EVE Online

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Lumpy » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:10 am UTC

It's like walking between towns in a fantasy MMORPG, but it takes one-tenth of the time, but you're even more bored during that time because you just have empty space, except for asteroids and conspicuously frequent clouds of black gas, and you don't have the scenery of trees and furry woodland creatures

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:53 am UTC

Traveling in eve i've found is actually quicker then traveling in some other mmo's. I don't care about the scenery, or if theres trees and chirping birds, because I'd rather be in space. Crossing empire will take you about 45 minutes of warping, give or take 10 min or so. The universe is large, deal with it. If anything, the Eveverse feels to small given the politics.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Robin S » Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:16 am UTC

A MMORPG with realistic scales could be seriously epic. Would something similar to Spore's procedurally-generated content system be able to support something like that?
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Re: EVE Online

Postby mazzilliu » Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:42 am UTC

Robin S wrote:A MMORPG with realistic scales could be seriously epic. Would something similar to Spore's procedurally-generated content system be able to support something like that?

scales are realistic in EVE. distances are measured in light years(distance between systems), AU(distance between objects in a solar system), kilometers(distance between a planet and its sattelites, or distance between you and something close enough to be on your overview), and meters(if youre really really close up). one thing thats really nice is that there is a scanner in game that takes some skill to master, but once you do you can use it to detect where anything is within your 3 dimensional solar system, within 14.5 AU from you. its really cool. the size of every ship is within scale, if you set a frigate next to a battleship in space its going to be puny in comparison.

i dont know how spore's system works, but eve universe was randomly generated when the game began and every solar system is differnt with reguards to total size, number of planets, moons, asteroid belts, and how many stargates connect it. they dont move in their orbits over time however, a small sacrifice in realism to avoid massive game mechanic issues imo :mrgreen:

even though it does nothing atm, you can look at individual stars/moons/planets and see their properties, size, what kind of climate it is. some of the earth-like and electric storm planets are beautiful.

the combat system, while im not sure how realistic it is(due to lack of RL space combat to compare it to), is very complex and takes into account factors such as the target's speed, your speed, radial velocity between the two, target size, gun range, all depending on which weapon system you use(for the record, missiles are simpler but turrets have more potential in fleet combat, theres also smartbombs and bombs and drones and electronic warfare). realistic or not, it seems logical enough so it doesnt seem contrived and theres lots of different attacking mods you can use. you can engage in combat in different ways such as orbiting your target, holding still, keeping at range, approach, or clicking an arbitrary point in space and go at your chosen speed. they use underwater physics with relation to speed rather then space physics, so you cant actually accelerate more and more. the game makes a few sacrifices to realism for the sake of playability, iirc they said in testing it was pretty much unplayable with space physics. actually i could go on and on about unrealistic things in eve. but its not something that degrades the quality of the game.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:49 am UTC

Weeeeeeeeellll... That projectile and hybrid weapons hit their targets immediately after firing is a bit unrealistic. That missiles never miss is also unrealistic. That spaceships have a maximum velocity is further unrealistic...

Also, and this has always bugged me, an AU (astronomical unit) is the measurement of the avg distance between the sun and the earth. It is a fixed unit. Which is completely and utterly irrelevant in the Eve universe, which is earth-less.

You can make a universe as large or as small as you want, that doesn't matter, what matters is how quickly the player can traverse it. It takes me 18 minutes to walk to work. It also takes me ~18 minutes to fly from my home base to Jita, the market central. believe you me, Jita's way further ;)
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Robin S » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:23 am UTC

mazzilliu wrote:scales are realistic in EVE.
So, in theory, you could traverse every cubic metre of space out of all those cubic lightyears? How about every square metre of every planetary surfaces? Realistic scale in a mostly empty void, the majority of which (by volume) people will have no motivation to traverse doesn't strike me as being quite as impressive as realistic scale on a planet with scenery. Just one planet's worth of completely-traversable scenery would probably be enough to get me to try at least the free trial of a game, assuming reasonable graphics quality.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:18 pm UTC

Yeah, honestly, Eve is tiny. People bitch about how long it takes to go from Jita to their station of choice in 0.0, but it should take longer. Making logistics trains matter is what I hope happens to eve eventually. Would break Jita.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:53 pm UTC

Robin, say a system is 100 AU's long (i still hate that measurement for EVE). You can warp across the whole thing, and you can lay what are called bookmarks along the way. You can warp to any of those bookmarks. The distance traveled in 1 AU under warp would take you roughly an hour to travel if you were uber-crazy style fit for ultimate speed. So yes, you can 'explore' every cubic meter of those enormous light years (within system anyway), but, space is big and empty. Asteroids are only found in asteroid belts, but that may be changing soon, and hidden complexes (sort of like dungeons that are found randomly) must be probed down, you won't stumble across one randomly.

Most MMO's i've played have had enemies seeded over ranges, so no matter where you roam in a region you'll find enemies spawning. Not so in Eve. Enemies spawn on gates and in asteroid belts. That said, players can probe you down wherever you are.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Token » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:03 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:The distance traveled in 1 AU under warp would take you roughly an hour to travel if you were uber-crazy style fit for ultimate speed.

That is indeed an uber-crazy fit. One AU per hour is more than 41000 km/s.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby mazzilliu » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:29 pm UTC

Robin S wrote:
mazzilliu wrote:scales are realistic in EVE.
So, in theory, you could traverse every cubic metre of space out of all those cubic lightyears? How about every square metre of every planetary surfaces? Realistic scale in a mostly empty void, the majority of which (by volume) people will have no motivation to traverse doesn't strike me as being quite as impressive as realistic scale on a planet with scenery. Just one planet's worth of completely-traversable scenery would probably be enough to get me to try at least the free trial of a game, assuming reasonable graphics quality.

the planetary scenery is just a skin on a round ball. but some of the COSMOS sites and exploration and NPC combat missions have a layout of objects in space that are sometimes aesthetically pleasing. like one mission i remember that was set within an abandoned asteroid mine and rogue drones were infesting it and they were all within the abandoned asteroid object. but remember you never walk(yet), you are a spaceship. even though by volume, space is pretty empty, there are a lot of objects of interest within one solar system.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:16 pm UTC

41km/s isn't too hard to get, really. If you're not breaking 50km/s, you're not trying(tm)! Also, cosmos sites are pretty. The twisters are cool.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:30 pm UTC

Al, tell me your fit, and I'll believe it. I'm convinced its only possible in a vagabond fitted with a 100mn MWD II, with a head of implants and full rigs.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Token » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:06 pm UTC

Alasseo wrote:41km/s isn't too hard to get, really. If you're not breaking 50km/s, you're not trying(tm)!

If you look closely, I didn't say 41 km/s.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:10 pm UTC

Heh, der... Excellent point.
That said, speeds in excess of 20km/s are still nigh on unheard of. (Thats 20,000 m/s)
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Hawknc » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:17 am UTC

Okay, I've decided to create another trial account and I've finished the tutorial, the storyline missions from the first agent and gotten myself a nice decked out Kestrel and Merlin...now I'm bored. :P Any suggestions on what to do after this point? It's hard to find agents that don't have a god-awful standing and mining's not hugely profitable in this early stage.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Toeofdoom » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:13 pm UTC

When I did my most recent trial, at about that point, I checked what corp I had highest standing with, found the highest agent I could get missions from that was nearby, and went there. The fact that they were in 0.1 sec really didnt hinder me, for some reason, but at aussie times there are less pirates around I guess.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:33 pm UTC

Ah, that's what sleepy!posting will get you.

As for the fit, I don't have the 96km/s one in front of me, but you have the general idea. I believe around 40km/s could be reached as well, unlike the 96 where you'd cap out long before you got anywhere near it (and you're going way too fast for guardians to have a chance to cap xfer you). Polys, domi overdrives, faction (officer for 96) mwd, snakes, rogues, possibly a RCU to make the mwd fit (it's worth it depending on the mwd), and max-skill mindlinked claymore.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby mazzilliu » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:38 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Heh, der... Excellent point.
That said, speeds in excess of 20km/s are still nigh on unheard of. (Thats 20,000 m/s)

i can go several hundred thousand kilometers per second without going into warp :mrgreen:

(it involves warping into moons and bouncing out though. in one system i actually have an instadock bookmark that involves bouncing out of a very closeby moon and flying into the station. god help you if you miss. did i mention there are a lot of unrealistic things in eve?)

edit, also: http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/124/tempxd6.png !!
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:29 pm UTC

There's a hilarious video of a dreadnought getting pushed outward by something (I think POS shields?) and traveling at a couple km/s, totally unable to slow down or turn around.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:46 pm UTC

Raptor? Speed record for frigates is crusader, followed by claw. Can't remember if Vaga or Zealot maxes out anymore, there were competing claims for awhile. Both are faster than the frigs, though.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby mazzilliu » Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:38 pm UTC

Alasseo wrote:Can't remember if Vaga or Zealot maxes out anymore, there were competing claims for awhile. Both are faster than the frigs, though.

no they aren't. you have to spend tons and tons to go faster then a frigate, but if you spent the same on a frigate you would easily outpace everything else. then there is also the question of mass and agility which is also important in fighting, and frigates will win those hands down. especially after the speed nerf, now the increased number of slots on cruisers and battleships does not provide much of an advantage over a frigate.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:27 am UTC

for actual combat, frigs are (generally!) faster, yes. For absolute maxing out on speed, vaga/zeal utterly outstrip them. Frigs can't fit 10mn mwds, cruisers can fit 100mn mwds.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby 4=5 » Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:32 am UTC

Robin S wrote:A MMORPG with realistic scales could be seriously epic. Would something similar to Spore's procedurally-generated content system be able to support something like that?

I believe this is relevant

http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/94.html

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Rook » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:40 pm UTC

Is anybody else watching the Alliance Tournament? It's airing all this week on a live feed if you're interested:

http://www.eve-online.com/evetv/tunein.asp

Just click the grey 'Tune In' button to be linked to an appropriate feed.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby mazzilliu » Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:27 am UTC

Rook wrote:Is anybody else watching the Alliance Tournament? It's airing all this week on a live feed if you're interested:

http://www.eve-online.com/evetv/tunein.asp

Just click the grey 'Tune In' button to be linked to an appropriate feed.

we won our first match so far and are favorites to win \o/

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Xeio » Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:18 am UTC

mazzilliu wrote:
Rook wrote:Is anybody else watching the Alliance Tournament? It's airing all this week on a live feed if you're interested:

http://www.eve-online.com/evetv/tunein.asp

Just click the grey 'Tune In' button to be linked to an appropriate feed.

we won our first match so far and are favorites to win \o/

(this stuff is why you should all join sniggwaffe)


No way, Atlas Alliance is way better, even if we didn't do so well in our first match. But, I'm not really interested in that stuff anyway. Mining and pew pew are my game! :mrgreen:

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Rook » Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:38 am UTC

None of you guys are related to goonswarm by any chance? Those guys seem a little nuts. Before their match the commentators went off on a little spiel about how they once went around in a load of noob ships ganking frigates, and consistently winning :? :lol:

Impressive amounts of Caldari stuff fielded though. I don't tend to see much Caldari fleet action, even though I joined as one; almost all my RL mates are on as Galentte :lol:
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Xeio » Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:16 am UTC

Rook wrote:None of you guys are related to goonswarm by any chance? Those guys seem a little nuts. Before their match the commentators went off on a little spiel about how they once went around in a load of noob ships ganking frigates, and consistently winning :? :lol:


Their quite fun targets when they roam around Atlas space. We're busy kicking the shit out of Ka-Tet though right now, damn all these Red Alliance pets...

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:12 pm UTC

Goonswarm are (another) spin off of the somethingawful crew. Photoshop Friday, 4chan, and etc are their spawn as well. I know a couple goonies though.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Cryopyre » Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:05 pm UTC

I just joined under the name Valaani Firestorm, I'm looking for xkcders
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:49 pm UTC

Channel XKCD. I'll log in in a few minutes, shoot you a convo if you're on.

FAKEDIT: You're not.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Cryopyre » Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:41 am UTC

I'm on under illicor
Felstaff wrote:I actually see what religion is to social, economical and perhaps political progress in a similar way to what war is to technological progress.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Hawknc » Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:38 am UTC

Holy carp, there's an xkcd channel? //joins

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Irrefutable » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:18 am UTC

The Alliance tourney is great, i most enjoyed MCs epic fail with 3 Marauders going down :D

And i thought the speed record was held by a Comand Ship with an oversized 100mn Microwarp drive

And empire wars wrock, i pirated for months and this is infinatly more fun ;)
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:47 am UTC

I'm completely lagged out of Jita. So to continue what I was saying:

Each races fleet command ship is designed to give a maximal bonus to EVERY pilot of that race. ALL amarr pilots will benefit from a damnation flying armor links. Gallente were for some reasoned assigned info links. So while boosting sensor strength and reducing chances of getting ECMed is cool, it certainly isn't as beneficial as say, 25% increase to resists. FURTHER MORE, only ONE gallente ship can really be considered ewar, the Arazu, which sensor damps. Sensor damping was recently nerfed. Caldari have TWO ewar ships, the BB and the scorpion. So I dunno, you tell me. Eos was overpowered? Sure. Whinewhinewhine, everyone else is overpowered.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Irrefutable » Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:09 am UTC

Just to set this straight

Gallente have 5 ships with EWAR bonuses:
Arazu
Lacheisis
Celestis
Maulus
Keres

Caldari have 6 ships with EWAR bonuses:
Scorpian
Rook
Falcon
Blackbird
Griffin
Kitsune

And Eos was massively overpowered as it outdpsed all other Fleet comand Ships despite being a Field Comandship, thus filling a role it shouldnt.

When they took away its dps it had a worse tank than other Fields and the worst warfare links
So they boosted its tank by giving it annother low and now their Warfare links are getting a boost
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Hawknc » Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:51 am UTC

See, I listened to that whole conversation in the channel and I still barely understand what you're talking about. You guys sound like me when I was a Star Wars fleet junkie.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Irrefutable » Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:34 pm UTC

I was arguing but i didnt realy know what for tbh

You wernt alone ;)
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:27 pm UTC

Not counting frigs, gallente have celestis lachesis and arazu. Not counting frigs, caldari have Scorpion Rook Falcon Blackbird.

I wasn't arguing balance, i wasn't arguing RP. We went over this. I was SAYING, not arguing, as believe it or not, people can discuss something without arguing it, that CCP seems to have not put a lot of thought into what link bonus they assigned gallente.

Amarr are mostly armor tankers, and such, get an armor tanking bonus.
Caldari are mostly shield tankers, and such, get a shield tanking bonus.
Minnies are primarily speeders, and such, get a speed tanking bonus.
Gallente are... drone using armor tankers with no special emphasis on ewar, and such... get an ewar bonus?
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Re: EVE Online

Postby mazzilliu » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:29 pm UTC

Each races fleet command ship is designed to give a maximal bonus to EVERY pilot of that race.

its sort of a misleading statement, as every person in the fleet within the correct boosted group gets the bonus, reguardless of race. if i had a fleet of (gallente)megathrons or (gallente, post ewar nerf)dominixes i would prefer the amarr command ship instead of the gallente. once you get into the nitty gritty mechanics of pvp and different fleet makeups and ship matchings, race becomes completely irrelevent.
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