XBox One

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darkone238
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Re: XBox One

Postby darkone238 » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:25 am UTC

keozen wrote:While there is a case for "A company listened to feedback and changed" that's the idealistic way of looking at it. The things they have changed, gone back on and backed out of are changes that even I could see at a glance were features that the game playing community just plain didn't want anywhere near their new consoles (and I'm assuming MS is FULL of better industry experts than I) but they thought they'd be able to slip them in (to their advantage) because (I'm assuming here) they thought Sony was going to do the same and then the consumer would have no choice but to sit back and take it.

There's a difference between announcing that you're going to be selling a widget that comes in black, hearing that your fanbase prefers white and changing it before launch and announcing that you're selling a widget that spys on you, won't let you give it to your friends and only lets you use widget accessories from your own country and only changing it before launch because you're getting scared you'll not sell a single one.


I still wish they kept the sharing and whatnot with digital sales. The scenarios that the DRM enabled are really cool, but aren't a globally acceptable way to do it.

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Re: XBox One

Postby Tyndmyr » Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:41 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:If people actually cared about backwards compatibility, they'd buy the Wii U. :(

I do care, so I am buying it eventually. But ... it seems like backwards compatibility doesn't matter really.


Well, I only care about backward compatibility for games I intend to play again. I used the crap out of my wii for like the first six months, then it just sat there on the shelf.

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Jack21222
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Re: XBox One

Postby Jack21222 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:44 pm UTC

As much as I've stated my dislike for the proposed features of the XBox One (all of which they've taken back), it occurs to me that this might be perfect for my sister.

My sister's a quadriplegic; she can't move anything below her shoulders. So, when she watches TV, she relies on other people to change the channels and adjust the volume and such for her. It seems that she should be able to do almost all of that through voice commands through the Kinect on the XBox One (or even the 360, but she might as well get the latest iteration). She could watch Hulu and Netflix on her own, and I've even heard a rumor that there's some sort of cable TV integration (from this article: http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/19/xbox ... to-expect/).

So, my question to those of you with an Xbox 360 and Kinect: Can you turn the system on, navigate to Hulu and Netflix, select and play a show using only your voice? Are there any limitations of what you can't do (TV volume, for example?) Have you guys heard anything about whether the XBox One Kinect will have greater functionality in the voice control realm than the 360 Kinect?
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Re: XBox One

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:43 am UTC

Leave the system on all the time, and I think you're good for that, yeah. And you may as well leave it on, since consoles eat power even when they're "off".

Volume is different, I believe. That's a TV control, not an xbox control.

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Re: XBox One

Postby Jack21222 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:50 am UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:Leave the system on all the time, and I think you're good for that, yeah. And you may as well leave it on, since consoles eat power even when they're "off".

Volume is different, I believe. That's a TV control, not an xbox control.


The WiiU controller can control the TV, so technologically it would be possible for the XBox to do the same. They could also put a volume control on what the XBox outputs like you can do with a PC. I hope they add this feature with the Xbox One.
broken_escalator wrote:The Mako is powered by the rage of the physics it denies.

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Re: XBox One

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:48 am UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:Leave the system on all the time, and I think you're good for that, yeah. And you may as well leave it on, since consoles eat power even when they're "off".


Mine don't - I have a switch at the mains (only used when the consoles are on "standby")

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Re: XBox One

Postby Xeio » Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:11 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:And you may as well leave it on, since consoles eat power even when they're "off".
An order of magnitude (or two) less power...

The Xbox can be turned on by voice anyway, so I'm not sure what benefit leaving it on gives.

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sparkyb
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Re: XBox One

Postby sparkyb » Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:21 pm UTC

keozen wrote:While there is a case for "A company listened to feedback and changed" that's the idealistic way of looking at it. The things they have changed, gone back on and backed out of are changes that even I could see at a glance were features that the game playing community just plain didn't want anywhere near their new consoles (and I'm assuming MS is FULL of better industry experts than I) but they thought they'd be able to slip them in (to their advantage) because (I'm assuming here) they thought Sony was going to do the same and then the consumer would have no choice but to sit back and take it.

There's a difference between announcing that you're going to be selling a widget that comes in black, hearing that your fanbase prefers white and changing it before launch and announcing that you're selling a widget that spys on you, won't let you give it to your friends and only lets you use widget accessories from your own country and only changing it before launch because you're getting scared you'll not sell a single one.

I disagree with your way of looking at it, I think that is much too pessimistic. I don't think MS included the features you are referring to just for their own advantage. That's a really cynical way of looking at it. Other than crushing the secondary market on used sales with the DRM stuff, what advantage is it anyway? I think MS was really trying to do most of it for the customer's best interest, but the customer's best interest and what customer's think/say they want don't have to be the same thing. I think there are upsides and downsides to any change. It is easy for people to react instantly to the downsides and prefer things like they are currently used to, because they might not realize how the upside outweigh the downsides or the downsides aren't as bad as they think until they really get to try it. I think MS was hoping Sony was going to do some of the same things so that the downsides wouldn't hurt sales before people had the chance to realize the good in what they were planning, and the two of them could together drag people kicking and screaming into the better future.

Tying games to consoles/accounts on a server allows you to play without having to swap disks, play at a friends house without having to bring the game or your friend owning it, and trade your license with a friend digitally (for a small fee). I'm not sure whether the good outweighs the bad here, but it is the direction we're going anyway with more things moving to digital download. MS believes there is untapped potential in Kinect-style motion gaming and so do I, but it is a new paradigm and it is going to take some time and experimentation to get right, as with any new medium. If everyone just decides it is crap because a few early things didn't work out, then developers will be disincentivised to keep working on it to get to the good stuff. If MS didn't bet on it by force bundling it, it would never happen. You may not think you'll ever like any Kinect game, but MS doesn't want to force you to play Kinect games you don't like or a buy a Kinect you won't use, they just think they're enabling a Kinect game to eventually get created that you will like and don't know it yet that wouldn't happen otherwise. And lastly, as for the Kinect being always-on, whether you want to use them or not, it does enable some user-facing features like turning the thing on by voice command. The downside is only the fear of spying. It may be a rational fear given all that has come to light lately, but doesn't mean MS actually intends to do that. I seriously doubt that they do. Should they really have cut a feature from the start just because of what people might have been afraid they might do that they had no intention of doing?

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Re: XBox One

Postby Xanthir » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:38 am UTC

sparkyb wrote:Tying games to consoles/accounts on a server allows you to play without having to swap disks

This just requires an install, which current-gen consoles have allowed for a long time. This requires no more DRM than the game itself does.

play at a friends house without having to bring the game or your friend owning it

This is a benefit, though it requires a lengthy download first, so carrying a disc may still actually be more convenient.

and trade your license with a friend digitally (for a small fee)

With discs, this is called "handing the disc to your friend", and is free.
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Re: XBox One

Postby Xeio » Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:01 am UTC

Xanthir wrote:
sparkyb wrote:Tying games to consoles/accounts on a server allows you to play without having to swap disks

This just requires an install, which current-gen consoles have allowed for a long time. This requires no more DRM than the game itself does.
The disk is the DRM, installs don't let you party diskless. Otherwise you could install the game then sell the disk.

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Koa
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Re: XBox One

Postby Koa » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:54 am UTC

sparkyb wrote:I disagree with your way of looking at it, I think that is much too pessimistic.

I'd call it reasonable skepticism. I don't like assuming that I'm being screwed by the big bad companies either, but I'll look at the facts and make my own judgements. They explained a bunch of policies that negatively affects consumers, and merely alluded to the way in which it would positively affect consumers. I think the people who defend MS in this whole fiasco are reading far too much into those allusions and aren't rationalizing what the changes truly represent.

If they want to bundle kinect with their console, I'm okay with that. It's not ideal for people who don't care for it and could have paid less for the console, but they're free to sell their product at whatever price they like. If they want to force the kinect to be connected and fully operational for the xbox to function, I'm not okay with that. There's no good reason for that on top of there being several reason why you wouldn't want that. It increases the malfunction rate of the console by adding a hardware requirement, it limits options in console resale/trade, it feels like its been shoved down your throat... There's no good reason why the kinect couldn't have an on/off/listen mode and several reasons why you wouldn't want it to be always on. There's the paranoia of government and megacorporations, and then there's simply the limiting of options/capability for the consumer. You would have to address both and then tell me why I would want it at all before I would support it. It's extremely narrow-sighted to only shrug off the first concern as an unlikely conspiracy while also ignoring the other. If you don't care, you will get taken advantage of eventually.

I'll play kinect games if and when I want to, and I certainly don't at this point. If it's a vicious cycle of lack of interest in the hardware leading to a lack of development in the software, having the kinect bundled with the console should be enough to remedy that. That argument can't be extended to justify the other limitations in my opinion.

Above all else, people should never be dragged kicking and screaming anywhere in this context, even when the anywhere is towards corruption and monopolization (the frog boiling analogy). Imagine if everyone was forced to adopt Windows 7 (we kind of were in little ways, but that's another topic), thus prompting MS never to fix the issues with it because there was no money incentive to do so. It would only benefit MS, and likewise in this case, you haven't and can't explain how the positives outweigh the negatives. We never got the details. Since they backed out, I think it's safer to assume that it wasn't the case. Otherwise they would have cleared the confusion and not thrown the millions in contracts, R&D, and general PR out the window.

This is all kind of a pointless argument now, even petty, but I wanted to explain that your veil of optimism and defending MS is making it harder for the rest of us by not considering these issues. You can be a sucker if you like and ignore your diminishing consumer rights, but don't argue that it's a good thing unless you have some stronger ideas. And to speak to the pettiness, I think I'm a little more passionate about it because it's depressing enough to see the industry become increasingly top heavy and watching games and franchises and studios crippled under it without hearing gamers argue that it's a good thing.


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