Thief (2014)

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

Moderators: SecondTalon, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
SecondTalon
SexyTalon
Posts: 26518
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 2:10 pm UTC
Location: Louisville, Kentucky, USA, Mars. HA!
Contact:

Thief (2014)

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:58 pm UTC

I only needed to read the top left quote to instantly lose all interest.

You have been informed.

I'm gonna go get that Doom 3 mod.
heuristically_alone wrote:I want to write a DnD campaign and play it by myself and DM it myself.
heuristically_alone wrote:I have been informed that this is called writing a book.

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4582
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:47 pm UTC

Sounds like it will be an Assassin's Creed clone.

User avatar
Adam H
Posts: 1267
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:36 pm UTC

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby Adam H » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:54 pm UTC

That entire picture is supposed to make the game look bad, right? Though I bet the game designers would pat themselves on the back after reading it... smh. Do people really want to pay $60 for a game they already have?
-Adam

User avatar
Diemo
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:43 pm UTC

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby Diemo » Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:13 pm UTC

Poster wrote:There is also an experience system ... silently taking down a guard doesn't give the player experience, but point blank headshots on alerted enemies with the bow grant 40XP per shot


Why would I want to be sneaky then?

Also, one of my favorite thief memories is fighting me way in throught the front doors of the first mission in Thief 1. It was, well, hard. That aspect seems to be gone entirely.
In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
--Douglas Adams

User avatar
Will
There are about a million things I can do from behind
Posts: 2256
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:12 pm UTC
Location: St. Heraldwulf's Stone
Contact:

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby Will » Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:59 pm UTC

I believe they removed the xp system. Like, a month ago. The fact that they're still making such massive changes to the game this late in development just adds more fuel to the "they clearly have no fucking clue what they're doing" fire.

Also the fact that they refused to use Garrett's original voice actor because he couldn't do his own mocap.

Seriously, every single thing I hear about this game makes me less interested.
Meaux_Pas: Is it fucking Taint Sunday or something?
liza: Screw y'all, I'm going to the moon

User avatar
SecondTalon
SexyTalon
Posts: 26518
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 2:10 pm UTC
Location: Louisville, Kentucky, USA, Mars. HA!
Contact:

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:15 pm UTC

...wait, so they don't want the voice actor because he's a 40+ year old dude (I can't find how old Stephen Russell is, oddly) who can't bounce around like a squirrel on crystal meth?

So.. do they refuse food from a chef who cannot field dress a cow too?
heuristically_alone wrote:I want to write a DnD campaign and play it by myself and DM it myself.
heuristically_alone wrote:I have been informed that this is called writing a book.

User avatar
Will
There are about a million things I can do from behind
Posts: 2256
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:12 pm UTC
Location: St. Heraldwulf's Stone
Contact:

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby Will » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:48 pm UTC

They said they wanted the same person to do the voice work and the mocap. Because apparently nobody told them they're making a video game and not a fucking movie.
Meaux_Pas: Is it fucking Taint Sunday or something?
liza: Screw y'all, I'm going to the moon

User avatar
Koa
Posts: 537
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:20 am UTC

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby Koa » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:00 am UTC

They gave the same reason with Splinter Cell Blacklist, though Ironside said in interviews that he didn't like the direction they were taking the character (making him more generic and callous). I get the impression that the PR firms for Eidos and Ubisoft Montreal (both very close companies, several of their employees have been in both and they operate in the same city) have the same idea for how to spin this and will be making the same mistake. I don't think anyone embraced the new Sam Fisher as canonical. Writing this I couldn't even remember his name when I was picturing his face in Blacklist. I had to think of the older games to recall it. It's possible that Russel turned down the role in Thief and hasn't spoken about it to avoid burning bridges, but I find that a little less likely. Then again, the mocap explanation holds much less water here since it's largely a first person game.

User avatar
Thesh
Made to Fuck Dinosaurs
Posts: 6579
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:55 am UTC
Location: Colorado

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby Thesh » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:38 am UTC

So reading only a little bit of the top left, maybe we should call this "Thief's Creed?"
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

User avatar
Diemo
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:43 pm UTC

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby Diemo » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:28 pm UTC

Reading the top left, the only hope is that he followed that quote with

"And we told those people to suck it, because they clearly know jack shit!"
In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
--Douglas Adams

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby Mishrak » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:57 pm UTC

"We want you to play as a thief but we don't want to force you to play as a thief." Then why is the game called Thief?!?!?!?!

I guess Thief 2 will remain the high water mark.

User avatar
SecondTalon
SexyTalon
Posts: 26518
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 2:10 pm UTC
Location: Louisville, Kentucky, USA, Mars. HA!
Contact:

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:29 pm UTC

Mishrak wrote:"We want you to play as a thief but we don't want to force you to play as a thief." Then why is the game called Thief?!?!?!?!


"I purchased your Madden 2015 and was disappointed. The "game" .. and I use that term loosely.. was nothing more than a bunch of nearly identical people wearing multicolored uniforms with numbers on them charging around a field with a ball. The entire point seemed to simply be to transport the ball from one end to another OR to stop the others from transporting the ball to the other side. I say OR because it really should be an AND. The complexity and depth would be increased tenfold if both sides had their own ball, or perhaps several different balls with different capabilities, like one that allowed you to fly or one that gives a fire attack. Which this game desperately needs as the only "attack" I even found was to run in to an opponent and bring them to the ground with a bear hug... and then my avatar got up and allowed the enemy not only to live, but to participate in the next play. Which brings up another thing - why is the game in a bizarre real-time turn-based hybrid? Sometimes the game waits for you to make choices, and then you're suddenly thrust into a real-time event that might as well be a QTE as you basically just push a few buttons before you're wrestled to the ground, maybe sometimes you throw the ball and then the catcher gets wrestled to the ground.

I also found the storyline incredibly difficult to follow in that.. there was no story. Not that I could see. Everyone had a name, yet they didn't really speak to each other, I couldn't tell who was romancing who and... well, while I applaud you for your incredible support of alternative sexualities, at the same time it's pretty clear you're only supporting homosexual men. Where are the homosexual women? Or any women, for that matter? There's some outside of the playing area in dresses who jump around, but you cannot talk or interact with them at all.

I'm sorry, I'm getting a little unfocused. Let me just summarize my points.

1. Get rid of the hybrid - either be turn based and allow pausing in combat, or have everything real-time. Especially since you put so much focus on "calling plays" yet do not let us change much once we see what our opponent is doing.

2. More non-homosexual men Romance options. And flesh out the gay men options too, as even those have no real character and kinda suck (no pun intended). I mean, really, I'm only assuming there's romance with the occasional butt patting. That's how bad it is, I don't know who is romancing who.

3. More variation in party appearance. I should be able to tell Rodriguez from Hammond by more than just height, forearm color, number and name on the back. Put Rodriguez in spandex and Hammond in platemail or something. Or at least describe the space army we're all with to explain the uniforms. And get rid of the damn helmets - I know they give armor bonuses, but give us a NoHelmet option so we can SEE what our people look like. That's half the point.

4. More combat options. Your current ones are horrible and pretty much all nonlethal. WTF.

5. Better story explaining the gladiator area we're in, and why there are basically no defenses to keep us from escaping yet we never attempt to escape.

6. WOMEN. Come the fuck on, EA. It's 2014. Where the fuck are the female soldiers?

7. Better description on what we're doing. I know this ties in with #5 but.. seriously, are we an army, are we gladiators, are we a simulation of a corporate network break in like something out of Hackers? As is, it looks like we're just a bunch of guys throwing a ball around a field. The fuck is that?

8. Ball changes. More balls in play, more ball effects.

9. And while we're at it, change the ball model. It's referred to as a ball, but that's clearly an oblong shape of some kind.. is it an egg?

Change these things, EA, and your next Madden should be almost as good as Mass Effect.

Signed,

RPGFan78"
heuristically_alone wrote:I want to write a DnD campaign and play it by myself and DM it myself.
heuristically_alone wrote:I have been informed that this is called writing a book.

User avatar
pseudoidiot
Sexy Beard Man
Posts: 5100
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:30 pm UTC
Location: Kansas City
Contact:

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby pseudoidiot » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:47 pm UTC

A+ would read again.
Derailed : Gaming Outside the Box.
SecondTalon wrote:*swoons* I love you, all powerful pseudoidiot!
ShootTheChicken wrote:I can't stop thinking about pseudoidiot's penis.

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby Mishrak » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:57 pm UTC

ST #1. Winner of many internets.

Dark567
First one to notify the boards of Rick and Morty Season 3
Posts: 3686
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:12 pm UTC
Location: Everywhere(in the US, I don't venture outside it too often, unfortunately)

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby Dark567 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:28 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:1. Get rid of the hybrid - either be turn based and allow pausing in combat, or have everything real-time. Especially since you put so much focus on "calling plays" yet do not let us change much once we see what our opponent is doing.
Dude....
Audibles and hot routes.
I apologize, 90% of the time I write on the Fora I am intoxicated.


Yakk wrote:The question the thought experiment I posted is aimed at answering: When falling in a black hole, do you see the entire universe's future history train-car into your ass, or not?

User avatar
SecondTalon
SexyTalon
Posts: 26518
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 2:10 pm UTC
Location: Louisville, Kentucky, USA, Mars. HA!
Contact:

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:47 pm UTC

1. Get rid of the hybrid - either be turn based and allow pausing in combat, or have everything real-time. Especially since you put so much focus on "calling plays" yet do not let us change much once we see what our opponent is doing.


Now, I might be completely wrong as it's been every bit of ... 20 years since I've played a football game on a system of any sort, but from what I've seen it doesn't appear that audibles and the like allow you the same control as selecting the play in the beginning does. So you don't have access to all 40 of the rush plays, just 5 of them, or less. But perhaps I'm mistaken there. I'll admit that one was the one I had the least experience on and wasn't quite sure how accurate it was.

And a hot route looks like it's just an emergency modification, not a complete rebuild of the play.
heuristically_alone wrote:I want to write a DnD campaign and play it by myself and DM it myself.
heuristically_alone wrote:I have been informed that this is called writing a book.

User avatar
mosc
Doesn't care what you think.
Posts: 5403
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 3:03 pm UTC

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby mosc » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:23 pm UTC

ST, that was WAY more thought effort into Madden than goes into your typical Madden review. I mean, what a waste lol.
Title: It was given by the XKCD moderators to me because they didn't care what I thought (I made some rantings, etc). I care what YOU think, the joke is forums.xkcd doesn't care what I think.

User avatar
kiniget
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:34 am UTC
Location: the great northwest
Contact:

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby kiniget » Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:00 pm UTC

judging by the last trailer I saw it looked like it was shaping up to be a Dishonered clone
but Dishonered was already more or less a Thief 3 clone anyways so it still might work
(I actually enjoyed Thief 3, is that so wrong?)

User avatar
SecondTalon
SexyTalon
Posts: 26518
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 2:10 pm UTC
Location: Louisville, Kentucky, USA, Mars. HA!
Contact:

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:57 pm UTC

There was no Thief 3.


So yes.
heuristically_alone wrote:I want to write a DnD campaign and play it by myself and DM it myself.
heuristically_alone wrote:I have been informed that this is called writing a book.

User avatar
kiniget
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:34 am UTC
Location: the great northwest
Contact:

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby kiniget » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:20 pm UTC

yeah, but Shalebridge Cradle
I rest my case
was once kinigget

still the most gothic unicorn ever

Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from technology
-Agatha Heterodyne

User avatar
kiniget
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:34 am UTC
Location: the great northwest
Contact:

Re: Theif (2014)

Postby kiniget » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:41 am UTC

okay, I'm aware that this is a double post but dammit it's been a week and the game is out now

anyway

it looks like most of my suspicions were true and it recursively borrowed a lot of stuff from Thief 3 via Dishonered. That said, there's still a lot of the original Thief charm: Garret's still the same snarky asshole we know and love, a lot of the old tools came back (rope arrows! Yay!), and the stealth remains focused largely on how much you can stay out of the light.

now, I'm only 2 missions in (roughly 4 or 5 hours) so I can't say much for the larger plot, but it does at least seem interesting.

So far I'd have to say that this is a game worthy of calling itself Thief
was once kinigget

still the most gothic unicorn ever

Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from technology
-Agatha Heterodyne

User avatar
Thirty-one
Posts: 342
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:13 pm UTC

Re: Theif (2014)

Postby Thirty-one » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:01 am UTC

I read a review recently that said the story was kind of shit. Wasn't the story kind of shit in Thief 2 too though (didn't play that much of 1, so won't judge that one)?
What kept me playing 2 wasn't the brilliance of the story, but rather the game maintaining a very attractive.. mood or something, despite its story.

Still haven't tried 4 (don't live in the US), but I bought it about a month ago. I got it on g2play though, because I was almost entirely sure it wouldn't be worth the full price.
Annoyed, getting worked up or bored by the post above? Help is here.

User avatar
kiniget
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:34 am UTC
Location: the great northwest
Contact:

Re: Theif (2014)

Postby kiniget » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:14 pm UTC

Thirty-one wrote:I read a review recently that said the story was kind of shit. Wasn't the story kind of shit in Thief 2 too though (didn't play that much of 1, so won't judge that one)?
What kept me playing 2 wasn't the brilliance of the story, but rather the game maintaining a very attractive.. mood or something, despite its story.

Still haven't tried 4 (don't live in the US), but I bought it about a month ago. I got it on g2play though, because I was almost entirely sure it wouldn't be worth the full price.

the Thief games have never been about the story
they've always been about stealing everything not nailed down and collecting piles of unconscious people
was once kinigget

still the most gothic unicorn ever

Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from technology
-Agatha Heterodyne

User avatar
Koa
Posts: 537
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:20 am UTC

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby Koa » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:43 pm UTC

The story is now relevant because of how cinematic they made the game. You never walked from one person to the next in Thief 2 getting exposition dumped on you. It's important that they do the story well if it's going to be such a focus. And this story is made of fluff and bad dialogue.

Oddly enough, it's not really the combat they got wrong in this game. Fighting enemies is discouraged in the sense that it takes forever to do a combat knockout. You don't even have a dagger -- all you have is the blackjack, and it's rather ineffective. Much like the other games, fleeing is your best weapon when you're caught. You're faster, and if you break line of sight they quickly lose track of you and then begin to search. I think that is done better here than any other game in the series. It's exciting, and you won't always get away.

The only connection to Dishonored that I've noticed is the interface, which is a little too similar. The gameplay doesn't feel quite like Dishonored though. The movement isn't nearly as fluid. You can't walk off most ledges, and instead have to hit a 'drop down' key. You can't jump unless you're in a context sensitive position (otherwise you "swoop", a small dash). You can't lean around a corner unless you're in a context sensitive position to initiate the peek mode. The peek mode is activated by holding down the use key for a second, so have fun trying to peek around a corner and then accidentally opening a nearby drawer or door and getting caught. Or how about swooping when you want to scale something, or peek when you're trying to open a drawer, or trying to jump to a rope and having your character hop off the ledge because the game didn't get any rope-grab contextual data to allow you to even attempt the jump. Don't forget that rope arrows can only attach to certain semi-rare beams. This stuff bugs me. So many movement aids which only serve to limit your options. At least swooping feels good. Keep the swoop, but give it its own key.

There are some missions that you can immediately fail and forced to restart from checkpoint if you're detected. They don't like it when you break their scripted sequences. This is another way that the story is made relevant. Also, entering any closet creates a checkpoint apparently.

Overall it's very cinematic, which makes me wonder if people really like that sort of thing. Funnily enough, the mocap work looks noticeably bad on Garrett specifically. He goes from stone-faced glare to muppet for the most part.

There are several small rooms all across the city that you can only enter by opening a window. The animation to enter through the window takes about 10 seconds where you don't have any control save for a mash-this-button QTE. Enter the small room, the window shuts behind you, pick up the two or so pieces of loot, then window animation time again. What a punishment for exploration.

There are also windows that will take you to other levels, but you can't tell if you're going to enter a room or load a new level unless you study the map. Then there is the animation where you squeeze between a bunch of crates and then do a mash-this-button QTE to raise a beam that is blocking the way. The city is a confusing and cobbled mess where the only way to go from one area to the other is through windows and crates, as opposed to something logical like the streets. I'm considering if this is the worst level design I've seen in a while. Turn off the hud and navigating the city is like being in an Escher painting with guards everywhere. You might go up the endless steps a few times while trying to figure out where the hell you're supposed to go.

also bugs and this guy

User avatar
Thirty-one
Posts: 342
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:13 pm UTC

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby Thirty-one » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:00 pm UTC

I've played for maybe 30-40 mins now, only taking me as far as what seems to be the end of the tutorial. Mostly my impressions line up with Koa's, it seems.

Windows are annoying to enter. The beams too.
The movement being so context sensitive removes a lot of fluidity to it, because you have to walk up to the corner, wait for the screen to tell you what key X does right there, and then decide for or against.
Rope arrows are pathetic now.
Mocap overall doesn't seem that good.
They attached the arms of Russel Brand to Garret. It now takes forever to steal a single gold coin, because of the mad flailing the arms have to do before it's yours. I much preferred the old, less realistic insta-steal.
The girl thief they paired you with is crazy annoying.
Spoiler:
Hopefully she's gone for the game after falling through that glass roof. How come supposed master thief Garret doesn't get to turn down partnerships that his fence seems to think is a good idea?

Haven't really encountered much story yet, but I've been annoyed by how often I lose control, so that the characters can interact on their own.
The bit I've played until now has been quite like a corridor. I hope the game opens up a lot in the next hour, or there won't be an hour after that.
Annoyed, getting worked up or bored by the post above? Help is here.

User avatar
Koa
Posts: 537
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:20 am UTC

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby Koa » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:02 pm UTC

Well, I finished it. As a Thief title, I think Deadly Shadows might be better. And if Deadly Shadows "doesn't exist" then I don't know what to call this. As a standalone title, it's below average but not bad.

One of my main frustrations was with how claustrophobic every level is. There were too many situations where there was no option but to interact with the guards to get by them. I'm not talking about the entrance to a palace, I'm talking Barons Way South, a basic street. There is too much light, too many guards, too little cover. You have to kill them, or distract them (distractions are less than reliable, sometimes guard AI will completely stop among other things), or make a run for it (maybe drop a flash bomb halfway), but you have to do something with them. You'll cross this street several times throughout the game, and there are many other locations just like it. The lack of options was very frustrating. Too many very static guards. Give me less guards that are just slightly more dynamic.

You rarely use your fancy tools. You can distract a guard with a blunt arrow, you can extinguish about 30% of the lights in the game with a water arrow, you can attach a rope arrow to the 40 or so valid surfaces, you can stun a small group of enemies for five seconds with choke arrows. That's about it. There's the aforementioned flash bomb and the rest are damage dealing arrows. There's an explosion arrow that can be used as a large distraction presuming you can properly take advantage of it. Fire arrows are useless without an oil flask. There are some preexisting oil patches but they're not terribly useful, and you'll only notice them when using focus.

There are options to disable focus and the minimap, navigation indicators, etc all to appease the oldschool thief fans. I dare you to play this first time through with everything off. The game is designed around their existence.

The game punishes you a few times for not looking through every keyhole by having a guard on the other side of the door doing absolutely nothing but staring it at it like a hawk troll. I wouldn't mind this at all if they were a little less contrived about it.

mildlyinteresting: you can tell if you're going to loot something when searching because garrett's right hand starts to grab it before you can even see what it is.

The story is awful because nothing is established properly. I had so many half-developed questions that I eventually dropped because I realised that the game didn't care. It's shlock to keep things moving.

I could only recommend this game to the die hard thief fans who have some spare time and relaxants for the frustration. It's also for people who have never played a good stealth game, like Thief 1/2, Dishonored, Hitman Blood Money, Splinter Cell, Death To Spies, Metal Gear Solid, Batman Arkham City, and that part when you sneak into Hyrule Castle.

Thirty-one wrote:
Spoiler:
Hopefully she's gone for the game after falling through that glass roof. How come supposed master thief Garret doesn't get to turn down partnerships that his fence seems to think is a good idea?

Spoiler:
How come he didn't shoot her with his grapple hook as she fell? A moment later the rest of the glass collapses and he grapples onto someone to save his fall. I guess there wouldn't have been that whole unfinished side plot, then. It's too easy to criticise the story.

User avatar
Thirty-one
Posts: 342
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:13 pm UTC

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby Thirty-one » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:08 pm UTC

Sounds like I'll be wasting my next hour then. I guess I'll be going straight for the bank level after that. As I remember it, it was pretty much the best level of Thief 2. I hope they've done it justice.
Annoyed, getting worked up or bored by the post above? Help is here.

User avatar
Koa
Posts: 537
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:20 am UTC

Re: Thief (2014)

Postby Koa » Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:26 pm UTC

I got compelled to complete ironman mode and after a few failures I found myself speed running. I've been scouting out routes for a full playthrough, but the first segment I'm happy with is chapter 6 at 9:37. Obviously I'm not looting anything and blazing through patrols. I find it pretty fun when I'm moving fast, especially since I'm exploiting some of the bullshit the game has rather than the other way around.


Return to “Gaming”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests