The Flat Earth Society

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Louis XIV
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The Flat Earth Society

Postby Louis XIV » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:10 am UTC

I don't know whether you have ever heard of the Flat Earth Society: It's a bunch of people who believe (seriously!) that the earth is flat. If you don't believe me, I invite you to visit their forum:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php

Their Flat Earth Theory goes back to a book written in 1881 by a nuthead called Samuel Birley Rowbotham. The theory seems to be is based on two arguments :
  • Looks flat to me.
  • Samuel Birley Rowbotham said so.

In a nutshell, they believe the earth is a disc with the center at the north pole and surrounded by an ice wall, the sun and the moon rotate above the equator in an altitude of 3000 miles, and gravity comes from the earth accelerating constantly upwards. Oh, yes: Of course there is also a global conspiracy to hide all this, led by NASA. And the ice wall is guarded by armed guards (no, they are not called "Night Watch"). Every evidence against Flat Earth Theory is interpreted as forgery and thus taken as evidence for the conspiracy, or explained away with "bendy light". It's hilarious.

Luckily, there are some "round-earthers" arguing with these nutheads. As for me, I recently posted some arguments for round earth in their forum (my pseudonym is "Zogg"). For example, I proved that according to their numbers, sunset should happen about 26° above the horizon. They explained it away with "bendy light" and even claimed that "trigonometry is based on aggressively globularist Round Earth Theory". I laughed my a** off.

But I warn you: Whereas it's easy to find arguments why earth is not flat, I found it impossible to convince Flatearthers of the validity of these arguments. Nevertheless it's an amusing exercise.

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Steax » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:19 am UTC

I once saw a site detailing further mechanics about the FE theory, but can't seem to find it.

Their forum is, however, an excellent location for interesting quotes.


(Context: poster mentions a theory that explains how the day-night cycle works on a flat earth)
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby AvatarIII » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:34 am UTC

Louis XIV wrote:[*]Looks flat to me.


no it doesn't, if it were flat and you stood on the top of a building you'd be able to see all the way to the edges of the earth, the fact that there is a horizon is proof enough that the earth isn't flat! right?

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Louis XIV
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Louis XIV » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:34 am UTC

AvatarIII wrote:
Louis XIV wrote:[*]Looks flat to me.


... the fact that there is a horizon is proof enough that the earth isn't flat! right?


Proof enough for me. Not proof enough for them.

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Sytri » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:29 am UTC

Thanks for this link. This will entertain me for a while. I'll lurk and read, but won't post. I'm terrible when it comes to writing my thoughts down.

Honestly didn't think that people believed this sort of thing anymore. Love the idea that all of the NASA astronauts are liars and all the governments are in on the "big conspiracy"
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Sheikh al-Majaneen » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:02 pm UTC

Hollow Earth is way cooler than Flat Earth.

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby AvatarIII » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:35 pm UTC

Louis XIV wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:
Louis XIV wrote:[*]Looks flat to me.


... the fact that there is a horizon is proof enough that the earth isn't flat! right?


Proof enough for me. Not proof enough for them.


I have no words.

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Louis XIV » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:54 pm UTC

Sheikh al-Majaneen wrote:Hollow Earth is way cooler than Flat Earth.


It would be fun to bring Flat-Earthers and Hollow-Earthers together and watch them argue.

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby AvatarIII » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:32 pm UTC

Louis XIV wrote:
Sheikh al-Majaneen wrote:Hollow Earth is way cooler than Flat Earth.


It would be fun to bring Flat-Earthers and Hollow-Earthers together and watch them argue.


I'd be worried that they might come to a compromise! not sure if the theories are mutually exclusive.

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby clockworkmonk » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:45 pm UTC

Yeah, I spent some time on the forums. ended up leaving after using their rules to show that length of days near poles and the way the sun moves above the flat earth is..... stupid. and they ignored.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby AvatarIII » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:51 pm UTC

they seem to just have one assumption, and bend everything else to fit it, rather than finding one solution that fits all evidence without having to bend rules.
that's not the scientific method, that's just plain denial.

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Decker » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:54 pm UTC

Sheikh al-Majaneen wrote:Hollow Earth is way cooler than Flat Earth.

Agreement!
Especially the theories that state that there's another civilization living on the inside.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Steax » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:58 pm UTC

I have to wonder if they hold a little initiation ceremony at 2000 posts where they say "hello, please help us troll everyone!"

I cannot honestly believe that none of their "moderators" or editors or whatever aren't trolls.

Especially stuff like...

This morning I decided that it would be appropriate to research the operation of the Sextant, for those of you who don’t know of this device, it is a device to measure a celestial object’s elivation above the horizon. (such as the sun) Invented in 1731, it to my mind is a device of deception. Its name reeks of satire and one of my associates stated that it was created as a joke by the organization. I will further my research into other objects of navigation and state them in time.


In my days away from exertion, ancient devices of navigation have fascinated me. I remember back to one of my extensive conversations with one of my intellectual contacts. We discussed with great vigor the operation and the source of the Astrolabe
For those who are not familiar with this device, it is a metal disk that was held suspended by a little ring. On the disk was a scale and a ruler near by to measure the information. I was skeptical of this device upon hearing its vile name, in time I will show why it is a device of deception and dishonor.


Apparently this guy was meditating on these tools or something. Because you can totally judge things based on their names, and allowing that to be bias for your future, ehem, 'experiments'.
Last edited by Steax on Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:01 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Jplus » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:58 pm UTC

Wait. The FES is not a joke? Like the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a joke?
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:06 pm UTC

Jplus wrote:Wait. The FES is not a joke? Like the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a joke?

Yeah.. look, while I am sure that someone on that forum actually believes it, for every believer arguing the case there's got to be at least a dozen or more people who are just making this face, all the time.

Spoiler:
Image


Or perhaps this one.
Spoiler:
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Steax » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:09 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
Spoiler:


AAAAARRRRGGGHHHHHH

Jplus wrote:Wait. The FES is not a joke? Like the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a joke?


I thought it was a joke, until I realized that some of them appeared to genuinely believe it. Either way, it sounds like epic trolling material.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby M1k3_Nix » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:29 pm UTC

I haven't got an account over there, but it seems like incredibly trollable.
If we insist Google Earth is proof, will they explode with rage? :twisted:
Might be worth a shot
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Роберт » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:46 pm UTC

Somehow I doubt this site is much more serious than http://www.landoverbaptist.net/
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby You, sir, name? » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:52 pm UTC

I tried to start the flat spacetime society for relativity deniers, but nobody wanted to be a part of it. :-(
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Роберт » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:16 pm UTC

Louis XIV wrote:As for me, I recently posted some arguments for round earth in their forum (my pseudonym is "Zogg").

Did you notice that the avatar for one of the people you were arguing with was a man wearing a tinfoil hat and plugging his ears?

And you took him seriously?

I also saw several instances of troll face.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Shivahn » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:52 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:I tried to start the flat spacetime society for relativity deniers, but nobody wanted to be a part of it. :-(

Did you try Andy Schlafly?

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:54 pm UTC

Steax wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:
Spoiler:
AAAAARRRRGGGHHHHHH

Spoiler:
Image
Problem?
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Louis XIV » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:25 pm UTC

AvatarIII wrote:
Louis XIV wrote:
Sheikh al-Majaneen wrote:Hollow Earth is way cooler than Flat Earth.


It would be fun to bring Flat-Earthers and Hollow-Earthers together and watch them argue.


I'd be worried that they might come to a compromise! not sure if the theories are mutually exclusive.


A compromise between flat earth theory and concave hollow earth theory would be the theory that we are living inside a rotating, cylindrical earth. It would be euklidean (like flat earth), hollow (like hollow earth), and would even explain (earth) gravity better than both of them.

Also, you can replace Flat earth's ice walls by huge ice plugs, so you don't need armed guards.

Роберт wrote:Did you notice that the avatar for one of the people you were arguing with was a man wearing a tinfoil hat and plugging his ears?
And you took him seriously?.


At first I took his tinfoil hat is a hint that he is acting, but this guy sounds pretty serious. Maybe he is not mocking conspiracy nutheads, but mocking people who take him for a conspiracy nuthead.

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby kaimason1 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:54 pm UTC

AvatarIII wrote:
Louis XIV wrote:
Sheikh al-Majaneen wrote:Hollow Earth is way cooler than Flat Earth.


It would be fun to bring Flat-Earthers and Hollow-Earthers together and watch them argue.


I'd be worried that they might come to a compromise! not sure if the theories are mutually exclusive.


Compromise: Norse cosmology, as I understand it, has nine worlds pretty much stacked on one another. Flat and layered (like many hollow theories).

Also, man these guys don't understand, like, anything about the way logic works whatsoever. For one, you can't have one model you work most of your arguments off of, and then point to another (which contradicts your arguments) to explain away flaws, and just vaguely say they are all just working models when someone calls you out.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Роберт » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:24 pm UTC

Louis XIV wrote:At first I took his tinfoil hat is a hint that he is acting, but this guy sounds pretty serious. Maybe he is not mocking conspiracy nutheads, but mocking people who take him for a conspiracy nuthead.

I'm still fairly certain it's like landoverbaptist, linked previously.

They seem pretty serious, too.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby ShootTheChicken » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:25 pm UTC

Relevant.

Designed for religion, but applicable here.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Midnight » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:25 pm UTC

Have you guys (speaking to xkcdians, not flat earthians) heard of Poe's Law?



edit: wow, ShootTheChicken sniped the shit out of me. well played.
Last edited by Midnight on Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:26 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
uhhhh fuck.

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby ShootTheChicken » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:25 pm UTC

WHY YES I HAVE
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby userxp » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:51 pm UTC

Oh my god...

I thought I had seen everything. I thought no amount of fundamentalism would surprise me anymore. I can practically read Conservapedia without flinching. But I have to admit some "discussions" are harder than what I can take.
-Exactly. The round earth I modelized looks flat. Thus "looks flat" does not imply "is flat". Quod erat demonstrandum.
-Erm, it looks flat, it does not look like a ball, ipso facto. Equo ne credite.

FFFFFFUUUUU... If that guy is a troll (I suspect he is), I congratulate him. I would definitely have a hard time coming up with these things.

What I do like in that forum is that there are many people who are just there to openly make fun at flat earthers. That's the kind of freedom you don't find in Conservapedia.

Also, as a general rule, you should never use irony when seriously trying to argue with crackpots. Poe's law applies from both sides. Just saying.

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby SirBryghtside » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:18 pm UTC

I love how all of their arguments are 'if you have ANY piece of evidence against it, that's Round Earth Theory' and then accuse you of circular logic :P

Most of them are trolls, but there are some (like the mods) who aren't. I wonder if it started out as a joke site, and then some people started believing in it...
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby jawdisorder » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:41 pm UTC

I don't have the constitution to read through there. What is their explanation for why you can watch a boat sink below the horizon as it goes out to sea?

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Steax » Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:28 am UTC

jawdisorder wrote:I don't have the constitution to read through there. What is their explanation for why you can watch a boat sink below the horizon as it goes out to sea?


Bendy light. Light is affected by distortion in the atmosphere, and due to gravity. Round-Earthers have been unable to prove how gravity works. In the Flat-Earth model, light as affected by gravity and thus it curves upwards when you look at it from a distance.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby scarecrovv » Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:59 am UTC

Steax wrote:Bendy light. Light is affected by distortion in the atmosphere, and due to gravity. Round-Earthers have been unable to prove how gravity works. In the Flat-Earth model, light as affected by gravity and thus it curves upwards when you look at it from a distance.

Bendy light? Did you say bendy light? Let me get this straight. Their theory is that the earth isn't bent down, but spacetime is bent up?

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby kaimason1 » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:30 am UTC

They also explain that gravity doesn't exist for Earth, but only exists for the celestial bodies, including the planets which are round. Instead, the earth is accelerating up.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Steax » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:46 am UTC

kaimason1 wrote:They also explain that gravity doesn't exist for Earth, but only exists for the celestial bodies, including the planets which are round. Instead, the earth is accelerating up.


The planets are not round. Can you see them to be round? Those telescopes you use can fool you. You must use just your eyes, and remove as many possible causes of interference as possible.

Also, have you tried jumping off a chair, and feel the world rush up to meet your feet? This is indistinguishable from "gravity". As Einstein's relativity put it, it is impossible for a single observer to tell the difference between a downward pull and the world simply rushing up to you. Gravity is a pervasive myth created to fool those of us who try to model the world. Much like how satellites do not exist - their signals are simply transfered from stations on the ground, with some hidden by the government to produce the illusion that satellites exist - gravity does not exist, either.

scarecrovv wrote:
Steax wrote:Bendy light. Light is affected by distortion in the atmosphere, and due to gravity. Round-Earthers have been unable to prove how gravity works. In the Flat-Earth model, light as affected by gravity and thus it curves upwards when you look at it from a distance.

Bendy light? Did you say bendy light? Let me get this straight. Their theory is that the earth isn't bent down, but spacetime is bent up?

My face is covered in molten cheese, and ¡it really hurts!


Current theories indicate that there is an indirect pull from the heavens - this is why gravity becomes (ever so slightly) less when you get closer to the sky.



WOW, THIS IS ACTUALLY FUN!

I propose we get Deva to post on their forums.

EDIT: Hang on, did I just spend my 1000-1002th posts advocating that the world is flat?
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby The Scyphozoa » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:57 am UTC

Do they have any explanation for what is making the Earth accelerate?

Also, do they have a map of precisely what their Earth looks like?
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:23 am UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:Do they have any explanation for what is making the Earth accelerate?
Probably the machines of the mole people in the hollow Earth.

Also, do they have a map of precisely what their Earth looks like?

Basically this.
Spoiler:
Image
Only instead of a ring on the outside, it's the wall of ice. Antarctica is a myth. Which is a good thing, as it means The Thing is impossible.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby kaimason1 » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:28 am UTC

Steax wrote:
kaimason1 wrote:Also, have you tried jumping off a chair, and feel the world rush up to meet your feet? This is indistinguishable from "gravity".


That part is actually true. The sad thing is that they distinguish that from gravity, which does exist but only applies to celestial bodies.

The Scyphozoa wrote:Do they have any explanation for what is making the Earth accelerate?

Also, do they have a map of precisely what their Earth looks like?


Yes - they call it "The universal accelerator". No explanation of wtf it is, just that it has a name. And that if you walk off the edge you won't fall because you will immediately come into the effect of this UA, giving the appearance you are standing on nothing.

And also yes, they have at least two very distinct maps which they switch between to explain away errors in their logic.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby yurell » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:59 am UTC

I'm just wondering why the stars are different in the northern hemisphere to the southern.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Deva » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:08 am UTC

Stand back. Will create the universal accelerator.

Began four hundred years ago. Originally remained stationary in "The Universal Box". Worked passably until one day. Exploded. Ripped a dark hole in The Universal Box. Was sucked out through air pressure differences. Collided several times before being expelled. Do you require proof? Look at the craters in the moon and the scars along Earth (especially the oceans). What else could have caused it?

Floats in that same direction today. Had random encounters, naturally. Drifted through a milkfall three hundred fifty years ago. Filled up the Earth's oceans. Clarified into "water" over time. (May still view its original color by observing ice.) Caused massive flooding, unfortunately. Killed the dinosaurs. Gave rise to humanity, however. Flourished with copious amounts of milk, honey, and dinosaur carcasses. Considered this event through the milkfall as significant. Immortalized it in the galaxy's name. Cannot create a name such as that any other way.

Quod erat demonstrandum.

Amendment: Wishes to make a less mean statement. Does not believe in Flat Earth Theory. Appreciates the capacity to question conventional beliefs, however. Please keep seeking the truth and new methods to prove it. Hopes for undeniable evidence.
Last edited by Deva on Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:38 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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