EVE Online

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Angstrom
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Angstrom » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:49 pm UTC

Nice!
My character is 100% mining. I should have the mining barge skill by tonight.
I just hope I can play alongside college :?

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Izawwlgood
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:25 pm UTC

Fact: You can't. Your grades will suffer. Your girlfriend will leave you. Your dog will die. But you will have a big, shiny, sexy, faction fitted ship. So what else matters?

I'm central time, will probably be hopping on around 5-6ish, and put a few hours in this afternoon. I'm in the Jita area, so if you feel like heading over, the mining is mediocre, but so what, its empire. If you want, we can head up to where my corp HQ is, the torrinos region, which is about 15 jumps northwestish of Jita.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby ThomasS » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:33 pm UTC

Angstrom wrote:Nice!
My character is 100% mining. I should have the mining barge skill by tonight.
I just hope I can play alongside college :?


Of all the possible professions, ice mining just has to be the one of those most conducive to studying at the same time. Not that I really recommend it, studying deserves more consistent attention, but I can assure you that it has been done. Just make sure you trust the gang leader and his readiness to warp the gang fast if needed.

Actually, big fleet ops also tend to require reading material to pass the time. Set up a camp of 100 ships.. after half an hour of sitting in space a covops sneaks in and nobody is awake enough to catch it. Then half an hour later, maybe the other fc decides to jump in. If they do, the 100+ ships arriving give you a nice slide show display of various things blowing up. As old as eve is, I decided that I needed to wait till I had a faster computer before trying to be useful in fleet ops.

I'm on fairly intermittently these day, (other things going on, also I'm skilled for caps but see above about fleet ops) but might I suggest creating an xkcd channel?

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:44 pm UTC

ThomasS wrote:might I suggest creating an xkcd channel?


Magnifico! If this is not done when I get on this afternoon, i'm all over it. "xkcd" for all your eve related sarcastic hookups.

ThomasS, it wasn't your computer that sucked, its the server setup. I've come to the conclusion after numerous slide-show fleet battles that any combat with more then 30 or so people is going to make CCP's gear powered computer hiccup and die.

an hr of prepping and getting oriented, finally getting to the system, and getting gang warped, seeing a blob of 200-odd ships, seeing some lag, then being in station in an imicus, does not a fun time make.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby ThomasS » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:39 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
ThomasS wrote:might I suggest creating an xkcd channel?

ThomasS, it wasn't your computer that sucked, its the server setup. I've come to the conclusion after numerous slide-show fleet battles that any combat with more then 30 or so people is going to make CCP's gear powered computer hiccup and die.

an hr of prepping and getting oriented, finally getting to the system, and getting gang warped, seeing a blob of 200-odd ships, seeing some lag, then being in station in an imicus, does not a fun time make.


Some people were obviously able to get lock, send out drones, etc. One guy in my corp would run 4 clients fine on one beefy box. He was in the former category. I found the two clients at once was nominaly useable, but tended to lag just enough to make me frustrated.

I got to see my ship go, more or less, but there is no way I could have done anything. One poor corp mate had an older computer than mine and didn't even get to watch his ship go.

I'm not saying at all that it is just the client. When I'm missioning in a busy system and my fps is fine but modules are slow to turn on, I know that it is a server problem. But if I'm having fps issues, I assume that my client is falling behind its rendering duties.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby ThomasS » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:48 pm UTC

Ok, channel "xkcd" has been created. I left the permissions at default, but added you (Riame) to the op list, since it sounds like you are more active than I am.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Rook » Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:44 am UTC

Angstrom wrote:Nice!
My character is 100% mining. I should have the mining barge skill by tonight.
I just hope I can play alongside college :?

Izawwlgood wrote:Fact: You can't. Your grades will suffer. Your girlfriend will leave you. Your dog will die. But you will have a big, shiny, sexy, faction fitted ship. So what else matters?

I'm central time, will probably be hopping on around 5-6ish, and put a few hours in this afternoon. I'm in the Jita area, so if you feel like heading over, the mining is mediocre, but so what, its empire. If you want, we can head up to where my corp HQ is, the torrinos region, which is about 15 jumps northwestish of Jita.

This sounds... disturbingly true.

Oh well, at least I can console myself with this: if I go down, I'm taking everyone else down with me. Everyone on my course is in EVE :twisted:


Addendum: Goddamn you Jita, laggiest system in the known Universe. Which is half the reason I'm hanging out in Perimeter instead :)
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Midnight » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:23 am UTC

yeah well i'm on the other side of the center from Jita and i must say, lag is better than having absolutely nothing on the region's market.
uhhhh fuck.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby StarLite » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:27 pm UTC

0.1 and up scare the shit out of me :lol:

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:27 pm UTC

StarLite wrote:0.1 and up scare the shit out of me :lol:


Heh, you know, >.5 is also >.1.

Theres an xkcd channel, you should all join it so when in game if bored we can do stuff.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Token » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:03 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
StarLite wrote:0.1 and up scare the shit out of me :lol:


Heh, you know, >.5 is also >.1.

Theres an xkcd channel, you should all join it so when in game if bored we can do stuff.

Yeah, there's probably a reason he said >.1 rather than, say, <.5.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:37 pm UTC

Honestly? I can stand lowsec, sometimes. If I stick to the dead pipes. Closing my eyes helps too.

High sec scares the hell out of me. I pay other people to shop there if I must, or use a rigged hauler alt of speed and win. Mostly run, though.

Oh, and hi.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:34 pm UTC

One of these days i'm going to try and set up a corp and vy for NAP agreements with major alliances to supply goods to their outposts. Or set up an alliance that does just that.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Angstrom » Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:52 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:One of these days i'm going to try and set up a corp and vy for NAP agreements with major alliances to supply goods to their outposts. Or set up an alliance that does just that.


I'd join :D

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Alasseo
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:04 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:One of these days i'm going to try and set up a corp and vy for NAP agreements with major alliances to supply goods to their outposts. Or set up an alliance that does just that.


You mean like ISS? Or are we steering away from the failboat?

I'd join as security, tbh.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby ThomasS » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:03 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:One of these days i'm going to try and set up a corp and vy for NAP agreements with major alliances to supply goods to their outposts. Or set up an alliance that does just that.


The basic problem is that haulers are fair game when it comes to alliances trying to make each others lives difficult. The net result is that the politics of that become difficult. Back when ISS had multiple outposts I was there, and remember that some major alliance, probably Bob, was hostile to ISS in the north but blue in the south. Then of course they gave ISS another outpost in the north, which demonstrates the chaos of the politics that you'd have to survive against.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:19 pm UTC

It wouldn't be hard to get scouts out to various regions and do price checks, and then offer a representative of the alliance deals in accordance with those prices. Of course, most alliances just fly a hauler alt to Jita and lug stuff to the fringe.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:22 pm UTC

ThomasS wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:One of these days i'm going to try and set up a corp and vy for NAP agreements with major alliances to supply goods to their outposts. Or set up an alliance that does just that.


The basic problem is that haulers are fair game when it comes to alliances trying to make each others lives difficult. The net result is that the politics of that become difficult. Back when ISS had multiple outposts I was there, and remember that some major alliance, probably Bob, was hostile to ISS in the north but blue in the south. Then of course they gave ISS another outpost in the north, which demonstrates the chaos of the politics that you'd have to survive against.


honestly, the basic problem is that any alliance that is large enough to make use of an outside contractor can do it internally (and never would have gotten where they did without internal logistics), anyone who doesn't have the internal logistics is too small to bother, and everyone is paranoid and will assume you will sell information about their POS and movements anyways. :p

Oh, and internal logistics is cheaper than external, because people incorporate the costs as part of normal ops.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:27 pm UTC

Anyone ever hear of Sanctuary? They supply one or two major alliances, about 5 bil worth of gear goes through them weekly, and it takes about 40 dedicated builders working around the clock, at severe diminished value, to do so.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby ThomasS » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:09 pm UTC

Alasseo wrote:honestly, the basic problem is that any alliance that is large enough to make use of an outside contractor can do it internally (and never would have gotten where they did without internal logistics), anyone who doesn't have the internal logistics is too small to bother, and everyone is paranoid and will assume you will sell information about their POS and movements anyways. :p

Oh, and internal logistics is cheaper than external, because people incorporate the costs as part of normal ops.


I guess it depends on what supplying means. Hauling/building in empire and contracting regular larger orders over to them at their chosen border systems is basically outsourcing their empire logistics. They probably get some convenience and slight savings while the supplier basically gets a regular empire trade route.

On the other hand, bringing an actual convoy out to an outpost, and putting stuff up on their market, tying up your inventory waiting for it to sell.. that takes bigger cajones, and would make it harder to stay neutral.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:17 pm UTC

You mean like putting competitive buy orders during a hostile takeover? You can make bank doing so.
I've bought domi's at 40mil a piece, and conversely, been forced to buy a helios at about 25 mil.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:04 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:You mean like putting competitive buy orders during a hostile takeover? You can make bank doing so.
I've bought domi's at 40mil a piece, and conversely, been forced to buy a helios at about 25 mil.


No, we were talking about arranged logistics operations. Outsourcing, really.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:12 am UTC

Well, you have to remember that most outposts (aside from the Tortuga's) simply deny you docking rights. So how do you propose you get your goods in?

Build by Jita and sell to the fringes would require a lot of shleping. Thats why I proposed a contract deal, but even thats likely bound to fail (why are they going to pay me higher then Jita prices when they can just throw a hauling alt down Jita's way?)
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:14 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Well, you have to remember that most outposts (aside from the Tortuga's) simply deny you docking rights. So how do you propose you get your goods in?

Build by Jita and sell to the fringes would require a lot of shleping. Thats why I proposed a contract deal, but even thats likely bound to fail (why are they going to pay me higher then Jita prices when they can just throw a hauling alt down Jita's way?)


That's what I said too, a little ways up. I remember the fall of the Big Blue, ISS, and ASCN quite well. I know it won't work, I was just telling you what they were proposing.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Rook » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:55 pm UTC

Question: what's up with the materials needed to build a battleship costing more than a pre-built battleship? Specifically, if you were to try and buy all the minerals needed to manufacture a Rokh, you would be paying out about 4.5 times as much as you would for a new one. Basically, WTF? I was given to understand that this tends not to be how economy works, that making something yourself (for reals) is cheaper than buying new, because everyone involved in the process of making a thing puts a little markup on whatever passes through their hands.

I assume it's mostly fluctuating market prices, but come on. 450% of 250M ISK(?) is a helluva lot.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Token » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:16 am UTC

Rook wrote:Question: what's up with the materials needed to build a battleship costing more than a pre-built battleship? Specifically, if you were to try and buy all the minerals needed to manufacture a Rokh, you would be paying out about 4.5 times as much as you would for a new one. Basically, WTF? I was given to understand that this tends not to be how economy works, that making something yourself (for reals) is cheaper than buying new, because everyone involved in the process of making a thing puts a little markup on whatever passes through their hands.

I assume it's mostly fluctuating market prices, but come on. 450% of 250M ISK(?) is a helluva lot.

Where are you getting those figures?

I can buy a 5 run Rokh BPC with ME 23 for 5 million on contracts (this was the first one I looked at on the list). With PE trained to 5, I could buy all the minerals required to build it for 124.4 million. Rokhs sell in this region for about 130 million. That's a 3.6% profit, which isn't amazing, but it's nothing like the ridiculous loss you are suggesting.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:23 am UTC

Jita prices are also the lowest in game, while the minerals tend to be inflated. If you build a battleship with mins mined further from Jita and sell ti out there, you can probably sell for around 160M

Also, don't sell in Jita unless your just trying to offload goods. Its a guarantee low-price, quick-sell.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:02 pm UTC

Rook wrote:Question: what's up with the materials needed to build a battleship costing more than a pre-built battleship? Specifically, if you were to try and buy all the minerals needed to manufacture a Rokh, you would be paying out about 4.5 times as much as you would for a new one. Basically, WTF? I was given to understand that this tends not to be how economy works, that making something yourself (for reals) is cheaper than buying new, because everyone involved in the process of making a thing puts a little markup on whatever passes through their hands.

I assume it's mostly fluctuating market prices, but come on. 450% of 250M ISK(?) is a helluva lot.


Stop trying to buy minerals in Derelik?
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:15 pm UTC

I have a super fun idea for a corp, xkcd only if need be.

Everyone make a combat alt. Straight out of the box you can be a pretty solid kestrel pilot. With a week training you can be a dangerously solid destroyer pilot. If 5 of us get together, we can fly around empire ganking macro miners.

Whenever our sec rating gets to low to effectively move around empire, we either move to lower sec areas, or eventually just scrap the character and create a new one.
An easy strategy for cheating concord is you do something illegal far away from your actual target, and as soon as concord comes, you warp away, then back to your intended target. Now concord is stuck 100's of km out, and you can do what you will to your hapless and likely absent hulk pilot.

Lets do our part to rid the galaxy of macro-ers!
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Angstrom » Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:53 pm UTC

That's what I call doing our part for the economy :wink:

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:35 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I have a super fun idea for a corp, xkcd only if need be.

Everyone make a combat alt. Straight out of the box you can be a pretty solid kestrel pilot. With a week training you can be a dangerously solid destroyer pilot. If 5 of us get together, we can fly around empire ganking macro miners.

Whenever our sec rating gets to low to effectively move around empire, we either move to lower sec areas, or eventually just scrap the character and create a new one.
An easy strategy for cheating concord is you do something illegal far away from your actual target, and as soon as concord comes, you warp away, then back to your intended target. Now concord is stuck 100's of km out, and you can do what you will to your hapless and likely absent hulk pilot.

Lets do our part to rid the galaxy of macro-ers!


I'd like to see you try that. Concord has been fixed. :)
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:27 pm UTC

.... oh? how? when?
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:34 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:.... oh? how? when?


As far as I'm aware, a good, long time ago. I know this personally in that I (being used to 0.0) shot a can of a gangmember in highsec to clear up the area while doing a concord plex in .5 space and concord was there and scrammed me instantly (not to mention the lag!).
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Rook » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:06 pm UTC

I'd join that corp. Sounds like a helluva lot of fun :twisted:

I assume this is like moral piracy? As in, only ice people with questionable business ethics? (or who we just don't like, but yeah)


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Re: EVE Online

Postby Quadropus » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:35 pm UTC

Wow, whilst playing the trial this morning, I managed to loose all of my ships in the same place.

1) Trying to do a mission
2) Trying to salvage all the decent stuff from said ship
3) Trying to salvage all the decent stuff from said ships

I got very annoyed when my second got destroyed, as I had just bought it and added a load of decent modules onto it.
I turned my computer off at the wall because it pissed me off.

Now I am probably going to stop playing, though I do have enough ISK to buy another ship and some modules...
I'll give it an hour or so, so I don't put my fist through my computer screen....

Also, how would I go about joining this xkcd corp? I'm intrigued....
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:16 am UTC

There isn't an xkcd corp, but there is an xkcd channel.

You should never lose ships while running missions, as you can always warp away if the mission turns sour.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:09 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:There isn't an xkcd corp, but there is an xkcd channel.

You should never lose ships while running missions, as you can always warp away if the mission turns sour.


There are most defiantly warp scramming frigs.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:21 am UTC

On lvl 1 missions?
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:18 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:On lvl 1 missions?


..right. I'll go away, now.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby ThomasS » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:58 pm UTC

Quadropus wrote:1) Trying to do a mission
2) Trying to salvage all the decent stuff from said ship
3) Trying to salvage all the decent stuff from said ships


On a level 1 mission, you can pretty much always warp out, so long as you aren't bumping into things. In a frigate this should happen fairly quickly, but not quite instantly.

Regarding combat and survival - in case you don't know this - when starting out, range and speed are everything. Fit long range small weapons, fit middle of the road ammo, and then check what your overall optimal range is (right click the gun in space -> properties). Sometimes you want to orbit at that range, and sometimes, especially against a group, you want to fly away from them and control your speed so that the nearest stays at that optimal range. You can adjust your overview settings so that you can see how fast they move.

Finally, don't be afraid to ask for help in game. Your npc starter corp chat and system local channels are normally the best places to ask. If you ask in xkcd channel and I am on and you are in the galente region, I might be able to swing by. There is also a channel "lvl 4" which has become a good general resource about missions.


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