EVE Online

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Izawwlgood
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:11 pm UTC

Well, yeah, except that one wouldn't expect to see a vulture in wing or squad command of a group of megathrons.

I'm not saying that its stupid or even useless, I'm just saying its not well thought out. Its not *optimal*.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby mazzilliu » Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:31 am UTC

So what do you guys think about how the alliance tournament was handled so far? this morning was the end of day three, and next weekend will be more live broadcasts. the format is mostly the same as the last tournament six months ago, and the GM seems to be overall better at handling people the same like one would expect of a referee in any game. personally i like the format except for the fact that without some change in the points system the matchups will become stale by the end of this tournament. logistics ships are too common for my taste and decrease variety. i like to chat with corpmates while the broadcast is going on and criticize the entrants for their bad tactics when they are being stupid :mrgreen:

oh and how did my alliance do?
match one Pandemic Legion Vs Brutally Clever Empire: we won but they killed some of our frigates
match two Pandemic Legion Vs Cry Havoc.: both of us went full-on tank, and neither side got any kills. a draw, but due to the way the points system works, it was just as bad as a loss with no kills for both of us
match three Pandemic Legion Vs Mercenary Coalition: we won, almost got totalhelldeath but time ran out
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Irrefutable
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Irrefutable » Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:21 pm UTC

Pandemic Legion have been doing well, not fantastic fights to watch but still interesting

Best fight of the tourny has to be the Noteriety fight with the Phantasms, that was a joy to watch

So how is Snigg these days?
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Re: EVE Online

Postby mazzilliu » Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:31 pm UTC

Irrefutable wrote:So how is Snigg these days?

beginning to finish up the war and everybody is itching to reset almost everybody and stop shooting pos. opened sniggwaffe for recruitment which everybody should join btw :mrgreen:
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Torwegia » Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:10 pm UTC

I just started the trial, im going to go pick up a game card at some point. Maybe we can chat later in game or something, so far i've just been mining but i think im going to finish the second tutorial agent missions. =) The game is beautiful

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Rook » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:23 pm UTC

mazzilliu wrote:beginning to finish up the war and everybody is itching to reset almost everybody and stop shooting pos. opened sniggwaffe for recruitment which everybody should join btw :mrgreen:

Seriously considering it. How strict are you on the 'no PC corp alts that aren't in Pandemic Legion' thing? My only other character is in a corp composed of about half a dozen RL friends of mine. He's balanced, but with major industrial leanings at present. In other words, a little stale right now, but still handy. And it's nice to fly with people you know from outside once in a while :)
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Re: EVE Online

Postby mazzilliu » Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:56 pm UTC

Rook wrote:
mazzilliu wrote:beginning to finish up the war and everybody is itching to reset almost everybody and stop shooting pos. opened sniggwaffe for recruitment which everybody should join btw :mrgreen:

Seriously considering it. How strict are you on the 'no PC corp alts that aren't in Pandemic Legion' thing? My only other character is in a corp composed of about half a dozen RL friends of mine. He's balanced, but with major industrial leanings at present. In other words, a little stale right now, but still handy. And it's nice to fly with people you know from outside once in a while :)

close friends is fine. the specific situation we want to avoid is when we're bashing on some group somewhere and we find out a member has strong ties to that group. due to the nature of our corp, we dont want our members to have conflicting loyalties. a small corp like you described is fine, just make sure they stay out of the way of our gangs because we will expect you to shoot them also, if they are not blue. :D

(they can pay ISK and be blue, too!) :mrgreen:


Torwegia wrote:I just started the trial, im going to go pick up a game card at some point. Maybe we can chat later in game or something, so far i've just been mining but i think im going to finish the second tutorial agent missions. =) The game is beautiful


I have two starter sets, and the card game is pretty well designed. competitive play seems to have some problems though, mostly the issue of getting your cards mixed up with your opponent's deck and lack of organized competitive play. other then that, i had fun playing with it.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby hendusoone » Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:50 pm UTC

I think he meant timecard...
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Rook » Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:52 pm UTC

Signed up as Kaja Valentine. She's pretty new, but combat focused, so she should be packing a lot more punch relatively soon :wink:
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Irrefutable » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:47 pm UTC

Pandemic Legion are down and out.

Final in an hour or so, im pretty stoked for this :)
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Re: EVE Online

Postby mazzilliu » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:12 pm UTC

Irrefutable wrote:Pandemic Legion are down and out.

Final in an hour or so, im pretty stoked for this :)

WE'RE #4 WOOOOO :lol:

the tournament was awesome and i enjoyed it a lot. i think the competition was tougher then last time even though the rules were the same because people knew better what to bring.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Torwegia » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:17 am UTC

i got a subscription, Gallente pilot because their ships dont look like shit and they aren't enslavers(I might train Amarr ships at one point though). I am really enjoying doing level one missions in my incursus. Fun game, i just need to find some people to help me and to get away from all the isk spammers. =(

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Re: EVE Online

Postby mazzilliu » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:24 am UTC

Torwegia wrote:i got a subscription, Gallente pilot because their ships dont look like shit and they aren't enslavers(I might train Amarr ships at one point though). I am really enjoying doing level one missions in my incursus. Fun game, i just need to find some people to help me and to get away from all the isk spammers. =(

travel to alperaute- bottom station, apply to sniggwaffe. very newbie friendly corp, you instantly get accepted. you will then live in lowsec and 0.0 where there are no isk spammers, while also learning a ton of basic and advanced eve stuff. :mrgreen:
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:47 am UTC

And be cannon fodder for pirates! FOR PIRATES!!!

Fly to torrinos and put an application to Starbound. You'll have investment opportunities, 0.0 access, and guidance from a bunch of industrio-combat helpful dudes.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Torwegia » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:30 pm UTC

i have been told to train learning skills for now, is that the smart thing to do?

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Coin » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:25 am UTC

It depends on how long you are planing to play the game. If you are going to play for more than two months I strongly recomend getting a couple of learning skills under your belt: learning, intellect, memory, perception and willpower will decrease the time it takes you to learn a lot of skills. Depending on what you want to do it might be worth concidering training charisma as well.

I recomend downloading the tool EveMon to help you in planning your learning. I was sceptical about it at first but after trying it out I'm completely sold.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:53 am UTC

How obsessive do you plan to be, and how good are you at doing the impossible? I had all of my basic learnings maxed and all of my adv learnings at 4 before I seriously started training other skills, and I also went back and got two of them to level 5 later. (and by "all" I mean "all besides cha", because back when I was doing learnings leadership was done way differently, and I'm not interested in the others)

I did train a few skills here and there, but I was doing level 2 missions in an armor tanking rifter back after RMR while training learnings. I still can't fly anythign heavier than a HAC/Hictor, but that's by choice.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Gadren » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:42 am UTC

Can anyone here recommend a corp for me? Or, if it's one of the above-mentioned corps, why it would be a good fit for me?

I'm about a month old, with 1.7 million SP, and have experience in PvE in a Vexor (working my way toward a Myrmidon), mining, and hauling. The current corp I'm in is pretty fun, but it's gone a bit inactive, and the stuff we do is limited to chatting and the occasional fleet ratting. I really like the idea of low-sec and 0.0, but know that it'll be some time until I get to the point where I'm confident to do that sort of thing (especially 0.0). The anti-pirating stance of my current corp has, I think, stunted my development of the combat skills I need to do PvP. It's not that my current corp is bad, it's just that things don't really change and we each do our own thing more than I would like.

So I guess what I'm looking for in a corp is one that's active, where there's a good amount of stuff going on. I also think that a corp of a certain moderate size would be good, where I can get lost in the crowd enough to be in the midst of the resources and guidance I need to improve myself (so it's not just me and a couple other people out on the frontier), but also not so large and faceless that I can't really progress within the corp or make a difference.

One goal I have is to use my fledgling mining and hauling skills to actual profitable use, but mainly I want to learn how to truly get into what seems to be a lot of the "real" game: low-sec and (maybe someday) 0.0, particularly PvP.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Coin » Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:55 am UTC

Sounds like you want a medium sized hybrid corp that is part of a bigger alliance.
I'll send you a PM and put you in touch with the recruiters of my corp Darklite.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Torwegia » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:07 pm UTC

well i think i might get into a cruiser before i go hardcore into the learning skills, i'd like to fly some thing other than a frig. I did get some of the learning skills though; Analytical Mind level 2, Instant Recall level 3, Iron Will level 3, Learning level 3, and Spatial Awareness level 4. I do plan on playing for a while so i figure i should get those higher. I also looked at the books for the advanced skills and i dont think ill have the money for those any time soon. 4.5 mil per book ftl

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Gadren » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:32 pm UTC

Coin wrote:Sounds like you want a medium sized hybrid corp that is part of a bigger alliance.
I'll send you a PM and put you in touch with the recruiters of my corp Darklite.


I got your PM and your corp sounds pretty cool -- but I'm someone who has only gone into low-sec a couple times. Would jumping right into 0.0 even be good at this point?

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Re: EVE Online

Postby ThomasS » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:51 pm UTC

Regarding learning skills, it is just a question of new toys now versus long term growth. My normal recommendation is try for about 50% sp in learning until you have all learning skills (or at least all that matter to you) up to level 4. But it really depends on how sure you are that you are in it for the long haul. If you are still trying things out, go ahead and skill whatever you need to do that.

Regarding low sec/0.0... First of all, in many ways low sec is more dangerous than 0.0.

In 0.0, space actually seems empty. You might go jumps and jumps without seeing another face in local. If you join a corp that has a normal sort of 0.0 access, and you stay in "your" territory, the odds are good that when you do see somebody in local they will have the little blue star by their icon which means that your alliance has an arrangement with them to not shoot you. Furthermore, you will have an intel channel in which the location of reds/neutrals is reported and where defense fleets are mustered. On the other hand, if you go out by yourself, esp while still in an npc corp, they will assume that you are hostile, and while space might be mostly empty, there might soon be a defense fleet actively trying to figure out where you went.

In low sec, on the other hand, it seems like every Tom Dick and Harry is passing through, all neutral, so you have no idea which are likely to shoot you and which are more worried that you'll shoot them.

The real problem with 0.0 as a new character is that it can be hard to make money solo. There are great rats, and great rocks, but a well fitted bc is about the smallest/cheapest ship that you can effectively rat in, and mining tends to be a multi person (or at least, multi-character) endeavor. However, a well organized pvp focused corp might give out ships and such as needed to get new players pvping without making them mine or rat to pay for the ships. A good program like this could largely removes the only real problem with a new character heading out to 0.0.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:52 am UTC

Don't forget the added issue of getting your loot/ore OUT of 0.0. Which aside from Jump Freighters, there is no real efficient way of doing.

Our entrance/exit is 50% camped by ev0ke.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:27 am UTC

Honestly, most loot isn't worth getting out, and you should generally be melting/refining all but the officer/faction stuff that you covops/blockade runner/jump out and selling the mins to alliance producers. That's what I've seen in several alliances, including my own. Gives you ships at a discount, solves the loot hauling problem, and makes everyone win.

Also, I didn't learn the cruiser skill until my one-year anniversary in the game. Over two years and like I said, nothing heavier than hac/hictor, still. Only minmatar, too. Battleships aren't the only way to have fun in Eve. >)
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Re: EVE Online

Postby ThomasS » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:35 am UTC

Getting stuff to/from 0.0 is a problem for new an old characters alike, and very dependent on where your alliance is settled. Before jump freighters, carriers were used. I recently heard that they somehow nerfed carrier hauling though, does anybody know how? Before carriers (and apparently, now again with the nerf) dreads were used.

Even jump drives aren't totally foolproof though. I remember listening in on vent as a corp mate worked at using the running cyno trick to get a cyno inside a pos bubble.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:53 am UTC

I wish I hadn't wasted time getting BS 4 and the related gunnery skills. That said, we all suffer from the shiny's. And man, battleships are cool looking.

But before that blasted myrmidon nerf, I was ratting in the myrmidon more effectively then in the domi. Aside from the diminished cargospace, I wasn't seeing much of a difference in terms of tankability (myrmi has less tankable dps but is also smaller, so battleships deal less damage to it then the domi) or damage (I never fit guns on the domi for ratting, the ammo wasn't worth A) lining up, or B) THAT big of a difference and C) There where better utilities to be had.)

So yeah, my advice for long term training for straight pvp: beeline for HACs and t2 gear. Skip destroyers. Don't bother with BSs.

If your interested in industry/pvp mix, don't bother with mining barges, as there are some potent mining battleship/BC setups. And a retriever mines about as well as a brutix, so unless your investing the month to get up to covetors and therefor hulks, just satisfy yourself with a smattering of combat/mining skills.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Xeio » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:24 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:So yeah, my advice for long term training for straight pvp: beeline for HACs and t2 gear. Skip destroyers. Don't bother with BSs.


Lies, BSs are quite effective if you know how to use them. They are significantly harder to spec for than most smaller ships though (at least, for T2 weapons). T2 gear is a must for anything though. I will agree with the skip destroyers, probably one of the most useless ship types in the game...

Though, everyone likes to play differently, and its nice to have a bit of everything for a good fleet, so train for what you like, then whats needed. :D

Izawwlgood wrote:If your interested in industry/pvp mix, don't bother with mining barges, as there are some potent mining battleship/BC setups. And a retriever mines about as well as a brutix, so unless your investing the month to get up to covetors and therefor hulks, just satisfy yourself with a smattering of combat/mining skills.


Actually, retrievers are nice if only for one reason, you don't have to click and drag so much (once every 3 minutes for strip miners, while non-strips cycle in one). And if you want to do any real mining, covvies or hulks are a must, theres a guide on it somewhere, but I don't have a link handy that breaks down the exact math. I should also note that only a hulk can tank 0.0 spawns by itself (of the barges, though, the other exhumers probably can as well), so if you want to make real isk mining, you're going to want one anyway. Granted, if you don't do a lot of mining it doesn't matter to you anyway, but to really mine the extra time is well worth the wait.

EDIT: And exteded downtime (along with this patch) SUCKS!

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Irrefutable » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:20 am UTC

[rant]

AH LONG DOWN TIME AHHHHH

[/RANT]

[RANT ON DISCOVERING THE EVE O FORUMS ARE DOWN TO]

AAAAAAAAAAAAH

[/RANT]
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Irrefutable » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:24 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:So yeah, my advice for long term training for straight pvp: beeline for HACs and t2 gear. Skip destroyers. Don't bother with BSs.


Getting into a HAC too early is just going to cause bankrupcy and annoyance if you do it too early

My advice (though this isnt gospel) is if you want to PVP train for your favorite Cruiser and train and train until you can fully tech 2 fit it and fly it well.

However going the route of the small ships is also viable

P.S Destroyers kick ass
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:59 pm UTC

No one is going to get a HAC "to early" as cruiser 5 is a month long train, meaning anyone who's hopping in a t2 fitted HAC has been around at least 4-5 months. At that point, if you can't scrounge together 150-200 mil, your lazy and haven't been doing EvE right. If you've been alternating some industry skills in, all the more reason.

Furthermore, solo mining is lame and shit tons less profitable then mining with a group. 6 BC/BS's mining are going to be less effective then 2 Hulks (maybe 3, I'd have to check the math again).

The breakdown ends up being a Hulk being able to pull in about 1300 m3 ore/min or so, while a retriever pulls in about 800. A brutix with equal mining skills pulls in about 740-780, and a battleship (hyperion, apoc...) pulls about 1100. Higher ores result in less pullage as figures are rounded down (this makes mining drones more and more ineffectual).

Soooo, i dunno, you make the call.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Xeio » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:57 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:The breakdown ends up being a Hulk being able to pull in about 1300 m3 ore/min or so, while a retriever pulls in about 800. A brutix with equal mining skills pulls in about 740-780, and a battleship (hyperion, apoc...) pulls about 1100. Higher ores result in less pullage as figures are rounded down (this makes mining drones more and more ineffectual).


I can see the 700ish figure for battlecruisers, but how the hell are you fitting a battleship to get more than 8-900? :shock: I mean, there are mining upgrades, but you can fit 1-2 before you need to start alternating them with CPU upgrades.

Izawwlgood wrote:No one is going to get a HAC "to early" as cruiser 5 is a month long train, meaning anyone who's hopping in a t2 fitted HAC has been around at least 4-5 months. At tha


You can get in any ship too early (well, maybe not a T1 frig/cruiser). This is easy to see if you've ever seen a noob fly a battleship, or a T2 ship. the biggest problem is usually someone rushes to get a shiny new ship and either skips, or decides to do the support skills for that ship 'after' they get in it. What usually ends up happening is they fly around in their new shiny (poorly fitted) ship before they're ready and it pops and they cry.

Also, they have extended the extended downtime. WE ARE DOOMED! (And I hope you all have long skills training)

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Re: EVE Online

Postby hendusoone » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:23 pm UTC

I forgot about the downtime when I picked my next skill to train. I just happened to pick one that finished about 5 minutes after the downtime started.

Yeah, I'm annoyed at myself. Good going, me.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby PhantomReality » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:33 pm UTC

So I just downloaded the client, which gave me a bunch of problems which I fixed. Signed up for an account, Tried to log in....hurray server is down for maintenance! My first impression of EVE is no good. But I'm really excited to play.

I'm totally down for joining an XKCD corporation or whatever, I'd love to help represent the XKCDizzle is this branch of the digital world!
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:47 pm UTC

Those values are estimates, but here, let me do a breakdown:

Hyperion with 8x Modulated Deep Core Miner II's fitted with t2 crystals, 3x mining laser upgrade II's and 3x Co-proc II's.

Each laser pulls 379.846 m3 per 180s cycle. Without a Mining Foreman in group (which can be trained on the miners pilot and results in a 10% increase in yield) or even a mining director in group (which I have and is useful in groups of 3 or more), your looking at 1012.8 m3/min.

So I was actually giving a conservative estimate. Here, retriever, hulk, and brutix now:

Retriever:
2x Modulated Strip Miner II's with t2 crystals, Mining laser upgrade II and a Co-proc II
Each strip pulls 1188.63 m3 per 180s cycle, for a total of 792 m3/min.

Hulk (because once your in a covetor, your basically in a hulk):
3x Modulated Strip Miner II's with t2 crystals 2x Mining laser upgrade II's (if you don't have mining upgrades 5 you might only be able to fit 1, but there seems to be a lot of CPU left over)
Each strip pulls 1435.274 m3 per 180s cycle, for a total of 1435.274 m3/min (for the interested, thats filling a can every 18min!)

Brutix:
7x Modulated Deep Core Miner II w/t2 crystals, 4x co-proc II's and 1 Mining Laser Upgrade II (It should be pointed out that with 3 co-proc's and 2 mining laser upgrades, you exceed your CPU limit by less then a single tf! a single rig will make 2x mining laser upgrades fittable)
Each laser pulls 361.758 m3 per 180s cycle, for a total of 844.1 m3/min. Note that a brutix, being a BC, can drop a laser and fit a link to provide up to a 25% bonus to yield (10% for mining foreman 5, 10% mining director 5 + an additional 5% for warfare link specialist 5), making it more useful in groups of miners.

So my estimates where actually conservative. Sorry for the lengthy post, I just want to point out that its possible to be a pretty solid miner without ever training a barge skill, and especially if you want to be a group miner (like me). This is useful as it also cross trains you for some combat skills (as you have more room for drones now and such, and are more tempted when confronted with pirates to run back to base and refit for combat).

Obviously the Hulk is the best miner in game, I'm not disputing that, but I am saying that as EvE is a social game, and say, 4 people want to mine together, 4 Hulks is less mining efficient then 3 Hulks + 1 Brutix with a mining link. Mining should be done socially, not solo. So go kill a macro-miner in your area today!

Note: THE BRUTIX OUTMINES THE RETRIEVER!
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Xeio
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Xeio » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:31 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Modulated Deep Core Miner II's


You know, for some reason I never noticed these (or maybe I just assumed 'deep core' meant meroxite miner like it does for strips). :shock:

PhantomReality wrote:So I just downloaded the client, which gave me a bunch of problems which I fixed. Signed up for an account, Tried to log in....hurray server is down for maintenance! My first impression of EVE is no good. But I'm really excited to play.

I'm totally down for joining an XKCD corporation or whatever, I'd love to help represent the XKCDizzle is this branch of the digital world!


Hehe, bad luck there, you picked a patch day to sign up. Its normall not quite this bad. :wink:

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:33 pm UTC

Sometimes I don't bother using the Modulated mining lasers, as you have to bother about crystals and its sometimes easier to just use miner II's and pull everything. But you will see a pretty significant increase in yield with them.

The t1 variant, the Deep Core Mining Laser I is a mercoxit specialty laser (i think?), but the t2 variant can fit any crystal.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Rook » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:51 pm UTC

Torwegia wrote:well i think i might get into a cruiser before i go hardcore into the learning skills, i'd like to fly some thing other than a frig. I did get some of the learning skills though; Analytical Mind level 2, Instant Recall level 3, Iron Will level 3, Learning level 3, and Spatial Awareness level 4. I do plan on playing for a while so i figure i should get those higher. I also looked at the books for the advanced skills and i dont think ill have the money for those any time soon. 4.5 mil per book ftl

It amazes me that more people don't say this: Get EVEMon. Just decide what your plan is (long or short term) for what you want to be able to do/fly, put in the skills you need, and it'll tell you what learning skills you should train to save time across that plan, and no more. Good way of optimising the time it'll take you to get into, say, a HAC.

Also, argh at extended downtime. Good thing I stuck a two-day on ;)
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Irrefutable
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Irrefutable » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:19 pm UTC

Too much miney miney discussion in here, needs moar pew pew

You can easily get into a HAC too early and saying you should easily be able to spend 300 mil or so on a ship at 5 months ingame is just simply not true.

Try piracy and the like, ill be very impressed if you can work up that much of a wallet, personally the most amount of isk ive ever had ingame is about 400 mil
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Re: EVE Online

Postby mazzilliu » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:35 pm UTC

Irrefutable wrote:Too much miney miney discussion in here, needs moar pew pew

You can easily get into a HAC too early and saying you should easily be able to spend 300 mil or so on a ship at 5 months ingame is just simply not true.

Try piracy and the like, ill be very impressed if you can work up that much of a wallet, personally the most amount of isk ive ever had ingame is about 400 mil

at 5 months, you shouldn't be flying hacs, you should be flying ceptors and dictors and t1 cruisers. just becuase you can shove your pod in a ship doesn't mean you should shove your pod in a ship. spaceship command skills are a prerequisite, but the support skills and gunnery are what make or break your setup.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Irrefutable » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:57 pm UTC

Indeed, i didnt get my first HAC until 2 years ingame, until then it was Cruisers and Battlecruisers all the way

And ive never even used a BS in pvp :)

Side topic: AF boost kthx CCP :(
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