in the winter. I've never much used the mirror when I shaved anyway, so why not shave while that luxurious hot water is falling all over my body? I know it's bad for the environment, but it's a luxury I'm not really willing to give up.

I wish I could, but my hair needs to be in a ponytail to do it, which makes washing hair hard, and our water also turns all mirrors into white surfaces because well water is full of calcium carbonate and other ions that like to be jerks to mirrors and windows.

So that is a couple reasons I can't.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Magnanimous » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:17 am UTC

Stay classy, Virgin America.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Cathy » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:01 am UTC

Virgin America douchebaggery. Wow. That's pretty bad.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Giant Speck » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:02 pm UTC

Virgin America: The official spokesairline of Newt Gingrich?
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:37 pm UTC

Nah. There's no mention of how your old airline has cancer.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby ShortChelsea » Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:26 am UTC

I hate the Cuties oranges commercial. Thanks for telling me about the choking hazard from laying down while eating. *tips hat* You've saved me from letting my child die from eating your oranges.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Angua » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:56 am UTC

ShortChelsea wrote:I hate the Cuties oranges commercial. Thanks for telling me about the choking hazard from laying down while eating. *tips hat* You've saved me from letting my child die from eating your oranges.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Ashlah » Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:39 pm UTC

I thought it was pretty hilarious the first time I saw it. Why not just have her sit up rather than put a disclaimer that you might choke to death on the bottom?

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Shivahn » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:29 pm UTC

This isn't super douchebaggy, but I find it irritating that these cough drops (Halls, though I think many advertise like this) are prominently labeled "Triple soothing action." They soothe sore throat, relieve coughs, and cool nasal passages. Which is fine, but it's sort of misleading since the only thing that's doing any of those is menthol (which is found in basically every cough drop).

Again, not super douchebaggy since it's at least true, but it seems like they're implying that they have more ingredients than the people who aren't labeling their stuff as such. It feels like cereal that's arsenic free.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Cathy » Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:28 am UTC

Did you know that to label something "trans fat free" all a company needs to do is make sure their product has less than .5gram transfat per serving?

HAY GUIS lets make 17 servings per baggie of tiny thingies! Even if it's one piece per serving it'll still be "trans fat free!"

wtf?
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Giant Speck » Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:56 am UTC

Cathy wrote:Did you know that to label something "trans fat free" all a company needs to do is make sure their product has less than .5gram transfat per serving?

The same thing goes for other nutrient definitions, according to the Food and Drug Administration:

Calorie-free = Less than 5 calories per serving
Fat-free = Less than 0.5 grams total fat per serving
No Saturated Fat = Less than 0.5 grams saturated fat and less than 0.5 grams trans fatty acids
Cholesterol-free = Less than 2 milligrams cholesterol per serving
Sodium-free = Less than 5 milligrams sodium per serving
Sugar-free = Less than 0.5 grams sugars per serving

I think the smaller the serving size, the stricter these definitions get. For example, I doubt a company could get away with passing a ten-gram serving with half a gram of trans fat as "trans fat free".
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Cathy » Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:58 am UTC

I dunno... it just seems stupid and deceptive. Shouldn't "fat free" "sugar free" and "calorie free" really mean zero? Not 3g if you eat the whole package?

Blah, FDA can blow me.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Giant Speck » Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:10 am UTC

Unless the food naturally does not contain sugar, fat, or calories, I would assume it would be difficult to process a food to absolutely, completely remove the naturally-occurring sugar, fat, or calories. I don't think it's meant to be deceptive. I think it's meant to imply that per the serving size, any trace amount of sugar, fat, or calories would be nutritionally negligible.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby sourmìlk » Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:20 am UTC

There was a commercial for the PS Vita that started with something like this: "It's the age old question: stay home and play video games, or go to work so your boss doesn't get mad at you. Now with this portable handheld piece of shit you can do both, so long as you hit the boss-key."

It's really dickish that a company decides to market to gamers by assuming that we're lazy bastards who just want to try and get out of doing our jobs.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:37 am UTC

Cathy wrote:Did you know that to label something "trans fat free" all a company needs to do is make sure their product has less than .5gram transfat per serving?

HAY GUIS lets make 17 servings per baggie of tiny thingies! Even if it's one piece per serving it'll still be "trans fat free!"

wtf?

That's why "serving size" is mandated and based around the FDA's Reference Amounts Customarily Consumed (and also why serving sizes tend not to relate that well to package sizes). Such trickery is frowned upon.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby phlip » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:04 am UTC

As explained in one of the Science of Discworld books, you can't be absolutely sure that there's exactly zero sugar, or whatever, in a thing, due to Heisenberg uncertainty... there's a non-zero chance that a sugar and anti-sugar virtual pair could appear at any time. This is why every single food or food-related product sold in Ankh-Morpork must carry a "May contain traces of nuts" label.

Realistically, there needs to be a threshold set, and "sufficiently low that we're willing to let it round to 0 in the Nutritional Information charts" is a good enough threshold for most purposes.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Steax » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:35 am UTC

If I ever make any sort of edible food, I'm totally labeling it "most likely contains antimatter."
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby JudeMorrigan » Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:05 pm UTC

Cathy wrote:Did you know that to label something "trans fat free" all a company needs to do is make sure their product has less than .5gram transfat per serving?

HAY GUIS lets make 17 servings per baggie of tiny thingies! Even if it's one piece per serving it'll still be "trans fat free!"

wtf?

I'm personally less bothered by this than by egregiously unhealthy things that prominently display their trans-fat free state, as if that's going to fool people into thinking they're healthy. What's this? These Krispy Kreme's are trans-fat free? Well, heck, then. Load me up with a dozen!


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