Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby addams » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:51 pm UTC

Tomlidich the second wrote:
yurell wrote:Does 'financially conservative' literally just mean 'will cut taxes'? That seems to be what they're going on about in the ad


its sort of what its devolved into.

the modern republican party will do just about anything if you mention "less taxes"

i have yet to see a political candidate from any party with any sort of solid financial plan, or direction to go. its all become a big fuss over chanting the typical party centric rallying cries.

is it obvious i don't like politics much?

Hell-o;
I can not read links.
I am not able to see the commercials you reference.
I have seen, in person, the effects of this advertising campain.

I have attended Tea Party meetings.
Those people have a great deal of Power.

It looks like a Club of Mean Old Men backed by Meaner Old Women.
Not all the Women are mean. Not all the Men are mean; One on One.

The Nation of the United States is in a difficult position.
One person can not speak for an entire Nation.

Who speaks for us? The TV. The amplified voice.
The Voice of whom? Who speaks to us for us?

Is it the Advertisers? Is it the Rich and Powerful that Like it This Way?
Are you old enough to remember Wag the Dog?
It was a meme that was in The Air the way Fear is now.

Commericials. Some of the most beautiful cenamentorapy comes to us from commericals.
The mean old men have new viatality as Heroes of The American Way.
American White Trash with Money. They are more than willing to Lead Us.
Where do you think that leads? Have you seen those people in person?

Why do the young ones always look so unkept? Are they hired thugs?
On the screen everyone is so clean and cute and well cared for.

Well; On the screen. In the commercials. The Nightly News is an Informercial.
We need to know that stuff. It will be more outrage at 11pm and again at 6am.

The Local News does not tell me the kind of stuff it used to.
I don't listen to it anymore.

I went to a local Budget meeting for the County where I am.
The Big Shots were having a grand time.

The people that attend those meetings do not have to be invited.
It is mostly dull stuff.

One of the men that did most of the talking said, "I never read The Paper."
The reporter to the local paper was in the room. He looked right at her.

I don't know. What do you think?
Does he read it? I don't.

What are the commercials telling us? The commercials are the best part of TV.
The News Sucks. YouTube has choices for the viewer. It is possible to skip the adds.

We may be missing great art by skipping the adds.
We are not missing great art by skipping the news.

oh dear;
This may be a missplaced Rant.
excuse me.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Ubik » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:46 pm UTC

Not commercials, but mobile/web apps being misleading about pricing and privacy: The Slippery Slope

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Tomlidich the second » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:51 pm UTC

pandora radio's message of "are you still listening?" is quite douchey.

who cares if im still listening. they get money from their advertisers, and it gets sent to the music producers in the form of royalties anyways, no point in making me stop what im doing and push a button every 20 minutes or so.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby The Scyphozoa » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:13 pm UTC

My guess is, advertisers realized that people leave Pandora on and walk away all the time, and they're still paying for those ad spaces even though many people aren't seeing/hearing the ads. So the advertisers threatened to leave Pandora unless they implemented that feature.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:28 pm UTC

Also, bandwidth costs money.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Tomlidich the second » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:31 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Also, bandwidth costs money.

hmm i didn't stop to consider this... it does cost alot of money for that kind of streaming traffic.

oh well, nothings free i guess :)
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Giant Speck » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:43 pm UTC

Tomlidich the second wrote:pandora radio's message of "are you still listening?" is quite douchey.

who cares if im still listening. they get money from their advertisers, and it gets sent to the music producers in the form of royalties anyways, no point in making me stop what im doing and push a button every 20 minutes or so.

I just pay for Pandora One and use a third-party desktop client.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Fire Brns » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:14 pm UTC

The new ford commercial is the most redneck thing i have ever seen:
Defeat invading alien tripods with you f150 by towing them.

Stop appealing to "middle america" ford. Especially when middle america now applies to any white trash high school droput who never puts anything in the flatbed and drives with 15 mpg efficiency.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby addams » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:36 pm UTC

Fire Brns wrote:The new ford commercial is the most redneck thing i have ever seen:
Defeat invading alien tripods with you f150 by towing them.

Stop appealing to "middle america" ford. Especially when middle america now applies to any white trash high school droput who never puts anything in the flatbed and drives with 15 mpg efficiency.

Umm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsu1t4rMJmQ
It does not seen, that bad to me.

Up beat little alien falls in love with a Ford.
It will never love the alien, back. Maybe.

I may have linked to a different alien and Ford.
Do you have a link that is not so Anthropomorphic?
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Giant Speck » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:02 am UTC

Addams, the commercial you linked to is for a car dealership in Illinois. I think what Fire Brns is talking about is a commercial that was intended for a national audience by the Ford Motor Company.

Also, the car featured in the commercial you linked to is a Ford Fiesta (subcompact car). The commercial that Fire Brns is talking about features a Ford F-150 (pickup truck).
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Giant Speck » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:03 am UTC

I can't find the commercial Fire Brns is talking about, though. At least not on YouTube.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Fire Brns » Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:04 pm UTC

Oh yea, right. I'm seeing it in those preshows before the trailers for movies start. I'd give it 2-4 weeks before it makes it to tv. Needless to say more people own f150s than need them because of a culture ford has built.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby addams » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:03 am UTC

Fire Brns wrote:Oh yea, right. I'm seeing it in those preshows before the trailers for movies start. I'd give it 2-4 weeks before it makes it to tv. Needless to say more people own f150s than need them because of a culture ford has built.

What? You don't like trucks? Why?

I don't.
I don't need one.

There was a Time and Place where a person with a Truck had a lot of Friends.
It was a little like other Technology. People with Trucks liked it, at first.

Then little by little men and women had to ask the Hard Questions.
"Are You here to see Me or My Truck?" It is a sad day when, "Your Truck." is the Answer.

Some people worry about our relationships with Machines.
I don't think that is our biggest concern. We Love Them!

Our Relationships with Humans is where we often fall short.
We don't like us, much. Have you seen how we act?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby kiklion » Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:51 pm UTC

Tomlidich the second wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:Also, bandwidth costs money.

hmm i didn't stop to consider this... it does cost alot of money for that kind of streaming traffic.

oh well, nothings free i guess :)


To expound on this, their advertisement revenue comes from either views or cliks. The rate for views is possibly also determined by their click through rate. Showing advertisements to empty rooms that no one clicks on lowers their click through rate.

So it costs them more to stream to empty rooms than to populated rooms, since the populated rooms are more likely to click an advertisement.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Djehutynakht » Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:41 pm UTC

I wonder if a certain local candidate for mayor realizes that taking out those youtube ads that pop up before you watch a video he's actually hurting the chances that I'll vote for him.

Yeah.. I'm not voting for him. The ad placement didn't help.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby pkcommando » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:03 pm UTC

Djehutynakht wrote:I wonder if a certain local candidate for mayor realizes that taking out those youtube ads that pop up before you watch a video he's actually hurting the chances that I'll vote for him.

Yeah.. I'm not voting for him. The ad placement didn't help.

B.b.b.but that's where teh young peopleses is. If they wuvz watching ONE video on the YouTubes, then getting a bonus video at the same time is the greatest thing everz!
:roll:


Right up there with: "If I don't have an ad airing during Every. Single. Commercial Break - on every channel - how will people know I'm running for office? They'll forget and only vote for my opponent who IS doing that."

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:22 pm UTC

You're assuming the ads being run aren't false-flag operations.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby The Scyphozoa » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:23 pm UTC

pkcommando wrote:Right up there with: "If I don't have an ad airing during Every. Single. Commercial Break - on every channel - how will people know I'm running for office? They'll forget and only vote for my opponent who IS doing that."

In 2000, I went with my grandma to a voting station and there was a pretend ballot for kids. I picked George Bush because I didn't even recognize Al Gore's name (or any of the other names).
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:12 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:You're assuming the ads being run aren't false-flag operations.

Not that I wouldn't put it past politicians to break these laws (or the political-legal establishment to let them get away with it), but there are laws that require all political ads to state who they are funded by, so if your opponent's campaign was running annoying ads "for" you, those ads would legally have to say "paid for by [your opponent's campaign]" in them.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Menacing Spike » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:26 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:You're assuming the ads being run aren't false-flag operations.

Not that I wouldn't put it past politicians to break these laws (or the political-legal establishment to let them get away with it), but there are laws that require all political ads to state who they are funded by, so if your opponent's campaign was running annoying ads "for" you, those ads would legally have to say "paid for by [your opponent's campaign]" in them.


Couldn't you create a fake political party called, like, "babby rapists", and then say your false flag video is funded by the "babby rapists"?

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:46 pm UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:Couldn't you create a fake political party called, like, "babby rapists", and then say your false flag video is funded by the "babby rapists"?

Yeah, I was thinking as I wrote that that such laws could easily be circumvented by creating shell corporations to sponsor the ads. It wouldn't even have to be something as horrible as that, it could be like... Republicans funding false-flag Democratic Party ads could have a shell corp called like the "Democratic Ad Council", so an annoying ad "for" Obama/whoever truthfully declares that it is "paid for by the Democratic Ad Council", not mentioning that that corporation is a Republican operation.

The Democratic Party might have a trademark case to make against that corporation, but the word "democratic" is hardly property of the Democratic Party exclusively, so I don't know that that would be a slam dunk objection to it.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Magnanimous » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:51 pm UTC

Could you just not allow anyone outside of a campaign to make a television campaign ad? I mean they could film it, but it would be presented by a certain party's campaign.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Djehutynakht » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:37 am UTC

Well it depends. What if I, for instance, am the Westboro Baptist church and I really want to show my support for Rand Paul 2016. Even if Rand Paul wants nothing to do with me, can't I still voice my support through a commercial?



Also, he's not a bad guy. And I doubt his competitors would put out false flags. It's actually a very friendly campaign. There's 12 of them, 11 democrats, and they're actually all mostly friendly with each other. Eerily so. It's been an overwhelmingly positive campaign.

And I don't particularly dislike the one who put out the ad. And he really isn't that old and crotchety... ton of youth and I guess he's not that old himself. There's just other candidates. But the ad made me growl mentally.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Magnanimous » Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:00 am UTC

I don't see a problem with a "this group supports this candidate" commercial, as long as the campaign itself still publishes it.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby SurgicalSteel » Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:24 am UTC

Isn't the same thing accomplished by "I am Lur, ruler of the planet Omicron Persei 8, and I approve this message."
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby addams » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:08 am UTC

Ubik wrote:Not commercials, but mobile/web apps being misleading about pricing and privacy: The Slippery Slope

That was fun.
I listened to a lecture about why controls on radios and cd players are the way they are.
Not because it is best. But, because it is familiar.
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Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Fire Brns » Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:48 pm UTC

addams wrote:
Fire Brns wrote:Oh yea, right. I'm seeing it in those preshows before the trailers for movies start. I'd give it 2-4 weeks before it makes it to tv. Needless to say more people own f150s than need them because of a culture ford has built.

What? You don't like trucks? Why?

I don't.
I don't need one.

There was a Time and Place where a person with a Truck had a lot of Friends.
It was a little like other Technology. People with Trucks liked it, at first.

Then little by little men and women had to ask the Hard Questions.
"Are You here to see Me or My Truck?" It is a sad day when, "Your Truck." is the Answer.

Some people worry about our relationships with Machines.
I don't think that is our biggest concern. We Love Them!

Our Relationships with Humans is where we often fall short.
We don't like us, much. Have you seen how we act?
I like trucks but I like when the right tool is used for the job. When you need to put a screw in a board you don't use a hammer because it is manlier, you use a screwdriver. When you need to move one person and one person only around with no cargo you don't need to own a 5 seat 6 wheeled tank of a vehicle. I drive a two seat because it is an economical decision: I only generally transport myself or 1 passenger, it uses much less gas, smaller so it isn't a giant blind spot on the road, and it costs less to maintain.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby eran_rathan » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:46 am UTC

Fire Brns wrote:I like trucks but I like when the right tool is used for the job. When you need to put a screw in a board you don't use a hammer because it is manlier, you use a screwdriver. When you need to move one person and one person only around with no cargo you don't need to own a 5 seat 6 wheeled tank of a vehicle. I drive a two seat because it is an economical decision: I only generally transport myself or 1 passenger, it uses much less gas, smaller so it isn't a giant blind spot on the road, and it costs less to maintain.


This is why I ride my bike most of the time, and have the van for when it is me + wife + offspring.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Tomlidich the second » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:53 pm UTC

im believing more and more that the people who make coca cola ads are major douchebags.

they are going for this whole "healthy lifestyle" thing to sell their sugar water in a can.
television adverts with healthy, active people, printed labels that claim the health benefits of drinking enough water (coke has some water in it)

look, i got nothing against drinking sugary beverages that will probably slowly kill me. (i don't drink them, but thats beside the point) but at least be honest about it. why not go get a few pro gamers or something to endorse your product?
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby nemui10pm » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:30 pm UTC

There is that terrible, terrible commercial for Visa Paywave that always piss me off whenever it comes on
It shows a cafeteria at lunchtime working like clockwork, everyone walking, eating and paying with Paywave in sync like some sort of a machine, before some guy decides to pay in cash and disrupts the whole system. The cashier pushes his change into his hand, he leaves, the machinery continues once more. It just screams consumerism and conformity. I can't imagine how anyone would look at it and think "cool, I want to be part of that!"
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Adacore » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:53 pm UTC

One of the commercials in the general YouTube rotation in Korea at the moment is for Durex. That doesn't bother me in the slightest, but several of my friends are english teachers and use YouTube videos in class sometimes, so they're getting really frustrated by it. My best friend in Korea is a middle school teacher, and she says if she doesn't catch the commercial before it's half way through, the kids will devolve into giggles and be generally uncontrollable for several minutes.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Windward » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:40 pm UTC

Adacore wrote:One of the commercials in the general YouTube rotation in Korea at the moment is for Durex. That doesn't bother me in the slightest, but several of my friends are english teachers and use YouTube videos in class sometimes, so they're getting really frustrated by it. My best friend in Korea is a middle school teacher, and she says if she doesn't catch the commercial before it's half way through, the kids will devolve into giggles and be generally uncontrollable for several minutes.


Can they put adblock on? I'm pretty sure that stops the youtube ads.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Adacore » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:16 am UTC

Windward wrote:Can they put adblock on? I'm pretty sure that stops the youtube ads.

I doubt it, they're using Korean Dept of Education computers. Probably no authority to install/modify anything.

Also, I philosophically object to adblock because it's how websites make money. If you're adblocking you're freeloading on pretty much every website you use.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:45 pm UTC

You want me to turn adblock off? Two things

1. No More Fucking Animated, Sound Producing Ads Goddamn Ever

2. Put your ads in a clearly defined "This shit is an ad, not another article for you to enjoy" section.

Then I'll turn it off. Until then? Be happy I'm not of the mindset that I should have free reign to burn ever advertisement I see.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Fire Brns » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:16 pm UTC

And they waste bandwidth, if your add is a video and has to buffer before the rest of the page loads you have mad me wait 5-10 extra seconds for the text I want to read to load and have convinced me to buy your competitor's product.

And wallpaper ads(is that the term): Youtube, what makes you think I want to look at katy perry or jz's untalented faces which incidentally also slow down loading speed when I'm looking at how-to or cat videos?

And... basically any feature that the oatmeal has mocked.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:10 pm UTC

I hope it's apparent that my rule 1 means that if your idea of an ad on a webpage is a video, you should have your hands broken.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Tomlidich the second » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:14 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:You want me to turn adblock off? Two things

1. No More Fucking Animated, Sound Producing Ads Goddamn Ever

2. Put your ads in a clearly defined "This shit is an ad, not another article for you to enjoy" section.

Then I'll turn it off. Until then? Be happy I'm not of the mindset that I should have free reign to burn ever advertisement I see.



pretty much how i feel about it.

also i believe i read somewhere adblock lets a few ads through that follow set guidlines? aka, no animation, no misleading titles, off to the side of the page, etc.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby ConMan » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:50 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:I hope it's apparent that my rule 1 means that if your idea of an ad on a webpage is a video, you should have your hands broken.

Throw in "Auto-playing video located down the bottom of the page, particularly one that loops and cannot be paused or turned off" for good measure.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Tomlidich the second » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:22 pm UTC

ConMan wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:I hope it's apparent that my rule 1 means that if your idea of an ad on a webpage is a video, you should have your hands broken.

Throw in "Auto-playing video located down the bottom of the page, particularly one that loops and cannot be paused or turned off" for good measure.



and the always lovable "audio only ad with a small pause button in a not readily findable spot."
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Adacore » Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:35 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:I hope it's apparent that my rule 1 means that if your idea of an ad on a webpage is a video, you should have your hands broken.

I agree in all cases except where the website's main purpose is video streaming. In that context (such as on YouTube) video ads make sense.

And fuck 'roll-over to expand' adverts. They're everywhere now (especially on the 'higher class' websites, like newspapers and such), and on some websites it's almost impossible to move your mouse in such a way that you don't roll-over the damn things.


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