EVE Online

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halbarad
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Re: EVE Online

Postby halbarad » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:26 am UTC

Got Recon IV so far and only thing stopping me buying and undocking a Rapier is not having Recon V. They definitely seem like very cool ships to fly with a lot of usability.

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Mishrak
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:58 pm UTC

Everything I mention comes from the perspective of nullsec warfare, just as a preface.

In gate camps or short range gangs, I'll agree that Faction webs and points aren't that practical. However, in sniper hac gangs, Machariel gangs, or any other shield gang where you'll be on the field fighting at range, being able to use/overload webs and points(Arazu) to 80-100km is freaking awesome. We had an Arazu point a Drake 95km off the gate, it was hilarious because the Drake thought he was safe. But really you just burn off like a logi pilot would and put your webs/points on stuff from a safe distance.

@Rapier vs Huginn - if you are actually probing in a gang, use the Rapier. Same goes for if you're doing a hot drop or if you're providing warpins/scouting (duh). But if you're not doing those things, the Huginn is better. It's significantly less expensive and you can actually do some dps with it. It's not a lot, but in small gang situations it adds more dps than you'd expect. Certainly a lot more than the Rapier which, for all intents and purposes, does almost 0 dps unless it's able to use its drones. Also there are some fleet comps where cloaky stuff just isn't that useful. Lastly, you don't always have to be in point range to use your webs (I don't even fit a point on my Huginn in Mach/Sniper Hac gangs because it's not my job to scram things, just web).

@Curse - One of the greatest force multipliers you can put on the field in a 10-15 man gang. Once you get past that threshold of people, it starts to diminish. But if you're in a small gang and you tackle a Carrier, and you have 1-2 Curses, that's one dead Carrier.

Also, you can have plenty of fun in a T2 fit Recon (and Recon IV). I didn't say you couldn't :). What I said was you can't realize their full potential unless you use a little bit of faction. Shadow Serpentis or Dread Guristas webs are cheap too. Like 25-30m a pop at the most. Faction points are really expensive though.

halbarad
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Re: EVE Online

Postby halbarad » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:15 pm UTC

What about recons for solo pvp? I know Pilgrim can be good for killing active tanked ratters if they don't have support near by (as dps is pretty terrible) but what about the others? Most of my solo pvp has been in frigates.

I'm not likely to fly a recon solo for a little bit but I'm curious what it's like, obviously a HAC or BC would be much better but I'm looking at other options.

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Mishrak
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:27 pm UTC

Recons generally are lacking in dps, and if you try to fit them for dps, you end up sacrificing survivability.

Recons work better when paired with something. Like a Falcon + something fast and tackly (daredevil/dramiel/AF/sabre) on a drag bubble, or a bait scram+web/HAM drake.

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Alasseo
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:17 pm UTC

overloaded faction points are fantastic, I agree. Overloaded (or not) faction webs are less awesome, for the following reasons: no matter how far your webs go, you'll never be out of enemy engagement range (for draeks/sniperhacs/etc), but conversely, even with t2 webs, you're still out of enemy point range (by the same token, even t2 webs put you out of the engagement range of short range ahac fleets). Also, if you don't have the arazu with you, and you're webbing at 50km, and you're with the fleet, there's no one to point your target -> fail.

Anyone who knows me ingame knows I bling my ships like crazy, so I fly faction web and point on my rapiers. I'm just saying there's not _really_ a good reason to. 95% of the time that extra range will not help. Very, very rarely, in that little zone of skirmishing 3-7 man gangs you will see usage from the longer webs. But in large fleet fights? no way. You may feel safer, but you're really not. :p

See what I posed above for solorecons. The cloaky stuff has no DPS, across the board. for the others, a huginn can't shut anything down (and has pretty crap dps anyways), a lach can easily shut stuff down, but has crap dps as well (if it gets close to use blasterz..welp), a curse can shut down turreted and/or active tank ships (curse vs myrm: who's the better pilot? and who has better drone skills?) but fails vs, say, a drake, and a rook can shut anything down and has dps, but is slow (ie, hard to get tackle) and is paper thin (cause all of your mids are point/mwd/jammers).

That all said, a rapier is still going to devastate an ABing frigate. (any ABing cruisers you find ought to be shot on a matter of principle). A lach will shut down (if it has faction2pt) any mwd-based ship, and it can actually kill frigates and t1 cruisers, and some t2 cruisers, if it's lucky/etc. so on and so forth. You just can't use a recon to take on a BC/BS/sometimes hacs/etc. not solo, at least.
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Mishrak
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:36 pm UTC

I know there was a very specific engagement where there was a hostile blob aggressed and bubbled on a gate. We were at 70km range alphaing their battleships and generally eating their faces. I was in a Hurricane at the time, but had I been in a Huginn, faction webs would have allowed me to web whatever i wanted to at that range.

The role that the Huginn plays when faction webs are involved is not that of a ship that stops a target from warping. That's for the Lachesis, the Arazu and the Dictors/Hictors/Inties/Dramiels. I don't even fit a point on my Huginn in large gangs because I want as much EHP as I can get in my mids. It's a waste of time. If the enemy fleet isn't bubbled, my point isn't going to help that because we'll be fighting at range, not at 0. In small nano gangs, my primary job still isn't to point stuff, but I'll have one just in case. The range is definitely less of an issue in that situation (and I typically end up flying a Curse anyway), so I'd agree with you in not fitting faction webs there. The real danger is actually webbing stuff before someone else has it pointed, because it'll make them insta-warp (like Freighters).

The Huginn's job really is to web crap that's trying to escape, or to eat tacklers/dictors that are trying to burn to the fleet (which it does VERY well). It depends on the type of engagement really. It does that much better than the Rapier too because of the HML range and if something gets to 0, the autocannons go into effect and finish off what the missiles don't.

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Alasseo
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:57 pm UTC

I'm not arguing against huginns in general, (though if you don't have a prober in fleet and you could be in your rapier instead of your huginn..! also, if you're in a rapier with no probes when you could be in a huginn..!) just that faction webs have a very, very narrow range of use. It's simply rare that the extra range you get is particularly useful.

Though, as you mentioned they ARE cheap, so if you want to have the bling bling, by all means. I mean, FFS, I fly a 400m jag in pvp.
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Mishrak
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:06 pm UTC

Totally. It's not like an RF or Domi point that costs 160m a pop. SS or DG webs at most are like 35m each, which really isn't that bad. TS webs are bit more expensive at like 80-90 each, and I doubt I'd use those.

halbarad
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Re: EVE Online

Postby halbarad » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:09 pm UTC

TEARS deliver again on the awesome kills.

On a different note, I'm considering moving out to null sec again on my main. Can anyone recommend any good corps they've flown with in the past? I could join up again with my old corp who live in Fade but not really sure I want to join up with the NC again.

I'd prefer a focus on small gang fights, sov warfare isn't a huge draw for me but I could live with it if the corp is good.

Edit: I can fly all the frigs, T2 Minmatar cruisers and Caldari/Gallente/Minmatar BCs. Working towards T2 Gallente soon.

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Mishrak
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:24 am UTC

Nooooooooo Chribba :(

Not even anything really of much value on that ship either. Fail suicide gank is fail.

I'd check out one of the alliances in the South, tbh. AAA, NCdot. There's a lot of pew to be had.

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BlackSails
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Re: EVE Online

Postby BlackSails » Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:35 am UTC

It wasnt a suicide gank. (Check out the ships involved. People are not suicide ganking in black ops)

halbarad
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Re: EVE Online

Postby halbarad » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:01 pm UTC

There was a topic in C&P about it. Seems like it may have been them dropping a can with veld in it and he couldn't resist free veld. Not sure how I would feel if I saw chribba go red to me.

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Izawwlgood
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:56 pm UTC

I don't see why that's interesting at all. Someone killed a ship Chribba was flying. Wooie.
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halbarad
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Re: EVE Online

Postby halbarad » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:00 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I don't see why that's interesting at all. Someone killed a ship Chribba was flying. Wooie.


It's e-honour for people. Would maybe have been more amusing if it had been a mining tengu.

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Izawwlgood
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:04 pm UTC

Yeah, that's something that turned me off from eve; is the honor that a large group took down a tengu? or that chribba was piloting it?
My response to both is 'so?'
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BlackSails
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Re: EVE Online

Postby BlackSails » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:08 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Yeah, that's something that turned me off from eve; is the honor that a large group took down a tengu? or that chribba was piloting it?
My response to both is 'so?'


Chribba hasnt been killed in over 2 years. Its actually a very difficult thing to do.

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Mishrak
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:03 am UTC

Oh woops. I didn't notice the ships on the mail. I just saw that it was in high sec and assumed it was a suicide gank.

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Izawwlgood
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:02 am UTC

BlackSails wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:Yeah, that's something that turned me off from eve; is the honor that a large group took down a tengu? or that chribba was piloting it?
My response to both is 'so?'


Chribba hasnt been killed in over 2 years. Its actually a very difficult thing to do.

To find him?
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BlackSails
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Re: EVE Online

Postby BlackSails » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:10 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
BlackSails wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:Yeah, that's something that turned me off from eve; is the honor that a large group took down a tengu? or that chribba was piloting it?
My response to both is 'so?'


Chribba hasnt been killed in over 2 years. Its actually a very difficult thing to do.

To find him?


No, he is pretty easy to find, afaik. Isnt he usually mining in high sec in a titan?

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Alasseo
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:40 am UTC

Dreadnought. You've never been able to get a titan into HS.

He's also often in lowsec for sales of titans/moms, though that may be with an alt, I dunno.
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Izawwlgood
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:42 pm UTC

I'm confident suicide ganking a dread is probably no small order, but doable (especially considering you know exactly which system he'll be doing it in), and that taking down a cloaky ship is only as hard as finding a cloaky ship (meaning it doesn't matter who the pilot is, really). So cool, someone killed the most famous of Eve players. Woo.

Remember, Chribba isn't famous because he's an ungodly pilot with phenomenal powers, he's famous because of the service he offers. Even all the ISK in New Eden couldn't make a Tengu that could withstand a decent sized gang.
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Alasseo
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:22 pm UTC

The reason it's notable is the same reason that *checks tabloids* "Shakira, Boyfriend Caught Locking Lips!" is notable. He's (e)famous, and something happened to him. He also happened to not have this thing happen to him for some time. Just let it lie, Iz.
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Alasseo
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:56 am UTC

So what's happening in Eve? I've been out of the loop for a month. I know the patch notes, but what about 0.0 dramaz?
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Re: EVE Online

Postby halbarad » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:25 pm UTC

Not sure there is much drama yet, CSM6 is about to properly start up with about 4 members being NC/Goons (including The Mittani as chair). Could lead to some good drama and forum rage about changes to 0.0.

I'm guessing we'll see some drama in the coming days as alliances cope with having no sanctums and the pets who do have them start to be evicted.

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Swivelguy
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Swivelguy » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:26 am UTC

Anyone else stuck in "you do not appear to be connected to the internet" limbo? I'm kinda trying to wage internet spaceship war, here.

:RAGE:
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Spambot5546 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:06 pm UTC

So I've got this buddy. He's a big carebear, and he LOVES mining. He also insists on being a one-man manufacturing line. He wants to get into ship manufacturing, and his goal is to mine all the minerals himself, even going to far as to go into low-sec to get Nocx and Zyd*. Today at work I got bored and made him a chart of why this is a bad Idea.

A vexor, assuming PE V and 0 wastage, requires:

Trit: 307,774
Pyer: 77,202
Mex: 26,179
Iso: 5,349
Nocx: 1,276
Zyd: 261
Megacyte: 53

Based on the EVE-Central median prices he would have to mine 38,276 m3 of veld to buy the minerals needed to make this. That takes 27.34 minutes assuming a Hulk with 1400 m3/minute mining. With a average vexor price of 4,247,000 that gives him an isk/hr of approximately 9.3m.

If he mines all the high-sec minerals himself and then mines some veld to pay for the low-sec minerals he's going to need 16,996 m3 to get the high-sec mins and another 11,820 m3 to buy the low-sec mins. Total there is 38,816 m3. The difference is rather smaller than I thought, but still cuts his isk/hr down to 9,173,520.

Simply selling the veld, with veld being worth 100.9 isk/m3 is only worth 8,475,886.

I don't have any particular point I'm trying to make, I just wanted to share the fruits of my boredom.

*He lives in Gall space where Roxeres is not available. He also doesn't seem to know that megacyte is not available outside 0.0.
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Izawwlgood
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:09 pm UTC

Did you tell him that minerals you mine aren't free?
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Mishrak
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:13 pm UTC

It's fun, for a little bit. The newness of shooting rocks with lazors and doing the math and stuff can be fun. It's an extremely inefficient use of time though. T1 ship production in general isn't that profitable. If you're selling them in Jita, the margins at best are maybe 8 or 10% if you throw out time spent.

Where t1 ship production becomes profitable is if you're providing a service for an alliance and including fittings. Still not my cup of tea though.

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Izawwlgood
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:37 pm UTC

Mining ABC is pretty profitable, but I think mining empire ores peaks around 7-9m/hr/person depending. It can be fun to make something from scratch (mine everything you need, or sell a ton of trit and buy the neccesary stuff), but frankly, because the markets are so fluid, ISK is ISK is ISK and everything is worth ISK.

I still think Sleeper sites are the most profitable thing in the game, peaking out at like 120m/hr/person when you milk them with capitols. Or, if you're willing to be a bit more careful, 3x carriers could complete (clear and salvage) C6s in 2 hrs which would probably be about 400m/person, or 200m/person/hr.

Ish.
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Swivelguy
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Swivelguy » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:16 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I still think Sleeper sites are the most profitable thing in the game, peaking out at like 120m/hr/person when you milk them with capitols. Or, if you're willing to be a bit more careful, 3x carriers could complete (clear and salvage) C6s in 2 hrs which would probably be about 400m/person, or 200m/person/hr.


Far from it. You may make 120 mil/hr while you're in the site, but you spend at least as long out of sites scanning and rolling WHs as you do in sites.

Meanwhile, in 0.0, you can run anomalies nonstop 23/7 in the same system, with a supercap if you've got one, with a multiple system-deep safety net of local chat and intel channels...
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Re: EVE Online

Postby halbarad » Wed May 11, 2011 7:50 am UTC

Null Sec changes coming.

The rage on the forums everywhere is great, and it's not just from NC.

I'm looking forward to some of the other changes too, hints have been dropped about possible changes to unprobable ships and some other stuff. Looks like CCP are finally making larger positive moves to improve their game (after all the efforts of Team BFF to make small changes).

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Alasseo
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Wed May 11, 2011 11:30 am UTC

the tears.. they fuel my ships. BoB, ASCN, XETIC, RA, TCF, and more I forget had multi-thousand player multi-region empires, pre-jump bridge/titans/JFs.

Grow a pair, NC.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby halbarad » Wed May 11, 2011 12:00 pm UTC

I've been in 2 NC pet alliances and I only used JBs when I was in the first one (1 JB to EC-P8R for quick trips to high sec), the second one I just got sick of them and preferred to see if I could get any fights going the ~15 jumps from high sec to our home system.

On another note, apparently changes to agents are on Sisi, including no quality anymore, no social skills relating to them and only 3 divisions (kill/courier/mining). Could be an interesting attempt to spread people out more, I suspect it's likely to fail, though it does help me a bit as I prefer to mission in the lower population systems to reduce ganks and ninjas.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Wed May 11, 2011 12:44 pm UTC

The jump bridge changes are necessary and have been overdue for a long time now. If you've ever seen the NC's jump bridge super network, it's absolutely monsterous how far they can travel.

It will slow down travel a bit, but now the hostile entity actually has a chance at catching the blob that's jump bridging around. At the very least, this is a change that will spice things up a bit and we'll see whether or not it stays, or whether they twerk it more. I personally can't wait for it to go live.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby halbarad » Wed May 11, 2011 1:38 pm UTC

And with the ongoing war in the north it should lead to some interesting fights.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby musashi1600 » Wed May 11, 2011 5:24 pm UTC

I've been away from Eve since since August of 2009, after trying to find a place for myself as a miner/industrialist, getting into a nullsec corp, then leaving it all because I wasn't enjoying it like I thought I would. I've recently been contemplating going back and starting from scratch (new account, new characters) and making a go as a trader in highsec; nullsec life wasn't worth the stress while I was there. Is it worth trying (been reading some of the Market Discussions guides), or am I setting myself up to burn out again?
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Mishrak
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Wed May 11, 2011 5:27 pm UTC

I think one of the largets sources of income for an average player that doesn't want to venture to nullsec and doesn't want to run missions, is trading. It's a pretty decent amount of work, but risk/reward is good compared to most other things. Just be alert of suicide gankers and don't haul 4b worth of mods in a t1 hauler.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Swivelguy » Wed May 11, 2011 5:34 pm UTC

So, upcoming patch changes:

- Agent quality removal (may nerf datacore farming?)
- Jumpbridge nerf (may nerf T2 supply in general?)

I kind of want to stockpile something and make a massive profit on the patch, but I don't know if I can stomach the risk... :(
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Mishrak
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Wed May 11, 2011 5:38 pm UTC

Where did you see that they're changing agent quality?

Also, I don't think the JB nerf will hurt logistics as much as people are expecting. JF's will just have be a little smarter with how they move around. Freighters will be using more titan bridges also.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby halbarad » Wed May 11, 2011 9:40 pm UTC

Mishrak wrote:Where did you see that they're changing agent quality?


It's on Sisi right now. It's not "final" but it might still hit TQ as it is.

musashi1600 wrote:I've been away from Eve since since August of 2009, after trying to find a place for myself as a miner/industrialist, getting into a nullsec corp, then leaving it all because I wasn't enjoying it like I thought I would. I've recently been contemplating going back and starting from scratch (new account, new characters) and making a go as a trader in highsec; nullsec life wasn't worth the stress while I was there. Is it worth trying (been reading some of the Market Discussions guides), or am I setting myself up to burn out again?


I'd strongly recommend not starting from scratch. Keep the account and character, training all those basic skills up again is what is putting me off from getting an another alt. And most corps really don't care about your previous corps unless something really strange stands out (membership in known merc corps like Orphans etc might cause issues, but not likely if your a miner/industrialis).


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