Team Fortress 2

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Derek
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Derek » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:00 am UTC

Amishdemon wrote:anyone wanna trade for some vintage weps?

Are you buying or selling? (That's one thing I hate about the word "trading", it can go either direction)

I have just got TF2 and I've been playing against bots so I can try to suck less.
Any general tips for when I go ONLINE and play with real people? Stuff I should do? Stuff I shouldn't do? Any vocabulary that'll confuse me? Anything strategies and tips or I don't know just throw words at me?

That's kind of too vague to give a good answer. Just go online and wing it. If you have a question, the wiki most likely has an answer.

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Vapour
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Vapour » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:52 am UTC

broken_escalator wrote:
Vapour wrote:I've got a horrific headsplitter and some unused paints and strange Gloves of running urgently x2

I'll trade one of the strange for one of the strange GRU! Only problem is that my windows 7 updated today and now I crash pretty much anytime I access loadout or a server. It looks like I'm not alone according to the steam forum :(

No idea how to fix it, so sad.


Deal!

Oh dear, I'm using Win 7, hope it gets fixed soon. =/

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Technical Ben » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:00 pm UTC

As to ways to play, heavy or medic can be easy.
Heavy, jyou can protect an area. Keep close to a medi pack, or a medic. Don't rush forward, and keep in the crowd for protection. Fire at anything that gets close. Switch to shotty or sandwich when you need to.
Medic, heal everyone. If you heal those pushing forward, your bound to get lots of points from assists too. Don't rush into enemies.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Numzane » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:23 pm UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:Anyway, I've been coaching one of my friends. He's decided to go Demo, and I've been giving him advice that will be incredibly useful seeing as I only ever play Demo on Degroot.

Help?

The sticky launcher is one of the best weapons in the game and is great for new demos because stickies have a large splash radius and crit stickies are ridiculous so you can always just get lucky and kill everything. Many (bad) demos use the sticky launcher almost exclusively because it's that good. Sticky jumping is an invaluable skill to learn, since you can use it to travel very quickly.

The grenade launcher is extremely effective, but it takes some practice to get used to hitting things. A couple direct hits with grenades kills most non-overhealed classes. The downside is that most of the times you miss your grenades won't do anything at all. Grenades still make for effective spam at long range though.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby CombustibleLemons » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:34 pm UTC

Does the medic have a domination voice thing becuase i got at least 4 dominations today and nothing happened
You, sir, name? wrote:Just make sure to consistently whack it in the ass, as that's one end it does not shoot fire out of. Be careless with the flame-magic and it may just shoot fire out both ends.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby The Scyphozoa » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:23 pm UTC

Amishdemon wrote:Does the medic have a domination voice thing becuase i got at least 4 dominations today and nothing happened

He only laughs. If dominating two or more people, he can also say, "Would you like a second opinion? You are also ugly!"

You know, when I started playing last Tuesday, everyone was wearing hats. More recently, I don't see hats very often. This is probably because the F2P thing got around to more people than the free week thing did, and now there are lots of new players. I kind of like the game better with less hats. They're really distracting.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Toeofdoom » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:22 pm UTC

Numzane wrote:
SirBryghtside wrote:Anyway, I've been coaching one of my friends. He's decided to go Demo, and I've been giving him advice that will be incredibly useful seeing as I only ever play Demo on Degroot.

Help?

The sticky launcher is one of the best weapons in the game and is great for new demos because stickies have a large splash radius and crit stickies are ridiculous so you can always just get lucky and kill everything. Many (bad) demos use the sticky launcher almost exclusively because it's that good. Sticky jumping is an invaluable skill to learn, since you can use it to travel very quickly.

The grenade launcher is extremely effective, but it takes some practice to get used to hitting things. A couple direct hits with grenades kills most non-overhealed classes. The downside is that most of the times you miss your grenades won't do anything at all. Grenades still make for effective spam at long range though.

Since playing with the charging targe and ullapool caber I've been forced to learn to aim with the grenade launcher... it's pretty fantastic now that I can use it properly. Also, for some reason targe + caber seems to be an effective strategy. :shock:

On that note, does anyone have a splendid screen to trade me? I'm not especially attached to my ali baba's booties, disciplinary action or soda popper
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby broken_escalator » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:35 pm UTC

Oddly I find it easier to aim the Loch-N-Load, but the lack of clip size and grenade bounce makes it less useful imo. I still use it for the challenge :)

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Derek » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:04 am UTC

broken_escalator wrote:Oddly I find it easier to aim the Loch-N-Load, but the lack of clip size and grenade bounce makes it less useful imo. I still use it for the challenge :)

Nothing odd about that. It shoots faster. Its not sufficiently easier to justify losing half your ammo though, not to mention the increased self damage and loss of rollers.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby The Scyphozoa » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:19 am UTC

So, does anyone else notice that the Hevy has basically gotten nothing that really changes it? Just a large gun and a shotgun/food. Whereas other classes' items,make significant changes to how you would play, eg targe, huntsman/jarate, most spy items...
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Vaniver » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:24 am UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:So, does anyone else notice that the Hevy has basically gotten nothing that really changes it? Just a large gun and a shotgun/food. Whereas other classes' items,make significant changes to how you would play, eg targe, huntsman/jarate, most spy items...
Are there good alternate heavy strategies? It seems the most constrained of the classes.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Toeofdoom » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:37 am UTC

You know the heavy didn't originally have the sandvich, right? The other weapons (especially fists of steel/GRU) affect how the heavy plays quite a bit too.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Vaniver » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:02 am UTC

He mentioned food, or is that you me?
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby The Scyphozoa » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:48 am UTC

Toeofdoom wrote:You know the heavy didn't originally have the sandvich, right? The other weapons (especially fists of steel/GRU) affect how the heavy plays quite a bit too.

Well, yeah, but still. Trade an alternate weapon for a minor buff/heal, still not much of a change. The fists, I guess that's a little more significant.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby broken_escalator » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:07 am UTC

Fists of Steel + steak was a pretty strong combination, and you still see a few people get killed by it. And shotgun heavy would work better if you didn't have to account for his super slow movespeed.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Beardhammer » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:24 am UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:So, does anyone else notice that the Hevy has basically gotten nothing that really changes it? Just a large gun and a shotgun/food. Whereas other classes' items,make significant changes to how you would play, eg targe, huntsman/jarate, most spy items...


Huntsman doesn't change Sniper fundamentally, same way none of the different miniguns change Heavy in a fundamental way. Jarate adds some new concepts to Sniper, but so does Sandvich (it can be dropped to be used as a medpack by others.) Spy items don't necessarily change the way a class operates fundamentally, though (like nearly every other unlockable) it changes a specific method of operation.

Demoknight is around because Demoman didn't need anything new for his update, but they had to put in something. Ironically I'd say Ullapool, Scottish Resistance, and Loch n Load are all brilliant ideas, but really... where do you go from there? The Engineer is running into the same problem, which is probably why he didn't get anything new this update.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Derek » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:24 am UTC

broken_escalator wrote:Fists of Steel + steak was a pretty strong combination, and you still see a few people get killed by it.

Fists of Steel + Steak is the worst combination for the Heavy. The weakness of the FoS is that you take double melee damage while the FoS are out, and the steak not only forces you to use melee, it also guarrantees minicrits (+35%) on you. Combining the two means that you will takes 270% melee damage, while dealing out only 135%. Your extra health isn't going to save you.

The correct way to use FoS is to bait your enemies into meleeing you, then pull out your minigun and mow them down. The best melee to use with the Steak, meanwhile, is either the KGB (get one kill with minicrits, then full crits from there) or the bear fists (extra base damage, small health penalty).

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby broken_escalator » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:34 am UTC

FoS + steak is only "the worst" if your enemies are intelligent, and if you play on pub servers... they more than likely are not! Not to mention it used to be stronger before they nerfed the -dmg taken, but it really did work well. But seriously, most people don't react to FoS with melee, they'll shoot at you as you close in on them.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Derek » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:54 am UTC

I generally don't base my strategies on what bad players do, unless I just plan on trolling (which I do sometimes). I play as though everyone is good, and while it sometimes makes me look silly, its always effective.

Normally you don't want to melee a FoS heavy, he'll just whip out his minigun and kill you. But if he has eaten a steak, he's a free kill. Its probably the best example in the game of anti-complementary (it occurs to me that there is no good antonym for complementary) weapons.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby existential_elevator » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:00 am UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:
SirBryghtside wrote:
Menacing Spike wrote:As medic, focus on the heavy. The others don't have enough hp to make your heals effective. When endangered, switch to your needle gun or saw.

Since reading this I realised I really suck as Medic.

Damn.

If anyone is getting hit, I heal them. If not, I stick to the Heavy. When endangered, keep healing the most damage-dealing person around while trying to avoid getting hit. If no one is around, then pull out your weapons.

Also, if no-one is around and you're about to die, hit the Uber button anyway. I mean, you're about to die.

See, if you're using the vita-saw this isn't always the best strategy. You may well end up with a useless uber, and not building up to 20% before you get killed. If you're a vita-saw medic (like me) it's often better to loose and uber and take your punishment like a man, than use your uber and have to start from scratch next life.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Derek » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:24 am UTC

existential_elevator wrote:See, if you're using the vita-saw this isn't always the best strategy. You may well end up with a useless uber, and not building up to 20% before you get killed. If you're a vita-saw medic (like me) it's often better to loose and uber and take your punishment like a man, than use your uber and have to start from scratch next life.

Only if you absolutely cannot escape. Almost always you can if you pop uber you can make it to some teammate to support you and you won't have to die. In the time you would have spent respawning, you can easily charge 20%.

Always remember: Pop it, don't drop it!

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby CombustibleLemons » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:51 pm UTC

Derek wrote:
Amishdemon wrote:anyone wanna trade for some vintage weps?

Are you buying or selling? (That's one thing I hate about the word "trading", it can go either direction)

i would be selling them for one scrap metal a piece.
You, sir, name? wrote:Just make sure to consistently whack it in the ass, as that's one end it does not shoot fire out of. Be careless with the flame-magic and it may just shoot fire out both ends.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby broken_escalator » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:00 pm UTC

So I heard they changed the Tomislav and the new demo-sword? Any noticable difference in game, or is it still somewhat difficult to fight tomislav heavies?

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby BurningLed » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:15 pm UTC

I haven't heard about the new demo sword, but the Tomislav has 40% faster spinup now, not 70%, so it's not an instant destroyinate button anymore. Still pretty damaging though, and aside from the initial "cha-ching" it's still silent.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby broken_escalator » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:50 pm UTC

Finally started using the new shield...
It is amazing. The charge-crit at any distance makes it feel like cheating when using eyelander, and the shield bash damage is like 85+(17 * #heads) with a cap of ~5 heads. I love it :D

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby BurningLed » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:42 pm UTC

Wait, the shield bash does eighty-five damage? What? That's ridiculous. You can oneshot light classes with the shield at three heads ಠ_ಠ.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby broken_escalator » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:49 pm UTC

That what someone told me, and it seems to be true from ramming snipers, engineers and scouts.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Beardhammer » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:03 pm UTC

broken_escalator wrote:That what someone told me, and it seems to be true from ramming snipers, engineers and scouts.


Not broken at all. Nope.

Demoknight really, really needs to be removed. It serves no practical purpose to the game beyond being annoying and something that attracts noobs in droves -_-

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Vapour » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:19 pm UTC

Panknight No.1

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Box Boy » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:08 pm UTC

As someone who loves Demoknight, imma need you to explain how it adds nothing to the game, despite the fact several weapons have clearly been made for it.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Xeio » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:47 pm UTC

Box Boy wrote:As someone who loves Demoknight, imma need you to explain how it adds nothing to the game, despite the fact several weapons have clearly been made for it.
Making demo better at melee than pyro is silly, particularly given it's also the strongest range class.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Beardhammer » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:02 pm UTC

Box Boy wrote:As someone who loves Demoknight, imma need you to explain how it adds nothing to the game, despite the fact several weapons have clearly been made for it.


Why Demoman? Why take the strongest ranged class in the game, and then give him the potential to be the strongest melee class in the game? Why not give it to the Pyro, who is the most close-combat focused class? Even the Heavy (who also prefers close range combat) would be a better choice.

You might as well give a Sniper a shotgun or let the Medic lug around an autocannon. It completely destroys the theme of the class. Proof of this? How often do you see Demomen using bits and pieces of the Demoknight getup? Very rarely. Now that the booties are in the game, you're more likely to see shield+sword+booties than you are anything else. Likewise, for a Demoman who actually wants to play Demoman, the sticky launcher is so important there's no way they're giving it up for some silly little shield that lets you scream and zip around - it's not even close to being an equal tradeoff.

Essentially, Demoknight is a 10th class. I guess it makes sense for him, since he was the one class that didn't need ANY new items (Soldier came close, but I think everyone can agree every single Soldier unlock so far has been fantastic and keeps the class' theme intact), but why did the game need a dedicated "melee class" to begin with? Spy kinda already fills that role, since Spies are primarily used for backstabbing and sappers, only using the revolver here and there (when a backstab is out of the question and there's nothing nearby that needs sapping.) Pyro also increasingly fills this role with the advent of the Degreaser further solidifying puff and sting as a core part of Pyro gameplay. Hell, even Heavy and Scout also feature melee as a significant part of gameplay, depending on loadout (if you use steak, melee is a part of your gameplay, and Scout's always used the bat frequently.) So why, really, did we need a 10th melee-only class?

The worst part is that Demoknight absolutely destroys the class's image, more than any dumb little hat or medal or whatever ever could. It's also why I despise hats - I think Valve had a fantastic, cohesive art style for TF2 when it first came out, and now the plethora of hats kind of dilute it. It's still the comical, goofy style, but it just seems... diminished by all of it. But it makes them buckets of money and I'd say they've more than earned it, so whatever. Why are you giving the ranged class focused on indirect ranged, AOE combat a freaking medieval shield and a claymore? How in the hell do you go from remote explosives and grenades to a sword and a shield and charging wildly around? Like I said, it'd be like giving the Medic an autocannon or the Sniper a shotgun - it defeats the purpose of the class and wrecks the class image.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby broken_escalator » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:12 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:
Box Boy wrote:As someone who loves Demoknight, imma need you to explain how it adds nothing to the game, despite the fact several weapons have clearly been made for it.
Making demo better at melee than pyro is silly, particularly given it's also the strongest range class.

Killing melee demo as a pyro is shit simple... puff and sting is all you need.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Tyr_oathkeeper » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:01 am UTC

But, you're ignoring one fact. Demoknight is fun.
The claymore and shield do fit with the ingame theme for the demo, fairly well, if not the existing mechanical role. So yes, it is a sort of tenth class.
It's not like demo can be the best spammer and a demoknight at the same time.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby The Scyphozoa » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:14 am UTC

Since unlocking the Flare Gun, Pyro has been a lot of fun. Cheeky flare gun hits on retreating burning enemies are so awesome.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Beardhammer » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:02 am UTC

Tyr_oathkeeper wrote:But, you're ignoring one fact. Demoknight is fun.
The claymore and shield do fit with the ingame theme for the demo, fairly well, if not the existing mechanical role. So yes, it is a sort of tenth class.
It's not like demo can be the best spammer and a demoknight at the same time.


Demoknight is also patently useless in a team setting, and Valve's essentially encouraging players to ignore the needs of the team over their own desire to idiotically charge around swinging a sword. There is no situation on a normal map where a well-played Demoknight is more useful to the team than a well-played Demoman.

And, again, how are swords and shields applicable to a class designed and themed around explosives and indirect ranged combat? They aren't.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Vapour » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:17 am UTC

Heads must always roll.

In CQC, a Demoknight will beat a Demoman hands down.
In the open, a Demonknight has a better chance than a Demoman.
A Demoknight can still carry a grenade launcher.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Toeofdoom » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:24 pm UTC

I'd say a caberknight can be pretty handy in some circumstances - for example, clearing a final control point. Or charging into an engi nest that's distracted, instantly killing any engis and distracting the guns further for your team to finish. Not to mention you obviously survive longer. A regular demo can have trouble doing either of those things and with the grenade launcher you can still do quite a lot of area control/damage. Of course, that loadout still has 2 "demo" weapons. More generally I find the demoknight has an easier time taking out medics/snipers that would be in the back.

Anyway, I play it because it's fun - it's easy enough to switch back to stickies if you really need to take down sentries or hold a position. Otherwise I'm not convinced it's less effective once you learn to aim grenades.

I do agree with all the bits about it not being very demo-like (with the exception of caberknight) and ali baba's booties just seem stupid. The one upside is that I can troll my own team by running around with booties, targe and caber.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby broken_escalator » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:19 pm UTC

I love finding demomen that use the booties and shield, I can just airblast them around as pyro and play with them. Then when I'm tired of that I'll just axtinguish them. I don't think I've run into a booties demoknight that was actually a threat, since I know they can't shoot at me.

Its odd, I don't feel useless when I destroy the other team using demoknight. Being able to one-shot most classes, having increased explosion & fire resistance, and still fire demo-spam grenades seems pretty useful. Oh, but wait, if you can't play demo w/o stickybombs you're doing it wrong apparently.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Vapour » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:39 pm UTC

Its a rare sight to see a Demoman use Stickybombs offensively. Rather than camping with them.


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