The Flat Earth Society

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pizzazz
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby pizzazz » Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:54 am UTC

Yeah, FES can be pretty funny to read. One of my favorite threads: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=44906.0
TL;DR: Maps of flat earth are actually distorted on any scale other than 1:1 because of "bendy light" (pretty much what it sounds like, and with about as much exposition), and then areas and distances on FE are consistent because of "non-euclidean geometry" (no, it's never explained how a non-euclidean geometry is still considered "flat").

Oh right, and also conventional notion of distance is all wrong because light bends.

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Essah » Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:05 am UTC

AvatarIII wrote:they seem to just have one assumption, and bend everything else to fit it, rather than finding one solution that fits all evidence without having to bend rules.
that's not the scientific method, that's just plain denial.


funny how similar that is to [insert any religious belief] isn't it. How can people(not you AvatarIII) call flat earther's stupid yet still believe that there's a magical divine being up in the sky that created the earth and so on...beyond me.
It's funny how dogmas work.

It seems they are able to keep it up through denial, Satelite imagery is fake, NASA is a conspiracy yadda yadda. Incredible that 21st centuray people behave like this, but then I guess it's not too far from people believing god created the universe.

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby DSenette » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:17 pm UTC

Essah wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:they seem to just have one assumption, and bend everything else to fit it, rather than finding one solution that fits all evidence without having to bend rules.
that's not the scientific method, that's just plain denial.


funny how similar that is to [insert any religious belief] isn't it. How can people(not you AvatarIII) call flat earther's stupid yet still believe that there's a magical divine being up in the sky that created the earth and so on...beyond me.
It's funny how dogmas work.

It seems they are able to keep it up through denial, Satelite imagery is fake, NASA is a conspiracy yadda yadda. Incredible that 21st centuray people behave like this, but then I guess it's not too far from people believing god created the universe.

from my knowledge, this is actually the reason that the flat earth society exists. to point this out.

it's such an irrational belief, but presented in SUCH a convincing manner, that it's very VERY difficult to discern if the people there are true believers or consummate trolls.

from the point of view of anyone outside of FES, they're nutters. they are universally accepted as stupid, insane people. but anyone who holds any unreasonable, unsupportable belief is participating in the same nuttery.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Louis XIV » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:34 pm UTC

Having spent some time on their forum now, I'm almost sure that the FES society consists of very few true flat earthers (possibly only Tom Bishop) plus a lot of trolls who enjoy the flat-earther roleplay. (Btw, making fun of Tom Bishop seems to be pretty much common amongst the "Flat Earthers" in the forum.)
This was somehow confirmed by a message in the FES Facebook group :

I've been an official member for years and now I think the joke has run its course... no, this is not a real society. We are kidding. They will delete this post to keep the spirit alive, but the whole thing is really an exercise in creative thinking. Reduce the rage and spread the truth

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby pizzazz » Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:15 am UTC

Really? Religion? I would imagine this is much more of a paradoy of people who pawn off evidence-less or debunked pet theories as ironclad fact and claim a conspiracy if any counterevidence is presented, like 9/11 truthers, birthers, creationists, the vaccine-autism people, people who think we didn't land on the moon or that JFK was killed by a conspiracy, etc. This can't really be parodying religion because religions, by and large, don't, as far as I know, claim to be supported by undeniable evidence (or, generally, that evidence for their belief is being hidden by the government). I could be wrong about that, but it just doesn't fit.

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby curtis95112 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:30 am UTC

pizzazz wrote:Really? Religion? I would imagine this is much more of a paradoy of people who pawn off evidence-less or debunked pet theories as ironclad fact and claim a conspiracy if any counterevidence is presented, like 9/11 truthers, birthers, creationists, the vaccine-autism people, people who think we didn't land on the moon or that JFK was killed by a conspiracy, etc. This can't really be parodying religion because religions, by and large, don't, as far as I know, claim to be supported by undeniable evidence (or, generally, that evidence for their belief is being hidden by the government). I could be wrong about that, but it just doesn't fit.


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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby DSenette » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:20 pm UTC

pizzazz wrote:Really? Religion? I would imagine this is much more of a paradoy of people who pawn off evidence-less or debunked pet theories as ironclad fact and claim a conspiracy if any counterevidence is presented, like 9/11 truthers, birthers, creationists, the vaccine-autism people, people who think we didn't land on the moon or that JFK was killed by a conspiracy, etc. This can't really be parodying religion because religions, by and large, don't, as far as I know, claim to be supported by undeniable evidence (or, generally, that evidence for their belief is being hidden by the government). I could be wrong about that, but it just doesn't fit.

have you heard of any religions? claiming to be "supported by undeniable evidence" is kind of what they do.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:34 pm UTC

No, the point that all religions require circular logic and literal interpretations of allegory rather misses the point of what religion is to many people. It's certainly an appropriate example for creationists or their ilk, but lumping all faith under this umbrella is foolish.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby DSenette » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:43 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:No, the point that all religions require circular logic and literal interpretations of allegory rather misses the point of what religion is to many people. It's certainly an appropriate example for creationists or their ilk, but lumping all faith under this umbrella is foolish.

take that wherever you want, but a belief in DeityX without any actually testable supporting evidence is pretty much the root of all religion.

is FES exclusively pointing at religion? no, their targets are pretty broad and can be summarized as "anyone who believes something that has no supporting evidence or a wealth of evidence against said belief".
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:04 pm UTC

Protip : Not all religions involve DeityX.

Not disagreeing with your assessment of the FES. Just.. pointing out that DeityX is not central to all religions. A fuckload of them, sure. But not all.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby DSenette » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:07 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Protip : Not all religions involve DeityX.

Not disagreeing with your assessment of the FES. Just.. pointing out that DeityX is not central to all religions. A fuckload of them, sure. But not all.

well, i may need to research, but, i don't know of any religions currently practiced that don't have a supernatural being at the root of it's existence. unless i'm using too narrow a definition of religion.

example?
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:10 pm UTC

DSenette wrote:take that wherever you want, but a belief in DeityX without any actually testable supporting evidence is pretty much the root of all religion.

And not every religion places DeityX as a bearded man in the sky. Many people with belief/faith/spirituality don't require literal interpretations of their faith to be true. Lumping everyone with faith into the delusional category of FE's is ignorant and presumptive for the same reason saying 'Show me where your God lives' is rather missing the point.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:24 pm UTC

DSenette wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:Protip : Not all religions involve DeityX.

Not disagreeing with your assessment of the FES. Just.. pointing out that DeityX is not central to all religions. A fuckload of them, sure. But not all.

well, i may need to research, but, i don't know of any religions currently practiced that don't have a supernatural being at the root of it's existence. unless i'm using too narrow a definition of religion.

example?
You're also using too broad a definition of deity, but that's another argument entirely.

Buddhism would be the big example. There's atheist Hindus and the supernatural beings in Jainism are more like what people of a Christian background would call a Guardian Angel, not a god.

And then there's the various neopagan faiths that have at their center a concept more than an actual god. They may speak of things like the Goddess, but it's understood to be a symbol, not an actual supernatural being.

Lastly, of course, there's the argument on if any Animist religion even has gods in it at all.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby DSenette » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:42 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
DSenette wrote:take that wherever you want, but a belief in DeityX without any actually testable supporting evidence is pretty much the root of all religion.

And not every religion places DeityX as a bearded man in the sky. Many people with belief/faith/spirituality don't require literal interpretations of their faith to be true. Lumping everyone with faith into the delusional category of FE's is ignorant and presumptive for the same reason saying 'Show me where your God lives' is rather missing the point.

i didn't say anything about bearded men in the sky. belief/faith/spirituality and religion are also quite often different.

the point of FES isn't the belief, it's the level of evidence involved. whether it's a lack of evidence or a large amount of evidence to the contrary.


SecondTalon wrote:
DSenette wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:Protip : Not all religions involve DeityX.

Not disagreeing with your assessment of the FES. Just.. pointing out that DeityX is not central to all religions. A fuckload of them, sure. But not all.

well, i may need to research, but, i don't know of any religions currently practiced that don't have a supernatural being at the root of it's existence. unless i'm using too narrow a definition of religion.

example?
You're also using too broad a definition of deity, but that's another argument entirely.

Buddhism would be the big example. There's atheist Hindus and the supernatural beings in Jainism are more like what people of a Christian background would call a Guardian Angel, not a god.

And then there's the various neopagan faiths that have at their center a concept more than an actual god. They may speak of things like the Goddess, but it's understood to be a symbol, not an actual supernatural being.

Lastly, of course, there's the argument on if any Animist religion even has gods in it at all.

athiest hindus aren't practicing the religion though, they're practicing some of values and traditions, but using it as a way of life, not as a religion.

just like a secular humanist can be doing a lot of the same things that jesus taught, but not be practicing the christian religion.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:47 pm UTC

DSenette wrote:i didn't say anything about bearded men in the sky. belief/faith/spirituality and religion are also quite often different.

the point of FES isn't the belief, it's the level of evidence involved. whether it's a lack of evidence or a large amount of evidence to the contrary.

You lumped all religion as being similar to FE'ers. Which is why I pointed out not all religions rely on ignoring evidence.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby DSenette » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:00 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
DSenette wrote:i didn't say anything about bearded men in the sky. belief/faith/spirituality and religion are also quite often different.

the point of FES isn't the belief, it's the level of evidence involved. whether it's a lack of evidence or a large amount of evidence to the contrary.

You lumped all religion as being similar to FE'ers. Which is why I pointed out not all religions rely on ignoring evidence.

i did not. i said that the point of FES (as in the reason people who are in the FES) is to parody any group that holds beliefs that are either not based on actual evidence, or still held in the face of counter evidence.

a large part of parody is exaggeration.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:07 pm UTC

DSenette wrote:have you heard of any religions? claiming to be "supported by undeniable evidence" is kind of what they do.

This is what you said, which is why I said that your claim seemed to rather miss the point of what religion is to some people.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby DSenette » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:51 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
DSenette wrote:have you heard of any religions? claiming to be "supported by undeniable evidence" is kind of what they do.

This is what you said, which is why I said that your claim seemed to rather miss the point of what religion is to some people.

then, as it's not specifically important to this topic in general....retracted
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Koyaanisqatsi » Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:06 pm UTC

"Are you a God?" they asked the Buddha. "No," he replied. "Are you an angel, then?" "No." "A saint?" "No." "Then what are you?" Replied the Buddha, "I am awake."—Huston Smith

Also! I'd like to interpret Buddhism as the core beliefs of Hinduism without everything else attached. You see, Hinduism is a way of life, a way of government, a way of everything. That can't very easily spread. Buddhism is Hinduism, in a form that can spread. Hinduism's core beliefs resemble those of Buddhism.

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Thesh » Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:35 am UTC

Round earth is just a conspiracy to disprove the existence of jesus.

Seriously though, it's no surprise that there are some people still think the earth is flat. Hell, until Christopher Columbus came along, everyone thought the earth was flat.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby yurell » Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:38 am UTC

Thesh wrote:Seriously though, it's no surprise that there are some people still think the earth is flat. Hell, until Christopher Columbus came along, everyone thought the earth was flat.


No, no they didn't. They knew it was round since antiquity, and they had a good idea of how big it was, which is why Columbus found getting funding to be so hard — if the Americas weren't there he was screwed.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby ShootTheChicken » Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:56 am UTC

This fact now brought to you with a Wikipedia Link!
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby The Scyphozoa » Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:24 am UTC

yurell wrote:
Thesh wrote:Seriously though, it's no surprise that there are some people still think the earth is flat. Hell, until Christopher Columbus came along, everyone thought the earth was flat.


No, no they didn't. They knew it was round since antiquity, and they had a good idea of how big it was, which is why Columbus found getting funding to be so hard — if the Americas weren't there he was screwed.
Do you mean that in the sense that he would not have found land and the expedition would have been a failure? Or that he was expecting to hit the Americas? In which case, why were the natives called "Indians"?
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby yurell » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:06 am UTC

I mean in the sense he'd have starved / dehydrated to death before reaching China or India.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby brenok » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:57 pm UTC

In fact, at the time of Columbus, they thought that Earth was much smaller, and that's why Cristopher called the natives "indians".

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:42 am UTC

brenok wrote:In fact, at the time of Columbus, they thought that Earth was much smaller, and that's why Cristopher called the natives "indians".

No, he did that because he was an idiot.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby phlip » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:32 am UTC

brenok wrote:In fact, at the time of Columbus, they thought that Earth was much smaller

If by "they" you mean "Columbus", then yes.

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby quadmaster » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:15 am UTC

I would like to point out that the FE'ers just caused a (minor) religious flame-war in a different forum in a thread that none of them have ever posted in or even know exist.

Trolls of the FE forums, my hat goes off to you. You will never know the extent of your victory.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Arancaytar » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:18 am UTC

Louis XIV wrote:I don't know whether you have ever heard of the Flat Earth Society: It's a bunch of people who believe (seriously!) that the earth is flat. If you don't believe me, I invite you to visit their forum:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php

Their Flat Earth Theory goes back to a book written in 1881 by a nuthead called Samuel Birley Rowbotham. The theory seems to be is based on two arguments :
  • Looks flat to me.
  • Samuel Birley Rowbotham said so.

In a nutshell, they believe the earth is a disc with the center at the north pole and surrounded by an ice wall, the sun and the moon rotate above the equator in an altitude of 3000 miles, and gravity comes from the earth accelerating constantly upwards. Oh, yes: Of course there is also a global conspiracy to hide all this, led by NASA. And the ice wall is guarded by armed guards (no, they are not called "Night Watch"). Every evidence against Flat Earth Theory is interpreted as forgery and thus taken as evidence for the conspiracy, or explained away with "bendy light". It's hilarious.

Luckily, there are some "round-earthers" arguing with these nutheads. As for me, I recently posted some arguments for round earth in their forum (my pseudonym is "Zogg"). For example, I proved that according to their numbers, sunset should happen about 26° above the horizon. They explained it away with "bendy light" and even claimed that "trigonometry is based on aggressively globularist Round Earth Theory". I laughed my a** off.

But I warn you: Whereas it's easy to find arguments why earth is not flat, I found it impossible to convince Flatearthers of the validity of these arguments. Nevertheless it's an amusing exercise.


A SoIAF reference, but no Pratchett? (maybe too obvious)

gravity comes from the earth accelerating constantly upwards


That's a remarkably non-nutty anachronism. So they believe in Newtonian physics, but not in a model already accepted as true hundreds of years BC, when nobody had even heard of concepts like "inertia" and "acceleration"?
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby tausami » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:40 am UTC

quadmaster wrote:I would like to point out that the FE'ers just caused a (minor) religious flame-war in a different forum in a thread that none of them have ever posted in or even know exist.

Trolls of the FE forums, my hat goes off to you. You will never know the extent of your victory.


This statement is hereby incorrect. We have noticed. But I assure you, we are not trolls. There are a couple which are, of course, but we are for the most part quite serious. As for the hollow Earth suggestion, I've added it to the archive (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=48418.0) of such things.

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby echolink » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:58 pm UTC

There are many facets to the Flat Earth Society Forum.

I recently posted about the "Moon Bounce" that amateur radio operators use to measure the distance from the earth to the moon by simply timing the return signals and multiplying the time by the speed of radio waves, which are the same as the speed of light.
One reply stated something to the effect that an amateur radio operator talking to truckers can't bounce signals off the moon.
Also they disputed the speed of radio waves as also being involved in the "Conspiracy."

They seem to be ignorant on a lot of subjects.

And that "Ham Radio and Radar have no relation to each other" as regards those measurements of the earth to the moon.
BTW the distance from the earth to the moon by FE is about 3,000 miles versus the measurements of 237,150 miles by the amateur radio operators . The amateur radio measurements are not as exact as precision measurements but reasonably close. Someone suggested that the radio waves get tired somewhere between the earth and moon.

Also that microwave repeater stations which depend on the curvature of earth do not need to be spaced 30 to 35 miles apart because the earth is flat.

Also that if a ship disappears over the horizon you can bring it back up with a telescope.

The list could go and on. But you will have to give them credit for imagination. In addition to trolling,they are also very good at de-railing a subject with a lot of inane and non-related replies.

Of course every one and every organization other than the Flat Earth Society is part of the Round Earth Conspiracy. The list of conspirators grows by the day.

But it is a good site to go to for "mental gymnastics." :D

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Asthanius » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:19 pm UTC

After reading some of the posts from the boards more influential/well-known members, I now hold the belief that the FES was made in an attempt to troll idiots who would join the boards and believe everything. Eventually, people got confused and promoted actual believers to the positions of moderators and such. Later on, people found the boards and either made fun of them or tried trolling, but ended up trolling the original trolls who thought they were trolling believers.
It's basically a giant ball of nonsense.
Does anybody have any idea of what the hell energy is? It's the thing that, when applied to something, gives itself to the thing so that the thing can expend it, applying it to other things in multiple forms of it. What the hell is it?

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby echolink » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:03 am UTC

Asthanius wrote:After reading some of the posts from the boards more influential/well-known members, I now hold the belief that the FES was made in an attempt to troll idiots who would join the boards and believe everything. Eventually, people got confused and promoted actual believers to the positions of moderators and such. Later on, people found the boards and either made fun of them or tried trolling, but ended up trolling the original trolls who thought they were trolling believers.
It's basically a giant ball of nonsense.


"It's basically a giant ball of nonsense."
That's about the best and closest definition I have yet to hear of the Flat Earth Society Forum :!: :D
Thank You !

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby bluebambue » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:58 am UTC

Asthanius wrote:After reading some of the posts from the boards more influential/well-known members, I now hold the belief that the FES was made in an attempt to troll idiots who would join the boards and believe everything. Eventually, people got confused and promoted actual believers to the positions of moderators and such. Later on, people found the boards and either made fun of them or tried trolling, but ended up trolling the original trolls who thought they were trolling believers.
It's basically a giant ball FLAT PLANE of nonsense.

FTFY

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Tomlidich the second
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Tomlidich the second » Fri May 03, 2013 6:03 pm UTC

echolink wrote: Someone suggested that the radio waves get tired somewhere between the earth and moon.



as an amateur radio operator, this made me laugh harder than it should have.



any chance we can correct these peoples aged philosophy with a plane flight around the south pole? showing that it is indeed, one large landmass rather than a ring like their theory says, would make their entire story fall apart.

maybe get a kickstarter going to put all of these people on a plane together.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby SecondTalon » Mon May 06, 2013 1:41 pm UTC

You're assuming they're serious.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Asthanius » Mon May 06, 2013 2:49 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:You're assuming they're serious.

Some of them do appear serious, and those people are usually in positions like moderators.
The worst part of this is that even if we somehow got everybody who believes in the theory on a plane and flew it around and through all of Antarctica, nothing would change. One major part of the theory is that you can never really be sure that you're travelling in a straight line, especially because according to them, GPS's are part of the Conspiracy and compasses don't work the way we think they do.
Does anybody have any idea of what the hell energy is? It's the thing that, when applied to something, gives itself to the thing so that the thing can expend it, applying it to other things in multiple forms of it. What the hell is it?

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby eran_rathan » Mon May 06, 2013 3:07 pm UTC

Asthanius wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:You're assuming they're serious.

Some of them do appear serious, and those people are usually in positions like moderators.
The worst part of this is that even if we somehow got everybody who believes in the theory on a plane and flew it around and through all of Antarctica, nothing would change. One major part of the theory is that you can never really be sure that you're travelling in a straight line, especially because according to them, GPS's are part of the Conspiracy and compasses don't work the way we think they do.


huh. have any of them used inertial compasses before - i would think that would blow their minds.
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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Asthanius » Mon May 06, 2013 4:46 pm UTC

eran_rathan wrote:
Asthanius wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:You're assuming they're serious.

Some of them do appear serious, and those people are usually in positions like moderators.
The worst part of this is that even if we somehow got everybody who believes in the theory on a plane and flew it around and through all of Antarctica, nothing would change. One major part of the theory is that you can never really be sure that you're travelling in a straight line, especially because according to them, GPS's are part of the Conspiracy and compasses don't work the way we think they do.


huh. have any of them used inertial compasses before - i would think that would blow their minds.

The problem I see with that is they'll most likely reject such a compass on the grounds that the information provided to it can be incorrect.
Does anybody have any idea of what the hell energy is? It's the thing that, when applied to something, gives itself to the thing so that the thing can expend it, applying it to other things in multiple forms of it. What the hell is it?

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Re: The Flat Earth Society

Postby Tomlidich the second » Mon May 06, 2013 10:37 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:You're assuming they're serious.


either serious about this theory, or serious about trolling. if it is the latter, they need to spend a little more time in sunlight.
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