EVE Online

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Cadmus
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Cadmus » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:26 am UTC

Is there an xkcd corp that would be willing to take on 3-4 UK gentlemen looking to do the 14-day trial? We've got little interest in acquiring wealth and more in seeing what the game has to offer.

We're cheap!

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:09 pm UTC

A bomb will do 8000 damage if using the racial type and all skills to 5.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Awia » Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:23 pm UTC

Cadmus wrote:Is there an xkcd corp that would be willing to take on 3-4 UK gentlemen looking to do the 14-day trial? We've got little interest in acquiring wealth and more in seeing what the game has to offer.

We're cheap!
There is an xkcd corp, I think you have to contact Xaddak.

Also you can get a 21 day free trial if you go through steam.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Xaddak » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:51 pm UTC

We're not "the" xkcd corp, but we've got a bunch of xkcd people in the corp.

Xaddak in game, too. Shoot me an EVE-Mail or four!
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Alasseo
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:56 pm UTC

Let's play the "fix that misconception" game. The frigates killed in the tourny were retarted, as circle of who proved. Second, if a bomber launches a bomb far enough out that it won't die, any frigate and most cruisers paying attention ought to be able to run away. Bombs are slow. Next, sig radius oh so matters. Again, go watch pl's bomb. Armor tanked bcs barely took damage from 5 simultanious bombs, unless I misremember. Yes, they got lit up after that with something like nearly 3 torp ravens of dps while being lit up by 2 dozen painters, but that's not the point here.

The point is, bombers, when used in very specific circumstances (sniper gang getting bubbled by their own hic at a pos seige leaps to mine) can, with a little effort, produce spectacular results. As a general rule, especially against a fleet with any sort of support, they're virtually worthless. Frigates and fast cruisers will be on them before the first bomb goes off. A vagabond with mwd on, can tank 2 bombers painting him until dt. He goes far faster than those torps could hope for. Could likely tank a good number of them, but I can't say that I've seen more than two, though with the pitiful damage...

And that's the word. (Sorta lost where I was going with that)
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Kain » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:12 pm UTC

Quick question: lets say that I decide that I want to destroy a pve fit golem, for roleplaying purposes. What do you expect would be the cheapest ship/fit possible to use to kill it before Concord gets me? Presume that I only attack it right as it is about to warp out its combat with some npc battleships.
I probably won't go and do this, but it would be nice to know.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Xaddak » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:30 pm UTC

Kain wrote:Quick question: lets say that I decide that I want to destroy a pve fit golem, for roleplaying purposes. What do you expect would be the cheapest ship/fit possible to use to kill it before Concord gets me? Presume that I only attack it right as it is about to warp out its combat with some npc battleships.
I probably won't go and do this, but it would be nice to know.


Kill a Golem, solo, in highsec, before Concord gets you? You don't. You have to change the solo or highsec stipulations.

For roleplaying? Fudge it - if you're in a gang, Concord shouldn't care.

Also, blowing up a 1B ISK ship for "roleplaying purposes"?
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:48 pm UTC

What's that Al, Eve has a rock paper scissors thing going on and nothing is uber-insta-always-win? Wow.

Kain, if you want to RP you should join factional warfare. Where it's legal to blow up a hated races ships on site (if they are also involved in FW).
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Ralith The Third » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:09 pm UTC

Xaddak wrote:For roleplaying? Fudge it - if you're in a gang, Concord shouldn't care.

NO NO NO STOP NOW
Edit: That said, Gang doesn't matter to concord. Corporation, yes, gang/fleet, no.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby SummerGlauFan » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:23 pm UTC

Ralith The Third wrote:
Xaddak wrote:For roleplaying? Fudge it - if you're in a gang, Concord shouldn't care.

NO NO NO STOP NOW
Edit: That said, Gang doesn't matter to concord. Corporation, yes, gang/fleet, no.


Yeah, corporation is what matters. I remember getting instapopped once when I accidentally scrambled my cousin's ship (I was still in free trial at the time and it may have changed since then).
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:41 pm UTC

You can do anything to people in your corp, but being in someone's gang does not give you right to aggress them.

I too learned this when I dropped corp and started web slinging my freighter.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Kain » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:06 pm UTC

I never said anything about solo... and it wouldnt be faction warfare approved, becuase it would be blowing up a golem piloted by a gallente pilot as he destroys caldari npcs at the leviathon in Luminaire...
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:13 pm UTC

So you want to gank someone while they run missions. You'd need a sizable force if it was done in high sec, alotta alpha to take down a golem. Although, you could probably assume a mission runner to be specifically tanked, and work around that.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Kain » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:46 pm UTC

That was what I was thinking. He is most certainly set up to tank the caldari npcs, and not much else, so perhaps em damage would go nicely. Also, if one could warp scramble him right as the npc battleships respawn (when he normally warps out to repair his shield) one could have an extra assist in dps right until concord kills them...

eh, too much work... on a different not, can anyone tell me how I would go about scanning down a wreck field? I'm getting tired of forgetting to bookmark them, and completing my missions. (I've scanned down quite a few wormholes, mag sites etc, but not sure on how wrecks work into the whole equation).
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Alasseo
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:37 am UTC

Izzy: Bombers lose to rock, paper, and scissors and can manage to beat a rock on a very good day if the rock is particularly incautious. and lol bombs. Remember the sig radius! Also, a bomb goes out once every 2 minutes. That's why PL only used one set. Pleased to be knowing what you're talking about.

also: I miss old gang rules. Bloody stupid new people. So annoying now. Alliance RR gangs in highsec are damned near impossible.

further: Ganking golem in Luminare before concord? you'd have to go with the suicide smartie bs fleet. get a bunch of phoons and so on, stick on 8 em smartbombs, then as many 1600mms and em harderners as you can, and go to town.

finally: 1b for rp is nothing. cva's spent trillions on it!

ps: can't scan down wrecks.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:58 am UTC

I'm surprised anyone would only launch a single bomb. And that SBs wouldn't fit a TP. But you must know that?
EDIT: In before you can point out that bombs will blow one another up; Staggering, or using the same type.


And why would you use smarties against a single target? Wasn't the awesomeness that was the smartbomb massacre due to the 'hitting multiple targets as they warped ontop of the gang'? A full rack of smarties does less dps then a full rack of guns, so kindly explain what you mean.
EDIT: Oh, do you mean that you are still doing damage despite CONCORDs scrambling? How do you keep the golem scrammed then?

also: Again with your vagueries! Do you mean pre-fleet organization? what is so impossible about RR gangs?
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:32 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I'm surprised anyone would only launch a single bomb. And that SBs wouldn't fit a TP. But you must know that?
EDIT: In before you can point out that bombs will blow one another up; Staggering, or using the same type.


And why would you use smarties against a single target? Wasn't the awesomeness that was the smartbomb massacre due to the 'hitting multiple targets as they warped ontop of the gang'? A full rack of smarties does less dps then a full rack of guns, so kindly explain what you mean.
EDIT: Oh, do you mean that you are still doing damage despite CONCORDs scrambling? How do you keep the golem scrammed then?

also: Again with your vagueries! Do you mean pre-fleet organization? what is so impossible about RR gangs?



you only launch a single bomb because that would generally be all that you can launch (I was quite mistake in regards to the battle report back there, I forgot some of the bomb changes). so, you must have a multitude of bombers (or weakly tanked targets with high sig radius, like sniper battleships) but yes, you use the same type. Staggering is less useful.

Yes, and you keep the golem scrambled by having 2 dozen BS on him, bumping him so he can't warp.

non-single corp high sec RR gangs tend to end without very, very, very good pilots like this: you lock each other up, fight begins, and person in corp A accidentally fires guns instead of reppers on a member of corp B. he's concordokkened. Everyone who was repping him is concordokkened. You just lost half of your fleet! GJ. Bad idea.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Cynical Idealist » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:47 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I'm surprised anyone would only launch a single bomb. And that SBs wouldn't fit a TP. But you must know that?
EDIT: In before you can point out that bombs will blow one another up; Staggering, or using the same type.


And why would you use smarties against a single target? Wasn't the awesomeness that was the smartbomb massacre due to the 'hitting multiple targets as they warped ontop of the gang'? A full rack of smarties does less dps then a full rack of guns, so kindly explain what you mean.
EDIT: Oh, do you mean that you are still doing damage despite CONCORDs scrambling? How do you keep the golem scrammed then?

also: Again with your vagueries! Do you mean pre-fleet organization? what is so impossible about RR gangs?


You use smarties because guns do very little DPS when you're jammed (and CONCORD will jam you the moment they show up).
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:05 am UTC

I know bomb launchers have a 2minute reactivation time. Bombs have a flight time of 10 seconds, and can thus fly 30km, with a blast radius of 15km. You CAN stagger them. And multiple bombers CAN drop the same bomb type (one from each ship I mean), to stack. Bombs aren't easy targets either, being small and invincible to one damage type. You basically need to recognize that it's coming, lock it (and I can't seem to find anything on it's sig radius? how easy to target are they?), and get some damage on it. They have about 240 armor hp, so it's certainly destroyable by a BS, but five incoming? Netcha.
Alasseo wrote:Staggering is less useful.

I would think this would serve an excellent distraction, as the entire attention shifts to getting away from it, or shooting at it? Figure you've already got sensor damps on some ships, and TPs, so they know they better get rid of the bombs, and all the while you're dropping volley after volley of torps.

I KNOW SBs aren't uber, but so far all your comments have been incorrectly assigning them failures. Yes, I recognize a destroyer is going to have a field day on them, that a 'ceptor will basically lock them down and chew them apart with them unable to do much of anything. But as long as these things stay out of reach of webs, and keep that transversal up, they seem a fantastic way of taking down fleets of larger ships, doing more damage then any ship of their size, with the obvious trade off of being slightly less versitile, and significantly more fragile. They're skinnier then Cov Ops ships, BUT, I've taken a few rounds from Arazu's and Astarte's in my Helios and gotten away without dying, so, again, name of the game is be quick and be deadly.

Alasseo wrote:and person in corp A accidentally fires guns instead of reppers on a member of corp B.


Ah, yes, we've definitely done that in w-space while overtired a handful of times (and by we, I mean mostly me, though the other corpies certainly have done it once or twice too).
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:31 pm UTC

I never said you can't stagger them. I said it's less useful. I also never said you can't drop the same bomb type and stack them. In fact, that's exactly what I said you needed to do.

Also, "volley after volley" of torps that are still 9s apart. Don't get too excited here.

finally, as I said in the beginning: if you fight a mixed fleet, you will die if they are competent. And it's hard to catch a fleet to use bombs against anyways. The best thing you can do is a cloaked hictor on a gate with the bombers standing by. Fleet jumps in, hictor decloaks, bubbles, bombs launch. You're at least likely to lose the hictor, and if their support has 2 brain cells to rup together, you'll lose at least a few of the bombers. but yes, it'll be a nice kill.

The point I'm trying to make here is that if you find a fleet that's incompetent (I file "non-supported BS" under "incompetent"), or you just surprise the shit out of them (good fcs will be issuing orders before your bombs even launch), yes, you will get an awesome set of killmails. If the enemy fleet has ceptors, afs, destroyers, recons of any flavor, hell, hurricanes, you're not gonna survive that one. same trick (shouldn't) work twice either. If it does, well, they're retards and you could be killing them in Tristans and Merlins too, likely.

Now, burn eden has been successful with this, but they're a group of people that have been more-or-less working with each other for years and years. The concentrate on one tactic, they spend a good deal of effort into utterly perfecting it, and they know who and when they can engage (not much or often). They are professionals. Can you do it too? Yes, if you commit that same effort to it.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Toeofdoom » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:01 pm UTC

I'm not entirely sure how bombs are aimed, but with full speed cloaks couldn't you align, decloak + bomb and warp? Or do bombs do no damage when you warp off?
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:03 pm UTC

Alasseo wrote:if you fight a mixed fleet, you will die if they are competent.


Izawwlgood wrote:What's that Al, Eve has a rock paper scissors thing going on and nothing is uber-insta-always-win? Wow.


Alasseo wrote:Also, "volley after volley" of torps that are still 9s apart. Don't get too excited here.


Keep in mind a BS lock time on a ship that's got a 35m sig radius will be more then 15 seconds. Keep in mind that the max range on a BS without SeBo's running target range scripts is about 90-100km, and that 2x dampeners running target disruption scripts can bring a BSs range down to 42km. Or a painter renders a cruiser the size of a BS. Or a frig the size of a cruiser.

I mean, really? Are you going to tell me that there's NOTHING you can do to abrogate any given situation in Eve?
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:39 pm UTC

go try and paint up a cruiser to BS size sig rad. I'll be here when you come back. Even with a belli/rapier/whatever, you're getting about a 50% bonus with best named. Whoo.

Toeofdoom wrote:I'm not entirely sure how bombs are aimed, but with full speed cloaks couldn't you align, decloak + bomb and warp? Or do bombs do no damage when you warp off?


Bombs, like torps, do no damage if you cloak/warp off. you have to be there to trigger the explosion anyways.

Izzy, again. If you find a BS only fleet, good job! Your bombs will be amazing and awesome. If they have half as many frigates as you have stealthbombers, you will die.

Now, if you were talking about being in an entire blackops fleet, jumpbridging recons and bobs in there, that's a different story. (still mostly useless, but better that trying to go at it with stealthbombers). There are very good reasons why you don't see many of them, despite them bing very easy to fly.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Ralith The Third » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:04 am UTC

Alasseo wrote:go try and paint up a cruiser to BS size sig rad. I'll be here when you come back. Even with a belli/rapier/whatever, you're getting about a 50% bonus with best named. Whoo.

I can do it with one bellicose, be cap stable, and still have a midslot.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:31 am UTC

Ralith The Third wrote:I can do it with one bellicose, be cap stable, and still have a midslot.


Yes, and now you have a non-cloaky ship. Yes, you can use rapier, but frankly I'd rather web any cruisers and td/damp other crap rather than paint something you can web and play keep away with. Can it be done? yes. This is how BE gangs work. Rapiers web, arazus point, bombers (possibly rapiers too, I honestly don't know) paint, and they go to town. I'm sure they have neuting pilgrims too (and jamming falcons, but that's beside the point). Again, this takes an excessive amount of work and coordination for the result you get. If the number of enemy fast tacklers (vaga, enemy arazu/lach/huginn/etc, ceptors, afs, hell, t1 frigs) exceeds your ability to shut them down, you just lose, period. And you're /still/ going to have a hard time to get them.

So here's the end of this: can you, with a large amount of support, take on a mixed enemy gang? yes, potentially. but you'll damn near need to outnumber them at that point. Can bombs, if the situation is right, take out a arbitrarily large amount of ships? yes. are these situations difficult to arrange? yes.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby SlyReaper » Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:03 pm UTC

Hmm.

In one week I've dropped from 2.6 sec status to -6. This is fun. :twisted:
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:23 pm UTC

I've done that kind of drop in a day. Weak.

Also, who are you ingame, and where do you work? :D
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Re: EVE Online

Postby SlyReaper » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

I'm ReaperOfSly. "SlyReaper" had been taken when I joined. I'm in Black Rise, spending a fair amount of time popping frigs and destroyers who are stuck due to popping up a cyno field. Occasionally manage to bag some bigger game though.

As for not dropping my sec status more quickly, I have this little thing called a job which keeps me away from Eve most of the time. :P
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:01 am UTC

Blah. Black rise is so far for a fight..not that I can get one anywhere else..
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:02 am UTC

people use destroyers to drop a cyno?
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Ralith The Third » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:04 am UTC

You can pop cynos?

neat...
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:44 am UTC

er...
pop=drop...
especially when you lock.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:59 am UTC

Yes, and no. You can pop the ship, but not the cyno itself.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:53 pm UTC

You can pop a cyno, but it doesn't mean blowing it up. Dropping a cyno, and popping a cyno, as far as I've heard, both refer to opening a cynosural field.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Ralith The Third » Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:59 pm UTC

pop should mean breaking it! *rant*
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Re: EVE Online

Postby SlyReaper » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:01 pm UTC

Hence why I said "popping up". As in "I popped up a tent in the muddy field". The up bit is important. I don't see how you could be confused by that. :|
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Ralith The Third » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:13 pm UTC

I just say set up a tent.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:55 am UTC

popping/dropping cyno both are common for clicking the button that makes a cyno field go up. then the enemy says pop that cyno ship!
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Toeofdoom » Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:54 am UTC

And then guy named chippy in the rifter pops his cyno. Awesome huh? :D
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Re: EVE Online

Postby SlyReaper » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:02 pm UTC

I didn't realise we could have such an in-depth debate on the finer points of the word "pop". If you want to be pedantic, you could say "deploy a cyno field".
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