Tomb Raider

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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psykx
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Tomb Raider

Postby psykx » Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:46 pm UTC

I'm excited about the franchise reboot that is released early next week. I've managed to not own a console with tomb raider being a current game so far and I always love the character beginning stories (batman begins, casino royal etc). Do you think this game is going to live up to the history of the tomb raider legacy?
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Re: Tomb Raider

Postby Menacing Spike » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:08 pm UTC

I hear the death cutscenes are almost pornographic.

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Re: Tomb Raider

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:15 pm UTC

I watched a couple videos of the game today; definitely plan on picking this up. Think Far Cry 3 but with a more fluid progression and pakour style exploration mode.
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Re: Tomb Raider

Postby Chen » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:59 pm UTC

I only played about an hour so far but its pretty fun. But man they really put you through the ringer story wise to start. Its a hilariously bad day for Lara.

Like a lot of third person games I find I get motion sick playing this at full resolution on my computer screen. Lowering the resolution (in window mode) solved that like it did for any other games this occurs with. If you're particularly prone to this type of thing, this game is particularly bad for it though. The camera in cinematics is shaky to begin with so that doesn't help.

The graphics are gorgeous, though I found the realistic TressFX hair (which is a huge performance hog) still looked a bit off so I didn't mind turning it off. Can play with everything else on Ultra and still gets me 35 FPS. Turning off some random stuff I barely noticed (shadow detail and the like) got me up to a solid 50-55 fps which works for me.

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Re: Tomb Raider

Postby AvatarIII » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:41 pm UTC

Chen wrote:I only played about an hour so far but its pretty fun. But man they really put you through the ringer story wise to start. Its a hilariously bad day for Lara.

Like a lot of third person games I find I get motion sick playing this at full resolution on my computer screen. Lowering the resolution (in window mode) solved that like it did for any other games this occurs with. If you're particularly prone to this type of thing, this game is particularly bad for it though. The camera in cinematics is shaky to begin with so that doesn't help.

The graphics are gorgeous, though I found the realistic TressFX hair (which is a huge performance hog) still looked a bit off so I didn't mind turning it off. Can play with everything else on Ultra and still gets me 35 FPS. Turning off some random stuff I barely noticed (shadow detail and the like) got me up to a solid 50-55 fps which works for me.

What are your specs like? I got the game free with a Radeon 7870 but haven't got around to playing it yet. I've been a console gamer for a long time so I am not bothered about 35 fps, as much a i am squeezing every drop off power out to make the game look better than it would on console.

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Re: Tomb Raider

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:41 am UTC

Put in about 2 hrs tonight on Xbox version. I have, thus far, almost zero complaints. The 'you failed this action sequence' cutscenes are kind of hilariously violent, and playing this game makes me worried someone is going to overhear Lara's grunts of effort/pain and think I'm watching some weird porn, but the action is smooth, the exploration is fun, and by in large I'm left feeling that she is one incredibly, impressively, bad ass chick.

Ok, my one complaint; there was a sequence wherein she finds herself stomping around a snowy mountain, and climbing a very tall metal structure. Homegirl needs to put on a parka; I was cold just looking at the screen, and that tanktop couldn't have been cozy.
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Re: Tomb Raider

Postby d0nk3y_k0n9 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:28 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Ok, my one complaint; there was a sequence wherein she finds herself stomping around a snowy mountain, and climbing a very tall metal structure. Homegirl needs to put on a parka; I was cold just looking at the screen, and that tanktop couldn't have been cozy.


At least that's consistent with the movies, even if it is ridiculous. I remember watching one of the movies with my dad and both of us laughing at the scene where she's dog sledding in a tank top.

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Re: Tomb Raider

Postby Xeio » Wed May 01, 2013 3:10 am UTC

Picked this up on the Origin sale, I quite enjoyed it.

DEATHBOW! Mwahahahhaha.

Izawwlgood wrote:Ok, my one complaint; there was a sequence wherein she finds herself stomping around a snowy mountain, and climbing a very tall metal structure. Homegirl needs to put on a parka; I was cold just looking at the screen, and that tanktop couldn't have been cozy.
Ah good, I wasn't the only one.

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Re: Tomb Raider

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed May 01, 2013 3:15 am UTC

I rather enjoyed the game. I went through all the crypts, but didn't hunt down all the GPS caches or such. I would have liked to see a bit more ownership of her badassery near the end of the game; she sort of begrudgingly suffered through it all.

zeropunctuation had a good review, but I don't think he gave it enough credit.

A friend of mine had a, I felt, interesting observation; early in the game, he said he was very protective of her, very conservative in her actioneering. I wonder if men/women play games differently depending on having male/female avatars.
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Re: Tomb Raider

Postby Koa » Wed May 01, 2013 4:00 am UTC

I'm pretty sure it's more about immersion than gender. It's not the best idea to exert yourself when you're lost and wounded.

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Re: Tomb Raider

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed May 01, 2013 11:59 am UTC

Far Cry?
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Re: Tomb Raider

Postby Koa » Wed May 01, 2013 1:58 pm UTC

I never felt immersed in Far Cry. The world is certainly fun and polished, and in Far Cry 3 you can sort of connect with your character's emotional arch, but I never felt vulnerable or human. I never felt like the world was more than just a sandbox to run around in, designed specifically for me. I would go to an outpost and shoot up some guys, sometimes as a silent hunter and sometimes as a crazed pyromaniac, but never with any concern about the bullets coming at me or the lives I was taking. I didn't even care why I was doing it. I just wanted to shoot stuff.

Tomb Raider immerses you in the world because Lara is quickly portrayed as someone who is human and with human limitations. She gets injured and she hunches over holding her side. She struggles with the environment, squeezing through small cracks in a cave, tumbling down landslides, shivering in the cold and so on. In Far Cry, you're flying around on a jet ski without a care. I could probably list hundreds of small details that help add to the believability of Tomb Raider as well. Far Cry 3 has similar details to be fair, but Tomb Raider simply has more of them because that's the type of game they were making.

Far Cry 3 spoiler and a very minor Tomb Raider spoiler, just in case
Spoiler:
There's a part in FC3 where you have to interrogate and beat up your brother or friend or something (it says something that I don't even remember) to remain undercover. You could say that that is a level of immersion, but I kind of felt like it was a bit of a cheap shot to pull on your heart strings. I think you could do this in almost any game and it would have the same effect. Take any slightly endearing ally that you are meant to rescue and force the player to beat them up while they cry and groan. It's easy to get the player's attention with something like that, but it won't be long before you're cruising around on a hang glider without a care.

Lara doesn't kill anyone for quite a while, and when she takes her first life in a hectic kill or die situation, she's troubled by it. It's what I would expect if I were to believe that she or the world that she is in is real. I think they try the same thing in Far Cry 3 but it falls flat because you know that you're expected to spill blood and have fun.


Granted, some of the immersion of Tomb Raider is broken at points, but it's a far cry from Far Cry. harharhar. I remember that I tried to avoid killing people after I first got my first human enemies in Tomb Raider because it felt like it mattered just on a moral level, but I quickly found that the game doesn't really want to let you do that. There's the aforementioned tanktop in snowstorm issue. There's the big gun fights where you're mowing down enemies that charge you mindlessly. The ending also gets a little weird... but... yeah. Suspension of disbelief and all that.

I'm pretty sure if Lara was a dude I would have treated him largely the same way, but I can't say the same for Crystal Dynamics.

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Re: Tomb Raider

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed May 01, 2013 6:37 pm UTC

I agreed with zeropunctuation that some of the immersion and character development in Tomb Raider really just boils down to 'Lara sounding/acting helpless'. Which is fine in the beginning, because it helps build narrative, but at the end of the game, I don't want her bemoaning the fact that she's got to crawl through a cave. By the end of the game, we're not left with a Lara that's embraced her inner badass, we're left with a Lara that's retained her vulnerability, but managed to overcome.

Don't get me wrong, I loved it, but when the game was over I was... I guess hoping for more from her.

Spoiler:
Also, I'm not sure what you mean by 'quite some time before she kills someone'... That happened like, 5m into the game, and it was a phenomenal scene


Koa wrote:I'm pretty sure if Lara was a dude I would have treated him largely the same way, but I can't say the same for Crystal Dynamics.
I'm not sure I agree; I think part of what makes the game so successful is that we want to protect her and watch her thrive, and can recognize the immense strength she has, while simultaneously not hurr hurring to ourselves about how big her boobs are. The game's painted an ACTUALLY strong female protagonist, not a pair of tits with guns.
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Re: Tomb Raider

Postby cphite » Mon May 06, 2013 7:55 pm UTC

I agreed with zeropunctuation that some of the immersion and character development in Tomb Raider really just boils down to 'Lara sounding/acting helpless'. Which is fine in the beginning, because it helps build narrative, but at the end of the game, I don't want her bemoaning the fact that she's got to crawl through a cave. By the end of the game, we're not left with a Lara that's embraced her inner badass, we're left with a Lara that's retained her vulnerability, but managed to overcome.


While I do really like the fact that they've made her more human, in some ways it just makes it more glaring when she does something super-human. The part with her climbing in the snow wearing a tanktop is a great example; earlier in the game she's nearly dropping over from hypothermia when it's just raining; less than a day later she's climbing with nary a shiver in a much colder environment. One moment she's at the verge of puking because she killed someone; very shortly afterwards she's taking down entire platoons of trained soldiers. And after each of these things, we're expected to accept her as the vulnerable girl again.

Don't get me wrong - I like the game. I'm a huge fan of games that are story driven, and as a story, this is really well done in my opinion. I just wish that if they were going to go down the vulnerable "ordinary" character path, that they'd stuck to it - or at least made her progression take a while longer.

Still an awesome game regardless; well worth picking up.


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