Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Jebobek » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:18 pm UTC

Regarding the less-common household sledgehammer, would you consider that more "Getting a New Life" and "Long-Term Survival" than the "Early Outbreak"?

I think that during "Getting a New Life" and "Long-Term Survival" you've got to be crazy not to have one in your porta-base.

Considering the Early Outbreak, its situational. Lets say you've got 5-10 people running around with you during the Early Outbreak grabbing all the weapons they can find in their neighborhood. You've got tons of baseball bats, but someone finds a sledgehammer. Is it worth it to give it to someone? The weight will kill the runspeed pretty quick, but it might be useful for making sure downed zombies near your temporary safehouse never get back up. If you're using the "get the hell out of the city" plan I'd say nix the sledgehammer.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:28 pm UTC

I'd say that anything in the six month and later plans should already assume that you have the weaponry needed to keep you alive.. as, after all, you've made it to six months. So, while grabbing baseball bats out of the garage would be an immediate plan, getting a nice sledgehammer or iron pipe would be in the first month or two.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby sophyturtle » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:09 pm UTC

oooo, iron pipe...I forgot and now I wish I had more piping bits around the house.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby ArchangelShrike » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:40 pm UTC

Each time frame should have the items from all previous time frames. It's not an exhaustive list, but a bare minimum on what you'd possibly need to get by.

"Early Outbreak"
-One blunt, large, hard instrument up to a meter long of singular construction, preferably light (Baseball Bats, Crowbars, Metal Pipes, etc)
-Firearms (Depending on skill level)
-Survival Knife/Blade
-Camping/Survival Supplies (Canned Food, Water Purification System, First Aid, Firestarters, Maps)
-Caffeine/"Awake" Drugs
-Light Source
-Good Shoes/Clothes

"Getting A New Life"
-Means of transportation for goods (Wheelbarrows, carts, sleds - something to haul your supplies with)
-Multipurpose tools (Sledgegammer, Crowbar, Chainsaws, Axes)
-Building Supplies (At least tents -> Shanties, Shacks)
-Energy Storage (Oil/Gas/Wood)
-Rope
-Duct Tape & Bonding Materials
-Long Term Food Production Means (Seeds, Fertilizers, Rods & Nets, Baby Animals)
-Survival Manuals (Not everyone knows how to tie knots, or what plants to eat/avoid, etc)
-Communication Equipment (Crank Powered Radio/Flashlights)

"Long Term Survival"
Anything you think you'd need to start a new life.

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Phrozt » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:43 pm UTC

As I mentioned in my Zombies Survival Plan (in sig), the first weapon I'd grab from those actually available to me are the butts of my pool sticks. They're perfect, IMO. They are short and light enough to carry one in each hand, which would effectively "extend" my reach, allowing me to deal with threats by keeping them further away from my body. They're also probably short enough that I'm not going to have to worry about them breaking due to inertial forces exerted on ends of bats and whatnot.

It would be a lot harder to actually kill a zombie w/them though, as they do not deliver the force of a bat.

Also, mine are vikings, so they're very well made, and not some cheapy house cue PoS.

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Susy » Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:00 pm UTC

Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel wrote:Thank you! Paragraphs are what I intend . . . but I usually have a whole lot of quotes which cut up the paragraphs. Also, I like having a line between paragraphs, it makes them easily definable.

Cricket bats are very irregularly shaped. You might do beter finding yourself a baseball bat. They are both wooden (although, I have seen some metal baseball bats) and around the same size (the cricket bat is most likely larger, but that adds to the weight) so they would be around the same leval of effectiveness. If I had the choice between the two, I would have the baseball bat.

You have my reasoning. People will either be feeding the mobs, hiding in their homes, looting things, trying to get the police to help, trying to fight the mob of zombies all by themselves, running away or doing something stupid like running around in circles panicking. Also, a few people might be spending their last night on earth as a living human being fornicating 'till they can fornicate no more.

Ah, the "suicide at last stand" method of fighting. This is where you don't need to know how to clean your gun or even how to fix a jam. All you need to know is how to fire the gun, and how to pull the pin out of your grenade when you run out of ammo!


Are you sure only a "few" people will be fornicating?? I like to imagine I could do both (not simultaneously) but if I had a hot zombie hunter partner...I would definitely find the time to do him.

And this poster http://www.ex-robot.com/archives/design/000015.html makes a clear statement on how important is tauting the zombie. Which is a thing we have not discussed here.

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby thecommabandit » Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:17 pm UTC

I just watched that Survivors drama the BBC are doing right now. The initial conditions are different (rather than zombification, it's a AIDS-like virus transmitted like flu, with similar symptoms, but also showing Black Death type symptoms) but the point I'm making is just as important: a few weeks after Early Outbreak, the bodies will start rotting. Diphtheria and typhoid are problems. Big ones.

Though I spotted several problems in the characters' logic, such as getting into a hospital by driving a car through the glass automatic doors. It's a waste of fuel. No building in existence has only automatic doors. There is bound to be a service or maintenance entrance somewhere round the back. Or you could just get something heavy and break the door. Either works.

But this one guy, Greg, was seriously well prepared. He had a big jeep, with stacks of petrol containers in the back and was looting camping shops and was trying to get away from the city because of diseases and had tea (an essential - always gives you a lift). This guy knows what he's doing.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Mo0man » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:24 pm UTC

Did he have a towel?
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:53 pm UTC

Phrozt wrote:You missed my point. I asked how everyone would have a cache of military grade armaments AVAILABLE to them. You people are talking like if Zday hits, the matrix armory shelves are going to rush in around you and you can pick wtf ever you want to play with. If we're taking the zombie scenario "seriously" that's never going to happen.

Well, people are more thinking that "we will go to the gun shop and loot it after everyone is dead from running around screaming" . . . or at least that's what I think.

Becuase I doubt zombies are going to wait for us to get set up, get all our safety gear on, line the target up and hold still so we can shoot their head off. We're talking about a zombie apocalypse. As far as optics, I was wondering why the hell anyone would put one on a shotgun. So they can get an instant black eye?? I mean seriously.

Yeah, I agree with the idea of not putting a scope on a shotgun. If you can see further on through the sights than you can see, then the sights are stupid.

That's why I like a 22. Barely any kick at all, so it shouldn't scare anyone... and it's easy as hell to work with.

And the fact that they don't have much of a kick to them indicates that they most likely don't do the damage that someone .50 would do.

Same issue with golf clubs or many things that seem like a good idea. You have to think of how easy it is to break. If a base ball can break a baseball bat, maybe you will want a more sturdy zombie hitting stick. I am not familiar with cricket bats, maybe they are harder to break?

What about a hollow chrome rod? It's light, strong and easy to carry around. (I just found my one that was once an expensive golf club, but both ends came off so I taped up the ends and used it as a walking stick)

As far as cricket bats go, after looking at images of them, assuming they were solid wood I would assume the stress point would be right where the handle connects to the head, as you've basically got a big thick piece that immediately becomes a thin piece. If there's a metal rod in there, that would help matters but would still likely bend.

I myself have broken cricket bats. Although I was 11 at the time and I did hit it on concrete . . . but that's beside the point. There is no metal rod in the middle (as far as I am aware).

getting a nice sledgehammer or iron pipe would be in the first month or two.

You reminded me that I was once in the metal tech room at high school, and I was planing what would happen in case of a zombie attack. There were hammers and metal poles everywhere! I bet that I could find a nice pile or pipe that I could saw down to the right size. I think my dad might have a sledge hammer in his tool shed, as well as a nasty looking tool that's used for cutting down tree branches. (It has a long wooden handle, the metal head of it is almost razor sharp, it has a curved head, its truely evil looking) One of the places that I would want to go to just after the initial outbreak is up to my dads place. The only problem is that it's full of swords and knives (well, they are his flat-mate owns the blades, but I would still probably be able to use them if I asked nicely and didn't look like I was going to bite) he also has a shitload of tools and the knowledge to use them, fix cars, grow food, make boilers for heating (because he used to make them for a power plant) . . . so as long as my dad stops being an asshole, then he can survive the zombie apocalypse with my group. If not, he can sit all by himself in the middle of nowhere growing vegetables and being lonely!

Are you sure only a "few" people will be fornicating?? I like to imagine I could do both (not simultaneously) but if I had a hot zombie hunter partner...I would definitely find the time to do him.

Not simultaneously? Damn :( . . . nothing hotter than sex and women with big guns! :wink:

Did he have a towel?

What movie is that from? I think if me and Susy ever meet up after Z-day, we might need a towel :wink: :mrgreen:

What do people think of the attacked zombie survival kit?
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Torvaun » Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:11 pm UTC

How many people do you think can loot a gun store before it's all looted out? And you think you can count on having the chance to pick and choose? Certainly not if you're waiting long enough for panic. And if you're not, then you're going to go try to rob the gun store and get shot by the owner. And if neither of these are true, you're going to be in the middle of the panicked crowd, and you'll be lucky to get out alive, let alone with guns.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Upsilon » Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:35 pm UTC

You should get your guns before Z-day occurs. That leaves you time to practice with them at least a little. Plus, you don't have to risk your life by going out in the streets.

Another thing you should plan on is other survivors being hostile. If you have plenty of food and ammo, someone else is going to want it.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby EdgarJPublius » Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:35 pm UTC

Phrozt wrote:You missed my point. I asked how everyone would have a cache of military grade armaments AVAILABLE to them. You people are talking like if Zday hits, the matrix armory shelves are going to rush in around you and you can pick wtf ever you want to play with. If we're taking the zombie scenario "seriously" that's never going to happen.


Bought/borrowed/stole before/suring the advent of the apocalypse isn't good enough for you?

Becuase I doubt zombies are going to wait for us to get set up, get all our safety gear on, line the target up and hold still so we can shoot their head off. We're talking about a zombie apocalypse. As far as optics, I was wondering why the hell anyone would put one on a shotgun. So they can get an instant black eye?? I mean seriously.

1. Science! it Works, it doesn't matter if you can shoot a shambling zombie at 100yds with any given gun, I'm just saying that out to that range, untrained individuals will be able to hit roughly the same target regardless of whether they're shooting a rifle, shotgun or SMG.
2. Police snipers used to do it before ARs became popular, a shotgun slug maintains it's energy over quite a distance and an optic, even a non-magnifying optic (such as most red-dot sights) can be much easier to aim through than ironsights.
If you think you'll get a black eye from shooting a shotgun with a scope on it you should probably stop talking like you know anything about guns and get back to playing lol counterstrike.

If I have taped banana clips (which I honestly do.... in reality
after the shotgun optic black eye comment I doubt you've ever fired a weapon with a shoulder stock in your life.
, I can shoot 60 shots by reloading only once. In that time, you'll have reloaded 10 times and used up 10 of your "clips." Even if you could reload your revolver faster w/a speed loader than I could take a clip out, flip it over, and push it back in (which I HIGHLY doubt), I'll still take my one reload to your 10. And if we BOTH go through 300 rounds and we still need a lot of firepower? We have bigger things to worry about than silly squabbles.

um, why are you comparing rifles to pistols? You can't tape pistol clips together and you can't fit 60 rounds in two pistol magazines.
We'll both start with rifles, but when we're out of rifle ammo, I'd rather have a trusty revolver than a semi-automatic handgun.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby thecommabandit » Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:45 pm UTC

Y'know, this seems to have turned from "Taking it seriously: The zombie problem" to "My gun is better than your gun: blahblahblah".

On topic-ness is next godliness.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Upsilon » Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:47 pm UTC

Thread split, maybe?
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel » Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:33 am UTC

Splitting it to what? "Zombie hunting weapons" and "taking it seriously: the zombie problem" ?

My dad dragged my to his car today to "teach me to use the clutch" (I own an automatic and have no wish to ever use a manual unless I truely, honestly need to) . . . after a lot of yelling . . . and a lot of time spent yelling . . . and then even more yelling . . . we got out into the old back roads in the country. You know, gravel roads, back roads, roads not used much anymore and I had a look around while he was yelling. There are a lot of farms that look like they would never be effected by the zombie apocalypse (accept maybe when they go to town to get more food and get bitten by hungry zombies looking for their own food) . . . they most likely would have a shotgun and a rifle in most houses. (Farmers usually have guns) . . . I bet a fair amount would be abandoned on or just after Z-day. If you stumble onto a farm that's occupied, just tell them that you were looking for your friend who txted/called you and said his place was the 23rd on the left (or something like that) and just walk on (unless you have a car, then you drive on) (The reason I you shouldn't stop is because you might get all your stuff stolen and get shot while you sleep) . . . just move on and find an abandoned house. Search it top to bottom. Make sure that you have searched every inch of the house. Take all the weapons you can find. Barricade the windows and doors on the first floor. Most of the houses have large, second story windows that lead out onto the roof. It might be a good idea to have someone with a rifle and binoculars to stand guard on the roof. Have atleast two of your people stay in that house while you search the other houses on the road. In the other houses, either consider if it's a better house or search it for all the weapons, tools, anything useful. Gather together all the vehicles you can find. It would be a very good idea to find a house with those old fashioned fuel tanks. They would be immensely useful. Once you find your perfect house and have barricaded it up properly, make more walls, dig trenches, clear bushes and unwanted trees. Make it so that you can defend it from outside the house rather than just from the house. Then get all the gates and/or corrugated iron you can find and reinforce your fences. It would be great to have dear fences (because they are realy high and I know a place that has them, only problem is that its vulnerable from behind. Any zombie could just walk up the hill behind it and drop into the house area). Once you know the area is secure and people are well rested, start gathering together survivors. Make it more defensible. It might be a good idea to have a house on top of a hill, you would have a great view of zombies everywhere. Start to farm the land (if you know how) because you will run out of food if you don't.

Can anyone improve on that? Because if you can, please do! :mrgreen:

I just found one of the coolest (yet non-functional) weapons ever! The sniper crowbar! How awesomely stupid is that?!?!?!
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Upsilon » Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:37 am UTC

Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel wrote:Splitting it to what? "Zombie hunting weapons" and "taking it seriously: the zombie problem" ?

I dunno, "Post Yo' Gun" maybe?
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:49 am UTC

thecommabandit wrote:Y'know, this seems to have turned from "Taking it seriously: The zombie problem" to "My gun is better than your gun: blahblahblah".

On topic-ness is next godliness.


Who's talking about their gun?
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Durinthal » Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:55 am UTC

So at the "Getting a New Life" stage should we be looking for places to resettle yet? Or does that get postponed until the long-term stage?

I was wondering about pre-designating locations to flock to in order to restart civilization; initially at a regional level and then possibly world-wide, depending on numbers of survivors and availability of transportation. What I thought of at the global level was Iceland. They have excellent geothermal resources which can be used for heating and electricity, as well as the aforementioned advantages of living on an island.

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel » Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:00 am UTC

Upsilon wrote:
Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel wrote:Splitting it to what? "Zombie hunting weapons" and "taking it seriously: the zombie problem" ?

I dunno, "Post Yo' Gun" maybe?

Taking it seriously: anti-zombie weaponry?

What vehicles would be a good idea to have when Z-day hits? (purchased before or stolen after) Something big and heavy would be bad because it uses up a lot of fuel, but something small and light would be bad because it would be easily dented. Since buying fuel wouldn't be a problem, only getting it out of the tanks; would the fuel thing matter? Would you need something that can hit zombie after zombie after zombie and come out on top? Or would you need something that would let you avoid zombies easily?

One of my mums friends has a cannon, would that be useful? (He built it himself!) He is planing on selling it, but lets assume that he still has it when its Z-day. (Because lets face it, Z-day could be next week! Or even this week!) So, does cannon = bad or cannon = good?

How difficult would it be to move those huge metal shipping containers from a train to use to block off a street? Could you use lots of cars tipped over/sideways to block off a street successfully? What other ways are there for blocking off streets?

Would standing on top of a house be better than sitting in a tree-house when doing reconnaissance/scouting?

Is there a safe way to get between rooftops of houses?

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Phrozt » Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:20 am UTC

You're both still missing the point. Looting, buying... whatever... You're talking about military grade armaments. Where the hell do you expect to get these?? Looting or otherwise, those guns are NOT available to the regular populace!!

So why not think of guns that are practical and available in todays society?

And FotFA, there's no reason to use a .50 cal. A .22 will do lethal damage to the face. A .50 is going to cause undue stress on the body from just a few shots. I'm not trying to argue that .22s are the best guns in the world with the greatest stopping power... I'm trying to be practical about the scenario of a zombie invasion.

Finally... stop with the scoped shotguns. That's just stupid. Don't believe me? Read this: http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/f/shgunriflescope.htm

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby kinigget » Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:15 am UTC

Upsilon wrote:
Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel wrote:Splitting it to what? "Zombie hunting weapons" and "taking it seriously: the zombie problem" ?

I dunno, "Post Yo' Gun" maybe?

well, we did have "post yo' arsenal at one point. But that thread was largely filled with swords and knives, very few guns, so it might be feasible.

and I have nothing whatsoever to add to the Great Weapon debate, the only gun I ever used was a bb gun at the fair, which made me realize just how hard it is to be accurate, at least with a bb gun.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby wst » Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:05 pm UTC

Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel wrote:
That's why I like a 22. Barely any kick at all, so it shouldn't scare anyone... and it's easy as hell to work with.
And the fact that they don't have much of a kick to them indicates that they most likely don't do the damage that someone .50 would do.
Stop. Right. There.
You can't have ever fired a rifle if you're expecting to just go and loot a .50 from a shop.
One does not simply pick up such a rifle and fire it. You would need training and some other little bits of knowledge, and these both invalidate your idea of a .50 as a zombie weapon.

1) They are fucking huge. You are not going to shoot something miles away, you're going to shoot that zombie that is at most 50 yards away. Worse, if they get indoors, you've got no chance of swinging it around in a confined space, shouldering it, and firing without your head becoming puree on the metal radiator behind you, or wrecking the rifle.

2) Even if you get a situation where you need to fire at something a long way away, you're going to miss. You do not have the training or the knowledge, gained from experience, to fire 4 inch groups at 500 yards. I have training, experience, and a wind coach with fuckloads of experience, and flags to inform him of the wind downrange, and cannot shoot consistent 1 foot groups at 500 yards. You have none of the advantages, and all of the disadvantages.

3) You are not going to enjoy the recoil. Having fired .308's for 4 days, only doing an actual 27 shots per day, I had bruises like no-one's business. My teammates had bruises, even though they had more experience firing those than I did. You are going to reach a stage of utter terror - don't fire and get ripped open, or fire, and injure yourself. The bruises will hurt a lot when a few kJ hits them. Even if you do manage to fire, you will flinch. It took over a week of firing .308s to get over the flinch. In a zombie dystopia, you don't have a week.

Stick to .22 if you're having a Zdystopia. The ammunition is a lot lighter to carry, you don't get bruises from firing, the rifles are lighter, and you're not going to need extreme range or power. You just need enough to poke a small amount of lead through the right part of the CNS to make said CNS become yoghurt.

Okay, away from PYG stuff.

Zombie Vehicles-
Sacrifice luxury. There aren't any garages around that will be able to service the air con or the electric windows. Sunroofs may provide a simple watchpost when parked in tall grass (in suitable vehicle).
You'll want a large fuel tank. Economy would be helped by the lightening of the vehicle, but don't skimp on fuel. Lots of fuel. Also helps for arson, should you get the opportunity. Expect petrol tankers to be fought after, though if you can wrest control of one, you have an almost limitless fuel supply/an m'fer of a bomb. Just don't expect driving it to be easy. If the Zdystopia degrades to a level where humans are worse than zombies (ie. They want to fuck you up more), you might want to consider disposing of it and travelling on foot. Also, bear in mind that weapons fire near to petrol tankers is a baaaad idea. At best you'll hole it, making a leak of gallons of volatile fuel and creating toxic fumes. At worst, who knows? (See Bomb)
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel » Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:14 pm UTC

I wasn't suggesting that .50 would be the greatest calibre to use. I was just saying that it would have more stopping power and most likely more range. .22 would be the smallest calibre anyone would ever use. Anything smaller just wouldn't do enough damage. .50 would be the largest you could possibly ever use/get. Anything bigger is technically a cannon. Given the choice between the cannon and the pea shooter, I would pick the cannon.

Ok, the larger gun would give me bruises. The smaller one might not kill the zombie. I would much rather know that I practically decapitated/blow off half the zombies skull than think I might have pit a small hole in it.

Some calibre in the middle would be perfect. You want a gun that will be light, easy to use, have a common ammo, blah blah blah. I'm not saying use .50, I'm saying use something that will undoubtedly destroy the zombies brain. I just said .50 because it's the biggest common (not to common, but common enough that most people who know guns, know it) calibre. It would undoubtedly kill the zombie.

Also, I wouldn't take a rifle like that as an indoors weapon. It would be a sniping weapon, hence the reason that it's used in [some] sniper rifles. Indoors weapons would be handguns, shotguns and possibly sub-machine guns.

Again, you know that a 12gauge shotgun will kill the zombie if you shoot it in the head. You know that if your gun practically destroys the zombies head, that the zombie is gone for good. (Assuming virus zombie or other zombie that requires it's brain to be damaged to stop functioning) Dropping a sledge hammer on a zombies head will likely destroy it. Strapping it down and cutting off its head with a bone-saw will likely kill it. (assuming you have the time to tie it down) You see, I'm the kind of person who wants to know that the zombie isn't coming back!

I think the reason that people like the military grade guns is because they see less farmers with their .22's shooting up places than you see terrorists shooting up places with AK-47's! People who don't know that much about guns, will most likely know more about assault rifles than they will hunting rifles! (Them seeing this would be on TV and in video games, not so much in real life)

Also, I ment to say "something" not "someone" in that quote that you quoted. I just noticed it now.

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby wst » Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:17 pm UTC

You won't ever snipe in a zompocalypse. And a .22 is absolutely powerful enough. Anything more, while great for long range killing, and great fun, is worse because of weight/ammunition. (400 rounds of 155 grain .308 Winchesters weigh a lot. Bear in mind that ammo is limited and you'll want all the shots you can take, and won't be expecting to get more ammunition in the foreseeable future)
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Upsilon » Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:25 pm UTC

If a zombie is at a range where you have to snipe it to kill it, you should just leave it alone. It certainly won't see you.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:28 pm UTC

Phrozt wrote:You're both still missing the point. Looting, buying... whatever... You're talking about military grade armaments. Where the hell do you expect to get these?? Looting or otherwise, those guns are NOT available to the regular populace!!

So why not think of guns that are practical and available in todays society?

AR-15s are just civilian M-16s, in fact, most AR's have a civilian semi-auto counterpart that can be bought for $500-$1,500 in any 'free' country (free wrt to firearms anyway)
the PS-90 is a civilian variant of the P-90 with a longer barrel (as civilian weapons with shoulder stocks are limited to no less than a 20in barrel in the states) many other SMGs have similar civilian variants as well.

Pretty much all of these can be converted to full auto fire with minimal modification (a paperclip in some cases)
And in most states at least, there's no restriction on owning other 'military' weapons such as M-14's which aren't short barreled or fully automatic.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel » Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:02 am UTC

wst wrote:You won't ever snipe in a zompocalypse. And a .22 is absolutely powerful enough. Anything more, while great for long range killing, and great fun, is worse because of weight/ammunition. (400 rounds of 155 grain .308 Winchesters weigh a lot. Bear in mind that ammo is limited and you'll want all the shots you can take, and won't be expecting to get more ammunition in the foreseeable future)

Ok, say you have the .22 and the .50 with lots of ammo for both. You run out of the .22. All you have left is the .50. Do you use it or look for more .22? One of my plans involves me being just up the street from the gun shop, in a clock tower. The clock tower would be great for sniping from. You could use .22 for all the close zombies, but when they are all dead, I would have to move out of the clock tower to reach the zombies that are further away . . . or I could use .50 . . . (assuming that I learn to fire a gun accurately in the time before Z-day or after Z-day when I have someone who knows how to shoot teaches me) . . . Now I have a tower, a sniper rifle, other people for guard duty . . . If you want to see the layout of Stratford (in New Zealand) then just use google maps (I have dial up, other wise I would have looked it up myself and sent you the picture)

You see, if you have both guns, lots of ammo for both guns and you don't have to carry them around with you all the time, then I see no need to chose between the two when you can have both!

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby ArchangelShrike » Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:59 am UTC

The argument as I see it between the .22 and the .50 is non-broken arms vs. broken arms. Would I risk my arms trying to use a weapon I'm not trained in to snipe out zombies good distances away that would probably be attracted to the sound of my gunshot in a relatively quiet area (assuming you don't find a .50 until later on) or would I sneak around and look for ammunition for a weapon I can safely use? Why risk your method of eating, building, fighting, escaping only to use a .50 when you're not trained with it? Even if I had both available to me, or every type of firearm and as much ammo as I can carry, I don't think I'd ever choose a .50 due to it's drawbacks. We're not piercing tank armor, or concrete walls, only rotting flesh and bone. And finding ammo for a .50 is likely to be a bit hard to find if you need to go on the run.

When it hits the fan, do you want:
a.) a weapon that that can potentially cause tremendous damage to yourself when using with a slow rate of fire and limited ammunition but can destroy multiple zombies at once,
b.) a weapon with a low possibility of hurting you when used properly, a higher rate of fire and plentiful ammunition but can destroy a single zombie at a time?

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel » Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:58 am UTC

Why would it have ever been created if it damaged the person who fires it so much that it outweighs the actual benefits of using it?

Question: has anyone here ever fired any gun that is .50?

I'm not saying that .50 is the best, but it does have a hell of a lot more stopping power and range than .22. What about .308? (or whatever it was that was something like that) Ok, less common than .22, more common than .50. Higher stopping power than .22, less stopping power than .50. Heavier ammo than .22, lighter ammo than .50. (from what I gather)

Its like this, you find a gun. Any gun. You know the basics of how to use it. Its a high calibre gun. You have no other weapon. You are more likely to use it than leave it where you found it. Now you're walking down the road and you see a zombie up ahead on the road. Its a straight road. It has high fences on each side and you need to get to the end of the road. There is no way past the zombie without fighting it. You have your .50 sniper rifle. Do you A: try to smash the zombie with the but of the rifle? B: Shoot the zombie in the head with the rifle? C: do nothing and die because the zombie noticed you and is gnawing on your arm because you didn't try to shoot it?

Has anyone considered using dirt-bike armour as protection? It's full body, if you include the helmet. it's strong. If its a bright colour like red, you can just paint it black or something. It's light enough to wear and walk around in easily. You can wear a jacket or something over it if you need to.

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Lolsaur » Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:08 am UTC

I think what everyone is getting at with the .50 guns is that, if not properly trained, a person can seriously injure themselves using it. I'm sure a trained professional with many hours of practice with said gun would be able to sue it well, without injuring themselves.

It's the same with a chainsaw or even an axe - if a person is not trained to use one, they will injure themselves, very quickly, in general.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby ArchangelShrike » Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:39 am UTC

Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel wrote:Its like this, you find a gun. Any gun. You know the basics of how to use it. Its a high calibre gun. You have no other weapon. You are more likely to use it than leave it where you found it. Now you're walking down the road and you see a zombie up ahead on the road. Its a straight road. It has high fences on each side and you need to get to the end of the road. There is no way past the zombie without fighting it. You have your .50 sniper rifle. Do you A: try to smash the zombie with the butt of the rifle? B: Shoot the zombie in the head with the rifle? C: do nothing and die because the zombie noticed you and is gnawing on your arm because you didn't try to shoot it?


D. Throw the rifle to the side, using the noise to distract the zombie and run past it, assuming a shambling zombie.
E. Climb the fence/wall, and walk along the top/other side of fence.
F. Take off my a piece of clothing, throw it on top of the zombie's head to disrupt sight/hearing, and run past.
G. It sounds like a dirt road, so there should be dirt/rocks to throw at the zombie to disrupt it.
H. Improvise a tool I'm carrying to distract the zombie and get past. Unless I'm stark naked, in which case I probably have to worry about from the elements/bloody feet from running.
I. Something else, etc.

The one thing we have that zombies don't have is intelligence. This is xkcd, we're talking about plans before such an unlikely event would happen, we have plenty of intelligence to spare, we should use it. I've never fired a firearm in my life, and probably won't for a bit longer, but as long as I use my brain I should be able to come up with a solution to getting around it. If you're really trying to screw over the situation that I'd sure as hell try my hardest to keep out of, set it up that a person is running away from the zombie horde to come to a ravine with a solid bridge, big enough for two people to walk across side by side. A singular zombie is at the other end, and you have your .50 cal weapon. To fall off means certain death, there are no places to hide on your side of the bridge. What do you do?

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Torvaun » Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:55 am UTC

Tie a loop with a bowline, tie the other end of my rope to the bridge somewhere near the middle, and dangle until the zombies either suicided trying to get to you or moved on.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Upsilon » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:08 am UTC

Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel wrote:Its like this, you find a gun. Any gun. You know the basics of how to use it. Its a high calibre gun. You have no other weapon. You are more likely to use it than leave it where you found it. Now you're walking down the road and you see a zombie up ahead on the road. Its a straight road. It has high fences on each side and you need to get to the end of the road. There is no way past the zombie without fighting it. You have your .50 sniper rifle. Do you A: try to smash the zombie with the but of the rifle? B: Shoot the zombie in the head with the rifle? C: do nothing and die because the zombie noticed you and is gnawing on your arm because you didn't try to shoot it?

Personally? I'd backtrack to where the fence started and walk around it.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Mo0man » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:38 am UTC

Run around it as it walks at 5 miles an hour? Talk softly and find a big stick? Honestly, I'd use ammunition as sparingly as possible. Maybe if there were four or five
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:50 am UTC

the .22 vs. .50 nicely ignores the fact that .22 would be absolutely useless against zombies.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby SecondTalon » Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:00 am UTC

I disagree. If it can kill a human via a headshot, it can kill a zombie the same way.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Torvaun » Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:02 am UTC

.22LR will penetrate skull. I can't speak for any other .22 loads.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Nifar » Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:04 am UTC

Torvaun wrote:.22LR will penetrate skull. I can't speak for any other .22 loads.

Pretty much the same all around.

Also, you know what would suck? Zombie Xenomorphs. Not sure a zombie could infect an Alien, but I be a Facehugger could impregnate a zombie.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel » Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:05 pm UTC

I disagree. If it can kill a human via a headshot, it can kill a zombie the same way.

And only a head shot. Imagine if the wind makes the .22 hit the zombie in the shoulder. Its not going to do much. But if the .50 hit it in the shoulder, it would do a lot of damage (possibly even taking off/rendering the arm useless)

What's better; a zombie with an obliterated arm or a zombie with a small piece of lead in it?

I'm amazed that no one has even mentioned desert eagles (as far as I can remember) . . . if you shoot a zombie with one of those, its going to get a huge hole in it. (Assuming its a name brand desert eagle and not one of the fake/replica ones that fire 12 rounds (that are smaller) instead of 7 .50 Action Express rounds or some other stupid/fake version)

set it up that a person is running away from the zombie horde to come to a ravine with a solid bridge, big enough for two people to walk across side by side. A singular zombie is at the other end, and you have your .50 cal weapon. To fall off means certain death, there are no places to hide on your side of the bridge. What do you do?

That's a much better situation. You must get across the bridge. There is no other way across without using the bridge. The zombie is near the other end of the bridge, but it will get to you at half way if you try to cross it.

It's the same with a chainsaw or even an axe - if a person is not trained to use one, they will injure themselves, very quickly, in general.

I agree. Although there really isn't a need to agree for the fact that training with something equals better chances of using it correctly.

I bet that I could use my dads metal base-ball bat much better than he ever could because I have been playing with it over the last couple weeks. I have got used to it. Yesterday I went and found my old axe I used for chopping firewood, I picked it up and swing it around a bit. I found it to be lighter than I expected and easier to use than I expected. I chopped and hacked at a rotting, fallen tree (that I had to get to by climbing a very large/steep hill) so I know how easy it is to use and how easy it is to carry around. Seriously, its not as difficult to carry around as people think. (By the way, I live on a farm)

Tomorrow (when there is light), I am going to fill my school bag with all the things in my house that I would need for my own personal survival of the zombie invasion and trek up and down a couple hills and see how tired I am after it. Then I am going to go on a long walk down one of the farm tracks and see how tired I am after that. It will be a great indicator of what it will be like if I actually need to do it.

People, what should I pack? (I will check back tomorrow at around noon, when I wake up (because its 2 in the morning right now))

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby King of Frogs » Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:20 pm UTC

- Lots of tinned food.
- First Aid kit.
- Hunting/camping knife.
- Water canteen/flask.
- Sleeping bag.
- Equipment for lighting a fire.

Those are the basics, what else can people think of?
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