Oblivion

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Re: Oblivion

Postby Hench » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:39 pm UTC

Sounds like you picked Argonian. They can breathe underwater 'cuz they're lizard people.
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Re: Oblivion

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:41 pm UTC

Yep, because in real life there's..... uh.... alli..no...... um...

I think they did that because they didn't really have in place a system for one race to have a ludicrous breath meter while the others run out fairly quickly. Or because Argonians have gills and I've just never noticed. One of the two.

So, everyone else agree that the "easiest" race to play is Dark Elf?
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Re: Oblivion

Postby Hench » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:43 pm UTC

Yeah, I'd say so. I personally don't care, though, as they fit well with the kind of characters I like to play.
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Re: Oblivion

Postby pieaholicx » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:45 pm UTC

No actually, it's a custom race. Supposed to be something of a mix between wood elves, and some kind of human. Oh well, it works pretty well for me. I also got a few extra classes, but ended up making my own anyway. Took specialties in Blade, Destruction, Light Armor, Sneak, Marksman, Acrobatics, and Athletics.
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Re: Oblivion

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:48 pm UTC

Well.. I personally never liked the extra races addons, as they don't fit. As for custom classes addons...I mean, before throwing race into the mix, there's 5,232,600 possible combinations. The notion of an addon adding in a "Darkblade" that's essentially a warrior with sneak instead of heavy armor or something is... silly. I already think there's too many classes... Barbarian, Knight, and Warrior are all essentially the same thing with variations a person could come up with rather easily, so....

Then there's the argument of min-maxing your leveling strategy so as to maximize the +5 bonus as you level...

But I digress.
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Re: Oblivion

Postby pieaholicx » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:53 pm UTC

I just like it when they come up with one that fits what I'd be taking anyway so I don't have to come up with a name. As for the race, they come up with some backstory for them. Don't think I get much in the way of powers either, though I'd have to find more details on the race first.
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Re: Oblivion

Postby Tei » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:23 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Well.. I personally never liked the extra races addons, as they don't fit. As for custom classes addons...I mean, before throwing race into the mix, there's 5,232,600 possible combinations. The notion of an addon adding in a "Darkblade" that's essentially a warrior with sneak instead of heavy armor or something is... silly. I already think there's too many classes... Barbarian, Knight, and Warrior are all essentially the same thing with variations a person could come up with rather easily, so....

Then there's the argument of min-maxing your leveling strategy so as to maximize the +5 bonus as you level...

But I digress.


You comment made me want to play as a giant :D

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Re: Oblivion

Postby Amnesiasoft » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:32 am UTC

Remembered another important one yet again, Retroactive Health. Prevents you from having to madly rush your endurance up to 100 to get the most health.

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Re: Oblivion

Postby Benitosimies » Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:47 am UTC

хлэб и Воля

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Re: Oblivion

Postby Skateside » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:20 pm UTC

Dark Elves are definately handy, but I usually find myself playing with Wood Elves because I like the marksman head-start
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Re: Oblivion

Postby Insignificant Deifaction » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:02 am UTC

Come to think of it, it would be interesting to be able to play as some of the creatures you encounter such as zombies/ghosts/skeletons and minor races like goblins.
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Re: Oblivion

Postby Gunfingers » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:41 pm UTC

It may not be quite what you're looking for, but the "Zombie Races" mod allows you to play as a human/elf/khajiit/argonian zombie. You're pretty much the same as normal except your skin is all blue/green and bloody. Also you have to eat brains. I think this mod also makes it so that other undead will like you when you meat them. Haven't tested this yet.

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Re: Oblivion

Postby Rippy » Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:13 pm UTC

I've spent so many hours on this game. Easily over 100 in this past year. In terms of replay value, it's the best game I've ever had. Last time I stopped playing was when I completed my stealth/marksman character's set of 100% chameleon armour, rendering him completely invisible. It gets boring quickly. When you attack people they just panic and start running away. Then I also have a mage with a set of shield enchanted armour, basically making her invincible. I've had tons of fun creating spells and armour.

By the way, by far the most fun I've been able to have in Oblivion:
1. Obtain the "rally" and "frenzy" spells. Create two spells, one to cast maximum rally and one to cast maximum frenzy, for as long as you're able (at least 30 seconds or so). Make them close range spells.
2. In town, find a person and cast rally on them. Then immediately cast frenzy on them.
3. This has two notable effects. First and foremost, they'll start attacking people at random, and will not run away. They get quickly killed by the guards or by other townpeople. But also fun is that this means you get no penalty for killing them in this state, since they provoked it.

In one of my saves, I've worked very hard to kill all the NPCs I can find. Towns are ghost towns, apart from the characters who won't die.

Also, for an easy ~$2000, go kill off everyone in the skooma den. Noone will know, and you'll end up with about 30 non-stolen skoomas, to be sold for tons of money. Useful in the early stage of the game.

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Re: Oblivion

Postby Skateside » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:17 am UTC

Rippy wrote:By the way, by far the most fun I've been able to have in Oblivion:
1. Obtain the "rally" and "frenzy" spells. Create two spells, one to cast maximum rally and one to cast maximum frenzy, for as long as you're able (at least 30 seconds or so). Make them close range spells.
2. In town, find a person and cast rally on them. Then immediately cast frenzy on them.
3. This has two notable effects. First and foremost, they'll start attacking people at random, and will not run away. They get quickly killed by the guards or by other townpeople. But also fun is that this means you get no penalty for killing them in this state, since they provoked it.

I've tried it since reading it and it is really fun. I just need to work on making a spell poerful enough to affect the guards...

The most fun I'd ever really had in Oblivion was trashing stores with the ever popular Weak Fireball spell :twisted:
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Re: Oblivion

Postby SpitValve » Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:44 pm UTC

The most fun I had in Oblivion was exploiting the xbox item duplication bug to cover shop floors with a hundred human ribcages.

Or using it to duplicate my lightning staff and running around shocking things forever. Oblivion becomes an FPS ;)

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Re: Oblivion

Postby Æshættr » Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:52 am UTC

I've seen PJ's Spell Compendium mentioned, but I don't think anyone has mentioned his disco spell which is loads of fun.

Anyway, there were tons of things that I loved about both Morrowind and Oblivion and things that I didn't like about both. Both were easily broken with 100% chameleon armor (or in Morrowind there was also 100% sanctuary, which more or less broke non-magical combat.) I've invested well over 200 hours in both games, but I have to say that I like Oblivion better. Don't get me wrong, I miss stuff like throwing knives/ninja stars, polearms, crossbows, and the like from Morrowind, but I hated the hit-or-miss combat. Sure it had more of a tabletop RPG feel, but when the sword actually goes through the other character from being so close, it really should hit with every swing. Also, in Morrowind, the spellcasting was completely outclassed by even mediocre enchantments (where you can shoot 50-foot radius fireballs out of a shield before your opponent can even get their hand-casted spell to work once.)

While Morrowind's quests were difficult at times (finding the tomb where all of those ghosts of failed Neravarines were, WTF, that was the most obnoxiously obscure and difficult to find cave), at least they didn't tell you outright where to go like Oblivion did with the compass, that seemed a bit too easy.

And was it just me, or did the combat in Oblivion seem to get easier as you went up in level? I mean, with all of the enchanted items you come across, it's pretty hard not to turn into an unbeatable beast. The last time I played unmodded Oblivion I had something like 58% reflect damage, ~80% summed absorb and reflect spell, and enough shielding to give me max armor as well as some extra strength on my armor/accessories. People would die from hitting me too hard.

I had thought of giving Deadly Reflexes a try, but I already have quite a few mods installed and I'm not sure what all plays nicely together. Midas Magic is another fun one, it has an interesting Steam Centurion companion that also acts as a mount (it's a transformer, how cool is that?)

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Re: Oblivion

Postby shmack92 » Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:24 am UTC

the main flaw of oblivion is level scaling. Imagine being chased out of a cave at level 1 by goblins. Then 19 levels later you decide to come back with your newer weapons and armor and triumphantly bash some goblin heads. Instead you get chased out again, this time by Minotaur lords. Thereafter you feel like the numbers next to the "Level:" icon don't mean anything and that you get punished for increasing them.

A flaw with morrowind is its combat. Whereas oblivion would have swords and arrows resounding from realistic contact and making real damage, morrowind is completely the opposite. You can hack away all day at a peasant and make no damage, but when you do, you are rewarded with a generic "thwoomp", regardless of weapon choice. Don't be concerned about the NPC's however, their swings always cause damage, leading you to look sideways at the grime covered toes of a pauper who punched your armor clad hero into Vvardenfel soil for the fifth time.

edit: Also morrowind is more of a hostile world to newcomers, expecting them to complete labyrinthine quests in unmarked locations which are just conveniently snug into the most obscure, inaccessible area.
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Re: Oblivion

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:52 pm UTC

Æshættr wrote:And was it just me, or did the combat in Oblivion seem to get easier as you went up in level? I mean, with all of the enchanted items you come across, it's pretty hard not to turn into an unbeatable beast. The last time I played unmodded Oblivion I had something like 58% reflect damage, ~80% summed absorb and reflect spell, and enough shielding to give me max armor as well as some extra strength on my armor/accessories. People would die from hitting me too hard.


Well, I figure it depends on your playstyle, but I myself experienced a bell curve.. combat was relatively easy at level 1, hard as hell at level 14, and back to easy by 28.
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Re: Oblivion

Postby Gunfingers » Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:07 pm UTC

The level scaling is probably the most unpopular thing in Oblivion to regular players. That's why mods like Oscuro's are so popular. If you haven't already, i strongly recommend getting it and starting a new character. I know i now get the joy of going into a ruined fort and being chased out by marauders, then coming back a few levels later and torching the lot of them.

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Re: Oblivion

Postby Tei » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:45 am UTC

shmack92 wrote:edit: Also morrowind is more of a hostile world to newcomers, expecting them to complete labyrinthine quests in unmarked locations which are just conveniently snug into the most obscure, inaccessible area.


Morrowind is not a 3 hours game (Portal), is more like a 6 years game. In 6 years exploring the map, you will find everything by luck.

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Re: Oblivion

Postby Gunfingers » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:41 pm UTC

I was wandering around TESNEXUS last night, and found two things.

first, i found a mod that will make khajiit females have rows of boobies, like a real cat would. I...wow. Someone actually took the time to render that and everything. It staggers me. I couldn't tell you how well it works, as i refuse to download it.

The second thing i found was a thief's tools mod. I never played Thief, but apparantly all these tools are from that game. A knockout club, water arrows (to put out torches), gas arrows (to cause unconsciousness), noisemaker arrows, and i think some others. I would have to create a stealth character to use these, so i don't know yet how good they are. Seems cool, though.

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Re: Oblivion

Postby Skateside » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:40 pm UTC

Gunfingers wrote:The second thing i found was a thief's tools mod. I never played Thief, but apparantly all these tools are from that game. A knockout club, water arrows (to put out torches), gas arrows (to cause unconsciousness), noisemaker arrows, and i think some others. I would have to create a stealth character to use these, so i don't know yet how good they are. Seems cool, though.

That sounds really interesting - what's that one called?
Edit: nevermind, found it in the Top 100
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Re: Oblivion

Postby Schmendreck » Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:40 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
Æshættr wrote:And was it just me, or did the combat in Oblivion seem to get easier as you went up in level? I mean, with all of the enchanted items you come across, it's pretty hard not to turn into an unbeatable beast. The last time I played unmodded Oblivion I had something like 58% reflect damage, ~80% summed absorb and reflect spell, and enough shielding to give me max armor as well as some extra strength on my armor/accessories. People would die from hitting me too hard.


Well, I figure it depends on your playstyle, but I myself experienced a bell curve.. combat was relatively easy at level 1, hard as hell at level 14, and back to easy by 28.


Still didn't you find it frustrating not being able to revisit places because the enemies were scaling up? Personally, I got frustrated with the siege of Kvach and decided to comeback in a few level, by then all the enemies had been replaced with even more powerful making it even more difficult.

Another thing i didn't like was the disparity between the art-work and the stories on how evil the daedra were. In the story they aren't depicted as the soul devouring all-hating beings that they were made to be in the art work. There was even that one quest where one has you save a bunch of his followers who have trapped themselves inside his plane of oblivion. It just seems contradictory. It feels like they should just be on some other plane but one more similar to the "normal" world.
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Re: Oblivion

Postby Insignificant Deifaction » Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:15 am UTC

Level scaling proved to be a significant problem for my pure mage.

By the time I got around to Kvatch, I was greeted by a number of Storm Atronachs and Spider Daedra. If I was lucky I could take two hits from one of them. So, I was forced to use broken (but ever so slow) combat tactics to get through them. I would summon a Clannfear (it was the strongest one I could handle with 80 Conjuration) and make myself invisible.

As for the six rows of Khajiit: That's the only thing that makes sense. I'd take it just for the realism.
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Re: Oblivion

Postby Kabann » Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:32 am UTC

Level scaling was a bitch for my archer as well... I was used to Morrowind and found myself backing away frantically from "how'd those sumbitches get so tough so fast" critters in Oblivion. But one of the things I found so odd is that Oblivion seems to have too much of a console feel to it, like the PC game is just a port of the Xbox version, and I didn't like that.

Now Morrowind I played hell out of, and I really was able to get into the characters I played, and felt more like I was part of the world. I even got so attached that after I was done with the main quests and just exploring, I would get so annoyed by random attackers in the wild that I would kill 'em, pants 'em and leave 'em lying there in their shame as a warning for their friends. If I had had the ability to drag and position the bodies like in Oblivion it would have been even funnier, but not necessarily good for my sanity.
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Re: Oblivion

Postby Amnesiasoft » Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:47 am UTC

I like the idea of level scaling, to provide you a consistent level of difficulty throughout the game. Problem is, it ramps up way too fast.

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Re: Oblivion

Postby Azrael001 » Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:26 am UTC

And not fast enough at the same time...
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Re: Oblivion

Postby Vaniver » Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:51 am UTC

As for level scaling- personally, I dislike it (especially for TES's leveling system) because it breaks verisimilitude and can easily ruin games. I much prefer the "dragons live here" style of pretty much every other RPG. That said, both of them are equally prone to pacing issues, and so my opinion of level scaling could be biased too much because of how it interacts with TES's leveling system.
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Re: Oblivion

Postby Amnesiasoft » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:02 pm UTC

The level scaling would probably work if, well, it didn't scale on based on your characters level. There are way too many factors in how you got to that level. Instead of just giving you a more powerful monster, they should give one that poses a proper challenge for you. If you're a mage, they should give you something slightly more resistant to magic attacks, but not capable of just running up and killing you in one hit.

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Re: Oblivion

Postby pieaholicx » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:12 pm UTC

Amnesiasoft wrote:The level scaling would probably work if, well, it didn't scale on based on your characters level. There are way too many factors in how you got to that level. Instead of just giving you a more powerful monster, they should give one that poses a proper challenge for you. If you're a mage, they should give you something slightly more resistant to magic attacks, but not capable of just running up and killing you in one hit.

Agreed. Especially if you level up things like Security, Sneak, Acrobatics, or Athletics. How exactly do those train you to face the bigger stronger baddies? Oh, I guess you could run away faster?
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Re: Oblivion

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:32 pm UTC

Sneak? Backstabbing for that 6x damage, or Marksman with the 3x on that one.

Once you get a bow with something decent on it, you pretty much.. and I believe this is the vernacular for it... pwn faces.
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Re: Oblivion

Postby pieaholicx » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:49 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Sneak? Backstabbing for that 6x damage, or Marksman with the 3x on that one.

Once you get a bow with something decent on it, you pretty much.. and I believe this is the vernacular for it... pwn faces.

Okay, I'll give that Sneak has something. However, something like Security is not a battle skill.
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Re: Oblivion

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:52 pm UTC

That might be why there's always rats in the sewer...... gotta do something to get your combat skills up if they're lagging too far behind.
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Re: Oblivion

Postby Amnesiasoft » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:13 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:That might be why there's always rats in the sewer...... gotta do something to get your combat skills up if they're lagging too far behind.

What about the vampires? Those will probably rip your face off if you have no combat skills. Security would be useful for combat in a way...if the loot wasn't leveled, it would allow you to get better armor and weapons before you were supposed to have them, now all you can do is get the useless ceremonial stuff.

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Re: Oblivion

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:50 pm UTC

You just don't go in to THAT part of the sewers... dive in, clear out the rats and mudcrabs, leave, rest for three or four days for them to respawn, repeat.

I do agree on the "Lockpicking should get me l33t loot!" stuff.... I mean, breaking in to a rich soldier's home or deep into the Imperial Barracks or something should result in better gear than a replica glass dagger.
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Re: Oblivion

Postby Benitosimies » Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:26 pm UTC

Amnesiasoft wrote:The level scaling would probably work if, well, it didn't scale on based on your characters level. There are way too many factors in how you got to that level. Instead of just giving you a more powerful monster, they should give one that poses a proper challenge for you. If you're a mage, they should give you something slightly more resistant to magic attacks, but not capable of just running up and killing you in one hit.


If you get killed in one hit, that's why you should also get armor. Or cast shield. Or summon an angry daedra hog to fight for you.

pieaholicx wrote:Agreed. Especially if you level up things like Security, Sneak, Acrobatics, or Athletics. How exactly do those train you to face the bigger stronger baddies? Oh, I guess you could run away faster?


Security: This is the most dumb skill in the whole game. Just go get the skeleton key. Or some Ondusi action. Put it on a ring maybe. But it contributes to you getting better loot that you can use to crush your enemies.

Sneak: You can, uh... sneak past them.

Acrobatics: Yes, this is a problem if it's one of your main skills. Never make acrobatics one of your main skills.

Athletics: You don't get fatigued as fast running around. And in Oblivion, when you're in those daedra towers inside the oblivion plane, you can run past pretty much everything straight to the sigilium sanctus. Then run past everything in there to the giant dinosaur hearts full of treasure and then to the sigil stone. It's not like you're missing out on xp.
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lowbart
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Re: Oblivion

Postby lowbart » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:12 pm UTC

Kabann wrote:Oblivion seems to have too much of a console feel to it, like the PC game is just a port of the Xbox version, and I didn't like that.


I hate that. It seems to be more and more common lately. Every game in the GTA series seems to place the consoles at higher priority, for example.
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Re: Oblivion

Postby Azrael001 » Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:22 am UTC

The consoles are where the money is, and the games can be designed for a specific technology. With computers there are many different levels that the game needs to be able to run smoothly on. This is not the case for consoles.
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Re: Oblivion

Postby Vaniver » Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:36 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:I do agree on the "Lockpicking should get me l33t loot!" stuff.... I mean, breaking in to a rich soldier's home or deep into the Imperial Barracks or something should result in better gear than a replica glass dagger.
This was the case in Morrowind, and until I played that again (which I'm doing now) I never realized how much that was missing in Oblivion. If you know the right places to go and have a bit of sneaking or telekinesis, you can get fantastic gear without killing a rat.
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Dr.Robert
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Re: Oblivion

Postby Dr.Robert » Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:32 am UTC

Vaniver wrote:
SecondTalon wrote:I do agree on the "Lockpicking should get me l33t loot!" stuff.... I mean, breaking in to a rich soldier's home or deep into the Imperial Barracks or something should result in better gear than a replica glass dagger.
This was the case in Morrowind, and until I played that again (which I'm doing now) I never realized how much that was missing in Oblivion. If you know the right places to go and have a bit of sneaking or telekinesis, you can get fantastic gear without killing a rat.


Totally. I loved how Morrowind had so many hidden goodies. Oblivion, while fun, is far too restricted by the new leveling system for such "goodies" to be possible.

I've been playing Oblivion recently and it has been quite enjoyable, despite the frustrating difficulty scaling. I'm going to try Morrowind again soon, but I'm afraid that the beautiful graphics and sounds of Oblivion might have spoiled me.

PS: Here lies an incredibly comprehensive wiki for the entire TES series. It provides a huge number of very useful hints and provides an in-depth analysis of Oblivion: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Oblivion


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