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Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:21 pm UTC
by oOTeriyakiOo_x
[sub/]It just seems like a really big rip-off of Star Wars. Now Don't get me wrong. I loved the game. D: But it seemed like a rip off. I don't like explaining things, and I have a alot of reasons why I think this way, but they can't be bothered or intra-webbed. Sorry.

What are your thoughts on this?[/sub]

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:50 pm UTC
by Belial
I think, much like "Harry Potter was a Ripoff of Star Wars", my conclusion will be "Huh, it seems like somebody thinks Star Wars was original..."

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:52 pm UTC
by Mecks
I just think most of the Final Fantasy series is a rip-off.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:01 pm UTC
by oOTeriyakiOo_x
Mecks wrote:I just think most of the Final Fantasy series is a rip-off.

[sub/]Not /all/ of them. Take Final Fantasy VII. That was pretty orignal.[/sub]

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:06 am UTC
by Axman
"Huh, it seems like somebody thinks Star Wars was original..."


beat me to it.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:56 am UTC
by anoshinri
Now now, don't feed the troll.

And troll, try to be a bit more creative.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:05 am UTC
by Anpheus
I thought Harry Potter really ripped off Ender's Game.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:36 am UTC
by Aradae
I just started playing it and from the opening scene I can say it looked as if it heavily ripped off of star wars.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:18 am UTC
by Nyarlathotep
oOTeriyakiOo_x wrote:
Mecks wrote:I just think most of the Final Fantasy series is a rip-off.

[sub/]Not /all/ of them. Take Final Fantasy VII. That was pretty orignal.[/sub]



...

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHDLAKFJ;dh

*falls on the floor and laughs her ass off*

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:55 am UTC
by Zohar
Except for it being pretty (and having Balthier), I didn't care much about FFXII. I think there were some similarities, but it's not important to me. I thought FFX, for example, was a lot more original. I felt the world in FFX was a lot more coherent and real, almost everything had its reason to exist and a context to work in in the overall story (which I thought was pretty interesting).

And, of course, nothing is original. The human mind works associatively, I think, and so everything it creates has connections with other things created before it.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:13 pm UTC
by Stief
I love how they say "I can't be bothered to explain this"...

Sure, I see where you're going with this, but...

*shrugs* I like it anyways :P

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:45 pm UTC
by Benitosimies
http://ias.berkeley.edu/orias/hero/
(You rollover, counterclockwise. I know. Stupid web design.)

Most stories look like ripoffs of each other.
And I don't think Square's designers were just putzin around thinkin up of FFXII, and decided "Let's just make Star Wars. Tee hee."

If you're talking about the airships, final fantasy has had airships since forever.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:07 pm UTC
by Insignificant Deifaction
The only thing that seemed vaguely star-warsy to me was the speed of the weaponry in the final battle, which about matched that of the original star wars lasers. So I pay a lot of attention to minute details such as that one, your point?

The rest of it was fantasy-politics, which is pretty nice.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:15 am UTC
by Ghandi 2
Everything is a rip-off of something else.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:19 am UTC
by Stief
Ghandi 2 wrote:Everything is a rip-off of something else. Except psychonauts and possibly Chrono Trigger


Fix'd

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:26 pm UTC
by Delbin
Psuchonauts: To quote the wiki article on Joseph Campbell's "The Hero with a Thousand Faces"

Fundamental structure of the monomyth
In the monomyth, the hero starts in the ordinary world, and receives a call to enter an unusual world of strange powers and events. If the hero accepts the call to enter this strange world, the hero must face tasks and trials, and may have to face these trials alone, or may have assistance. At its most intense, the hero must survive a severe challenge, often with help earned along the journey. If the hero survives, the hero may achieve a great gift or "boon." The hero must then decide whether to return to the ordinary world with this boon. If the hero does decide to return, the hero often faces challenges on the return journey. If the hero is successful in returning, the boon or gift may be used to improve the world. The stories of Osiris, Prometheus, Moses, Buddha, and Christ, for example, follow this structure very closely.

It's a fairly typical story. The awesomeness comes from the art direction and characters.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:54 pm UTC
by Okita
I think at some point you end up with claims that everything is a ripoff of either Sophocles, Homer, or Shakespeare.

Or that wii tennis is a ripoff of actual tennis.

All RPG's are a ripoff of D&D.

Eh, I think The Secret of Monkey Island was pretty original. So was System Shock 2.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:24 am UTC
by clayasaurus
EVERY ff game is a rehash of norse mythology

Delbin wrote:Psuchonauts: To quote the wiki article on Joseph Campbell's "The Hero with a Thousand Faces"

Fundamental structure of the monomyth
In the monomyth, the hero starts in the ordinary world, and receives a call to enter an unusual world of strange powers and events. If the hero accepts the call to enter this strange world, the hero must face tasks and trials, and may have to face these trials alone, or may have assistance. At its most intense, the hero must survive a severe challenge, often with help earned along the journey. If the hero survives, the hero may achieve a great gift or "boon." The hero must then decide whether to return to the ordinary world with this boon. If the hero does decide to return, the hero often faces challenges on the return journey. If the hero is successful in returning, the boon or gift may be used to improve the world. The stories of Osiris, Prometheus, Moses, Buddha, and Christ, for example, follow this structure very closely.

It's a fairly typical story. The awesomeness comes from the art direction and characters.

and epic boss battles

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:34 am UTC
by JayDee
Okita wrote:Eh, I think The Secret of Monkey Island was pretty original. So was System Shock 2.

I kinda agree, but my brain really doesn't like calling a sequel original.

Actually what has been really bugging me lately is people calling Heroes original.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:07 am UTC
by xenuphobia
JayDee wrote:
Okita wrote:Eh, I think The Secret of Monkey Island was pretty original. So was System Shock 2.

I kinda agree, but my brain really doesn't like calling a sequel original.

Actually what has been really bugging me lately is people calling Heroes original.


People say that? Eww. I mean, I like the show, but it's very clearly... well, I don't want to use the phrase "rip-off", but it was definitely heavily, heavily inspired by X-Men. Almost to the point where you feel like Tim Kring is beating you over the head with it.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:18 am UTC
by JayDee
xenuphobia wrote:
JayDee wrote:[Actually what has been really bugging me lately is people calling Heroes original.
People say that? Eww. I mean, I like the show, but it's very clearly... well, I don't want to use the phrase "rip-off", but it was definitely heavily, heavily inspired by X-Men. Almost to the point where you feel like Tim Kring is beating you over the head with it.
Exactly. And they make no secret of it. When Hiro is explaining his powers in the pilot, he uses an obscure X-men reference to do so. Heroes is awesome, but not at all original.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:32 am UTC
by Jesse
But it is original, surely? I mean, the similarities to X-Men pretty much fall down the moment you get past 'Lots of mutants with abilities'.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:35 am UTC
by Nyarlathotep
Jesster wrote:But it is original, surely? I mean, the similarities to X-Men pretty much fall down the moment you get past 'Lots of mutants with abilities'.


Which covers a lot of superhero... thingies... not just X-Men.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:47 am UTC
by xenuphobia
Jesster wrote:But it is original, surely? I mean, the similarities to X-Men pretty much fall down the moment you get past 'Lots of mutants with abilities'.


It's got a lot going for it besides that, but a lot of the powers match up pretty well with X-Men.

Parkman: Obviously Professor X, with his mind-reading and suggestion-planting abilities.
Claire & Adam: Wolverine, sans claws / skeleton.
Peter: Rogue, except he doesn't have to physically touch someone and his powers stick around.
DL: Shadowcat.
Niki: Super strength is kind of generic, so there's no one good example. Usually it's paired with flying, ala Ms. Marvel.
Peter & West: Again, flying by itself is kind of generic, but Archangel had it to some degree.
Candice: Mystique.
Linderman: I feel like I've seen it before but I can't remember who. Moira MacTaggart usually did this, though she didn't have powers.
Molly, Sylar and Micah have fairly unique powers, at least with as much X-Men as I've read, though some of Sylar's powers overlap. Cryokinesis skates pretty close to Iceman, for example, and he's also got telekinesis ala Jean Grey.

Throw in themes of persecution and hiding and you've got some fairly X-Men-like stuff. I didn't want to use the phrase "rip-off," though, because it uses that as a base for its story and then goes in wildly different directions (especially in terms of setting, bringing it much closer to Earth as we know it and more realistic than a comic book.) Also, Five Years Later had echoes of Days of Future Past, though with (obviously) less Sentinels. I still like it, though, it's better written than most of the junk out there and even at its worst it's better than "Till Death" or "Kitchen Nightmares." Ugh.

EDIT: Also, I'm sure it's hard to avoid overlaps in powers, especially with such a pervasive cultural force in X-Men. Kring has managed to pull some pretty nifty powers out of his head, though, I'll give him that. Wireless was pretty neat, even if she was in one freaking episode.

Also, soldier that could clone himself = Jamie Mad(r? d?)ox, the Multiple Man.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:56 am UTC
by Nyarlathotep
Yeah, but Sylar's ACTUAL power is the ability to instantly intuitively understand any system. He uses his power to gain OTHER people's powers by muchin down their brainz and presumably incorporating their DNA into his own. or some other technobabble. I can't think of ANY other villain who does such a thing, except mindflayers in the DnD 'verse, and even then you need them to be actual savants before they start getting powerz from brainz.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:04 am UTC
by xenuphobia
Nyarlathotep wrote:Yeah, but Sylar's ACTUAL power is the ability to instantly intuitively understand any system. He uses his power to gain OTHER people's powers by muchin down their brainz and presumably incorporating their DNA into his own. or some other technobabble. I can't think of ANY other villain who does such a thing, except mindflayers in the DnD 'verse, and even then you need them to be actual savants before they start getting powerz from brainz.


Well, yeah, I said that Sylar's power was unique, along with Molly's and (maybe) Maya's and definitely Micah. It's not a total derivative work and it's not a total rip-off, which is why I didn't call it such, but there's a page ripped out of an X-Men book somewhere.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:22 am UTC
by Lumpy
Heroes creator Tim Kring has said he was unfamiliar with most comic book works before coming up with the plot, and he purposefully avoided reading, watching, or being told about any work related to superheroes so he could avoid plagiarism accusations.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:23 am UTC
by xenuphobia
Hm. Didn't hear about that. Really, I just watch stuff, I don't dig around for other references or info. Still, whether he wanted to or not, he shares a lot of common ground with X-Men.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:31 am UTC
by Delbin
Niki reminds me mostly of of Dr. Jeckyl from League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. A lot of powers are going to be redundant with superheroes. Energy projection, exaggerated physical abilities, and ESP cover a pretty big portion of mutant powers.

There's a GURPS clone that has a system for superhero creation. You can duplicate just about any power with 50 pages of the handbook. I can't remember the name, though...

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:48 pm UTC
by FACM
I don't watch Heroes, and don't care about it. Back to something closer to the original topic.

Okita wrote:All RPG's are a ripoff of D&D.


And D&D is a ripoff of the wargames that existed before it and medieval fantasy stories..


Eh, I think The Secret of Monkey Island was pretty original. So was System Shock 2.


Monkey Island is directly based on Treasure Island. As are the Pirates of the Carribbean movies, which is why I felt like I'd played those movies before when I watched them.

And System Shock 2, being a sequel, is pretty much System Shock 1 with prettier graphics and a twerked plot.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:26 pm UTC
by Aleril
oOTeriyakiOo_x wrote:
Mecks wrote:I just think most of the Final Fantasy series is a rip-off.

[sub/]Not /all/ of them. Take Final Fantasy VII. That was pretty orignal.[/sub]



HAHAHAAHA..

Thats a good one.

Re: Does anyone else think FFXII is a rip-off of Star Wars?

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:42 pm UTC
by JayDee
Jesster wrote:But it is original, surely? I mean, the similarities to X-Men pretty much fall down the moment you get past 'Lots of mutants with abilities'.

As mentioned above there are also the powers, which is to be expected. With slight variation, I've seen pretty much every power that's been on Heroes in X-men. I was thinking more along the lines of the mechanism for how people get their powers, which is the same as in x-men. The overall arcs etc can easily be found in comic. A big chunk of the first season had me thinking Watchmen. As xenuphobia said, Five Years Later echoes of Days of Future Past. I'd say more than echoes, and Days of Future Past is the comic Hiro mentions to Ando when explaining his power, iirc.
Lumpy wrote:Heroes creator Tim Kring has said he was unfamiliar with most comic book works before coming up with the plot, and he purposefully avoided reading, watching, or being told about any work related to superheroes so he could avoid plagiarism accusations.
I find that hard to believe. I can't imagine someone creating a superhero based TV show without being somewhat familiar with superhero comics (or the movies etc based on them.)