REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby pseudoidiot » Tue May 19, 2009 5:49 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
zug wrote:
Tenth Speed Writer wrote:4: Anyone holding progressive ideals is a "socialist," "half-blind liberal," or a "fag."
(Can you guess where I hail from?)

I GOT THIS

MASSACHUSETTS

did I guess right??

Probably not. On average, we're pretty okay with liberals and fags here. We even let them marry. The fags, I mean.
But not the liberals. Fuck 'em.
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby SecondTalon » Tue May 19, 2009 5:54 pm UTC

Do YOU know what happens when you let a liberal marry a liberal? You get children that rebel against the liberal ideals! Liberals don't procreate with liberals.
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby zug » Tue May 19, 2009 6:03 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
zug wrote:
Tenth Speed Writer wrote:4: Anyone holding progressive ideals is a "socialist," "half-blind liberal," or a "fag."
(Can you guess where I hail from?)

I GOT THIS

MASSACHUSETTS

did I guess right??

Probably not. On average, we're pretty okay with liberals and fags here. We even let them marry. The fags, I mean.

Those crazy hippies!
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Axman » Tue May 19, 2009 9:36 pm UTC

"Sauce Americain" turned out to be North African hot sauce mixed with mayo and squirted all over my fries. It was an awesome misconception.

In France, they call hamburgers "un Americain" (a as in single, not un as in not belonging to) but not hamburgers, which, incidentally, is in driving distance from where I'm now. But they call cheese burgers "cheez burgers". It's hashed beef cooked well-done and served in a baguette with lettuce, tomato, and ketchup. So mostly there.

The word "cheez" isn't universal; it means specifically American cheese singles. Fromage is everything else.

In Belgium and the Netherlands, a Steak Americain is minced strip steak seasoned with shallots, onions, garlic, oil, and a touch of vinegar. It's raw with a raw egg yolk sitting in a divot in the meat. Served with fries drenched in mayo. It's delicious, though.

In France, you can get "un Belge" which is a buttered, grilled baguette filled with fries hosed down with mayo.

Apparently, Americans get fat. Europeans are just showing off their good taste in rich food. They're not fat, they're classy.

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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Grop » Wed May 20, 2009 10:14 am UTC

Axman wrote:In France, they call hamburgers "un Americain" [...] It's hashed beef cooked well-done and served in a baguette with lettuce, tomato, and ketchup.


This, plus fries, is what I call "un américain" (see here for instance). Would you call that a hamburger?

Also, how is it a misconception?

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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Gentlelady » Wed May 20, 2009 10:25 am UTC

About 90 percent of the people I have come across who know I am Eskimo and still have ties with my tribe ask me if I have ever eaten whale, or ever been whale hunting before. I'm sorry to disappoint you all. I do not. Not every single Eskimo eats or hunts whale. It's like asking a Native American if they still go around and scalp the white devils.


My tribe does not live in an igloo either, so don't bother asking.
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby SecondTalon » Wed May 20, 2009 11:24 am UTC

Gentlelady wrote:My tribe does not live in an igloo either, so don't bother asking.
Hey, do you guys...... awwwww.....
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Belial » Wed May 20, 2009 11:34 am UTC

Grop wrote:
Axman wrote:In France, they call hamburgers "un Americain" [...] It's hashed beef cooked well-done and served in a baguette with lettuce, tomato, and ketchup.


This, plus fries, is what I call "un américain" (see here for instance). Would you call that a hamburger?

Also, how is it a misconception?


A hamburger, american style, would consist of ground beef in a round (or sometimes square) patty, served on a soft bun (rather than a hard baguette), usually with lettuce, tomato, and ketchup (though sometimes with any number of things.) It would also, generally, be cooked medium rare. (Well, actually, it would be cooked to order. But if you order it darker than medium rare, it is because you are personally flawed YES JESSE AND GIRLTM I AM TALKING TO YOU)

Looks a little something like this:

Image

Axman's post is made up of misconceptions because they are all one country's slightly-incorrect concept of what another country eats. Also, because it contains the misconception that only americans eat ridiculous and fatty foods.

(Not that americans do any better. "Chinese" and "Mexican" food in america would be better stated as "What the Chinese and Mexican immigrants thought white people might enjoy")
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Felstaff » Wed May 20, 2009 11:52 am UTC

Steak Americain is rather delicious though. Perhaps it's the intense steak content (with a high ratio of steak:not steak)
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Axman » Wed May 20, 2009 11:47 pm UTC

Indeed. Bested only by "steak". Also known as steak or simply, steak.

Grop: hamburgers generally have so few as to say no fries inside them as well. Occasionally you will find other fast food bits in your burger, we think of these as mistakes. Unless it's a finger, then it's income.

No, the deal is that a real hamburger is served on a bun, either a classic French roll or a kaiser roll, both which are softish, and the patty isn't just beef; it's seasoned with white or red onion (or shallots) salt, pepper, and Worcestershire sauce. The beef should be sirloin or better, and chuck-ground. The argument of fried versus grilled belongs elsewhere. The above "good burger" is hand-formed to prevent over-working the beef (making it stringy or chewy) and none of its ingredients shall ever, ever be frozen.

But mostly, what I see as the misconception is this: un Americain tastes like shit. It's burned, dry, and so far, guaranteed to be served on stale bread. A rare hamburger from the City Grill, which has more awards in the bathroom than urinal cakes (which are made of the same stuff as moth balls I just found out) is one of the few sweet human pleasure we can have by grace.

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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby nyeguy » Thu May 21, 2009 3:44 am UTC

pseudoidiot wrote:But not the liberals. Fuck 'em.

But if they can't be married they have no right to be having sex!

Misconception: Because I don't spend every minute of my day talking to whoever is sitting next to me, I am antisocial.

I just don't want to talk to you.
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby GhostWolfe » Thu May 21, 2009 5:35 am UTC

Belial wrote:"Chinese" and "Mexican" food in america would be better stated as "What the Chinese and Mexican immigrants thought white people might enjoy"
I called it tourist food and it's awesome. Yum.

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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Emmz » Thu May 21, 2009 5:54 am UTC

Very annoying misconception: Upon identifying myself as a feminist, people begin assuming that I hate men and/or the penis, that I want to take all men out of power and replace them with women, and that I want lesbians to rule the world. (Well, actually, I would find it very amusing if someone accused me of that last.)

It's terribly frustrating because it's a legitimate progressive position working for equal rights and opportunities and is very inclusive (men, women, trans, gender-queers, you name it) and...I don't hate men, I quite like them, and neither do I hate the penis. My boyfriend can testify :P

The mind-boggling conflation of "feminist" with "female supremacist" is very frustrating.
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Zohar » Thu May 21, 2009 5:58 am UTC

Emmz wrote:The mind-boggling conflation of "feminist" with "female supremacist" is very frustrating.

I think people identify "feminist" as "in support of women and not of men". Which isn't surprising. The word is feminist, not "equalist" or something similar.
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Emmz » Thu May 21, 2009 6:19 am UTC

Zohar wrote:I think people identify "feminist" as "in support of women and not of men". Which isn't surprising. The word is feminist, not "equalist" or something similar.


But that's such a no-thought conclusion. They could bother looking up feminism in the dictionary--"the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of sexual equality" (OED)--or try to understand that the name isn't going to be changed now.

Besides, feminists are equalists. (Although "equalist" is hardly even recognized as a word or a movement.) Methinks you should have a look at this: http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com ... lusionary/
and this:
http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2007-04-07_569

The fight for equal rights has a long history, as the second article explains, and there are reasons to uphold and honor those who came before us. There's also very slight philosophical differences.

All I'm saying is, there's far too many annoying misconceptions around this particular philosophy and movement. Mainly because people have been misled.
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby muteKi » Thu May 21, 2009 6:45 am UTC

Well, considering that in our enlightened age, most of the 'feminists' that have something to say are ones that feel the need to elevate themselves over men, it's not an utterly ridiculous conclusion. There's relatively little for the more well-adjusted feminist to speak out against directly.

Of course, I identify as masculinist, as I myself rather tire of the stereotype of men as evil corrupt beings who want to sexually abuse all females, stopping at nothing in the process and making women into their slaves, and would prefer to fight that.

Incidentally, I read something recently from one such radical feminist group; not sure how incensed you'll be by it, though.
http://www.equalitynow.org/english/acti ... 1s_en.html
Certainly the rape simulator does not appeal to me much, but I suppose it has some value to the world at large, if merely providing an outlet for basal urges and some escapism.

Basically they want to get the game removed from the market even though the organization doesn't actually exist anywhere that the game would be sold (which I understand is exclusively Japan) -- in fact they've actually been successful in doing so, as it cannot be bought anywhere!
Of course free speech advocates and filthy geeks like me take offense at their actions, and of course quite often note that Japan has a particularly low rate of sex-related crimes despite the press they get thereof, and perhaps at least partly in fact due to the fact that they have a large market of pornographic material (as there is a strong correlation between the amount of porn and infrequency of sexual crimes, perhaps unsurprisingly).

Their response, excerpted from the link above (emphasis mine):
Many of these messages have referred to statistics of rape in Japan that are reportedly far lower than in the U.S. for example. Equality Now does not believe it serves any purpose to excuse crimes in one country by pointing out that there are more in another. In addition, women’s rights activists in Japan inform us that the numbers of reported rapes are not likely to reflect the actual incidents of rape in Japan. It is also difficult for women in Japan to report rape because victims have little faith in the criminal justice system and are worried about the stigma attached to rape.


Surely I'm not the only one who finds this rather disingenuous? After all, it's also rather well-accepted that the same phenomenon occurs in the US! Obviously, we can't really compare the ratio of unreported crimes between the two, and there's no reason to assume that there are more unreported rapes in Japan than in the US.

Other things to consider are that trials in Japan are much more likely to end in a conviction, and there are cases similar to the Duke lacrosse scandal where the women try to frame men for committing a crime when all they might have done was accidentally brush up against the woman in a crowded train car! (Do keep in mind that the analogous case happened in the US. Certainly situations like that one can't be improving the likelihood that a sexual assault/abuse case would be reported here. Either way, they're not entirely isolated incidents.)

-----

So yeah, a bunch of annoying misconceptions in this one -- see, still on-topic!
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Megatriorchis » Thu May 21, 2009 8:15 am UTC

muteKi wrote:Well, considering that in our enlightened age, most of the 'feminists' that have something to say are ones that feel the need to elevate themselves over men, it's not an utterly ridiculous conclusion. There's relatively little for the more well-adjusted feminist to speak out against directly.

Of course, I identify as masculinist, as I myself rather tire of the stereotype of men as evil corrupt beings who want to sexually abuse all females, stopping at nothing in the process and making women into their slaves, and would prefer to fight that.
See this right here? This is the most annoying fucking misconception I've ever encountered on these here forums.

Some links for you so you won't repeat this.
http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/03/10/faq-what-is-feminism/
http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/faq-what-do-feminists-want/
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Most feminists don't want superiority. It's equality that we want. Am I asking for superiority when I ask that you not make a game or a joke out of something as horrific as rape? Or are you just being an ignorant troll?
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Zohar » Thu May 21, 2009 8:21 am UTC

Megatriorchis wrote:Most feminists don't want superiority. It's equality that we want. Am I asking for superiority when I ask that you not make a game or a joke out of something as horrific as rape? Or are you just being an ignorant troll?


To be fair, you're not asking for superiority but it's not a request for the sake of feminism or womankind. Men get raped too. The reason rape jokes specifically are frowned upon here is not because we're really nice towards women or we try to be on equal terms for men and women, it's because those of us who have been here for a while have learned that people are very sensitive to them.

I know not to make a rape joke here. I don't usually make rape jokes, but I don't think it's taboo. But here, in a group of people many of which have been assaulted sexually, I know it's not funny and so I avoid it. It's not just because there are women who were raped or women who were rape here. It's because there are people who were raped.
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Axman » Thu May 21, 2009 8:34 am UTC

That's because feminist has preconceptions, not misconceptions. (They may be misconceptions about you and pretty much anyone else with a head on his or her shoulders, but not over the movement, which has has non-marginal radical outliers.) Currently, the movement you're talking about is, IIRC, "humanist".

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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Megatriorchis » Thu May 21, 2009 8:42 am UTC

Axman wrote:That's because feminist has preconceptions, not misconceptions. (They may be misconceptions about you and pretty much anyone else with a head on his or her shoulders, but not over the movement, which has has non-marginal radical outliers.) Currently, the movement you're talking about is, IIRC, "humanist".
So you're saying that the Strawman Feminist represents feminists as a whole and the feminist movement? What the fuck are you smoking, and can I have some?
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Zohar » Thu May 21, 2009 8:55 am UTC

Megatriorchis wrote:So you're saying that the Strawman Feminist represents feminists as a whole and the feminist movement? What the fuck are you smoking, and can I have some?

I think he's trying to say that there's a very extreme and loud minority which tarnishes the entire movement and makes people think of "feminist" as "lesbian man hater" or something similar. And I think he's right. It's not something specifically wrong, though. As always, what makes the news is the sensational, the extreme, the people who shout out loud.
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby michaelandjimi » Thu May 21, 2009 9:34 am UTC

Zohar wrote:To be fair, you're not asking for superiority but it's not a request for the sake of feminism or womankind. Men get raped too. The reason rape jokes specifically are frowned upon here is not because we're really nice towards women or we try to be on equal terms for men and women, it's because those of us who have been here for a while have learned that people are very sensitive to them
Though rape is a definitively feminist issue, because of the sheer proportion of rape victims that are women. Rape is a terrible problem and ought to be done away with entirely. However, the fact that approximately 10 times as many women as men get raped (source) displays a decided gender bias on victims, a reflection of the systemic discrimination.

muteKi wrote:Of course, I identify as masculinist, as I myself rather tire of the stereotype of men as evil corrupt beings who want to sexually abuse all females, stopping at nothing in the process and making women into their slaves, and would prefer to fight that
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I'm interpreting this as you fighting against the filthy discrimination against men that is so very prevalent in our society.

If so, er... what?

And with regards to your link and quoted text, perhaps it would do you to read further on, especially with regards to the United Nations Committee into the matter.
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Belial » Thu May 21, 2009 11:38 am UTC

Zohar wrote:
Megatriorchis wrote:So you're saying that the Strawman Feminist represents feminists as a whole and the feminist movement? What the fuck are you smoking, and can I have some?

I think he's trying to say that there's a very extreme and loud minority which tarnishes the entire movement and makes people think of "feminist" as "lesbian man hater" or something similar. And I think he's right. It's not something specifically wrong, though. As always, what makes the news is the sensational, the extreme, the people who shout out loud.


And putting aside a debate as to whether your pairing of "lesbian" with "man-hater" (and implication of both as what's-ruining-feminism) is problematic or anything....

If the extreme end weren't there, people would make them up. The conflation of "feminist" with "ridiculous man-hating woman-supremacist" is a way of discrediting feminism. It's a weapon. And it works pretty well.
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby SecondTalon » Thu May 21, 2009 11:42 am UTC

Of course, when I hear Masculinist, I think white supremacist who beats his girlfriend.

Not saying it makes up for it, just sayin', is all.
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Zohar » Thu May 21, 2009 11:46 am UTC

Belial wrote:And putting aside a debate as to whether your pairing of "lesbian" with "man-hater" (and implication of both as what's-ruining-feminism) is problematic or anything....


I was trying to make a point of finding the extreme stereotype. I would like to clarify that I don't think there's a correlation between lesbians, man-haters and feminists.

And even if there is it doesn't imply causation...
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Axman » Thu May 21, 2009 12:32 pm UTC

michaelandjimi wrote:bad stuff


Cases reported, natch.

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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Random832 » Thu May 21, 2009 1:25 pm UTC

Belial wrote:A hamburger, american style, would consist of ground beef in a round (or sometimes square) patty, served on a soft bun (rather than a hard baguette), usually with lettuce, tomato, and ketchup (though sometimes with any number of things.) It would also, generally, be cooked medium rare. (Well, actually, it would be cooked to order. But if you order it darker than medium rare, it is because you are personally flawed YES JESSE AND GIRLTM I AM TALKING TO YOU)
Well, there's also something american about a hamburger consisting of an undersized, overcooked, patty with ketchup, pickles, and onions (no tomato or lettuce) on it. Looks like this:
Image
Of course, while we're on the subject of burgers...
Misconception - that is real food.
this is what a burger looks like.
(incidentally - they have waffle fries? why don't we get waffle fries in Hardees territory?)
____

Emmz wrote:
Zohar wrote:I think people identify "feminist" as "in support of women and not of men". Which isn't surprising. The word is feminist, not "equalist" or something similar.
But that's such a no-thought conclusion. They could bother looking up feminism in the dictionary--"the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of sexual equality" (OED)--or try to understand that the name isn't going to be changed now.
Yeah well... Misconception: such people don't exist and/or don't call themselves feminists. Kind of ruins it for everyone else, but that's life.
Megatriorchis wrote:...Strawman Feminist...
Is this meant to imply such people don't exist?

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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Belial » Thu May 21, 2009 1:33 pm UTC

Random832 wrote:Is this meant to imply such people don't exist?


Barely. But it is politically expedient to pretend that they do, and in much greater numbers.

Random832 wrote:
Misconception - that is real food.
this is what a burger looks like.
(incidentally - they have waffle fries? why don't we get waffle fries in Hardees territory?)


Man, that is a fast food burger. That is like insisting that a shih tzu is what a dog looks like. Yes, it is an example, but it's not really representative, or especially essential.
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Meowgan » Thu May 21, 2009 1:45 pm UTC

It does not have beetroot. Beetroot makes a burger delicious.
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Random832 » Thu May 21, 2009 2:19 pm UTC

Belial wrote:Man, that is a fast food burger. That is like insisting that a shih tzu is what a dog looks like. Yes, it is an example, but it's not really representative, or especially essential.


So is the one you posted a menu picture of (it may even be the same one, but I can't identify the one I posted 100% beyond "Thickburger" - your pic was the original 1/3LB Thickburger) And I maintain that no burger has tomato and onions that add up to the same thickness as the patty - that's a convenience so you can identify all of the basic ingredients from looking at the picture.

My point, more generally, was that real food doesn't look like that pic, but that it's the image that comes to mind (wherein lies the misconception) when you think of it, because of all the fake stuff in advertising and on menu pictures etc

Next time you get one of those real burgers, try taking a photograph of it, and compare it to the picture of the same burger on the menu. (if applicable, I suppose the real fancy restaurants won't have any pictures with the menu at all - if not, compare to the photo you selected as an ideal example of an American burger) - while real restaurants do give more thought to presentation than a fast food place, the point remains that (for example) a burger that had an even layer of ketchup and mayonnaise thick enough to look like that from the side would be way too slimy anyway.
Last edited by Random832 on Thu May 21, 2009 2:31 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Belial » Thu May 21, 2009 2:26 pm UTC

So is the one you posted a promo picture of (it may even be the same one, but I can't identify the one I posted 100% beyond "Thickburger" - your pic was the original 1/3LB Thickburger)


Hahah, was it? I used an image search.

Just proves that the goal of fast food food photography is to make their food look like actual food.
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Thu May 21, 2009 3:03 pm UTC

If someone tries to strawman their way to victory, can their avatar be replaced with a picture of Ray Bolger?
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby muteKi » Thu May 21, 2009 4:07 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:
Megatriorchis wrote:So you're saying that the Strawman Feminist represents feminists as a whole and the feminist movement? What the fuck are you smoking, and can I have some?

I think he's trying to say that there's a very extreme and loud minority which tarnishes the entire movement and makes people think of "feminist" as "lesbian man hater" or something similar. And I think he's right. It's not something specifically wrong, though. As always, what makes the news is the sensational, the extreme, the people who shout out loud.


Yeah, this was what I was trying to say. I have nothing against what's basically bog-standard feminism, it's just that nobody ever really hears from them that much.

I have nothing against women and personally am as disgusted as everyone else by rape, in case that was not clear as well.

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculism
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Belial » Thu May 21, 2009 4:55 pm UTC

muteKi wrote:Yeah, this was what I was trying to say. I have nothing against what's basically bog-standard feminism, it's just that nobody ever really hears from them that much.


Likely because A) you aren't listening, and B) you think "bog-standard" feminism is too radical, and characterize it as extreme and man-hating and woman-supremacist.

There's...uhh....a lot of feminism out there, guy. And basically none of these strawfeminists you're talking about. If you're seeing the latter and not seeing the former, there's probably something wrong at your end.

It's okay, it happens a lot. Especially if you happen to be laboring under the....

Misconception: "There's relatively little for the more well-adjusted feminist to speak out against directly."

Then anyone speaking out must be unreasonable, right?

Kindof how I used to think. Turns out, there's something wrong right at the core assumption level.
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby the tree » Thu May 21, 2009 5:01 pm UTC

Meh, regular feminism does sort of get drowned out by the crazy types a lot. Not to mention a lot of women who don't want to be called feminists for fear of being associated with the crazy types.

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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Random832 » Thu May 21, 2009 5:53 pm UTC

Problem: I'm an idiot and didn't read what muteKi said

I'm an idiot and didn't read what muteKi said

My alternative hypothesis: I'm an idiot and didn't read what muteKi said

But I think discussions about what I think you think about what what I think you think he thinks are exceedingly unlikely to be productive (especially when I'm an idiot and didn't read what muteKi said), particularly as compared to something more direct such as my solution proposed above
Last edited by Random832 on Thu May 21, 2009 7:12 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Belial » Thu May 21, 2009 6:07 pm UTC

Eh, I'm basically done discussing it as we've gone far off topic. If anyone's really interested, revive the feminism thread.

Read it first, though.
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby gmalivuk » Thu May 21, 2009 6:32 pm UTC

Yeah, discuss feminism in the feminism thread. I'll pointedly ignore the hell out of anyone insisting on continuing to harp on it here.

As for burgers, I will admit to quite liking the Aussie/Kiwi trend of putting all sorts of other interesting shit on burgers. Beetroot, pineapple, etc.
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby Belial » Thu May 21, 2009 6:36 pm UTC

Isn't pineapple a Hawaiian thing? Or do they just really like to *call* those hawaiian burgers around here?
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Re: REALLY Annoying Misconceptions

Postby gmalivuk » Thu May 21, 2009 6:41 pm UTC

Don't know, don't care. All I do know is that a burger in Australia with "everything" included beetroot and pineapple, and tasted awesome.
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