EVE Online

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

Moderators: SecondTalon, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:38 pm UTC

Bit of drama. Due to general incompetence on our part and holiday busyness, we let our tower go offline. Total losses were approx 16bn. When we figured out what had happened, we only had about 36 hrs of fuel remaining. Thus began what was literally the worst scanning session I've ever experienced; four to six of us spent, no exaggeration, about 7 hours scanning an exit for our remaining 6 capitals. It was awful, a horrible conclusion to our w-space activities.

Currently looking for something to do in empire, major lull time. Any alliances holding null sec looking for a solid group to hold a few systems?
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

halbarad
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:49 am UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby halbarad » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:04 pm UTC

Sounds like a pretty big loss but at least you saved some assets.

On the subject of Wormholes, my alt just joined a small corp who currently do lots of mining and are discussing/planning going into a wormhole and setting up a POS. After a few mins chatting to these guys it's obvious (and they even admit) they know almost nothing about Wormholes or POS. So I give them a bit of info on them and I'm now wondering if I should have my main camp the inside of the hole they decide to use and bomb them as they come in or harrass them a lot when they are in there.

Or the other option is help them out and let some other WH dwellers gank them but that's not as much fun for me.

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:23 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Bit of drama. Due to general incompetence on our part and holiday busyness, we let our tower go offline. Total losses were approx 16bn. When we figured out what had happened, we only had about 36 hrs of fuel remaining. Thus began what was literally the worst scanning session I've ever experienced; four to six of us spent, no exaggeration, about 7 hours scanning an exit for our remaining 6 capitals. It was awful, a horrible conclusion to our w-space activities.

Currently looking for something to do in empire, major lull time. Any alliances holding null sec looking for a solid group to hold a few systems?


Crap dude. That really sucks. I'm sure you'll be able to get a patch of space to rent. You should talk to some AAA guys and see if they want any renters in Impass or Feythabolis. Or you can go up north where it's a bit less volitaile (stay out of Venal though). Look me up in game sometime. I'm always in the xkcd channel when I'm on. I can ask around for you if you'd like.

User avatar
Decker
Posts: 2071
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:22 pm UTC
Location: Western N.Y.

Re: EVE Online

Postby Decker » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:06 pm UTC

Mishrak wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:Bit of drama. Due to general incompetence on our part and holiday busyness, we let our tower go offline. Total losses were approx 16bn. When we figured out what had happened, we only had about 36 hrs of fuel remaining. Thus began what was literally the worst scanning session I've ever experienced; four to six of us spent, no exaggeration, about 7 hours scanning an exit for our remaining 6 capitals. It was awful, a horrible conclusion to our w-space activities.

Currently looking for something to do in empire, major lull time. Any alliances holding null sec looking for a solid group to hold a few systems?


Crap dude. That really sucks. I'm sure you'll be able to get a patch of space to rent. You should talk to some AAA guys and see if they want any renters in Impass or Feythabolis. Or you can go up north where it's a bit less volitaile (stay out of Venal though). Look me up in game sometime. I'm always in the xkcd channel when I'm on. I can ask around for you if you'd like.

I tooled around in Branch when I was still playing, as a part of Zebra Corp in UNIT. It was generally quiet except for the occasional roaming blob. I only ever lost one ship and that was stupidity on my part.
I was angry with my friend. I told my wrath. My wrath did end.
I was angry with my foe. I told it not. My wrath did grow.

User avatar
Xeio
Friends, Faidites, Countrymen
Posts: 5101
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:12 am UTC
Location: C:\Users\Xeio\
Contact:

Re: EVE Online

Postby Xeio » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:36 pm UTC

"Hyren, 2,103,063 Unspent Skill Points Await You in EVE Online"

So, if nobody heard, they removed learning skils, gave everyone a bonus equivalent to them, and reimbursed the skill points. So tempting to play again... sooo tempting...

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:09 am UTC

Yeah, Drakes, here I come!
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
BlackSails
Posts: 5315
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:48 am UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby BlackSails » Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:45 am UTC

So i think ill be signing up for this. Im going to join the Team Liquid corp. They are based in high sec, in Emolgranian, right next to low sec. Maybe eventually ill move out to null sec.

halbarad
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:49 am UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby halbarad » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:32 am UTC

BlackSails wrote:So i think ill be signing up for this. Im going to join the Team Liquid corp. They are based in high sec, in Emolgranian, right next to low sec. Maybe eventually ill move out to null sec.


Join the xkcd channel in game and have a chat with some of us, there are usually a few people in there.

Xeio wrote:"Hyren, 2,103,063 Unspent Skill Points Await You in EVE Online"

So, if nobody heard, they removed learning skils, gave everyone a bonus equivalent to them, and reimbursed the skill points. So tempting to play again... sooo tempting...


I got 1.5mil on my main and 600k on my alt. Now I have a whole bunch of useful skills and my alt can finally use his gang links on his orca.

Spambot5546
Posts: 1466
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:34 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Spambot5546 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:17 am UTC

Okay, on the one hand this SP reimbursement thing is AWESOME. I got about three months worth of skills done in the span of 90 seconds. I can fly a Curse now with virtually every relevant skill at V. In a day i'll have Recon Ships V (wasn't quite enough left over to learn that) so...quite happy over here.

On the other hand, i've basically stopped playing. For the past few months i haven't logged on except to flip skills. I'm thinking about selling my account. What does a character with 36m SP and 75m ISK go for on eBay?
"It is bitter – bitter", he answered,
"But I like it
Because it is bitter,
And because it is my heart."

User avatar
Alasseo
Posts: 526
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:25 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:57 am UTC

NO RMT! Rawr!
Eruantale wrote:(I did... I've always wanted to get a Dudley Do-right out of a vending machine)

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:22 pm UTC

Depending on how your SP is allocated, I'm sure you could fetch a decent amount of ISK for a 36m sp toon.

Spambot5546
Posts: 1466
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:34 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Spambot5546 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:40 pm UTC

Mishrak wrote:Depending on how your SP is allocated, I'm sure you could fetch a decent amount of ISK for a 36m sp toon.

I'm selling my character, why would i want ISK?
"It is bitter – bitter", he answered,
"But I like it
Because it is bitter,
And because it is my heart."

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:43 pm UTC

RMT the isk, duh!

Actually the easiest way is to find an IRL buddy who will pay you $$ for it. That way you don't have to deal with the paypal junk, etc, and it's all but impossible for CCP to track that type of transaction.

User avatar
BlackSails
Posts: 5315
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:48 am UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby BlackSails » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:02 pm UTC

I was stealing stuff from wrecks in an asteroid belt in low sec (I found an angel commander who had faction torpedoes and other stuff on him, and was deciding what to jettison) while I was being shot at by a rat cruiser. As soon as he takes my shields down, and im about to jettison my stuff to make room, a dramiel warps right on top of me (in a rifter), disrupts me and opens fire. I align to the the first thing I can align to and take off with my mwd, and break out of disruptor range and warp.

If the dramiel had been a bit quicker with turning on his afterburner (or if he had a scram or web), he would have caught me easily. As it was he took out half my armor.

(How on earth is a dramiel with an afterburner faster (by almost 50%!) than a rifter with a mwd, nano and overdrive?)

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:07 pm UTC

A dramiel has insane innate speed bonuses.

On a non-pimped fit with normal skills and no implants, you can overload a T2 afterburner to do around 3km/s. A good pvp fit with an MWD will do around 6km/s. EFT warrioring it one day I got it to do over 10km/s, but that's not a practical fit.

User avatar
BlackSails
Posts: 5315
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:48 am UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby BlackSails » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:26 pm UTC

He had a t1 faction afterburner. And apparently, he belongs to some fantastically rich corp - they have multiple tech 3 ships which they purchased on the open market.

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:36 pm UTC

Faction afterburner is nice too, a good speed increase. T3 ships aren't that expensive, unless you're going really crazy with pimping them out. You can t2 fit one for ~400mil.

halbarad
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:49 am UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby halbarad » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:08 pm UTC

Dramiel is something like 25% lighter than most Interceptors so is very quick. Good job getting away from them though.

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:11 pm UTC

Mishrak wrote:Faction afterburner is nice too, a good speed increase. T3 ships aren't that expensive, unless you're going really crazy with pimping them out. You can t2 fit one for ~400mil.

The prices have fallen, admittedly, but I'd say you're low balling that estimate by about 100m. Still, depending on which subsystems you go with, yeah, the range is probably 400-600m.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:30 pm UTC

Eh I don't have a jita alt in front of me, so that's not going to be a totally accurate price. I spent about 400ish mil on my loki + subsystems, and t2 fitting prices are fairly insignificant unless you get t2 rigs. That's why I used the "~". My point was that the corp that bought 3 of them wasn't insanely rich.

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:33 pm UTC

Oh, well, yeah, Loki. I thought you were talking about the good T3s :D
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

halbarad
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:49 am UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby halbarad » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:34 pm UTC

Only 1 day after the patch and they crash the server. Glad I have a few days left on my skill queue still.

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:35 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Oh, well, yeah, Loki. I thought you were talking about the good T3s :D



Tell that to my loki that tanks nullsec plexes blindfolded and afk (even though I'm not afk :P).

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:37 pm UTC

Man, my proteus does 714 dps, has 93k armor hp, and maxes out at 1209m/s. Bam.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
Alasseo
Posts: 526
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:25 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:43 pm UTC

Confirming silly loki tank is go. Mine solos C4s for like 85m/hr.
Eruantale wrote:(I did... I've always wanted to get a Dudley Do-right out of a vending machine)

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:46 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Man, my proteus does 714 dps, has 93k armor hp, and maxes out at 1209m/s. Bam.


Yeah, proteus is a freaking beast. The way I fit my Loki, it's never going into combat. Just black-ops bridging around 0.0 for plexes. I'm a tightwad when it comes to pvp. I don't like flying stuff more expensive than a t2 fit battleship.

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:46 pm UTC

Alasseo wrote:Confirming silly loki tank is go. Mine solos C4s for like 85m/hr.

C4's for 85m/hr. Horse shit!
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
Swivelguy
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:11 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Swivelguy » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:56 pm UTC

That's only like 1 anom/hr. I guess it's possible. I'd be astonished to see a single ship break the tank of the last wave in a barracks, though. Mind telling us which anoms you're running solo and your fit (or at least its stats)?

Anyway, the kind of pimp T3 that solos C4s could trade some tank for dps and make twice the isk/hr in C3s, but the problem is finding C3s with lots of anomalies and nobody to stop you.

BlackSails wrote:I was stealing stuff from wrecks in an asteroid belt in low sec (I found an angel commander who had faction torpedoes and other stuff on him, and was deciding what to jettison)


From, "I think I'm gonna sign up for this," to escaping dramiels in lowsec in 18 hours. You, sir, are the man.
EVE Online: Daesis Wrack
Starcraft 2 (US): CosmicOsmo #465
Anarchy Online (RK2): Azzamis

User avatar
BlackSails
Posts: 5315
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:48 am UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby BlackSails » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:18 pm UTC

You know that you can make an alt account for 1 month for free?

If you make an alt with a 21 day trial invite, then plex/subscribe that account, your main gets a free month, so for no cost, you have an alt for 21 days, who can do things like ferry stuff around, or help you scam unsuspecting people.

User avatar
Swivelguy
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:11 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Swivelguy » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:30 pm UTC

Yep, you get the alt for 51 days, actually. If you're paying real money for the main subscription, it's not as good of a deal, because you can't get the 3/6/12-month discount that way. But if you're using plex anyway, it's a win-win. Can trial accounts accept contracts? If not, the only easy way to transfer a plex onto your trial alt is with a 2nd computer, because the game won't let you log in a paid and trial account simultaneously.
EVE Online: Daesis Wrack
Starcraft 2 (US): CosmicOsmo #465
Anarchy Online (RK2): Azzamis

User avatar
Alasseo
Posts: 526
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:25 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:52 am UTC

Swivelguy wrote:That's only like 1 anom/hr. I guess it's possible. I'd be astonished to see a single ship break the tank of the last wave in a barracks, though. Mind telling us which anoms you're running solo and your fit (or at least its stats)?

Anyway, the kind of pimp T3 that solos C4s could trade some tank for dps and make twice the isk/hr in C3s, but the problem is finding C3s with lots of anomalies and nobody to stop you.

BlackSails wrote:I was stealing stuff from wrecks in an asteroid belt in low sec (I found an angel commander who had faction torpedoes and other stuff on him, and was deciding what to jettison)


From, "I think I'm gonna sign up for this," to escaping dramiels in lowsec in 18 hours. You, sir, are the man.


I can solo everything except for the one final wave with 4x webbing BS at short range. I've only ever soloed 3x of them (the one time I did this, someone else had died to the 4 of them, but killed one before asploding). I should be able to solo all 4, but I never tried because the alpha scared me a little. I believe I did every other site, though. Stats are 1.7k dps tank, 32k shield ehp, 621 dps and 92/87/84/84. Before you go "oh no you can't break RR!" yes, yes you can. you go sit on their asses and push them out of rep range of each other. it's why running the sites it takes a damn hour. Also, webs blow, but you can do it. I lost the ship while I was (lol) missioning in 0.0 out of boredom (cause I had left WHs to go pew pew in 0.0 with some friends). KM is here for your viewing pleasure: http://republicalliance.killmail.org/?a ... id=8079942

Also, I used blue pill. If I had kept doing it I was going to get crystals.

Also, this doesn't work anymore now that they have fixed/are going to fix sleeper neuts.
Eruantale wrote:(I did... I've always wanted to get a Dudley Do-right out of a vending machine)

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:52 pm UTC

Yeah that hurts. I just lost my pimped out Machariel because I was being an idiot, but seeing losses like that don't make me feel so bad. Fortunately it made me 3 or 4 times what it cost to lose, but it still sucked.

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:02 pm UTC

And how do you come back and salvage the whole mess? Salvaging a C4 solo is going to take more than 15m. And if you're relying on bumping sleepers out of RR range, I can't imagine the site is run in any reasonable length of time.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
Swivelguy
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:11 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Swivelguy » Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:19 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:And how do you come back and salvage the whole mess? Salvaging a C4 solo is going to take more than 15m. And if you're relying on bumping sleepers out of RR range, I can't imagine the site is run in any reasonable length of time.


A barracks can be salvaged in a destroyer in about 10 minutes, the other anoms in about 8. A drake can do it a bit slower, while not having to fear solo stealth bombers. And now we have the noctis.

(have we all picked up on the common theme that barracks suck yet? worst anomaly ever)
EVE Online: Daesis Wrack
Starcraft 2 (US): CosmicOsmo #465
Anarchy Online (RK2): Azzamis

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:11 pm UTC

Right, my point is that's not either soloing, or particularly safe, as one method involves bringing along an alt/friend, and the other involves bringing along a ship which you hop into. I dunno about you, but I don't want to hop out of my 500ishM ship while I spend 10 minutes salvaging the field that took me an hour to kill.

If you're bringing an alt in with a Noctis and just logging it out, than it's kind of soloing, I suppose, but would probably go faster with two marauders, each with a salvager and tbeam, and an RR.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
Alasseo
Posts: 526
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:25 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:01 pm UTC

Prowler alt. I have a spreadsheet I saved with times, but I didn't split up salvage and actual killing. Also, with alt you can salvage your last site while you do the next one, so while Marauders are faster, it's not much slower. Frontier Barracks averaged me 60 minutes, command post averaged 90 minutes, evacuation center 60, unsecured frontier trinary hub 60. Didn't keep record for everything at first and I quickly got lazy. Commandposts were by far the least profitable. I think they have lots of webbing and/or rring cruisers compared to other ones?

Also, that loki is more like 2.5 or 3b, not 500m. :p
Eruantale wrote:(I did... I've always wanted to get a Dudley Do-right out of a vending machine)

Korrente
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:44 am UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Korrente » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:11 pm UTC

Any nice corp out there with room for a high SP (30+ mil I think) miner/pvper for a month or so? I wanna check out the new expansions and stuff but I don't think I'll be able to play for too long. I also may not have many ships, I kind of had to stop playing in the middle of a war up north...my stuff might not exist anymore. But yeah, GMT-5, and I like pvp but obviously I'm out of practice.

Spambot5546
Posts: 1466
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:34 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Spambot5546 » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:13 am UTC

HOLY BALLS! I just got my new echelon and purloined codebreaker. I cannot WAIT to take this thing out and...what do i do with thing?
"It is bitter – bitter", he answered,
"But I like it
Because it is bitter,
And because it is my heart."

User avatar
hendusoone
Mr. Dreambeard butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts. Butts.
Posts: 1570
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:30 pm UTC
Location: Spaceship
Contact:

Re: EVE Online

Postby hendusoone » Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:15 pm UTC

Far as I can tell, get suicide ganked.
Jack Saladin wrote:Humanities salvation relies on us sending the Earth into a giant black hole.

User avatar
Wyvern
Posts: 488
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:31 pm UTC
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Contact:

Re: EVE Online

Postby Wyvern » Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:33 pm UTC

sit on it for ages until it's rare and valuable enough to be sold for mountains of ISK?

That's what I'm doing with it anyway. and the Primae too.


Return to “Gaming”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests